The Sad State Of Politics

[Bentley Bullet]

.....When Bojo is more likely to be ousted by a Christmas party than the Labour Party.

[normal rules]

Wait for it ……………………………….

[drfchound]

It will be like London busses…….

[Axholme Lion]

Wait for it ……………………………….

They're not taking the bait. They're sat over the keyboard grinding their teeth but not typing.

[sha66y]

The sad thing is the opposition are not good enough to get elected and will only fare well because the conservatives are utter lying shite.... and even then they might not unless they start to identify with the electorate....

I support the nihilist party, and crave utter destruction ! Lol

[Axholme Lion]

The sad thing is the opposition are not good enough to get elected and will only fare well because the conservatives are utter lying shite.... and even then they might not unless they start to identify with the electorate....

I support the nihilist party, and crave utter destruction ! Lol

All true. Labour need to forget all this woke, identity politics crap and start thinking about the British 'working' class for a change. Then and only then they might just have a chance.

[tommy toes]

I didn't know the date of the next General Election had been announced.

[wilts rover]

'He's doing his best'

'He only lied in the past'

8 point Labour Opinion Poll lead

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1469330224282284043

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oldest truism in politics.

Opposition's don't win elections. Governments lose them.

Cameron wouldn't have had a chance in 2010 without the GFC.

Labour would have struggled in 97 without Black Wednesday and the Tory sleaze under Major.

Thatcher wouldn't have won in 79 without the Winter of Discontent.

Opposition's have to wait for Governments to implode. Then take advantage by looking competent and honest by comparison.

Whether this is the moment that the Tories disintegrate, we'll have to wait and see. But they are in the sort of trouble that it's not easy to get out of. Once people decide that youre not on their side anymore, you have an uphill battle to fight.   

[River Don]

Of course the Tories could change the leader, that might restore trust.

The problem they have, is they don't have an obvious candidate. Apparently they still think Boris would be more popular than Sunak, even now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sunak has a tough year coming up. Real wages are going to be hammered in 2022. See how popular he is this time next year.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And yeah, they are fishing in a shallow pool among the others.

Gove?
Raab?
Patel?
Truss?

Good luck with any of them.

[drfchound]

Like I said, London busses.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Sunak has a tough year coming up. Real wages are going to be hammered in 2022. See how popular he is this time next year.

2 years ago there was no covid etc. A lot will change before the next election.

[River Don]

Sunak has a tough year coming up. Real wages are going to be hammered in 2022. See how popular he is this time next year.

2 years ago there was no covid etc. A lot will change before the next election.

We do know there are huge energy price rises baked in, that can't be put off beyond April.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sunak has a tough year coming up. Real wages are going to be hammered in 2022. See how popular he is this time next year.

2 years ago there was no covid etc. A lot will change before the next election.

Absolutely. But to back up what RD says, we know there are certain things pretty well baked in.

NI rises
Fuel cost rises
Inflation very likely to be high.

There's not a huge amount to sing and dance about over the next 12 months. Always the chance of a war I guess - that has worked for a highly unpopular Govt before...

[tyke1962]

Even Blair knew black Wednesday and sleaze wasn't enough to topple John Major's government so expecting a Tory government to topple on that narrative is pretty flawed in my opinion .

What ever my own personal feelings about New Labour are concerned the fact is they had an identity and a brand .

The play was building a modern Britain and taking our place at the top table of the most powerful country's in the the world .

Blair had charisma and energy , Brown had the brains .

They also had some heavyweights in the cabinet , Cook , Prescott , Darling , Field , Beckett and Blunkett .

They were on the news more than the Tory government largely thanks to Campbell .

What's clearly passing them by today is the fact they haven't the talent these days , the leader hasn't the charisma , they don't have a vision , a brand or any policies .

There's also the small matter that the New Labour brand is particularly toxic to those whose vote was in the bag for generations .

Other than that everything's fine .

[River Don]

The problem is the Labour vote is split.

Whilst there are those who see the New Labour brand as tainted, there are also plenty who will not vote for radical socialism espoused by the Corbyn wing.

[tyke1962]

The problem is the Labour vote is split.

Whilst there are those who see the New Labour brand as tainted, there are also plenty who will not vote for radical socialism espoused by the Corbyn wing.

It was always split RD and we co-existed for the good of the party .

Those days of tolerance are gone , mainly because the centre and right of the party couldn't take the fact the members voted to elect a leader who wanted radical change in this country .

They conspired at every opportunity to topple him hoping he'd lose a GE .

I myself was willing to give Starmer a go .

Until he broke every leadership election pledge he made and set about purging the left .

There comes a time when you walk away and leave them to it and look for alternatives .

Not particularly another party but social campaigns through trade unions etc etc .

I could take the left not running the show but to be kicked out altogether is entirely another matter .

Some seriously dangerous people in the centre and right of the Labour Party .

Nearly as many as the government .

Presently neither party is fit for government in my opinion .

The bar has never been lower .

[River Don]

At some point the left will have to learn that a moderate Labour government is preferable to a Tory government.

Those in the centre, who might vote Tory, who might vote Liberal, who might vote green, who might vote Labour...

They ain't going to be going for radical options.

New Labour and Tony Blair made bad decisions. They did. But that doesn't mean a centrist Labour government will always be the same.

[Donnywolf]

Thatcher probably was dethroned by "just" the Poll Tax and imho the worst PM [by a country mile - not my words but those of Bercow the ex-Speaker] is still lording it whatever he does - as he goes from lie to lie , stunt to stunt and is still revered.

If they [his hands face space / get B****t done] muppets get brave and do to him what he did to May I am guessing they will be cooked because none of the others in Government would be cut as much slack as Pinocciho has been. They are just not up to the job either.

Dreadful PM - dreadful Cabinet - and to fit in with Hounds bus "theme" it started with a Bus

Come one come all slag me if you want but I can say with 100 per cent certainty I have more integrity , more honesty and more honesty than that barrel of Lard runnin our Country

I wouldnt trust the cnut to run Super6 for 1 Round

[tyke1962]

At some point the left will have to learn that a moderate Labour government is preferable to a Tory government.

Those in the centre, who might vote Tory, who might vote Liberal, who might vote green, who might vote Labour...

They ain't going to be going for radical options.

New Labour and Tony Blair made bad decisions. They did. But that doesn't mean a centrist Labour government will always be the same.

It's ok to say they won't be going for radical options but the country needs radical options .

You could just about stomach it in the 90's under Blair but the country is massively different to what it was then .

We didn't have the amount of foodbanks we have today , young people could still save for a deposit on a house , drug dealing and anti social behaviour wasn't as rife .

The NHS wasn't great but it was way better than today although I'll acknowledge Blair made it very good .

To be not radical just stinks of power just for the sake of it .

May as well not bother in my opinion .

[Donnywolf]

Only UK and Belarus do not have PR in GEs

We need it to cut extremism from wherever it comes. Green Party with 1 single solitary MP from 2019 would have had 12 using PR BUT under PR they would attract more votes as people realised for the first time that their vote was finally as meaningful as anyone elses
Bring it ON

[tyke1962]

The centre of the Party to this day can't fathom how Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party .

This is the whole crux of the matter .

Corbyn became leader because New Labour were not only out of road but fell way short of what they could and should have achieved with 13 years of government behind them .

Far too many people felt they were abandoned and had been taken for granted .

These are serious issues that can't be simply brushed under the carpet .

To this day the centre don't get it , they don't get it because the majority of them have never lived the lives the people whose vote they seek do .

Not everyone granted but the vast majority .

Whilst I don't expect in this day and age the Labour Party to consist of ex Amazon  or Call Centre workers who live in rented accommodation I expect at least some modicum of understanding .

I don't see it what's so ever , I see people from middle class and graduate backgrounds telling me what I should think .

Only one way that's going to change and it isn't from the electorate .

[SydneyRover]

Even Blair knew black Wednesday and sleaze wasn't enough to topple John Major's government so expecting a Tory government to topple on that narrative is pretty flawed in my opinion .

What ever my own personal feelings about New Labour are concerned the fact is they had an identity and a brand .

The play was building a modern Britain and taking our place at the top table of the most powerful country's in the the world .

Blair had charisma and energy , Brown had the brains .

They also had some heavyweights in the cabinet , Cook , Prescott , Darling , Field , Beckett and Blunkett .

They were on the news more than the Tory government largely thanks to Campbell .

What's clearly passing them by today is the fact they haven't the talent these days , the leader hasn't the charisma , they don't have a vision , a brand or any policies .

There's also the small matter that the New Labour brand is particularly toxic to those whose vote was in the bag for generations .

Other than that everything's fine .

May jammed packed full of charisma beats corbyn, the king of charisma.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Corbyn became leader because a couple of hundred thousand people took associate membership for three quid and got a vote in the 2015 leadership election. Those were people who only spoke to people who thought Corbyn was the 2nd Coming. And had little idea what the rest of the country thought of him.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, the Blair Govt that Tyke decries removed more kids from poverty than any Govt in history. It was able to do that because it won elections.

You go and man the barricades Tyke. Take it to the streets. You won't make a scratch on the surface of the problems you rightly identify, while ever a right wing Govt is in charge.

[SydneyRover]

Tyke hasn't voted labour since Harold bloody Wilson.

[wilts rover]

Only UK and Belarus do not have PR in GEs

We need it to cut extremism from wherever it comes. Green Party with 1 single solitary MP from 2019 would have had 12 using PR BUT under PR they would attract more votes as people realised for the first time that their vote was finally as meaningful as anyone elses
Bring it ON

Unfortunately PR actually enhances extermism Wolfie. UK had double the SNP vote in and the BNP had nearly twice as many as the Green Party in 2010. Neither of them had an MP whilst the SNP had 6 and the Greens 1.

I agree PR is a fairer, more representative system. But beware what may happen under it.

[tyke1962]

Tyke hasn't voted labour since Harold bloody Wilson.

It takes all sorts Sydney , my gran was a Tory voter all her life and a royalist .

This despite a Labour government building her one of the finest council houses I've ever seen .

The NHS and a welfare programme .

My grandad worked in the steel industry and was a solid trade union man and socialist .

The penny dropped with my Gran when Thatcher came on the scene and the miners strike .

She flipped to the Liberals 

I've grown up with this shyte Sydney .

My old man got arrested at Wapping in the 80's and read the Morning Star .

I got arrested at the Poll Tax demo in 1990 but wasn't convicted although I probably should have done .

I fought the bloody Tories in the strike , lost everything and I'd have starved to death if I'd had to before give in to that witch .

Trying to be educated by your average Guardian reader isn't a great look Sydney in all honesty .