Should Starmer Resign?

[River Don]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

[drfchound]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

I too have never voted for either of them RD, including the Brexit vote. 
You are right about Starmer being on shaky ground.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool.

No. He didn't. He never once said Johnson should resign BECAUSE there was an investigation going on.

BR.
You're parroting this line from the Mail and Sun that 30 people shared £200 of beer and curry? You want to have a think about that?

I never mentioned £200. You're defending the indefensible here.

From where do you get the line that there were 30 people at that working dinner?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

I can only assume that Hound has blocked BB. Because BB has said over and over again that he doesn't accept that Johnson lied.

[wilts rover]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

I can only assume that Hound has blocked BB. Because BB has said over and over again that he doesn't accept that Johnson lied.

Not quite true. I distinctly remember BB saying that he agreed Johnson had lied in the past (the occassions he was sacked for). He has never admitted/refused to admit he has lied since then (the last sacking).

[Bentley Bullet]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

I can only assume that Hound has blocked BB. Because BB has said over and over again that he doesn't accept that Johnson lied.

Moving swiftly on again aye, Billy?

Pathetic.

[Branton Red]

Bpool.

No. He didn't. He never once said Johnson should resign BECAUSE there was an investigation going on.

BR.
You're parroting this line from the Mail and Sun that 30 people shared £200 of beer and curry? You want to have a think about that?

I never mentioned £200. You're defending the indefensible here.

From where do you get the line that there were 30 people at that working dinner?

I got the beer from the fact Starmer was filmed drinking from a bottle of one late in the evening when he was "working" supposedly, the curry from the leaked internal memo which stated it would be ordered and consumed just before Starmer walked (a working walk?) back to his hotel and the 30 people from a BBC news report - googling even the Guardian admit 15 people were there. (6 was the limit for gatherings at the time). 15 to discuss tomorrow's Plan of Action in 1hr 20 minutes per the memo?!

Where an earth did you get the line it was a "working" dinner. Some people are very gullible.

[River Don]

30 people isn't credible on £200.

It has been reported there were a dozen there plus a couple of policemen.

£200 probably paid for 30 items off the menu but an Indian meal usually contains two or three items.

Also it's not clear if the drinks were ordered from the takeaway or not.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP

Why did they eat together?
How about because they had campaigning to plan for the next day? In which case you combine eating with working. Have you never done that? I've had late evening working meals loads of times where we discuss what the next day if work is going to pan out like, because there's been no time to do it previously.

Why deny someone was there when it was on the memo and clear she was?
Because a young staffer fielded an enquiry about this from The Mail months ago and got his wires crossed.

Why did he need to be in person for an online social event?
He was there FOR the social event. He was there because he was campaigning there the following morning. The social event took place while he was there.

Last April I started a new job.  I had 2 hours in the office first day then didn't see anyone I work with in person for 5 months.  So no, I didn't do like Starmer.

[River Don]

It takes about an hour to eat a meal.

The students who videoed the event haven't said it went on for longer than that.

The claim is the meal was delivered to the kitchen and people picked up what they wanted. That fits with the explanation it was a working meal.

[drfchound]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

I can only assume that Hound has blocked BB. Because BB has said over and over again that he doesn't accept that Johnson lied.

Wrong yet again bst.
Quite a few times lately as well looking at the number of times others have corrected you.

[drfchound]

Boris Johnson has always been a liar.

His old school masters noted it.

He's been sacked for it.

Max Hastings specifically warned this would happen.

It's indefensible but still they defend it.

To be fair RD I can’t recall anyone on here saying Johnson hasn’t lied.
I have seen posters telling us that Starmer hasn’t lied though.
Johnson has been fined.
We have yet to see if Starmer will be fined.

That's fair enough. If Starmer has broken the rules he's got to go.

I think he's already on shaky ground because I don't think he's been entirely truthful already.

I have never voted for either of them.

Not Johnson even though he was the leader of the brexit campaign, which I did vote for.

I can only assume that Hound has blocked BB. Because BB has said over and over again that he doesn't accept that Johnson lied.

Wrong yet again bst.
Quite a few times lately as well looking at the number of times others have corrected you.

Cooee.

[Branton Red]

Billy/River Don

Even Starmer himself has distinctly not claimed it was a "working" dinner www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61362474

"The Labour leader has maintained the visit was a work event, and that the food and drink was consumed in between doing work, so was within the rules."

 "He has also previously insisted he returned to work afterwards."

[River Don]

Sir Keir said that "at various points people went through to the kitchen, got a plate, had something to eat, and got on with their work". He has also previously insisted he returned to work afterwards.

That appears to be consistent with a working meal.

And the students who filmed the event said there were lights on until late. It's not clear when Starmers car left.

So what was going on? Working or partying? On £200 I'd say working.

But we can't be sure where the drinks came from so, it's down to the police to clear things up.

[Bentley Bullet]

Johnson was found guilty by the Met police.
Starmer is under investigation by the Durham police.

Hopefully, it won't be a Justice by Postcode lottery.

[drfchound]

Well someone’s knocking at the door.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

Why did they eat together?
How about because they had campaigning to plan for the next day? In which case you combine eating with working. Have you never done that? I've had late evening working meals loads of times where we discuss what the next day if work is going to pan out like, because there's been no time to do it previously.

Why deny someone was there when it was on the memo and clear she was?
Because a young staffer fielded an enquiry about this from The Mail months ago and got his wires crossed.

Why did he need to be in person for an online social event?
He was there FOR the social event. He was there because he was campaigning there the following morning. The social event took place while he was there.

Last April I started a new job.  I had 2 hours in the office first day then didn't see anyone I work with in person for 5 months.  So no, I didn't do like Starmer.

You weren't the Leader of the Opposition during an election campaign were you?

My question was, have you NEVER had a working dinner at which you have discussed key work issues because there has been no other time during the day when you could all get together? (As was specifically allowed for election work).

I'd say in a normal year, I do that at least 10 times, occasionally 30 times. And my job is nowhere near as all consuming as Starmer's.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Billy/River Don

Even Starmer himself has distinctly not claimed it was a "working" dinner www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61362474

"The Labour leader has maintained the visit was a work event, and that the food and drink was consumed in between doing work, so was within the rules."

 "He has also previously insisted he returned to work afterwards."

BR.

You are quoting a journalist's summary of Starmer's words.

Starmer's ACTUAL words in the very link you posted are:
"at various points people went through to the kitchen, got a plate, had something to eat, and got on with their work."

Don't you think you have confirmation bias going on here?

[wilts rover]

Johnson was found guilty by the Met police.
Starmer is under investigation by the Durham police.

Hopefully, it won't be a Justice by Postcode lottery.

It appears to be a Durham Police political lottery as they said they would not re-investigate Cummings even after he admitted he had lied about his actions.

[wilts rover]

Headlines coming out in tomorrows papers that Johnson intends to scrap the NI Protocol.

According to this bloke that means Johnson has recieved another fine (and the headlines have been pre-planned as a distraction). Guess we will know soon:

https://twitter.com/mi6rogue/status/1523409959916285953

[Branton Red]

BR.

You are quoting a journalist's summary of Starmer's words.

Starmer's ACTUAL words in the very link you posted are:
"at various points people went through to the kitchen, got a plate, had something to eat, and got on with their work."

Don't you think you have confirmation bias going on here?

The irony of being accused of confirmation bias by somebody choosing a quote open to interpretation: -

- went to kitchen, [then] got a plate, [then] had something to eat, and [then] got on with their work".

Whilst blissfully ignoring another direct quote from Starmer further down the same news article page: -

- "I was working in the office. We stopped for something to eat."

Which is clear and umambiguous and ties in with the BBC reporting I quoted on what Starmer had said previously.

They stopped working to eat.

Still want to maintain it was a working dinner?!

[SydneyRover]

partygate photo 15/May/2020 with wife and sprog in attendance, food and wine and not a laptop to be seen is deemed not a party.

[drfchound]

Deflection attempt.

[ravenrover]

I thought you might have picked up on my answer to that in post 381. Ah well!

He didn't mislead/lie to the house because you can be unaware of events or misinterpret them.

I went to Chesterfield a couple of years ago and if anyone asked me if I have broken the law while there I would have said no. Next thing I received a speeding ticket for doing 34/35 MPH in a 30 MPH zone. On further recollection of it, I remembered the area where the incident took place and thought it was a 40 MPH zone.

I subsequently received a £100 fine and didn't fight the case despite not intentionally or knowingly breaking the law.

I'd made an honest mistake.

Ah so he attended parties but didn't believe they were parties so didn't lie when he said there were no parties but if they were no rules were broken
Even by your standards that is prime whataboutery.
The man cannot stop he is a compulsive liar on this and many other instances within the House and knows he can get away with it with this Speaker, you should be ashamed trying to defend this , just like Raab Gove etc etc

ME defendig a liar? Oh the hypocrisy!

Which liar am I supposed to have defended BB?

[Bentley Bullet]

ravenrover, whatever the outcome of the Beergate saga Starmer will have lost his credibility. He said Johnson should resign because he's under police investigation, but has failed to do so himself. He's a hypocrite. He said the 'Beergate' event wasn't planned. It was. He lied. The labour party said Angela Rayner wasn't there. She was. They lied.

You really aren't doing yourself or BST etc any favours by continuing to dig a deeper hole in attempting to defend this.

[SydneyRover]

''Starmer tells Boris Johnson to resign immediately for misleading parliament'

[SydneyRover]

''He [Johnson] told the house no rules were broken in Downing Street during lockdown,” the Labour leader said. “The police have now concluded there was widespread criminality. The ministerial code says that ministers who knowingly mislead the house should resign. Why is he still here?”

[SydneyRover]

''Sir Keir Starmer, the Labour leader, said the prime minister and the chancellor had broken the law and “repeatedly lied to the British public” over the scandal, as he insisted: “They must both resign”.''

[ravenrover]

ravenrover, whatever the outcome of the Beergate saga Starmer will have lost his credibility. He said Johnson should resign because he's under police investigation, but has failed to do so himself. He's a hypocrite. He said the 'Beergate' event wasn't planned. It was. He lied. The labour party said Angela Rayner wasn't there. She was. They lied.

You really aren't doing yourself or BST etc any favours by continuing to dig a deeper hole in attempting to defend this.

What's it got to do with BST?
So the questions regarding The pkan and Angela Raynor were both directed to and answered by Starmer not just soneone from the Labour Party.
But let's get back to my original point you are defending someone by saying he didn't lie to The House by saying there were no parties even though he was at many of them, on what basis can you say he didn't lie?

[Bentley Bullet]

I've already explained how it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the PM could have misconstrued the events as working events, just like Starmer is now doing. It seems that you are going to one extreme to prove the PM is lying and the other extreme to prove that Starmer isn't.

 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/keir-starmer-beergate-durham-hartlepool-curry-angela-rayner-covid-rules-b998681.html