Gas Prices

[wilts rover]

Why, when the government and consumer bodies are talking about looming sky high gas prices for UK customers, has extraction from UK fields doubled - and been sold to Europe?

This bloke has an idea

https://twitter.com/_richardblack/status/1486721893277134849

[Axholme Lion]

Or why not let Russia have their own way in exchange for cheaper gas?

[Filo]

Or why not let Russia have their own way in exchange for cheaper gas?

And what happens after they have marched i to Ukraine?

Poland?

[rich1471]

I don't think people realise how much energy prices are going up ,I currently pay£90 per month my deal ends at the end of February with it rising to £135 a month and in April the energy cap is stopped my bill is prodicted to be around £180 a month ,this will cripple people unless the government step in to help.

[River Don]

Why, when the government and consumer bodies are talking about looming sky high gas prices for UK customers, has extraction from UK fields doubled - and been sold to Europe?

This bloke has an idea

https://twitter.com/_richardblack/status/1486721893277134849

Yep, he's quite right UK gas is sold on the open market at the going rate. It would take a heck of a lot of gas production to shift the European market significantly lower.

[River Don]

I don't think people realise how much energy prices are going up ,I currently pay£90 per month my deal ends at the end of February with it rising to £135 a month and in April the energy cap is stopped my bill is prodicted to be around £180 a month ,this will cripple people unless the government step in to help.

We had a letter from British gas offering to fix our energy bill at nearly double what we're paying now.

I thought I'd leave it until they adjust the cap in April. Fingers crossed the government will do something to help but I'm not expecting much.

[drfchound]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

[River Don]

And we've got petrol following the gas price up now.

And food is going up because of expensive fertiliser and fuel costs.

And high fuel prices will push all commodities up.

That will hit retail.

Wages aren't keeping up with inflation.

All in all. Grim.

[drfchound]

And it’s not just here in the UK is it.

[mugnapper]

When does the £350 million a week Brexit benefit kick in?

[selby]

  Let the energy companies charge what they want, and when they declare massive profits do what they did to the banks and hit them with a big one off tax take and distribute it to the customers.

[rich1471]

Why, when the government and consumer bodies are talking about looming sky high gas prices for UK customers, has extraction from UK fields doubled - and been sold to Europe?

This bloke has an idea

https://twitter.com/_richardblack/status/1486721893277134849

Yep, he's quite right UK gas is sold on the open market at the going rate. It would take a heck of a lot of gas production to shift the European market significantly lower.

They wanted to fix mine at £180 a month ,I knew it was going up but not that much ,people on low incomes or benefits will struggle not time

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

[River Don]

One thing is for sure, if they don't come up with something to mitigate this, these energy prices are going to smash into the just about managing, the low paid and those who are already struggling to make ends meet.

It's not only going to be the unemployed who feel it, it's going to be those on lower incomes too. Even those on a fairly decent wage will feel the pinch.

I think it's unprecedented.

[phil old leake]

The prices are ridiculous

It’s not only fuel. I was in Homebase yesterday and looking at wood. There was some 4x2 which I was buying last year for around a fiver.  Couldn’t believe it £14.75 for the same thing

[Metalmicky]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

[drfchound]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Chuff me MM.
BST will have a dickie fit if the government were to give pensioners increased winter fuel payments.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Chuff me MM.
BST will have a dickie fit if the government were to give pensioners increased winter fuel payments.

Easy to means test it if they choose to.  When it comes to energy and heating giving help to the least well off is absolutely the right thing to do.

Where I disagree with MM's point is on council tax it is to generic.  I'm two bands above my next door neighbour, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm better off than them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Chuff me MM.
BST will have a dickie fit if the government were to give pensioners increased winter fuel payments.

Easy to means test it if they choose to.  When it comes to energy and heating giving help to the least well off is absolutely the right thing to do.

Where I disagree with MM's point is on council tax it is to generic.  I'm two bands above my next door neighbour, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm better off than them.

Hound here is another one who is incapable of having a sensible debate because every word is put through a process in his head of making it fit what he wants the person he disagrees with to be saying.

There are going to be millions of people who need serious support to keep the lights and radiators on in 2022 and the future. That includes pensioners but not only pensioners. Many of the very poorest in society now are working people and any assistance package must help them.

[drfchound]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Chuff me MM.
BST will have a dickie fit if the government were to give pensioners increased winter fuel payments.

Easy to means test it if they choose to.  When it comes to energy and heating giving help to the least well off is absolutely the right thing to do.

Where I disagree with MM's point is on council tax it is to generic.  I'm two bands above my next door neighbour, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm better off than them.

Hound here is another one who is incapable of having a sensible debate because every word is put through a process in his head of making it fit what he wants the person he disagrees with to be saying.

There are going to be millions of people who need serious support to keep the lights and radiators on in 2022 and the future. That includes pensioners but not only pensioners. Many of the very poorest in society now are working people and any assistance package must help them.

BST, can you deny that you have complained about pensioners getting too much from the government and that pensioners should be eternally grateful to the younger generation for paying for their pensions.
The underlying truth though is that because I don’t bow to your beliefs on many things, that you feel the need to discredit anything I and some others (who don’t agree with you) say.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Chuff me MM.
BST will have a dickie fit if the government were to give pensioners increased winter fuel payments.

Easy to means test it if they choose to.  When it comes to energy and heating giving help to the least well off is absolutely the right thing to do.

Where I disagree with MM's point is on council tax it is to generic.  I'm two bands above my next door neighbour, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm better off than them.

Hound here is another one who is incapable of having a sensible debate because every word is put through a process in his head of making it fit what he wants the person he disagrees with to be saying.

There are going to be millions of people who need serious support to keep the lights and radiators on in 2022 and the future. That includes pensioners but not only pensioners. Many of the very poorest in society now are working people and any assistance package must help them.

BST, can you deny that you have complained about pensioners getting too much from the government and that pensioners should be eternally grateful to the younger generation for paying for their pensions.

Well he shouldn't because he is right.  If I was born 40 years ago and had chose the same career path as now I'd be significantly better off in terms of pension, student debt, house prices etc.  It is what it is, but there's no doubt today's pensioners in some (not all) cases don't need additional funding/benefits.  Why should a pensioner get a fuel benefit if they're getting 30-40k dividends, final salary pension etc.  They should not.  A pensioner on state pension without those other aspects fully should.

That's the point of means testing isn't it?

Additional to that pensioners in 30 years time will find it tougher.  Assuming they've paid off their huge mortgages (many won't), they won't have contributed anything like as much in to different styles of pension schemes.  It's a potential problem in the future.

[turnbull for england]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Chuff me MM.
BST will have a dickie fit if the government were to give pensioners increased winter fuel payments.

Easy to means test it if they choose to.  When it comes to energy and heating giving help to the least well off is absolutely the right thing to do.

Where I disagree with MM's point is on council tax it is to generic.  I'm two bands above my next door neighbour, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm better off than them.

Hound here is another one who is incapable of having a sensible debate because every word is put through a process in his head of making it fit what he wants the person he disagrees with to be saying.

There are going to be millions of people who need serious support to keep the lights and radiators on in 2022 and the future. That includes pensioners but not only pensioners. Many of the very poorest in society now are working people and any assistance package must help them.

We are absolutely seeing this now in my work. Tenants ringing in saying houses are cold . Looks like average age stock , reasonable investment in thermal performance , so why now - it's not especially cold for time of year and these  are not new to the house and they didn't complain last year . First checks it seems clear that  it's money related IE heating going on later and off earlier. Of course insulation can be improved  but these homes aren't priority construction. There's a real issue coming and it's in fact already here

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Looks like that's exactly what the chancellor has gone with.  Good news if you're band a-d.  A little annoying if you're not mind

[Metalmicky]

There is talk of changing the VAT rate on fuel to help offset some of the cost.
There will have to be a payback though so something else will have to go up.

And that impact would be tiny. If your bill is £60 net now and goes up to £100 now it's a gross of £63 going to £105.  So not much of a saving, it needs way more than that.  We don't really have a short term answer bar government subsidy.

Perhaps the government could subsidise bills a little and put in place a rebate for when prices drop off again to smooth it a little.

I agree with you on this - cutting the VAT on fuel alone won't do anything.... however, if they postponed green levies for 12 months in addition to cutting VAT it may have a better impact.  I think the government need to consider increasing the Winter Fuel Payments to pensioners and perhaps need to start looking at some form of means test for other households - to protect the vulnerable?

I've always thought that they could link means testing with Council Tax rates - which automatically reflect those who are in a position to pay........ higher value houses = higher wages/savings..... or is that to simplistic...?

Looks like that's exactly what the chancellor has gone with.  Good news if you're band a-d.  A little annoying if you're not mind

Certainly does look that way..... it is a bit simplistic, but it will help 80% of people - and mainly the demographic that are going to be affected most.

[rich1471]

How will £150 help when most bills will go up by £800-£1000 and pre payment customers face an even bigger rise in bills of around £1200 per year, this is when shell energy just announced profits of 4.7 billion pound let that figure sink in then what the government announced today is not so good for the working man out their

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Yep, bit like when the housing crisis hit. I had a house repossessed in 2000 off York Road which i bought for 33 grand. 5 years later it was sold for just under 100k yet wages hadn't tripled in 5 years. This creating overnight a situation where affordable homes were a thing of the past.

The consumer will always be worse off.

[Filo]

Energy Companies should be re nationalised simple as that

[MachoMadness]

I see France is capping energy bills and forcing EDF to take the hit. Presumably otherwise the French workers would be dusting off the guillotines again. We've got far too many servile forelock-tuggers for that, shame.

[albie]

Energy Companies should be re nationalised simple as that

Correct Filo,

There is no chance of controlling energy bills within reason when companies are syphoning off profit as shareholder dividends. Energy is a necessary utility, and as such should be in public ownership.

It is also important to consider climate change.
How do any system changes impact our ability to decarbonise, and move to a more efficient use of energy across the economy.

The green premium is aimed at making this change, and without it the transition will be slower.
It is in everyone's interest to move into the new energy economy rapidly, particularly those in fuel poverty.

With increasing numbers in fuel poverty, it is important to avoid loading extra costs on to regressive taxation like Council Tax. Targeted help for the vulnerable is the most appropriate response.

It always surprises me when you see North Sea explorations flaring off gas as a safety measure.
If they can recover oil and transfer it to land, then surely piping the gas on-shore cannot be that difficult.

[colfromdonny]

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