Gas Prices

[rich1471]

Ok cheers

[DonnyOsmond]

The government will be wondering why birth rates are dropping so much, well they will be when we're not on 80K like yourselves and getting 2.7% pay rises. It doesn't help having a government that let our energy bills increase by 54% and then increase again in a few more month. No house can afford to live on one wage nowadays while the other person's on maternity.

[Filo]

I keep saying it and offer no excuses, it is time to nationalise our utilities, profit that Shareholders of these companies take could be used to keep our populations bills down instead of ripping us off

[drfchound]

Agreed Filo.
I also said a while back that I could see the gas and electricity companies being nationalised.

[idler]

The utility companies should never have been denationalised.
Even Ted Heath said that it was like flogging the family silver.
Maybe they could have been run better but at least they were in the hands of the government and could be controlled in this country rather than a foreign boardroom.
Successive governments have let them get away with murder to the cost of the customer.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Another effect of Austerity.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1500765107051237378

[River Don]

Brent crude went close to $135 a barrel this morning!

It's hovering just under 130 now.

This is going to have a serious impact on the economy, inflation is really going to rip.

[normal rules]

the shell garage on the A17 at East Heckington yesterday had unleaded at 169.9 per litre.
That’s £7.70 per gallon.

There are reports of unleaded as high as £2.20 in the uk .

[turnbull for england]

I'm a plumber by trade starting apprenticeship in 1989. I can distinctly remember one of the lecturers repeatedly saying we should be concentrating on insulation as gas and electricity prices were artificially low and by the time we were his age it would be unaffordable. We had him as a crank but maybe not.  Mind you could get a pint for well under a quid and he never mentioned a four/five pound pint

[ravenrover]

Drove padt our local Esso petrol station this morning at 11.15, price of diesel was £1.59 came back 1 hour later price is now £1.65. How? No new delivery  is it just down to profiteering?

[albie]

British Gas have increased profits by 44% in the last reporting year.

At the same time as passing on the increase in wholesale prices to customers, without regard to fuel poverty and the ability to pay.

Meanwhile, the opposition (cough) Labour Party are defending the existing system;
https://labourlist.org/2022/01/reeves-big-swathe-of-nationalisation-would-not-be-good-value-for-money/

So how do they expect this situation to be resolved?
Windfall tax this year, then another next year, and again the year after that?

Deal with the actual problem, not the symptoms, if you want to be effective.
Public core services like energy need to be in direct control of public authorities, and not seen as a cash cow by private companies for shareholders.

[Filo]

British Gas have increased profits by 44% in the last reporting year.

At the same time as passing on the increase in wholesale prices to customers, without regard to fuel poverty and the ability to pay.

Meanwhile, the opposition (cough) Labour Party are defending the existing system;
https://labourlist.org/2022/01/reeves-big-swathe-of-nationalisation-would-not-be-good-value-for-money/

So how do they expect this situation to be resolved?
Windfall tax this year, then another next year, and again the year after that?

Deal with the actual problem, not the symptoms, if you want to be effective.
Public core services like energy need to be in direct control of public authorities, and not seen as a cash cow by private companies for shareholders.

I’ve been saying that before the energy rises, but there are some people who still believe they should be in private hands, the situation today is a direct legacy of Thatchers policies

[Ldr]

True Filo, very short sighted at the time

[glosterred]

British Gas profits up 44% to £118 million. BGE has approximately 7,250,000 customers. Which equates to approximately £16 per customer profit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

Labour has for some time been proposing a large windfall tax on the energy companies. I'd prefer the companies to be nationalised, but as a first order issue, I'm far less concerned about ownership than I am about ensuring the companies don't pocket massive profits.

[albie]

BST,

They have indeed, which shows that Labour have no understanding of how the energy sector works in the economy.

You are wrong if you think a WT will change the priorities of the sector. There is no evidence that a WT has ever delivered  such a change, and the public interest is not a primary focus of the industry.

A WT applied across the whole sector makes little sense, because it does not guide the sector on pricing policy for different energy consumers.

For example, you need to have a different approach to low income families for whom energy is a high percentage of their income, to those who may be high consumers but also high income.

The existing system discriminates against low income customers by use of high standing charges irrespective of amounts of energy used. This is highly regressive, and for Labour to leave this unchanged is deplorable.

Industrial consumers need to have an altogether different pricing model, which directs them to lower and non carbon energy sources.

The energy economy needs fundamental reform to address immediate and future challenges.
Ignorant policies like telling people a WT will suffice is a big part of the problem...it is not a solution to the inability of market mechanisms to deliver a change to the system.

[Metalmicky]

I saw this mentioned on another site and thought I would share - it may help someone........... even if it is a little bit underhand...

When submitting a reading at the end of March, artificially inflate it so that you get loads of extra units at the pre cap rise price...

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I keep saying it and offer no excuses, it is time to nationalise our utilities, profit that Shareholders of these companies take could be used to keep our populations bills down instead of ripping us off

How much do you think that would raise?

Here's the figures.....

Total profit of energy companies last year was £800m.  Sounds like a lot right?  So now let's split that accross the 54m adults in the country.  That's just under £15 per adult.  That's assuming you don't split the profit based on usage and give nothing to businesses (which typically use much more than consumers).

I'm not sure based on the simplicity of the above we would see a significant amount of difference....

The current average profit margin for the supply element of energy suppliers is a loss of -1.5%.

[Metalmicky]

How much do you think that would raise?

Here's the figures.....

Total profit of energy companies last year was £800m.  Sounds like a lot right?  So now let's split that accross the 54m adults in the country.  That's just under £15 per adult.  That's assuming you don't split the profit based on usage and give nothing to businesses (which typically use much more than consumers).

I'm not sure based on the simplicity of the above we would see a significant amount of difference....

The current average profit margin for the supply element of energy suppliers is a loss of -1.5%.

This article differs widely from your £800m figure.....  nearly double actually..... Although I am not saying you are wrong.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/energy-bills-eon-british-gas-sse-scottish-power-b2013421.html

[albie]

Pud,

You need to look at the energy economy as a whole, not just the energy suppliers to the public.
The energy production economy, including the infrastructure provision via the National Grid, is a different beast.

Investment in new off shore wind for example, is not determined by the consumer supply sector.
They are just brokers, buying on international markets, then selling to the public at a margin.

It is also not about "how much it would raise", it is about a funded roadmap for the industry to self sufficiency and non carbon capacity.

Bozo is talking up a new energy policy in the near future, but there is little sign that government understands the need for fundamental reform.

[BobG]

I worked for a while in the HQ of NPower. I kid you not, a more disorganised, unthinking and incompetant shower of shite you will never see.

Remember when they couldn't even send bills out? That was caused by a groupthink decision that was so entrenched that even when the world started caving in, they continued with the 'plan'. That gave IBM, the clowns who f**ked up the spadework, over 100 million in revenue, on a cost plus basis (!!), and eventually cost the Chief Exec his job. If I'd been the boss IBM would have been marched out of the door at gunpoint. In the meantime tens of thousands ended up, months and months and months later with bills they could neither trust nor pay.

The benefits of Thatcherite dogma eh?

BobG

[Metalmicky]

Pud,

You need to look at the energy economy as a whole, not just the energy suppliers to the public.
The energy production economy, including the infrastructure provision via the National Grid, is a different beast.

Investment in new off shore wind for example, is not determined by the consumer supply sector.
They are just brokers, buying on international markets, then selling to the public at a margin.

It is also not about "how much it would raise", it is about a funded roadmap for the industry to self sufficiency and non carbon capacity.

Bozo is talking up a new energy policy in the near future, but there is little sign that government understands the need for fundamental reform.

Said it a few times previously..... but I can't for the life of me understand why every new build isn't required to have at least solar panels on, or even a heat source pump fitted.  We could even go further and make all new large estates have their own wind turbine that could create the energy for that estate.  An onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5 MW could make up to 6 million kWh a year – which would be enough to supply 1200 - 1500 households.

[normal rules]

Pud,

You need to look at the energy economy as a whole, not just the energy suppliers to the public.
The energy production economy, including the infrastructure provision via the National Grid, is a different beast.

Investment in new off shore wind for example, is not determined by the consumer supply sector.
They are just brokers, buying on international markets, then selling to the public at a margin.

It is also not about "how much it would raise", it is about a funded roadmap for the industry to self sufficiency and non carbon capacity.

Bozo is talking up a new energy policy in the near future, but there is little sign that government understands the need for fundamental reform.

Said it a few times previously..... but I can't for the life of me understand why every new build isn't required to have at least solar panels on, or even a heat source pump fitted.  We could even go further and make all new large estates have their own wind turbine that could create the energy for that estate.  An onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5 MW could make up to 6 million kWh a year – which would be enough to supply 1200 - 1500 households.

I’ve been banging on about this for years.
Rainwater catchment also is a big area of waste. New homes should have large underground reservoirs to store rain water with an overflow into mains when needed. Toilet flushing alone would save billions of gallons of water across the uk .
And it would help alleviate flooding concerns from excess downpours.

[River Don]

Pud,

You need to look at the energy economy as a whole, not just the energy suppliers to the public.
The energy production economy, including the infrastructure provision via the National Grid, is a different beast.

Investment in new off shore wind for example, is not determined by the consumer supply sector.
They are just brokers, buying on international markets, then selling to the public at a margin.

It is also not about "how much it would raise", it is about a funded roadmap for the industry to self sufficiency and non carbon capacity.

Bozo is talking up a new energy policy in the near future, but there is little sign that government understands the need for fundamental reform.

Said it a few times previously..... but I can't for the life of me understand why every new build isn't required to have at least solar panels on, or even a heat source pump fitted.  We could even go further and make all new large estates have their own wind turbine that could create the energy for that estate.  An onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5 MW could make up to 6 million kWh a year – which would be enough to supply 1200 - 1500 households.

I’ve been banging on about this for years.
Rainwater catchment also is a big area of waste. New homes should have large underground reservoirs to store rain water with an overflow into mains when needed. Toilet flushing alone would save billions of gallons of water across the uk .
And it would help alleviate flooding concerns from excess downpours.

It's simply that the big house builders are a powerful lobby that has leant on the government to prevent these kinds of reforms.

[albie]

EU have produced a plan to get off Russian energy, short term and longer term summary here;
https://twitter.com/janrosenow/status/1501222172588662791/photo/1

The hydrogen element will need to be "green hydrogen", from renewable sources, not "blue hydrogen" from gas.

The UK will need something similar, but with greater energy efficiency via insulation.
Bated breathe!

[SydneyRover]

EU have produced a plan to get off Russian energy, short term and longer term summary here;
https://twitter.com/janrosenow/status/1501222172588662791/photo/1

The hydrogen element will need to be "green hydrogen", from renewable sources, not "blue hydrogen" from gas.

The UK will need something similar, but with greater energy efficiency via insulation.
Bated breathe!

Yes green hydrogen would be a good power storage system to replenish and build when there is an excess of renewable energy.

[albie]

Interesting thread from the IFS showing how the increase in energy costs fall more heavily on low income households:
https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1501860379550535680

Without a much greater intervention from Sunak, next winter is going to be a killer for the least well off.

[normal rules]

Local Asda seems to be maintaining 1.55 for unleaded.

[River Don]

Local Asda seems to be maintaining 1.55 for unleaded.

I topped up at Sainsbury on the York ringroad for 1.55 yesterday. For diesel!

[rich1471]

Asda on Monday was 154 for diesel next to the dome