Radio Sheffield caller

[swain_drfc]

Nailed it today on one of the calls after the game.

Blunt and Bramall are just not football people. They don’t care about football and that is why Baldwin is there to deal with the football matters. However what comes with this is that they build the club Doncaster business model so that the club can be self sufficient.

If you are standing still in football then you are only going one way and that is backwards. Hence why this has now finally caught up with us and we will find ourselves struggling in League two next season.

Yes there may not be a que of people wanting to buy the club but unfortunately until that happens we will just have to accept that we are  stuck with owners who have no intention in moving us forwards and we are sleepwalking not only into league two but into non league.

It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

[5minstogo]

I can't accept that they "don't care". They are successful businessmen and this will be hurting them. What I think they need is to be more accepting of guidance from proper football people. Maybe they've been too stubborn to ask for help?

[sedwardsdrfc]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

[swain_drfc]

I can't accept that they "don't care". They are successful businessmen and this will be hurting them. What I think they need is to be more accepting of guidance from proper football people. Maybe they've been too stubborn to ask for help?

They are successful businessmen, the business model is working. The football side is not and they won’t give two hoots.

[GazLaz]

Think that was the caller that said that Terry doesn’t go to games, he does.

We are in a terrible mess, that undeniable but we were within a whisker of a playoff final not too long ago under the same ownership that “didn’t like football”.

Exceptionally poor decisions have been made for us to end up at this point, they weren’t made with ill-intentions though I’m sure. 

They have brought sustainability economically but they haven’t brought a sustainable structure and decision making process to the football department.

[Chris Black come back]

What’s most damning really is that we have this huge squad yet there is not one saleable asset, either due to total lack of ability or for some of the more capable players, are either at or close to the end of their deals. We’re paying money out for abject performances and zero ability to redeem any of this huge expenditure.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Nailed it today on one of the calls after the game.

Blunt and Bramall are just not football people. They don’t care about football and that is why Baldwin is there to deal with the football matters. However what comes with this is that they build the club Doncaster business model so that the club can be self sufficient.

If you are standing still in football then you are only going one way and that is backwards. Hence why this has now finally caught up with us and we will find ourselves struggling in League two next season.

Yes there may not be a que of people wanting to buy the club but unfortunately until that happens we will just have to accept that we are  stuck with owners who have no intention in moving us forwards and we are sleepwalking not only into league two but into non league.

It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

You obviously don't read this forum very often if you actually believe the first part of your second paragraph.

[silent majority]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Surrey Rover]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ok, so what are your thoughts on the advice they have been offered over the last twelve months?

[Goole Rover]

To be honest and very basic I would just love the major shareholder’s to honestly let us know what their ambitions are. They really do have a duty to do this.

[silent majority]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ok, so what are your thoughts on the advice they have been offered over the last twelve months?

My thoughts?

I don't know the specific advice they received, I just know that they have conversations with some very experienced and highly qualified individuals and organisations.

Surely that's common sense though? If you were making some very key decisions on the future of a business you would pay a consultant to offer their opinion. It's no different when running a football club.

I'm not suggesting that things have gone to plan, quite the opposite, I'm just pointing out that the club do have considerable football input. That might not be a popular fact right now, but it is the case.

[silent majority]

To be honest and very basic I would just love the major shareholder’s to honestly let us know what their ambitions are. They really do have a duty to do this.

Surely they've done this on numerous occasions??

[redarmi66]

I can't accept that they "don't care". They are successful businessmen and this will be hurting them. What I think they need is to be more accepting of guidance from proper football people. Maybe they've been too stubborn to ask for help?

They are successful businessmen, the business model is working. The football side is not and they won’t give two hoots.

The business model is failing. It all starts on the pitch. Without success or at least a product worthy of attracting and retaining the fanbase then it will all start to unravel. This is what we are seeing now. Im not having a go at the board as they have supported the club well over the years. However right now we are clearly in decline on the pitch and it follows that support and associated finance will also decline.

[silent majority]

I can't accept that they "don't care". They are successful businessmen and this will be hurting them. What I think they need is to be more accepting of guidance from proper football people. Maybe they've been too stubborn to ask for help?

They are successful businessmen, the business model is working. The football side is not and they won’t give two hoots.

The business model is failing. It all starts on the pitch. Without success or at least a product worthy of attracting and retaining the fanbase then it will all start to unravel. This is what we are seeing now. Im not having a go at the board as they have supported the club well over the years. However right now we are clearly in decline on the pitch and it follows that support and associated finance will also decline.

Not necessarily, the business model, and therefore the revenue that comes into the club stacks up really well.

[Donnybax]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

there can’t be many people from a 3rd party who recommended we appoint G Mac. His only coaching experience has been with us.

[silent majority]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

there can’t be many people from a 3rd party who recommended we appoint G Mac. His only coaching experience has been with us.

That’s not the point of my post though.

[graingrover]

Martin I think there is too much third party advice. in fact .What we are lacking is authoritative voice from a leader who knows what he wants .I hea4vtslk of Director of Sport , mentors .Listen to the fan base and understand we are admirative of the business model and community strategies but the need for a football manager like McCann or Fergie  is screaming at us all.
The business model is not failing but is being used to tell us the Board has a sound practice but NOT insofar as the football side is concerned .

[Chris Black come back]

You can’t be lucky all the time. The board made right calls with McCann and even Moore, but Butler, Wellens and McSheffrey have not be right. I presume the latter shift has been driven by having three previous managers walk out on us, and trying to promote loyalty from within and in the case of Wellens, without.

[NickDRFC]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Given that the board “not being football men” is something that has been raised over and over again on here, it surprises me that now is the first time this has been mentioned.

They should be asking whoever suggested McSheffrey should be appointed for their money back.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Yeah I’m sorry but whoever they’ve been asking for advice should have his number blocked.

I’m not a fan of someone one we it’s no stake in the clubs future giving this kind of advice. Like the whole Carsley mentor thing. Doesn’t hurt them when we are bottom of the league.

[DRNaith]

Based on gates, supporters, catchment area due to other clubs, demographic breakdown of who are originally from Doncaster and who have moved to the area for work and things like that, where should Doncaster Rovers sit in the football league?

Also, looking at the last ten years, as an average, we have sat in league one, with the odd season in league two and the championship.

Given that football does not follow the pattern of "the more you spend, the greater your success" (otherwise cup competition would be pointless, as would leagues really), I would suggest that we're doing as well as we could reasonably expect. A league one budget will sometimes get you promotion and other times it just won't work out and you will be relegated.

When things click, a gem of a player uncovered or the team clicking for example, you enjoy the ride, when things go badly, you can only expect investment to recover the situation to go so far, before you risk throwing away good money for little chance of success.

Many "good" football club owners have been forced to sell up due to chasing recovery through over investment, but with the result of still being relegated only with much larger debts and regrets.

If, as is probable, we are relegated at the end of this season, yes, it will hurt, but we will still have a healthy club base from which to start the season. No Anton Johnson knocking on the door, no Belize hedge fund and no one locking us out of the ground.

Personally I feel this is just a minor trough in our journey. From experience, we seem to have fun creating peaks after these troughs.

[Padge_DRFC]

Crikey the past 2 years have we sought advice from third parties that hate us?

[sedwardsdrfc]

Crikey the past 2 years have we sought advice from third parties that hate us?

Yeah think we should stop asking Scunthorpe what they think of our interviewees!

Are these 3rd parties actually sitting in on the interviews? How formal is?

[steve@dcfd]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Well whoever they are getting advice from they have got it wrong time after time. The board must realise they are failing when it comes to football decisions especially in the last 12 months. But they’ve not got it right from when Grant MCCann left. You will say I’m wrong but it’s not hindsight it was said as soon as Butler was appointed and when decisions were made in the summer.

[roversdude]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Well whoever they are getting advice from they have got it wrong time after time. The board must realise they are failing when it comes to football decisions especially in the last 12 months. But they’ve not got it right from when Grant MCCann left. You will say I’m wrong but it’s not hindsight it was said as soon as Butler was appointed and when decisions were made in the summer.

So was the DM appointment wrong ?? Yeah with hindsight but I’m sure they couldn’t foresee him being such a Judas

[steve@dcfd]

Club needs someone to make football decisions who knows what they are doing. That doesn’t mean Baldwin or Bramhall out by any stretch imo.

Just like we wouldn’t want GM choosing a marketing manager why should businesses minded people decide who is going to be manager? It’s not something they are going to have knowledge of having never been a player or coach. Can see why in interviews good talkers get the job. Can they really question methods or experience of former pros

There’s a belief on this forum that football decisions, such as the appointment of managers, is made without seeking expert football advice from 3rd party personnel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Well whoever they are getting advice from they have got it wrong time after time. The board must realise they are failing when it comes to football decisions especially in the last 12 months. But they’ve not got it right from when Grant MCCann left. You will say I’m wrong but it’s not hindsight it was said as soon as Butler was appointed and when decisions were made in the summer.

So was the DM appointment wrong ?? Yeah with hindsight but I’m sure they couldn’t foresee him being such a Judas

No DM wasn’t a bad appointment and we have heard one side why he left. My opinion is DF MCC a bad DM left because we could not match their ambition at the club. Off the field we may have a good business model. But to move forward we had to rely on good players brought in by DF and good loans brought in McCann and DM while he was here. When good players left to continue with their ambition we replaced them with dross. This season    I believe that good loans were to costly after Covid so we brought in what we could afford. Will it change next season I have no confidence that this board with advice or not know what it requires to put together a managerial side and players to get us back up.
We were close in December 2020 but as soon as Whiteman left and we lost Sims injured we couldn’t not get in players as good as them. So DM had to bring in players that were not as good no wonder he left. Just like MC Cann did when we could not improve the squad.

[roversdude]

Well we certainly could not match instantly jumping up a league as both GM and DM did going to much bigger clubs than us. Agree with the fact we have not replaced leaving players with adequate replacements, however we were wobbling before Whiteman left

[Lincoln Rover]

I agree with SM.
Yes it’s obviously been terrible,  results wise this season, however to me we have to get both halves ( football & finances ) balanced.
Off the pitch the club is doing very well, and I’m firmly of the opinion that other clubs aren’t being as open with their fan base about their own clubs finances.
Again I fully accept that the results/ performances in the main have been dire & I go home & away most weeks. To those of us old enough to remember, we’ve seen much darker days.
Our club is open, honest, listens to fans & trust me they ( Gavin & Shaun) are are hurting with each poor result. It may not be the news that others want/ believe but I’m just saying it as I see it as a proud member of the supporters board.
Now is the time to stick together. RTID.

[Colin C No.3]

I want Gary McSheffrey to succeed as indeed I wanted Richie Wellens to but imo one failed & the other is failing, abjectly.

We had an additional 8 players join the group in January. EIGHT players brought in by GM & we’re no further forward than we were when the team took to the field (in that sh**e kit) in August.

We’ve been served up the most turgid football I’ve seen since the late nineties.

As graingrover states, we are screaming out for a Darren Ferguson type manager who knows how he wants his teams to play & gets the players in to play in his/her style.

I am at a loss to describe ‘the style’ of football GM is currently attempting to develop. My fear is he doesn’t know either.

We needed at least 4 points from our last 3 games against what turned out to be (as their form indicated) 3 really poor sides. We ended up with 1 so just how bad are we?

Relegation has been a forgone conclusion since we capitulated against Morecombe.

There are players purporting to be footballers representing our club week in week out that I would not wish to see in a Rovers shirt ever again & I’m not talking about 3 or 4 players, I’m talking 7 or 8.

I believe Copps has some input into the interviews of prospective Rovers managers since he hung up his boots. Copps always wore his heart on his sleeve as a player, I fear with Richie & Gary he may have allowed his heart to rule his head when asked for his opinion.

Someone needs to grasp the nettle & start looking for that Fergie type manager now.

[Canadian Rover]

I belived Gmc maybe had a style and method in theory almost similar to that of SOD the difference being SOD stood by his. GMC hasn't, not one bit.

GMc said the running levels were going to increase (one of the infamous non negotiables) and we were going to improve winning the ball in the air (aka: first contacts). Fitness levels were going to be improved - as part time Greeny left us to be replaced with a full time fitness coach.

We have no dominant player to win a ball in the air (Anderson aside) younger/Olowu are getting better in this department but are young players still. We have NO forward capable of holding the ball up and brining others into play - even with injured players like Fej and Taylor coming back we won't- this isn't their strength.

So we had a game plan and a long term vision by Gmc (that hasn't been disclosed) non negotiables that appear to be negotiable indeed. Rowe/Smith/Olowu as exceptions name a Rovers player that runs themselves into the ground for the club? We have lazy players, a lazy culture and a manager that seems to accept that. No mentions of % of ariel duels won, KM completed of running, No information on number of sprints. We appeared to appoint an analytical manager with no interest in analysing stats and performance.

We had a set up and personnel in mind...but then appeared not to sign them (JJOT as an example) our recruitment seems piss poor again waiting weeks into the window before acting (we lost points whilst waiting).

My fear is now we are repeating mistakes of the past by allowing a manager to have a custom built backroom staff that suits him only and will be divided if he's replaced in the future.

This season we've replaced the manager, pretty much sacked a player/coach in Butler, replaced the fitness coach (twice?) Set piece coach has come in and then left, goalkeeping coach been let go only to be replaced internally again...we are looking to bring in a physio/medical appointment that hasn't materialised and what the hell happened to our yoga instructor (yes you read that right).

And don't get me started on the whole official appointment of Lee Carsley...who's just a mate that Gmc can call. Behind the scenes we've been an absolute shambles.

We keep talking about how well run we are commercially - yet we closed the club shop mid week, have a website that for a large part of the season showed Liam Ravenhill as 110 years old, still have no picture of Dan Gardener on the squad site. And take a look and see how many players are :sponsored.

If standards are low on the pitch they are equally as low behind the scenes. And let's not even go there about the food, stewarding and quality/value of customer appreciation.

Time for the board to reflect and review. I believe they have the best for club doncaster in mind and that's inclusive of the Rovers...but standards need to be improved everywhere at the club and that starts from the very top.

Wellens was right about standards and expectations unfortunately he wasn't the right man to change the first team...but look at what he's said about the club since his departure.

Don't believe the truth.