Revolution

[Plumbster]

What has amazed me about some of the recent recruits and loanees  is the lack of basic competence and/or physicality to be competitive, never mind the skills required to deliver the possession blueprint-in some cases I cant believe that we saw them play before we signed them

[drfchound]

…….and yet we are told that McSheff had the final say about whether we signed them or not.

[Padge_DRFC]

I'd be interested to see Jordi Hiwulas stats prior to this season they used. I imagine everything ticked boxes, most of us thought great signing. Turned out awful.

[danumdon]

What has amazed me about some of the recent recruits and loanees  is the lack of basic competence and/or physicality to be competitive, never mind the skills required to deliver the possession blueprint-in some cases I cant believe that we saw them play before we signed them

I must admit, watching this side throughout the season has had me thinking the same thing.

I can't ever remember a Rovers side(outside of the 97/98 debacle)that i thought was as slow witted and "not on it" as this current side, and i include the 8 players brought in in Jan. the fact we brought in players who were just not ready to play football to me seems the opposite to everything you are trying to achieve. The fitness and conditioning work just looked like it had never taken place, you can excuse some injuries and lack of fitness in some case but the whole bloody squad looked way down on acceptable levels when compared with our opponents.

We have looked heavy legged and one paced all season, the amount of times i noticed the side blowing out of its rear orifice after 65 mins was too much too often. the amount of times players came back too early and relapsed was chronic.We just never seemed to get on top of this and get going.

I'm hoping that this angle along with some of the others mentioned get looked into very seriously because regardless of any analytics you want to use to assist, if the team are not fit then its all for nothing.

[Alan Southstand]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

The rest are The manager, Copps and CEO?

This needs scrapping for starters, if this season is anything to go by. I question whether Younger knows anything about talent; as far as Copps role, I would assume he looks into their mindset (based on what we’ve got, I’d question whether he was actually doing that!); the manager’s performance in approving several of his January incomings does not bode well, IF the Board do give him the summer. The CEO can only be making sure the wages fit what budget is available.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Now, who (within that quartet) are looking at the strategy of the Club such that the new lads will indeed put us in a good place going forward? Because there’s been very little strategising as far as I can make out. The new ‘system’ of picking players by committee has proven to be part of the shambles that we find ourselves in.

Back to Gazlaz’s revolution - far more interesting.

[normal rules]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

Just hold that thought for another week or so.

[silent majority]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

The rest are The manager, Copps and CEO?

This needs scrapping for starters, if this season is anything to go by. I question whether Younger knows anything about talent; as far as Copps role, I would assume he looks into their mindset (based on what we’ve got, I’d question whether he was actually doing that!); the manager’s performance in approving several of his January incomings does not bode well, IF the Board do give him the summer. The CEO can only be making sure the wages fit what budget is available.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Now, who (within that quartet) are looking at the strategy of the Club such that the new lads will indeed put us in a good place going forward? Because there’s been very little strategising as far as I can make out. The new ‘system’ of picking players by committee has proven to be part of the shambles that we find ourselves in.

Back to Gazlaz’s revolution - far more interesting.

No, the Chairman chairs that committee and signs everything off!!

[Canadian Rover]

Who negotiates the deals and "gets them over the line?" Or who has the say on delaying aka Grigg/OBrien mix ups?

[Alan Southstand]

Thanks for the correction, I knew one of the 3 must be involved and I certainly didn’t think it would be Mr Bramall.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SCWK

Here's a really simple example of how data is used (and has been used for decades) in cricket.

Assume you have two bowlers. One with an average strike rate of one wicket every 20 balls and 20 runs per wicket. The other with a strike rate of 40 and an average of 40 runs per wicket.

You're always going to choose the first one over the second one, right?

But what if the first one is a seam bowler and the second is an out and out pace bowler. And they usually play on soggy, grassy wickets that aid seamers and kill fast bowlers.

Who do you pick if you're playing on a grassless, bone hard wicket?

To answer that, you want to dig into the data and see what their records are like on those wickets.

Cricketers and selectors have known for decades that having or not having that data is absolutely crucial.

And that's just an almost trivially simple example. It's proven beyond argument that it's possible to optimise your squad blend, playing style and tactics by understanding the detail of where the strengths and weaknesses of players are. You don't play a hard pressing game if your players have fitness stats 5% worse than average. You don't make that sort of decision on gut instinct. You do it by reference to cold figures. 

[DonnyOsmond]

SCWK mentions assists, that can be a very misleading stat to use. If one team has a brilliant finisher then players behind him will get more assists then a team with a really poor finisher up front but a more creative player behind him. An example of that is Raphina has 3 assists this season, Gabriel Jesus has 7 assists, that doesn't mean Jesus is better at creating chances than Raphina, more that Jesus has better players round him to finish those chances... And that's why people created xA (Expected Assists), which measures the quality of chances created. xA puts Raphina around 7 and Jesus around 4ish... So if I was looking at either of them to sign (different kind of players, I know), then I wouldn't go on assists.


Another example of when to use data is when you create a lot of chances in certain areas but are poor at finishing them, say if we get the ball a lot around the right of the 12yd box but never score then we should use tracking data to generate a list of the best finishers in that area, that's what Norwich did when they signed Pukki and he's been quality for them.

[Sammy Chung was King]

I’m not saying don’t use them, but don’t blindly follow them. There doesn’t seem to have been much digging into player personalities etc.
It seems like they’ve flagged players up and just signed them. Look at the mentality of some of our signings.

They haven’t handled the pressure of relegation. Mental strength in dealing with pressure at crucial times can be the difference. Yes narrow them down with stats but don’t just use figures and graphs to decide who’s worth signing.

[Canadian Rover]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

The rest are The manager, Copps and CEO?

This needs scrapping for starters, if this season is anything to go by. I question whether Younger knows anything about talent; as far as Copps role, I would assume he looks into their mindset (based on what we’ve got, I’d question whether he was actually doing that!); the manager’s performance in approving several of his January incomings does not bode well, IF the Board do give him the summer. The CEO can only be making sure the wages fit what budget is available.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Now, who (within that quartet) are looking at the strategy of the Club such that the new lads will indeed put us in a good place going forward? Because there’s been very little strategising as far as I can make out. The new ‘system’ of picking players by committee has proven to be part of the shambles that we find ourselves in.

Back to Gazlaz’s revolution - far more interesting.

No, the Chairman chairs that committee and signs everything off!!

SM -
Who negotiates the deals and "gets them over the line?" Or who has the say on delaying aka Grigg/OBrien mix ups?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

[Bentley Bullet]

Reacting to data can cost money if it shows a problem with the components, and cheap replacements will unlikely solve the issue.

[steve@dcfd]

As BB says if the data is good on players then they may cost money to get them in. If the talent identification manager picks out players using data then looking at the cost to bring them in may be to much. Whatever system we have used the level of player whether permanent or loan as fallen. This must be down to cost we can only bring in players that fit our criteria and money we pay. We have lost ambitious managers because of that. Who have moved on and proved they can manage league 1 sides and gain promotion. I wonder what data indicates on players level to their cost.

[silent majority]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

The rest are The manager, Copps and CEO?

This needs scrapping for starters, if this season is anything to go by. I question whether Younger knows anything about talent; as far as Copps role, I would assume he looks into their mindset (based on what we’ve got, I’d question whether he was actually doing that!); the manager’s performance in approving several of his January incomings does not bode well, IF the Board do give him the summer. The CEO can only be making sure the wages fit what budget is available.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Now, who (within that quartet) are looking at the strategy of the Club such that the new lads will indeed put us in a good place going forward? Because there’s been very little strategising as far as I can make out. The new ‘system’ of picking players by committee has proven to be part of the shambles that we find ourselves in.

Back to Gazlaz’s revolution - far more interesting.

No, the Chairman chairs that committee and signs everything off!!

SM -
Who negotiates the deals and "gets them over the line?" Or who has the say on delaying aka Grigg/OBrien mix ups?

A bit of a loaded question CR? Why not state what you really want me to say.

[GazLaz]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

Let’s be straight. Every club used data. Whoever uses it best has the advantage. Most clubs use it at face value (dangerous) and think they are being smart and others pay lip service to it and when it comes down to making big decisions they revert to type.

If you have systems in place it can create accountability, you can see how and when you go wrong clearly and adjust the way you work.

“Football” people are reluctant to embrace it fully because then they would feel out of control. The non ex players/ managers are the ones having the real success running football clubs now.

[Canadian Rover]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

The rest are The manager, Copps and CEO?

This needs scrapping for starters, if this season is anything to go by. I question whether Younger knows anything about talent; as far as Copps role, I would assume he looks into their mindset (based on what we’ve got, I’d question whether he was actually doing that!); the manager’s performance in approving several of his January incomings does not bode well, IF the Board do give him the summer. The CEO can only be making sure the wages fit what budget is available.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Now, who (within that quartet) are looking at the strategy of the Club such that the new lads will indeed put us in a good place going forward? Because there’s been very little strategising as far as I can make out. The new ‘system’ of picking players by committee has proven to be part of the shambles that we find ourselves in.

Back to Gazlaz’s revolution - far more interesting.

No, the Chairman chairs that committee and signs everything off!!

SM -
Who negotiates the deals and "gets them over the line?" Or who has the say on delaying aka Grigg/OBrien mix ups?

A bit of a loaded question CR? Why not state what you really want me to say.

Who's accountable for transfers?

[silent majority]

Havn’t we had clarity about ‘the selection committee’?

Younger is Talent Identification

The rest are The manager, Copps and CEO?

This needs scrapping for starters, if this season is anything to go by. I question whether Younger knows anything about talent; as far as Copps role, I would assume he looks into their mindset (based on what we’ve got, I’d question whether he was actually doing that!); the manager’s performance in approving several of his January incomings does not bode well, IF the Board do give him the summer. The CEO can only be making sure the wages fit what budget is available.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

Now, who (within that quartet) are looking at the strategy of the Club such that the new lads will indeed put us in a good place going forward? Because there’s been very little strategising as far as I can make out. The new ‘system’ of picking players by committee has proven to be part of the shambles that we find ourselves in.

Back to Gazlaz’s revolution - far more interesting.

No, the Chairman chairs that committee and signs everything off!!

SM -
Who negotiates the deals and "gets them over the line?" Or who has the say on delaying aka Grigg/OBrien mix ups?

A bit of a loaded question CR? Why not state what you really want me to say.

Who's accountable for transfers?

The buck stops with the Chairman.

[silent majority]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

Let’s be straight. Every club used data. Whoever uses it best has the advantage. Most clubs use it at face value (dangerous) and think they are being smart and others pay lip service to it and when it comes down to making big decisions they revert to type.

If you have systems in place it can create accountability, you can see how and when you go wrong clearly and adjust the way you work.

“Football” people are reluctant to embrace it fully because then they would feel out of control. The non ex players/ managers are the ones having the real success running football clubs now.

That's a very interesting point, that football people are the ones who would be reluctant.

I know Gavin would give this his support because its something that has cropped up in conversation a few times. I can't speak for DB though, I've not discussed football issues with him as such.

[NickDRFC]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

Let’s be straight. Every club used data. Whoever uses it best has the advantage. Most clubs use it at face value (dangerous) and think they are being smart and others pay lip service to it and when it comes down to making big decisions they revert to type.

If you have systems in place it can create accountability, you can see how and when you go wrong clearly and adjust the way you work.

“Football” people are reluctant to embrace it fully because then they would feel out of control. The non ex players/ managers are the ones having the real success running football clubs now.

That's a very interesting point, that football people are the ones who would be reluctant.

I know Gavin would give this his support because its something that has cropped up in conversation a few times. I can't speak for DB though, I've not discussed football issues with him as such.

If David Blunt is in charge of the football side of the club and Gavin Baldwin has nothing to do with it, why haven’t you discussed football issues with Blunt? Surely that’s who the supporters representative should be speaking to?

[silent majority]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

Let’s be straight. Every club used data. Whoever uses it best has the advantage. Most clubs use it at face value (dangerous) and think they are being smart and others pay lip service to it and when it comes down to making big decisions they revert to type.

If you have systems in place it can create accountability, you can see how and when you go wrong clearly and adjust the way you work.

“Football” people are reluctant to embrace it fully because then they would feel out of control. The non ex players/ managers are the ones having the real success running football clubs now.

That's a very interesting point, that football people are the ones who would be reluctant.

I know Gavin would give this his support because its something that has cropped up in conversation a few times. I can't speak for DB though, I've not discussed football issues with him as such.

If David Blunt is in charge of the football side of the club and Gavin Baldwin has nothing to do with it, why haven’t you discussed football issues with Blunt? Surely that’s who the supporters representative should be speaking to?

You think I should be discussing football issues?

A couple of things;

1) I'm not the only supporter rep.
2) Football issues are NOT our area of responsibility.

[NickDRFC]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

Let’s be straight. Every club used data. Whoever uses it best has the advantage. Most clubs use it at face value (dangerous) and think they are being smart and others pay lip service to it and when it comes down to making big decisions they revert to type.

If you have systems in place it can create accountability, you can see how and when you go wrong clearly and adjust the way you work.

“Football” people are reluctant to embrace it fully because then they would feel out of control. The non ex players/ managers are the ones having the real success running football clubs now.

That's a very interesting point, that football people are the ones who would be reluctant.

I know Gavin would give this his support because its something that has cropped up in conversation a few times. I can't speak for DB though, I've not discussed football issues with him as such.

If David Blunt is in charge of the football side of the club and Gavin Baldwin has nothing to do with it, why haven’t you discussed football issues with Blunt? Surely that’s who the supporters representative should be speaking to?

You think I should be discussing football issues?

A couple of things;

1) I'm not the only supporter rep.
2) Football issues are NOT our area of responsibility.

Yet you’ve discussed football issues with Gavin Baldwin?

[turnbull for england]

And here we go full circle to SM having nto explain his remit again

[Canadian Rover]

And here we go full circle to SM having to explain his remit again

Yeah...let's not make this a SM issue!! He's not the club, he's a fan, a link and a great one to have here!

[silent majority]

SWCK
No-one is saying to use them blindly. The point is that if you don't use them intelligently and other clubs do, you're immediately at a disadvantage.

If you want to get the most efficiency out of your car, you'd be daft to ignore the trip computer data. That doesn't mean you don't have to use the steering wheel as well while you're driving.

Let’s be straight. Every club used data. Whoever uses it best has the advantage. Most clubs use it at face value (dangerous) and think they are being smart and others pay lip service to it and when it comes down to making big decisions they revert to type.

If you have systems in place it can create accountability, you can see how and when you go wrong clearly and adjust the way you work.

“Football” people are reluctant to embrace it fully because then they would feel out of control. The non ex players/ managers are the ones having the real success running football clubs now.

That's a very interesting point, that football people are the ones who would be reluctant.

I know Gavin would give this his support because its something that has cropped up in conversation a few times. I can't speak for DB though, I've not discussed football issues with him as such.

If David Blunt is in charge of the football side of the club and Gavin Baldwin has nothing to do with it, why haven’t you discussed football issues with Blunt? Surely that’s who the supporters representative should be speaking to?

You think I should be discussing football issues?

A couple of things;

1) I'm not the only supporter rep.
2) Football issues are NOT our area of responsibility.

Yet you’ve discussed football issues with Gavin Baldwin?

Yes of course I do, but its not an official request or part of my remit. Yes, we ask for an understanding of where the club is going and, just like other supporters, we show a great deal of interest. General interest is good to know so we can relay some of that back, but what happens on the pitch can't be affected by us and nor should it be.

I can request changes to season ticket pricing, stewarding issues, and activities off the pitch, etc.  But footballing issues, what happens on that green stuff, isn't part of it.

And even if it was, who's opinion would I represent? None of you can agree from one Saturday to the next, so what would you expect me to suggest?

I know you like to be contrary to all my posts Nick, but this is a weird one, even for you.

[Upton Rover]

Well put together and totally agree with everything

[silent majority]

I think things like this need to be put to the club. It has been clear for a while that we are lagging far behind on the data/analytics front which is starting to take over the sport. Appointments like Graham Younger proved that we aren't where we need to be.

Does SM or anyone know if there is any scope to get this point made to Baldwin or Blunt?

I'd just like to add that both Gaz and myself met up with Gavin some months ago and explored lots of these topics and subject areas. So, its fair to say that Gavin has been looking at changing the structure and the mode of thinking around the club.

I'm sure more of that will become apparent once changes have been implemented.

[PDX_Rover]

Blunt is the key to everything. He needs to change or consider his position. Just my opinion