BBC Diversity group up in arms about Michael Vaughan being retained.

[danumdon]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/27/bbc-diversity-group-rails-michael-vaughan-commentary

Does this just knock another nail in the coffin of a once respected broadcaster.

"The email – written by BBC Sport’s Black, Asian and minority ethnic group and sent on Monday morning – said the decision to allow Vaughan to commentate on the game for Radio 5 live was “totally inexcusable” and “a shocking miscalculation” that had caused “excruciating, overwhelming and unbearable” distress among many members of staff."

"excruciating, overwhelming and unbearable" that sounds to me like someone needs the toilet , quick.

The guy has categorically denied he said or did anything racist, until such a time as this case has been proven in a court should he not be be assumed innocent util proven guilty. If this proves to be the case then yes throw the book at him but don't deny him his livelihood until that's the case.

What i'd be asking is why the BBC did not feel the need to carry out their own internal HR investigation after the ECB has stated that it's charged him with bringing the game into dispute?

Have they not had enough time to do this, is something else at play here?

[roversdude]

Tail trying to wag the dog

[selby]

  And who the chuff are they when their about?  Their opinion carries about as much weight with me as the man in the moon.

[colfromdonny]

And yet the person who started all of this has conveniently had all of his anti semetic behaviour forgotten about

[i_ateallthepies]

And yet the person who started all of this has conveniently had all of his anti semetic behaviour forgotten about

This, exactly.

[SydneyRover]

Isn't Rafiq expected to be charged at a later date?

[selby]

  Tallented player, no commitment, poor fitness levels, and a  poor me attitude and personality, Note that he failed to make his mark at Derbyshire as well when given the chance to resurrect his career.
   In the clip that is shown of him regularly on the TV in training the other players are laughing at him as he goes through the exorcise.
  From the outside looking in I would say that some of the most racial people in cricket are now on the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club, and it goes without saying employed by the BBC.

[SydneyRover]

maybe they should be exorcised?

[BillyStubbsTears]

"From the outside looking in I would say that some of the most racial people in cricket are now on the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club"

Anybody?

No, me neither.

[wilts rover]

Anyone know when the Sethi Report will be published? This is the latest info I can find on th eYorkshire CC website:

The Whistleblowing Hotline has to date [1 April 2022] received 69 Complaints.

Every Complainant has been contacted by the Sethi Investigation team.

31 Complaints did not fall within the Sethi Investigation’s Terms of Reference (the “Terms of Reference”).

38 Complaints fell within the Terms of Reference.

Of the 38 Complaints falling within the Terms of Reference, 19 complaints are being actively investigated (the remaining 19 having been either resolved, redirected or voluntarily discontinued).

Of the active Complaints falling within the Terms of Reference, each Complainant has attended an investigation meeting with the Sethi Investigation Team.

These Investigation meetings clarified the Complaints and identified the further steps necessary to progress the Investigation, from which the Sethi Investigation Team made a series of requests for further information to YCCC.

The Sethi Investigation Team is now awaiting substantive responses from YCCC in respect of those requests (including requests for contact details of various potential witnesses to the events forming the subject matter of the Complaints).

https://yorkshireccc.com/news/view/9906/sethi-investigation-update-1-april-2022

[phil old leake]

Colfromdonny you’re absolutely correct.  This is the total hypocrisy of most of these so called diversity groups. They seem to see things only one way theirs. 

I just don’t understand why Rafiq is being looked at as some kind of hero. 

Let’s not forget he has a history of anti Semite behaviour which for some reason has been conveniently forgotten or pushed under the carpet to meet the At the time Agenda

At this moment in time M Vaughan is an innocent man. I’ll be very surprised if he has done anything any more serious than his accuser

[Campsall rover]

Colfromdonny you’re absolutely correct.  This is the total hypocrisy of most of these so called diversity groups. They seem to see things only one way theirs. 

I just don’t understand why Rafiq is being looked at as some kind of hero. 

Let’s not forget he has a history of anti Semite behaviour which for some reason has been conveniently forgotten or pushed under the carpet to meet the At the time Agenda

At this moment in time M Vaughan is an innocent man. I’ll be very surprised if he has done anything any more serious than his accuser

While I am very much against any form of racism or discrimination, the more I hear of this Rafiq case the more convinced I am many of the Yorkshire staff have been treated very shabbily.
Many were dismissed without any evidence of wrong doing. Some have already won unfair dismissal cases in tribunals or legal cases brought against the club.

The ECB basically forced the Club to take drastic action or lose test match status and possibly face bankruptcy as a consequence.
The ECB have handled this appallingly imo. Would they have acted like they have had it been Surrey or Middlesex who had transgressed?

Now I am not saying no racism occurred at Headingley, it almost certainly did, but much of this was banter which even only 10/15 years ago was the norm. That doesn’t make it right of course but it wasn’t intend as being racist by the perpetrators. It was meant as banter.
In the modern world now of course all this banter is unacceptable and I accept that as being right.

I do think the whole episode is a shambles and Rafiq needs to take a long hard look in the mirror at his actions in discrediting many people who intended no harm to him.
With his anti semite comments he has made in the past he is nothing more than a hypocrite and therefore he has lost my respect due to the hypocrisy.

[Campsall rover]

  Tallented player, no commitment, poor fitness levels, and a  poor me attitude and personality, Note that he failed to make his mark at Derbyshire as well when given the chance to resurrect his career.
   In the clip that is shown of him regularly on the TV in training the other players are laughing at him as he goes through the exorcise.
  From the outside looking in I would say that some of the most racial people in cricket are now on the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club, and it goes without saying employed by the BBC.

Brian you are going to have to explain that one to me. What are you saying. I think a few of us are flabbergasted at that. Do you actually mean what it would seem you said or did you mean to say something different to how it reads?

[phil old leake]

I see that the cancel team have won again.  MV has stepped away from his BBC commitments

If he or any of the others being witch hunted are found to have not been guilty of what they are accused of (and it is an if) will anyone offer them an apology

I think everyone knows the answer to that question

[SydneyRover]

I think there is a couple of witnesses to the offending comments phil

[roversdude]

Andrew Gale is refusing to go through the ECB “witch hunt”
Can’t blame him after his treatment by Yorkshire and cricket in general

[selby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61978628
  It is going to get messy

[phil old leake]

Well done and well said A Gale

It’s about time people started to say it as it is. 

I’m a bit surprised that in this article he seems to state he hasn’t been compensated for his wrongful dismissal

I can see his point.  His only problem is he will now be outcast from cricket. 

[wilts rover]

Well done and well said A Gale

It’s about time people started to say it as it is. 

I’m a bit surprised that in this article he seems to state he hasn’t been compensated for his wrongful dismissal

I can see his point.  His only problem is he will now be outcast from cricket. 

Colfromdonny you’re absolutely correct.  This is the total hypocrisy of most of these so called diversity groups. They seem to see things only one way theirs. 

I just don’t understand why Rafiq is being looked at as some kind of hero. 

Let’s not forget he has a history of anti Semite behaviour which for some reason has been conveniently forgotten or pushed under the carpet to meet the At the time Agenda

At this moment in time M Vaughan is an innocent man. I’ll be very surprised if he has done anything any more serious than his accuser

Hmmm - hypocracy - now why would one person be condemned for an anti-semitic comment but not another - in fact applauded for 'saying it as it is' - hmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10171227/Yorkshire-race-scandal-takes-twist-coach-Andrew-Gale-caught-anti-Semitism-storm

[phil old leake]

The point being Wilts. The accuser is as guilty as the accused and potentially worse

The point I’m agreeing with Gale about is if HE believes the enquiry is a foregone conclusion and is tilted towards a desired outcome why should he waste his time

I’ve read the link and in todays world of self righteousness it is racist.  I take it that Paul Dews is Jewish.

Surely Wilts you’re not trying to make a justified argument to support A Rafiqs past misdemeanours

Before you come back at me for criticising Rafiq my point all along with this is for some reason he apologises and all is forgiven. Balance apologised and was completely vilified



There has got to be some consistency

[BobG]

And when I remember the chants and vocabulary we used to shout in the playgrounds, in the streets, on the terraces... Clearly, I need to be shot at dawn. Autre temps autre mondes has no role in todays' society. 

I loathe fascists. Am I to be outed and cancelled then?

BobG

[phil old leake]

That’s the problem with all that’s going on.  Anyone can now claim they were discriminated against historically and the alleged accusers life is ruined.  I would suggest that everyone has told an inappropriate joke or laughed at one or called someone a name that is now deemed wrong

I can remember being called names at school and in the workplace and it was banter. 

[SydneyRover]

Barney Ronay Nov 2021

''When it comes to racism in cricket, the ECB is the accused not the judge''

'' ................ Shall we pick a date? How about June 1998 when 56 MPs led, gawd bless him, by the vigorous backbencher Jeremy Corbyn, put forward a parliamentary motion calling for action from the ECB over research that revealed “a culture of racial exclusion, racial stereotyping and … racial abuse of black and Asian cricket players”.

Ring any bells? Does it sound, for example, like the exact words used by people like John Holder, Michael Holding, Michael Carberry and Azeem Rafiq in the decades since?

More dates. A year later the ECB drummed up its first Great Big Anti Racism Report, with Tim Lamb, Harrison’s predecessor as CEO, announcing that “complacency is not acceptable”. And yet six years on the motto “Clean Bowl Racism” had somehow failed to cleanse the organs of the national summer sport, to the extent that former Bradford North MP Terry Rooney spoke in parliament about “the deep-rooted embedded racism in Yorkshire County Cricket Club”.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/nov/05/racism-cricket-ecb-azeem-rafiq-yorkshire-cricket

Cricket has been blighted by sledging probably from before some cricketers decided that targeting the man rather than the wooden bits at each end was a good idea.

[BobG]

I bet the Aussies are quaking in their boots.....

Racism is wrong. The only fight I ever had was me thumping a bloke who called an Indian girl a very nasty name. But what a world of pansies we have become. I had freckles as a kid. 'Was you shit on through a tea strainer?' was daily fare. Wonder if I can sue? The kids who said it? The school for not protecting me? Doncaster Education Department for having an incorrect environment in their schools? I'm scarred for life I am.

Pansies. Bloody pansies.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

Yes it wrong Bob, but how long has it been since it was right?

[danumdon]

And when I remember the chants and vocabulary we used to shout in the playgrounds, in the streets, on the terraces... Clearly, I need to be shot at dawn. Autre temps autre mondes has no role in todays' society. 

I loathe fascists. Am I to be outed and cancelled then?

BobG

You outed and cancelled yourself the other week when you ranted on about why the plebs were allowed to have a vote when they were too thick to know what they were voting about. "And you loath fascists"

The hypocrisy just gushes out of you Bob.

[selby]

  Well, if you look at the make up of the England team that stepped out at Leeds in the last test, or even the Ladies test team, unless you are dead set against New Zealand it has been eradicated for the present, whether by design or not is another question.
  It looks like white middle and upper England are having a good run at the moment, although myself I can't believe that there isn't someone better than Crawley.

[wilts rover]

The point being Wilts. The accuser is as guilty as the accused and potentially worse

The point I’m agreeing with Gale about is if HE believes the enquiry is a foregone conclusion and is tilted towards a desired outcome why should he waste his time

I’ve read the link and in todays world of self righteousness it is racist.  I take it that Paul Dews is Jewish.

Surely Wilts you’re not trying to make a justified argument to support A Rafiqs past misdemeanours

Before you come back at me for criticising Rafiq my point all along with this is for some reason he apologises and all is forgiven. Balance apologised and was completely vilified



There has got to be some consistency

Yes I agree Phil - there has to be consistency.

Why has one cricketer been condenmed for making an anti-semitic comment - but not another?

Why does making an anti-semitic comment make one cricketer unreliable - yet not the other?

Not particuarly aimed at you btw - it was just handy having your two comments so close together to make my point.

[phil old leake]

I do agree with you about how soft we’ve become as a nation BobG

Some of the things being raised by many as being racist or homophobic or hateful are really quite sad

Everyone has been called names. I worked with a black lad who had a really long and difficult surname to pronounce. Everyone called him AJ from memory. He was happy at that and laughed when people got the pronunciation wrong    I  also worked with a lot of people from Poland many tears ago and it was similar.  They were all called Ski and again thought it was funny when you tried to spell their names without vowels

Racism needs dealing with and eradicating. It’s also about time that some of this petty nonsense is dealt with as petty nonsense and dealt with as petty nonsense. Acknowledged as being wrong but dealt with for what it is

The other problem is that the goal posts change constantly.  A few years ago if you’d called a GAY person queer you’d have been called homophobic now they are “Queer”  I’ve been in New York and Toronto during the Gay Pride month.  Some of the gay females are walking around with banners acclaiming how good it is to be “Dyke”.  Again not long ago that was an insult. 

Times and behaviour changes.  Let’s have some sensibility with all of this and deal with RACISTS properly and not hold witch hunts against hard working genuine people who have made silly jokes when they were children or said something acceptable 20 yrs ago that isn’t acceptable now.

If we don’t then I would suggest that most of the people on this forum are in trouble. 

[SydneyRover]

If you stick to criticism about what people do rather than their personal characteristics then there is no problem, unless they are picked on because of their differences, as you say phil things change over time and noone knows what another's boundaries or limits are.