Sam Tarry

[SydneyRover]

I thought Lynch was a bit smarter than this, unless of course it's a double bluff on his part.

''Lynch also said he would campaign for the Trades Union Congress to call a general strike if Liz Truss became prime minister in September and pressed ahead with anti-union plans''

[SydneyRover]

Labour front bencher sacked by Keith for appearing on a picket line.

Are you Labour supporters seriously going to vote for this centrist, liberalist bloke masquerading as a Labour leader?

''Responding to his dismissal, Mr Tarry - a supporter of the former leader Jeremy Corbyn - thanked Sir Keir for "the last two and a half years" on the front bench, but said it was "a real shame" he had been removed for "joining a picket line''''

You and Tarry and others don't even understand why he was sacked from the front bench, Steve aye?

[phil old leake]

This is potentially a very clever move by Starmer. He’s hoping the die hard Labour supporters will vote Labour no matter what.  With the current situation with the Tories he’s probably right

He’s hoping to appeal to the  others who aren’t devoted to a party and maybe pull some of the first time tories back to Labour.

Personally I can’t see it but it could be a way of attracting votes

For me he’s Tony Blair 2

[SydneyRover]

This is potentially a very clever move by Starmer. He’s hoping the die hard Labour supporters will vote Labour no matter what.  With the current situation with the Tories he’s probably right

He’s hoping to appeal to the  others who aren’t devoted to a party and maybe pull some of the first time tories back to Labour.

Personally I can’t see it but it could be a way of attracting votes

For me he’s Tony Blair 2

A straw poll on this very thread tells me that lapsed/potential labour supporters at the first stroke attack the very party the only party that could rid the country of this corrupt government, instead of going after the party that engineered the conditions.

Instead of being smart and supporting a party that could possible change the government and then change the voting system, (something the tories would least want) which would allow them to go on their merry way and form various parties all across the land, they attack a leader that was democratically elected. How's that for not accepting a vote?

The 'bring back the triple lock' party

'Don't touch my pension' party

'I'm more working class than you' party

[Colemans Left Hook]

Yet another case of Starmer ignoring his traditional voters in pursuit of Daily Heil readers who are never going to vote for him. Madness.

He's completely spineless Wilts and the Labour Party need to get rid and get rid now .

There's a window of opportunity opened up for Labour , almost a perfect storm given the inadequacies of the Tories and the current events playing out and Keith could very well feck this up .

This is where you have your head on backwards tyke, not that you do anything remotely political ( the tv remote maybe) you should going after Shatts for not stepping in and sorting the problem, this is the fight the tory government have been praying for, the wedge.

that "could be true"   but yesterdays "choreographed self destruct action " by Tarry  (Corbinjobite & x-shop steward)  makes one ask how long will Starmer tarry on as leader ...   

[SydneyRover]

Yet another case of Starmer ignoring his traditional voters in pursuit of Daily Heil readers who are never going to vote for him. Madness.

He's completely spineless Wilts and the Labour Party need to get rid and get rid now .

There's a window of opportunity opened up for Labour , almost a perfect storm given the inadequacies of the Tories and the current events playing out and Keith could very well feck this up .

This is where you have your head on backwards tyke, not that you do anything remotely political ( the tv remote maybe) you should going after Shatts for not stepping in and sorting the problem, this is the fight the tory government have been praying for, the wedge.

that "could be true"   but yesterdays "choreographed self destruct action " by Tarry  (Corbinjobite & x-shop steward)  makes one ask how long will Starmer tarry on as leader ...   

'Staged' is likely correct although if you thought he was trying oust Starmer he wouldn't have thanked him?

'' thanked Sir Keir for "the last two and a half years" on the front bench, but said it was "a real shame" he had been removed for "joining a picket line".

And again he is either incorrect as to the reason he was sacked or wanted to spin it to gain support for his position within the left and or course his own seat. Neither of which do I have a problem with, provided it is part of a well thought plan to achieve better pay and conditions and also rid the country of a corrupt government.

I just hope this is not giving the tory government exactly what they need right now.

[scawsby steve]

BST,

Well that didn't take long. Sydney's comments I can understand, because he's as daft as a f*cking brush; but I honestly thought you were politically smarter than this.

You KNOW that Starmer's a metropolitan elitist, with no understanding of working class people. You KNOW he's done a complete U turn on public ownership. You KNOW he's not given the slightest inkling on what he'd do about the cost of living crisis, or the economy. You KNOW that his lack of support for Trade Unions is about to cost the Labour Party millions of pounds in lost funding. You KNOW that Labour is only ahead in the polls because of how atrocious the Tory Party is; you've admitted yourself that opposition parties don't win elections, governments lose them.

Now, could you please list carefully the things that convince you, to the point of tribal partisanship, that this bloke's a good Labour leader, and will make a good Prime Minister.

[SydneyRover]

Steve all you have to do is offer a/some solutions and forecast what your plan of action is or what it will lead to, you are going to actually do something, no?

Please name your replacement leader and please tell me you have asked him or her first.

regards piss and wind

PS there is a tired corrupt government completely out of ideas and there is a grave danger of awakening the rest of the sleepy tories, in your own time.

[Filo]

Filo
Read into the story. There's a lot more to it. He has NOT been sacked for joining a picket line, despite what some folk on here want to be the case.

The Labour Party came about because of the oppression of the Labour Movement (working man), an MP wether being in the left or on the right of the party should be allowed to express his solidarity with the working man, this decision is like shooting themselves in the foot, the Tory’s are in chaos and Labour just keep on making life difficult for themselves. As a trade unionist I can’t and won’t support this action!

[Ldr]

Agree Filo, the problem is the current Labour Party is Labour in name only

[albie]

So the silent knight sacks the transport minister for siding with transport workers on the picket....this is getting unreal now!

Enemy of the working class is Keith, opposing trade union activities in support of basic rights to defend against low wages in a cost of living crisis....embarrassing!

Nice story Albie and of course it fits your agenda.

Except that's not the reason he was sacked is it?

BST,

Priceless, that is....coming from you!

The idea that Tarry was sacked for not observing "collective responsibility" is completely for the birds.

Issued as a belated response from Labour HQ after he was sacked, it came after the fact, when lobby hacks were reporting it as a breach of Keith's loony no picketing instructions, and a rebuke for supporting inflation linked wage rises.

Jessica Elgot of the Guardian;
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1552339295582752768

As Tarry is a TU member, sponsored and nominated as a union MP, he was simply doing what ALL Labour MP's should, supporting the RMT against the government. It is the function of the opposition to oppose.

All the more hypocritical because Reeves has twice breached Labour policy in recent days.
Firstly, she spoke to media on LGTB rights, giving a personal opinion......then she followed up with the complete farce of Labour's position on nationalisation, changing the stance 3 times in a few hours.

Reeves has NOT been sacked by Keith.

Syd,

"Naive" eh!
Been called some things in my time, but that is not one of them!

I would say reading that TUC tweet and not seeing the meaning of it was pretty naive.
What percentage of Labour funding comes from the TUC, remind me?

[Ldr]

Albie,

What you are seeing on this thread is a microcosm of what is happening with the Labour Party as a whole. On One side are people with principles like yourself, Tyke and Filo who stand for a principled belief in support for the worker and the other side that lacks any such principles and are more interested in getting power

Has to be reconciled as what good is power without principals or principles without power?

[Ldr]

I thought Lynch was a bit smarter than this, unless of course it's a double bluff on his part.

''Lynch also said he would campaign for the Trades Union Congress to call a general strike if Liz Truss became prime minister in September and pressed ahead with anti-union plans''

Syd, does he see himself has this generations Scargill? Trying to bring down the government

[RobTheRover]

Albie,

What you are seeing on this thread is a microcosm of what is happening with the Labour Party as a whole. On One side are people with principles like yourself, Tyke and Filo who stand for a principled belief in support for the worker and the other side that lacks any such principles and are more interested in getting power

To be fair, you can have principles but jot be rooted in glorious defeat. We need the tories out, my concern is that Keir is not the guy to rally the masses. Personally, I'd like Andy Burnham to return from his sabbatical in MCR

[drfchound]

Well, I have seen a token response from bst, pointing out something that Noel had already highlighted.
Nothing else from him says volumes.
I have seen some pathetic deflection attempts by Syd including one to SS where he suggests that he should personally ask a potential new leader if they would want the job.
(Not totally unexpected from Syd though).

Filo and albie have put forward much more reasoned views and it would appear that Starmer, and Reeves, are on a downward spiral.
I have no doubt that bst, Syd and some others on here will support Starmer until he is gone.
They did so with Corbyn and once he had been given the boot they were quick to condemn him and i expect that to be the case with Starmer.

[Filo]

Albie,

What you are seeing on this thread is a microcosm of what is happening with the Labour Party as a whole. On One side are people with principles like yourself, Tyke and Filo who stand for a principled belief in support for the worker and the other side that lacks any such principles and are more interested in getting power

To be fair, you can have principles but jot be rooted in glorious defeat. We need the tories out, my concern is that Keir is not the guy to rally the masses. Personally, I'd like Andy Burnham to return from his sabbatical in MCR

I think that is my position also

[Ldr]

Albie,

What you are seeing on this thread is a microcosm of what is happening with the Labour Party as a whole. On One side are people with principles like yourself, Tyke and Filo who stand for a principled belief in support for the worker and the other side that lacks any such principles and are more interested in getting power

To be fair, you can have principles but jot be rooted in glorious defeat. We need the tories out, my concern is that Keir is not the guy to rally the masses. Personally, I'd like Andy Burnham to return from his sabbatical in MCR

I think that is my position also

And I don’t think I could argue it Filo / RTR

[SydneyRover]

Syd,

"Naive" eh!
Been called some things in my time, but that is not one of them!

I would say reading that TUC tweet and not seeing the meaning of it was pretty naive.
What percentage of Labour funding comes from the TUC, remind me?

ST would have known all the rules and appears to have gone out of his way to make a stance, as I said to Steve, I don't have problems with any of this, a party has rules and if you knowingly break them you suffer the consequences. Look at the OP look at your post, you were both incorrect. Take a step back and look at the mess corbyn left the party in, the worst defeat since when, and all the problems that cost time and money to fix.

You are naive if you think all this can be fixed and take government by someone as left as corbyn. I keep asking you and others for your successor and your game plan but you go quiet.

This is sounding very much like a 3/4th tier football forum

[drfchound]

Syd,

"Naive" eh!
Been called some things in my time, but that is not one of them!

I would say reading that TUC tweet and not seeing the meaning of it was pretty naive.
What percentage of Labour funding comes from the TUC, remind me?

ST would have known all the rules and appears to have gone out of his way to make a stance, as I said to Steve, I don't have problems with any of this, a party has rules and if you knowingly break them you suffer the consequences. Look at the OP look at your post, you were both incorrect. Take a step back and look at the mess corbyn left the party in, the worst defeat since when, and all the problems that cost time and money to fix.

You are naive if you think all this can be fixed and take government by someone as left as corbyn. I keep asking you and others for your successor and your game plan but you go quiet.

This is sounding very much like a 3/4th tier football forum

Syd, as I have already said, you are condemning Corbyn now but fully supported him when he was your leader.
You will do the same with Starmer.

[SydneyRover]

I thought Lynch was a bit smarter than this, unless of course it's a double bluff on his part.

''Lynch also said he would campaign for the Trades Union Congress to call a general strike if Liz Truss became prime minister in September and pressed ahead with anti-union plans''

Syd, does he see himself has this generations Scargill? Trying to bring down the government

I'm not sure what he sees himself as, I would have thought that you wouldn't go out of your way to pick a fight you can't be sure of winning.

If this is the end game and neither of us know, then it will fire up the tory party to back the leader and the yellow press already rabidly against labour will go OTT

This government is on the way out, my thinking is not to get in the way. You are going to have to name your replacement leader to make any sense Ldr. If you don't think Starmer is up to it and make sure that person is available and can do it. What is your game plan beyond someone else striking?

[Ldr]

Looking from the outside in with regards to Labour Syd someone like Raynor or Phillips would appeal to me and increase my likelyhood of suppprting Labour. I think both are principled and not afraid to voice it. If Starmer goes thought I think that Raynor would be dragged down though too be association

Lynch I think would want someone more to the left so maybe Nandy?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The point that's missed though is labour want to position as fiscally responsible. They want to run day to day spending without huge borrowing and they want to maintain/increase services.  None of that is compatible with pay rises that stay aligned with inflation so they cannot possibly support the calls for big pay rises.  They have a real problem that they can't necessarily meet all of the promises and things they've called for.  You could argue they should look more short term and keep promising.

However, Starmer still should not have sacked the guy.  Interesting dynamic that he is supposedly the boyfriend of his deputy.....

[SydneyRover]

The point that's missed though is labour want to position as fiscally responsible. They want to run day to day spending without huge borrowing and they want to maintain/increase services.  None of that is compatible with pay rises that stay aligned with inflation so they cannot possibly support the calls for big pay rises.  They have a real problem that they can't necessarily meet all of the promises and things they've called for.  You could argue they should look more short term and keep promising.

However, Starmer still should not have sacked the guy.  Interesting dynamic that he is supposedly the boyfriend of his deputy.....

The sacking would not have gone ahead without the deputies knowledge (not after previous stuff ups) so there must have been  agreement.

[SydneyRover]

Looking from the outside in with regards to Labour Syd someone like Raynor or Phillips would appeal to me and increase my likelyhood of suppprting Labour. I think both are principled and not afraid to voice it. If Starmer goes thought I think that Raynor would be dragged down though too be association

Lynch I think would want someone more to the left so maybe Nandy?

With respect Ldr you should have your plan and successor nailed down before you start the revolution, this ain't 'Tenable"

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie,

What you are seeing on this thread is a microcosm of what is happening with the Labour Party as a whole. On One side are people with principles like yourself, Tyke and Filo who stand for a principled belief in support for the worker and the other side that lacks any such principles and are more interested in getting power

To be fair, you can have principles but jot be rooted in glorious defeat. We need the tories out, my concern is that Keir is not the guy to rally the masses. Personally, I'd like Andy Burnham to return from his sabbatical in MCR

I think that is my position also

I'd agree too with Burnham.

But that's not happening this side of a General Election. So you play the hand you've got.

[Metalmicky]

Even Abbott is wading in on Keith.... posted a pic on her twitter feed showing Stumbler on a picket line 3 years ago...

[SydneyRover]

Remind me MM, was that before 12 Dec 2019 or after?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Even Abbott is wading in on Keith.... posted a pic on her twitter feed showing Stumbler on a picket line 3 years ago...

And once again. That's not the issue.

[Bentley Bullet]

The unions seem to think it is.

[Colemans Left Hook]

Albie,

What you are seeing on this thread is a microcosm of what is happening with the Labour Party as a whole. On One side are people with principles like yourself, Tyke and Filo who stand for a principled belief in support for the worker and the other side that lacks any such principles and are more interested in getting power

To be fair, you can have principles but jot be rooted in glorious defeat. We need the tories out, my concern is that Keir is not the guy to rally the masses. Personally, I'd like Andy Burnham to return from his sabbatical in MCR

I think that is my position also

I'd agree too with Burnham.

But that's not happening this side of a General Election. So you play the hand you've got.

wilts i checked the best odds for a labour victory at the next general election and the very best was 11/10    - I have money on "Burnham Beeches" at very big odds   to succeed Stamen as leader so need to keep him in power til Burnham gets a seat

Glad to see you have all "eventually" come around to my way of thinking