truss

[River Don]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Without wanting to harp on about Covid again, it does however feel worth mentioning that in all likelihood we would have been under Covid restrictions for longer under a Labour government and thus destroying the economy even more than the Tories did.

Does it "feel" like that?

I'm not sure this is a valid point. Mostly Labour wanted to lockdown harder and faster, in order to exit those lockdowns sooner with less damage being incurred.

[ncRover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Without wanting to harp on about Covid again, it does however feel worth mentioning that in all likelihood we would have been under Covid restrictions for longer under a Labour government and thus destroying the economy even more than the Tories did.

Does it "feel" like that?

I'm not sure this is a valid point. Mostly Labour wanted to lockdown harder and faster, in order to exit those lockdowns sooner with less damage being incurred.

You still believe that, even now?

[Panda]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Without wanting to harp on about Covid again, it does however feel worth mentioning that in all likelihood we would have been under Covid restrictions for longer under a Labour government and thus destroying the economy even more than the Tories did.

Does it "feel" like that?

I'm not sure this is a valid point. Mostly Labour wanted to lockdown harder and faster, in order to exit those lockdowns sooner with less damage being incurred.

This must be the daftest, most naive thing i've read. Labour would have had us locked away last Xmas when clearly there was no need. As already now proven.

[bpoolrover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

Without wanting to harp on about Covid again, it does however feel worth mentioning that in all likelihood we would have been under Covid restrictions for longer under a Labour government and thus destroying the economy even more than the Tories did.

Does it "feel" like that?

I'm not sure this is a valid point. Mostly Labour wanted to lockdown harder and faster, in order to exit those lockdowns sooner with less damage being incurred.

they were wanting lockdowns and restrictions long after we had opened up again

[wilts rover]

Bloke moaning about the NHS wanted more patients to be sent to the NHS.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

You need to go back further.

The country missed a once in a century chance through the 2010s to borrow at negative interest rates and invest in productive infrastructure.

Labour was calling for that throughout the decade. The Tories ignored it. And we are now where we are.

This is not fixable over 3 years. It's going to take 20 years of sensible Government after 2024 to repair the insanity of the past decade and a half.

Listen next week to Rachel Reeves set out a sane long term plan to start repairi g the damage.

[Panda]

Bloke moaning about the NHS wanted more patients to be sent to the NHS.

 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Read this thread and think about the b*llocks that the Tories have talked about economics while f**king up the economy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1573385305339858944

[SydneyRover]

''We hold all the cards''

[Glyn_Wigley]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

I didn’t like austerity. It is based on this fallacy that there is a finite amount of money in the world and that you have to take it from one place to have more in another.

Although, that same logic is applying now with those opposing tax cuts.

You can print as much money as you like but it'll be increasingly worth less unless the gold reserves supporting it increases at the same rate.

[Colemans Left Hook]

And to think brown sold off all the yellow stuff.   for peanuts

[River Don]

And to think brown sold off all the yellow stuff.   for peanuts

...and yet Truss and Kwarteng are telling us the last 12 years have been a failure and they want to focus on growth instead. Which is exactly the objective Gordon Brown had before Osbourne put a stop to it.

It's a funny old world.

[SydneyRover]

And to think brown sold off all the yellow stuff.   for peanuts

Compare it to all the brown stuff the tories have been selling off the past 12 years.

[drfchound]

So does that make Browns decision a good one back then?

[wilts rover]

So does that make Browns decision a good one back then?

What's the point in having money in a safe if you want it to benefit the country? Gold reserves are only a benefit when you sell them.

[ncRover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

I didn’t like austerity. It is based on this fallacy that there is a finite amount of money in the world and that you have to take it from one place to have more in another.

Although, that same logic is applying now with those opposing tax cuts.

You can print as much money as you like but it'll be increasingly worth less unless the gold reserves supporting it increases at the same rate.

Exactly. Money is made through growing an economy, not printing it. A rich person paying less tax doesn’t mean that that is less money for a poorer person in a free market society.

We focus too much on how to divide the pie rather than how to make it bigger.

Look at Singapore / Switzerland as economies and societies.

[tyke1962]

Unconfirmed reports that following yesterday's mini budget letters from disgruntled Tory MP's have reached Graham Brady .

[Panda]

Why wasn't fuel duty cut or even mentioned?

Cutting fuel duty would have led to everyone benefitting and not just the wealthy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

I didn’t like austerity. It is based on this fallacy that there is a finite amount of money in the world and that you have to take it from one place to have more in another.

Although, that same logic is applying now with those opposing tax cuts.

You can print as much money as you like but it'll be increasingly worth less unless the gold reserves supporting it increases at the same rate.

Exactly. Money is made through growing an economy, not printing it. A rich person paying less tax doesn’t mean that that is less money for a poorer person in a free market society.

We focus too much on how to divide the pie rather than how to make it bigger.

Look at Singapore / Switzerland as economies and societies.

Labour has had text ook economic policies for 30 years on how to make the pie bigger. It's been the past 12 years under this shit shower that growth has collapsed.

And you absolutely don't get real, sustained growth back by pouring money into already rich pockets.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Why wasn't fuel duty cut or even mentioned?

Cutting fuel duty would have led to everyone benefitting and not just the wealthy.

Not those that done buy fuel. We need to reduce fuel use not increase it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just imagine the reaction if a Labour Chancellor had presented a new fiscal plan, with zero attempt to have an independent costing, and the markets had reacted by the Pound dropping 4% and the interest rate that Govt pays on debt increasing by the most in a single day for 31 years.

Just close your eyes and try to imagine it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, since the hedge funders on the far right of the Tory party appear to have made a killing yesterday shorting British debt, might as well try to make a few Bob out of this shit show.

11/4 that Truss is booted out by the Tory party before the next election.

[Filo]

About right

[drfchound]

Just imagine the reaction if a Labour Chancellor had presented a new fiscal plan, with zero attempt to have an independent costing, and the markets had reacted by the Pound dropping 4% and the interest rate that Govt pays on debt increasing by the most in a single day for 31 years.

Just close your eyes and try to imagine it.

I did try what you said.
It turned out that it was just the same but with different people of another persuasion having a pop at a different Party.

[ncRover]

What would Labour have done differently over the last 3 years to put the economy in a better place now? Not a jibe just curious if there’s an answer I’m missing.

They wouldn't have let the economy get into the state it was 3 years ago because of Tory austerity in the first place.

I didn’t like austerity. It is based on this fallacy that there is a finite amount of money in the world and that you have to take it from one place to have more in another.

Although, that same logic is applying now with those opposing tax cuts.

You can print as much money as you like but it'll be increasingly worth less unless the gold reserves supporting it increases at the same rate.

Exactly. Money is made through growing an economy, not printing it. A rich person paying less tax doesn’t mean that that is less money for a poorer person in a free market society.

We focus too much on how to divide the pie rather than how to make it bigger.

Look at Singapore / Switzerland as economies and societies.

Labour has had text ook economic policies for 30 years on how to make the pie bigger. It's been the past 12 years under this shit shower that growth has collapsed.

And you absolutely don't get real, sustained growth back by pouring money into already rich pockets.

Johnson’s government was not economically conservative.

Then before that there was Brexit ( I didn’t vote for that )

Ireland have shot up on the Human Development Index, and Switzerland are top. Both conservative / libertarian economically.

[Jonathan]

Just imagine the reaction if a Labour Chancellor had presented a new fiscal plan, with zero attempt to have an independent costing, and the markets had reacted by the Pound dropping 4% and the interest rate that Govt pays on debt increasing by the most in a single day for 31 years.

Just close your eyes and try to imagine it.

I did try what you said.
It turned out that it was just the same but with different people of another persuasion having a pop at a different Party.

I don’t think that’s quite accurate outside the echo chambers of this forum / social media in general. I must admit I haven’t looked at the papers, but if this had been under a Labour Government then the heads of the Labour front bench would’ve been superimposed on vegetables and steaming piles of shit on the front page of The Sun and The Mail. I’m going to guess that’s not how it is, and this is being positioned as more of a bold gamble to ‘slash’ taxes and put more money in ‘your’ pocket.

[Jonathan]

I’ve just walked past a shop. It’s actually worse than I expected. The Mail is hailing “at last a true Tory budget” and The Sun funds some space to celebrate tax cuts alongside its obligatory front page slamming Meghan Markle just for being alive. #bekind

There is absolutely no way that this budget would have received that reaction had it come from a Labour government (not that it would).

[BigH]

Not so much a budget as an ideological 'spasm'.

I was going to use the term 'wet dream' but that would have been coarse...

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not sure people have truly taken in what the effect of Truss/Kwarteng is going to be.

The markets are now expecting the BoE to increase base rate to 5% next year.

That means you're looking at mortgage rates of 7.5%, even for people with a low loan-to-value percentage - more for folk with a small deposit.

Think about what that means for someone with, say, a £150k mortgage who has been used to paying 2.5% interest.

Their payments next year are going to go up by £7500!

No way on God's earth are tax cuts or growth going to make a dent in that.

This economic policy is absolutely mental. It's going to cause carnage for precisely the Middle Englanders that the Tories need to have onside if they are going to win.

If Truss really is a sleeper agent with a mission to destroy the Tory party, she could hardly do it more effectively.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Surely you'd just extend the term?  Anyone on a fix should be looking to do that now and pay the money in to a savings account of some form.

It will be interesting to see what labour propose.  It appears they wouldn't reverse the cuts to 19% and national insurance but the 45% cut they would. Not sure that their policies are that much radically different from what I've heard so far.