truss

[danumdon]

For me everyone gets bonuses or noone gets them, if and when they do the whole staff gets them as a percentage of their salary (the same %) from the CEO to the cleaners.

Unbelievably backward and inverse thinking, similar to rewarding every kid at the school sports day for "participating" no losers here mentality.
If you have ever been in or ran a business you would appreciate that you require individuals to step up and do above and beyond to achieve a profitable and successful company, otherwise what is the point.

Bonuses are to be paid for performance that has been above and beyond the required level that the individual is expected top perform at. If he achieves his required level of competence then he is getting a wage or salary for that effort. If he achieves above and beyond then he deserves a bonus for superior performance which has resulted in the business achieving a better then expected return.

If this bonus was to be given to everyone regardless of their individual achievements or even hitting their minimum requirements then where would the business be, why would employees bother trying to strive to achieve?

This is how the company i work for operate, their in business to generate profit, and reward excellence not some"lets give everyone a pay rise and a big bonus because we are nice people and we are all winners.

Life has always had winners and losers, strivers and shirkers. its what differentiates us from your average mammal.

Sounds like proper socialist dogma which ends up with the company going bust.

Bit too Thatcheresque for me but each to their own .

If Thatcher was all about rewarding those who went the extra mile to ensure everone else managed to get a bonus then i dont see an issue with that.

That's not what you originally posted .

You'll have to excuse me then, because that's exactly what i thought i was referring to.

Let me explain from my companies point of view (im sure many companies are very similar)

We have staff in certain roles that are defined by their job roles, skills and competencies, by definition them doing very well in their roles increases the overall profit return for the company(not all staff are in the same position of authority with a responsibility for growth, development and leadership). By completing their roles to a standard way above what is normally expected of someone in that role they have earned themselves a very decent bonus. more so by creating this growth they have also enabled the rest of the workforce to achieve above what was originally agreed in the PDR's this has resulted in them also achieving a good bonus, not as big as the former but nevertheless a very good bonus that is additional to their salary.

What im basically referring to is that some staff have a higher responsibility to enable the business to achieve, if they do well then overall everyone does well.

[SydneyRover]

For me everyone gets bonuses or noone gets them, if and when they do the whole staff gets them as a percentage of their salary (the same %) from the CEO to the cleaners.

Unbelievably backward and inverse thinking, similar to rewarding every kid at the school sports day for "participating" no losers here mentality.
If you have ever been in or ran a business you would appreciate that you require individuals to step up and do above and beyond to achieve a profitable and successful company, otherwise what is the point.

Bonuses are to be paid for performance that has been above and beyond the required level that the individual is expected top perform at. If he achieves his required level of competence then he is getting a wage or salary for that effort. If he achieves above and beyond then he deserves a bonus for superior performance which has resulted in the business achieving a better then expected return.

If this bonus was to be given to everyone regardless of their individual achievements or even hitting their minimum requirements then where would the business be, why would employees bother trying to strive to achieve?

This is how the company i work for operate, their in business to generate profit, and reward excellence not some"lets give everyone a pay rise and a big bonus because we are nice people and we are all winners.

Life has always had winners and losers, strivers and shirkers. its what differentiates us from your average mammal.

Sounds like proper socialist dogma which ends up with the company going bust.

both

[BillyStubbsTears]

You want to know why Kwarteng refuses to publish the OBR's predictions of the effect of today's mini-Budget?

Here's Torsten Bell of the independent Resolution Foundation in Parliament yesterday. They have looked at the likely financial effect. This is what he had to say.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1572965311762112517

What the Tories are going to do today is the single most disgraceful, shameless political act in my lifetime. They are going for a crazy boom to try to ram money into people's pockets in time for the next Election. But it is totally unsustainable. It will do massive damage to the economy for many years. And they know damn well, and they will do it anyway.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Let's see what they say.  All feels a gamble and a bit reckless to me.  Continually building more and more debt feels reckless and burying our heads in the sand that it's fine to just ignore it, it isn't.

Some of you on the left of politics shouldn't forget though that you've wanted more spending etc for a very long time.  Now of course it will be the wrong type of spending.

I do think the whole world economy is slightly hampered by the dollar strength and there doesn't seem to be much conversation about why we continue to use the dollar in so many worldwide transactions.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the record, I entirely agree that we desperately need stronger growth. Been saying that ever since the Austerity disaster. But the way to do that is by Govt investment in high quality education, training and capital infrastructure. Not giving away billions to people who already have plenty.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

For the record, I entirely agree that we desperately need stronger growth. Been saying that ever since the Austerity disaster. But the way to do that is by Govt investment in high quality education, training and capital infrastructure. Not giving away billions to people who already have plenty.

I agree actually listening to the statement this morning.

45% tax cut - utterly unnecessary.
20% cut to 19% - fine with that to a point though I still preferred increasing the tax thresholds.
NI Cut - should never have been done in the first place, fix the tax policy as a whole.
Stamp duty changes - can see the logic given interest rates, seems sensible enough.
CT hold - massive for businesses actually and that's one that can stimulate growth so seems sensible.
Enterprise zones - make good sense on paper, be interesting to see the details and if it helps unlock the potential of areas like ours.

Overall the handouts are too generic, they don't necessarily stimulate growth all that well and I doubt they'll work personally.  All I see some of it doing is enabling those who are better off to cream more money from the higher interest rates.  I'm not at all sure it's targeted enough.  Rishi Sunak was wrong to want to put bigger tax increases in, Liz Truss has took it too far.

[River Don]

I'm still wondering how we can grow the economy without affordable energy.

[tommy toes]

Same old Tory policies.
The rich will get significantly richer
while Joe Soap will be expected to wring his cap in thanks for the crumbs off the table.

[ChrisBx]

This "mini budget" is completely bonkers and  will push already failing public services off a cliff.

[SydneyRover]

fingers x it can be turned around, it's a huge gamble if they are wrong and they have got it wrong for the past 12 years, for the majority that is

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2022/08/05/britain-a-services-superpower-sinking-into-stagnation/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20Britain%20is%20the%20result,economy%2C%20society%2C%20and%20democracy.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Some of the detail is very interesting though.  The investment zones offer a significant opportunity for business growth in the UK and should make it quite an attractive place to do business in theory.  This probably the best part of the announcement for me.  Interesting to note our area (SYCMA) is one of the areas involved.

Businesses in designated areas in investment zones will benefit from 100% business rates relief on newly occupied and expanded premises. Local authorities hosting Investment Zones will receive 100% of the business rates growth above an agreed baseline in designated sites for 25 years.

In addition businesses will receive full stamp duty land tax relief on land bought for commercial or residential development and a zero rate for Employer National Insurance contributions on new employee earnings up to £50,270 per year.

To incentivise investment there will be a 100% first year enhanced capital allowance relief for plant and machinery used within designated sites and accelerated Enhanced Structures and Buildings Allowance relief of 20% per year.

[River Don]

BFYP, Would you be investing in a nation where energy bills are unaffordable and unpredictable?

The trouble is the tax breaks are dwarfed by the cost of energy.

[SydneyRover]

Pud, why don't you look at their record with business zones and get back to us with your findings.

[River Don]

The government is fighting against the Bank of England here. The Bank raised rates to try and slow the economy, probably engineering a recession in a futile attempt to control inflation... Whilst the government loses its mind and goes all in for growth!

This is nuts.

[BillyStubbsTears]

"45% tax cut - utterly unnecessary.
20% cut to 19% - fine with that to a point though I still preferred increasing the tax thresholds.
NI Cut - should never have been done in the first place, fix the tax policy as a whole.
Stamp duty changes - can see the logic given interest rates, seems sensible enough."

These make absolutely zero sense in a macroeconomic situation where the key problem is an external supply shock. Cutting taxes gets the economy going when you have a demand problem but they do nothing when the economy is hit by a supply/prices shock [1].

No, actually, they don't do "nothing". They do something. They put more money into people's pockets to spend, which pushes inflation higher and requires the BoE to ramp up interest rates to curb inflation.

And that's before you factor in that these tax cuts are massively skewed towards the already wealthy.

Long term this is absolutely unsustainable. Long term it will cause huge damage which will require very tough decisions to correct. But they are not interested in the long term. Just on pouring petrol on a boom to make people feel good before the next election. Because that's all the Tories have.


[1] And here is the irony. Cutting taxes is precisely the right thing to do in a demand slump recession. When people are worried about losing their jobs, they stop spending, so firms don't sell, so people lose their jobs and firms don't invest and the economy at best stagnates. That was precisely the problem after the GFC and the correct solution was things like slashing VAT to make things cheaper for people to buy. The Tories put 5% on VAT within weeks of being elected in 2010, precisely at the time that they should have been cutting taxes. Now they are cutting taxes precisely at the time they shouldn't.

[tommy toes]

Yes the Tories have got all of this arse about face.
The policies they're going with now would have made sense from 2010 onwards, at a time of low inflation and interest rates.
This would have produced growth and left us in a far better position to deal with the issues from covid and Ukraine.
Now it looks like financial suicide 

[SydneyRover]

bst
''Long term this is absolutely unsustainable. Long term it will cause huge damage which will require very tough decisions to correct. But they are not interested in the long term. Just on pouring petrol on a boom to make people feel good before the next election. Because that's all the Tories have''

maybe this is part of the thinking that if labour want to offer a sensible option they will cry their usual shit of ..........

[Redroy]

"45% tax cut - utterly unnecessary.
20% cut to 19% - fine with that to a point though I still preferred increasing the tax thresholds.
NI Cut - should never have been done in the first place, fix the tax policy as a whole.
Stamp duty changes - can see the logic given interest rates, seems sensible enough."

These make absolutely zero sense in a macroeconomic situation where the key problem is an external supply shock. Cutting taxes gets the economy going when you have a demand problem but they do nothing when the economy is hit by a supply/prices shock [1].

No, actually, they don't do "nothing". They do something. They put more money into people's pockets to spend, which pushes inflation higher and requires the BoE to ramp up interest rates to curb inflation.

And that's before you factor in that these tax cuts are massively skewed towards the already wealthy.

Long term this is absolutely unsustainable. Long term it will cause huge damage which will require very tough decisions to correct. But they are not interested in the long term. Just on pouring petrol on a boom to make people feel good before the next election. Because that's all the Tories have.


[1] And here is the irony. Cutting taxes is precisely the right thing to do in a demand slump recession. When people are worried about losing their jobs, they stop spending, so firms don't sell, so people lose their jobs and firms don't invest and the economy at best stagnates. That was precisely the problem after the GFC and the correct solution was things like slashing VAT to make things cheaper for people to buy. The Tories put 5% on VAT within weeks of being elected in 2010, precisely at the time that they should have been cutting taxes. Now they are cutting taxes precisely at the time they shouldn't.

Add on to all of this that they've been arguing against pay increases for people on much lower incomes than those paying the 45% rate because it's inflationary it's some obviously disingenuous. I don't think the average person is going to take them taking the piss out of them so much and so obviously to their faces.

A lot of middle class people are going to be deep in the shit when they have to re-fix their mortgage - like millions of people. Going to be insane.

[Filo]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

[Redroy]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye - and not just that, a lot of f**king pain to come for others' benefit.

[Ldr]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

[Panda]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

Given a choice, i'd rather be earning 150k a year and paying high tax than earning 22k a year and paying low tax.

[Filo]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

[Ldr]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

[Filo]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

That is my point

[Ldr]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

That is my point

Then we agree, today is all about buttering up Tory support

[Filo]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

That is my point

Then we agree, today is all about buttering up Tory support

Not in the red wall seats though

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

That is my point

What actually is your point? Are you wanting more benefits?  What are you wanting the government to do?

[Redroy]

People earning below the tax threshold are getting f**k all benefit!

Aye, they don’t share the tax burden either

The Tories used to brag about taking more people out of taxation, it’s not their fault they are not taxed on their income, as I say getting f**k all help while the well off get plenty of help

I think your are missing the point Filo, no question you are right, but a statement about taxes wasn’t really going to affect these people

That is my point

What actually is your point? Are you wanting more benefits?  What are you wanting the government to do?

Stuff that doesn't mean we pay for the structural failures that have caused the energy crisis rather than firms making massive profits. And then at the same time introduce enormous tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the most wealthy, exacerbating inflationary pressures whilst actively fighting pay increases for people on the grounds that they are inflationary. And then the inevitable of interest rate rises f**king over many homeowners who are going to struggle to pay their mortgages and risk another property crash. Just a few things there anyway of what NOT to do.

[albie]

For those who like a graph to summarise the mini-budget, here is one from EiE;
https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/status/1573279779125690368/photo/1

Go on then, explain why this is reasonable in the middle of a cost of living crisis?