truss

[Bristol Red Rover]

Options for Tories are:
Falling to third place in the next GE.
Choosing another leader, and looking weak flip floppy.
Bringing Johnson back.
Calling a GE asap.

You've missed out the most obvious option, that I outlined above.

Problem there is it making them look weak, Truss looking more looney than ever. And with that, deffo 3rd place next election. I'd love to see that but a bridge too far?

[tyke1962]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

[drfchound]

Well BRR has put a case forward for having a GE which could be credible if the Tory’s were happy to lose a GE but with a longer term plan to win the following one.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

No there isn't.

There only has to be an early GE if Parliament cannot find a PM who can command a majority.

If Parliament votes No Confidence in Truss, but is prepared to support, say, Sunak or Mordaunt, there's no need to have a GE.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Options for Tories are:
Falling to third place in the next GE.
Choosing another leader, and looking weak flip floppy.
Bringing Johnson back.
Calling a GE asap.

You've missed out the most obvious option, that I outlined above.

Problem there is it making them look weak, Truss looking more looney than ever. And with that, deffo 3rd place next election. I'd love to see that but a bridge too far?

I know all the consequences but it's still the least worst option for them.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

No there isn't.

There only has to be an early GE if Parliament cannot find a PM who can command a majority.

If Parliament votes No Confidence in Truss, but is prepared to support, say, Sunak or Mordaunt, there's no need to have a GE.

Parliament doesn't have votes of confidence in the PM, but in the Government as a whole.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

No there isn't.

There only has to be an early GE if Parliament cannot find a PM who can command a majority.

If Parliament votes No Confidence in Truss, but is prepared to support, say, Sunak or Mordaunt, there's no need to have a GE.

Parliament doesn't have votes of confidence in the PM, but in the Government as a whole.

Yes that's technically correct, but it is the PM's Government. The PM is the leader of the Govt and by far the most powerful person in it. A VONC in the Govt is basically Parliament saying they want a change of leadership.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

So why didn't this 'only one outcome' happen when the Tories didn't support Boris? Because it doesn't work like that.

The backbenchers will tell Truss what policies they will vote for. Either she goes along with them and her government limps on or she resigns - which means a new Tory leader without a General Election. Again.

Just because a Government loses a vote in the Commons it doesn't mean a General Election - otherwise we'd have had a General Election every time May lost yet another Brexit vote because her own backbenchers voted against her.

Oh, btw, the first option when there is true paralysis would be the monarch asking if there was someone else in the Commons who would be able to govern with a majority. In this case maybe Sunak could - they don't even have to be an elected party leader, just be able to get MPs to vote for their legislation in the Commons. Not a General Election.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

No there isn't.

There only has to be an early GE if Parliament cannot find a PM who can command a majority.

If Parliament votes No Confidence in Truss, but is prepared to support, say, Sunak or Mordaunt, there's no need to have a GE.

Parliament doesn't have votes of confidence in the PM, but in the Government as a whole.

Yes that's technically correct, but it is the PM's Government. The PM is the leader of the Govt and by far the most powerful person in it. A VONC in the Govt is basically Parliament saying they want a change of leadership.

No it isn't. It's the Commons saying they have no confidence in the Government, exactly as it says on the tin. Tory backbenchers will support a Government even if they don't support a particular PM. That's the difference.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It IS possible that a GE comes out of this disaster.

I get the impression that Tory MPs know that they cannot ditch Truss and go to another contested leadership battle. That would mean no PM this side of the New Year. If they do that, they'll never get in power again. It would be a humiliation and abdication of responsibility for the ages. The sort of thing history books would talk about in 500 years time as one of the Great Disasters.

So they need to have someone who a majority of them can get behind and replace Truss immediately, without a contested campaign.

But who?
Sunak and Javid are hated by Team Johnson as the ones who betrayed their leader. Mordaunt is totally untested. Braverman and Badenoch are absolute batshit far-right, bordering on fascists.

So it is possible that they can't agree on anyone. In which case, it's not unfeasible that there's no majority for any Govt in the House and there has to be a GE.

I still think it's unlikely. If there's a GE now, the Tories would lose 250 seats. 2 years of someone like Sunak at the helm might give an air of stability an limit their eventual loss to 100 seats. I assume there's enough level headed Tory MPs to realise that. But I could be wrong.

[SydneyRover]

Kwasi being cut adrift ..... The Times

[BillyStubbsTears]

Smells like a GE coming to me .

Really? Can you smell who it is that's going to make it happen too? Because the people who want one can't make one happen and the people who can make it happen don't want one.

It's called paralysis , the leader can't govern because she's no longer got a majority .

There's only one outcome in such situations .

No there isn't.

There only has to be an early GE if Parliament cannot find a PM who can command a majority.

If Parliament votes No Confidence in Truss, but is prepared to support, say, Sunak or Mordaunt, there's no need to have a GE.

Parliament doesn't have votes of confidence in the PM, but in the Government as a whole.

Yes that's technically correct, but it is the PM's Government. The PM is the leader of the Govt and by far the most powerful person in it. A VONC in the Govt is basically Parliament saying they want a change of leadership.

No it isn't. It's the Commons saying they have no confidence in the Government, exactly as it says on the tin. Tory backbenchers will support a Government even if they don't support a particular PM. That's the difference.

I think we're in angels on pinheads territory here.

I agree that a VONC doesn't necessarily result in a GE.

It does, by definition, lead to a change of Govt. And in almost every conceivable situation, that would mean a change of PM.

A VONC right now would be on the issue of whether the House had confidence in a Govt led by Truss. In practice it would be a vote on whether the House had confidence in her as PM.

[mugnapper]

Reports that Kamikwasi is being sacked right now and Truss will be reversing the mini budget this afternoon

[Ldr]

What’s the criteria for a recall petition? Could it be done in multiple constituencies?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There is no way back from the tories.  Boris had his faults but they were better off with him than without.  Truss does not at all have what it takes.

[SydneyRover]

''Unlike recall procedures in some other countries, the act does not allow constituents to initiate proceedings. Instead, proceedings are initiated only if an MP is found guilty of a wrongdoing that fulfils certain criteria. This petition is successful if at least one in ten voters in the constituency sign. Successful petitions force the recalled MP to vacate the seat, resulting in a by-election.

To date, three petitions have been made under the act; two of these received sufficient signatures to trigger a by-election''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_of_MPs_Act_2015#:~:text=This%20petition%20is%20successful%20if,to%20trigger%20a%20by%2Delection.

Not for incompetence unfortunately

[Filo]

Reports that Kamikwasi is being sacked right now and Truss will be reversing the mini budget this afternoon

Not a bad few weeks for him financially, crashed the pound so his mate that has him on a retainer can make a fortune, he’ll get a pay off from his ministerial role, and f**ked Truss twice now one physically and one literally

[SydneyRover]

There is no way back from the tories.  Boris had his faults but they were better off with him than without.  Truss does not at all have what it takes.

He did have that charisma thingy that many signed up to, but it's very debatable whether he was better for the country.

johnson broke every rule and convention that got in his way, truss is breaking the bank.

[mugnapper]

Names being touted to replace Kamikwasi are Simon Clarke and, wait for it, Theresa Coffey. Is that 5he same Ms  Coffey that told nurses yesterday, that if they didn't like their below inflation pay offer , they could leave the NHS?
That'll get Waiting Lists down.

[ravenrover]

How many Tory  "rebels" who know they aren't going to re elected will it take to swing a Parliamentary VONC in the Oppositions favour?
Javid is another name added to replace Kami

[Filo]

What is clear is that Truss is not in control, she publicly backed the Chancellor, she has to fall on her sword and go, A General Election is the only way out of this mess

[SydneyRover]

He's gone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So
When does that post-Johnson bounce kick in?

[tommy toes]

Latest is that a group of 'senior tories'
are determined to get rid of Truss and it will be very difficult for her to survive it.

[mugnapper]

Jeremy Hunt to be named Chancellor according to the guy who broke the Kwasi sacking story.

[tommy toes]

Interesting that in his letter, confirming he was sacked, he says he's sorry that he could not continue with HER policies.

[normal rules]

That will be 4 chancellors in 4 months .
Staff turnover akin to Mac Donald’s.

[mugnapper]

That will be 4 chancellors in 4 months .
Staff turnover akin to Mac Donald’s.

I wonder who'll be next month's Chancellor?

[mugnapper]

Hunt confirmed as this month's Chancellor.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Little microcosm of how utterly lacking in any spine or honesty some in the Tory party are.

Greg Hands was on R4 this morning. He campaigned for Sunak in the summer and (correctly) said Truss's economic plans would bring carnage to the financial markets.

Then Truss won and offered him a ministerial position. He took it.

This morning, he was saying how much he supported Truss's economic policies. How they were right for the country. He said Truss and Kwarteng were in lockstep together.

Within 4 hours, Kwarteng's fired and they are just about to ditch Truss's economic policies.