Cannabis.

[mugnapper]

BBC News - Make cannabis Class A drug, say Conservative police commissioners
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63115171

Conservative Police Commissioners recommend cannabis should be reclassified to a Category A drug.

What are your thoughts?

Mine are that it's a bit late for that, the horse has well and truly bolted.

How many more police would be needed to enforce it and how many more prisons would have to be built?

I've never been into druggy drugs but love a drug called alcohol.

How much do alcohol related crimes cost the country compared to cannabis  related crimes?

I'll be interested to see if this goes anywhere.

What do you chaps think?

[Filo]

Should be banned for the stink it creates if for nothing else, makes me feel sick

[phil old leake]

Has you say napper it would be unworkable

It’s so rife it couldn’t be policed.  Living in NI I sometimes go into Belfast and you can smell it on the street.  The police wouldn’t be able to police it.  Some forces play lip service to it anyway on a personal use basis

I raised this awhile ago after I’d been to New York. I would definitely not relax the situation any more having seen the effect it has had there

[Panda]

Should be legalized.

Most violent crime, anti social behaviour and idiocy is caused by ALCOHOL.

A lot of people use cannabis for medicinal purposes as they are unable to find alternatives for pain relief etc and / or are let down by the NHS who don't take their conditions seriously.

A lot of people use it to destress or find space from the pressure of life but without resorting to crimes etc.

A lot of people use it to help with unaddressed mental health issues. Again. NHS. Without wanting this to turn into a NHS bashing session as i'm sure the likes of Ldr will point out.

There is evidence that long term use of cannabis does cause mental health problems yes, but i'd guess that many users already have mental health conditions and are using it to mask them or to ameliorate them in the first place, due to their being no help at all available to them.

No mention of the mental health problems caused by Covid measures which would dwarf those caused by long term cannabis use. Just using that as a example to highlight that the risks of serious mental health problems with long term cannabis use when compared to many other of lifes pressures is negligible.

My only rule should be that cannabis is not smoked in a public place.

Cannabis is often linked as a gateway drug to more serious drugs but of the people i know who have used cannabis long term, this hasn't happened. They use cannabis for the reasons given above and have not felt the need to progress to other harder drugs.

[mugnapper]

My next door neighbour has 2 little girls, so his wife made him smoke it in his garage.
All went well till he unknowingly dropped some red hot ash on the chair he sat on in his garage and it went up in flames, igniting the bottle of propane he used for his barbecue.
That was a lively Sunday Evening with flames, an explosion and 2 fire engines.
The twit got a brand new garage out of it on the Insurance!

[ravenrover]

Should be legalized.

Most violent crime, anti social behaviour and idiocy is caused by ALCOHOL.

A lot of people use cannabis for medicinal purposes as they are unable to find alternatives for pain relief etc and / or are let down by the NHS who don't take their conditions seriously.

A lot of people use it to destress or find space from the pressure of life but without resorting to crimes etc.

A lot of people use it to help with unaddressed mental health issues. Again. NHS. Without wanting this to turn into a NHS bashing session as i'm sure the likes of Ldr will point out.

There is evidence that long term use of cannabis does cause mental health problems yes, but i'd guess that many users already have mental health conditions and are using it to mask them or to ameliorate them in the first place, due to their being no help at all available to them.

No mention of the mental health problems caused by Covid measures which would dwarf those caused by long term cannabis use. Just using that as a example to highlight that the risks of serious mental health problems with long term cannabis use when compared to many other of lifes pressures is negligible.

My only rule should be that cannabis is not smoked in a public place.

Cannabis is often linked as a gateway drug to more serious drugs but of the people i know who have used cannabis long term, this hasn't happened. They use cannabis for the reasons given above and have not felt the need to progress to other harder drugs.

Are you a regular user then Handshake? You've described yourself with all those symptoms, according to what you post on here?

[Panda]

No Raven. Not a user. I had a spliff whilst walking from Cusworth to Sproggy once when i was about 15 and that's pretty much it. Thing with drugs is that once you've taken them, you don't know what to expect.

Which is why i'll never understand for the life of me my mates when we used to go out in the 90's and they'd be buying tabs and allsorts from random blokes in clubs and i'd always refuse. You've no idea what could be in these things and yet people are prepared just to put them into their bodies.

I just think that cannabis users don't pose much of a risk to the public generally speaking when compared to harder drugs and booze.

[roversdude]

I was in California earlier this year and San Francisco stunk of it. Licensed distributors but supposedly not allowed to smoke in public or city owned spaces. Don’t know what the penalty was for breaking those laws.
Does the Netherlands have a problem with stoners
Genuine questions
Personally speaking the harder drugs, I’d give them as much as they want free and it might stop the crime.

[Ldr]

Should be legalized.

Most violent crime, anti social behaviour and idiocy is caused by ALCOHOL.

A lot of people use cannabis for medicinal purposes as they are unable to find alternatives for pain relief etc and / or are let down by the NHS who don't take their conditions seriously.

A lot of people use it to destress or find space from the pressure of life but without resorting to crimes etc.

A lot of people use it to help with unaddressed mental health issues. Again. NHS. Without wanting this to turn into a NHS bashing session as i'm sure the likes of Ldr will point out.

There is evidence that long term use of cannabis does cause mental health problems yes, but i'd guess that many users already have mental health conditions and are using it to mask them or to ameliorate them in the first place, due to their being no help at all available to them.

No mention of the mental health problems caused by Covid measures which would dwarf those caused by long term cannabis use. Just using that as a example to highlight that the risks of serious mental health problems with long term cannabis use when compared to many other of lifes pressures is negligible.

My only rule should be that cannabis is not smoked in a public place.

Cannabis is often linked as a gateway drug to more serious drugs but of the people i know who have used cannabis long term, this hasn't happened. They use cannabis for the reasons given above and have not felt the need to progress to other harder drugs.

Couldn’t agree more

[mugnapper]

Apparently 15% of the Uk population are smokers, which brings in £10 - 12 billion in direct taxation.
I wonder how many people smoke cannabis and how much taxing it would bring in.

[BobG]

Legalising is a tough argument. On the plus side are things like:

- tax revenue
- removal of a large burden on the police
- huge reduction in all sorts of crime from smuggling to breaking and entering and robbery to using
- ability to monitor the quality of substance sold which, in theory at least, ought to lead to improvements in health and reductions in cheap shit being sold  that maims

But on the other hand there are some serious drawbacks too:

- an open door to moving on to other drugs
- possible growth in user numbers - what impact would that have on driving whilst under the influence?
- more repeat smokers and their detritus around and about
- hypothetical, but once something is allowed, it is almost impossible to reverse. Would another drug come to be legalised in the fullness of time?

The Dutch seem to have made it work though. I wonder if Dutch Uncle has any views about that?

Reducing crime is a big plus for me. Taxation is a so-so benefit because we all know now exactly what would happen to the revenue raised.

BobG

[ncRover]

I think that’s quite an archaic view. Who are the police to say what an individual can do with their own consciousness?

People don’t not smoke weed because it’s illegal. As Panda pointed out above, alcohol causes WAY more societal problems than cannabis.

Although, I personally think that people should be educated on how to use it properly and why people may use it.

In people with pre-existing mental health problems, smoking / ingesting it can exacerbate these. In young people and those with a genetic predisposition, long term smoking can increase the risk of psychosis and schizophrenia diagnosis. I used to smoke it probably once a week until it gave me a massive panic attack one day and haven’t touched it since.

That being said, some people are absolutely fine with it. In the Netherlands, I’m pretty sure if you go in to a coffee shop you can see the % of CBD and THC so that you know exactly what you’re taking. Perhaps a bad strain unknowingly taken can have more negative outcomes.

[mugnapper]

Wow!!
A contentious subject that has had a dozen replies and no one has abused anybody else’s opinion, just engaged in the discussion.

Is the Off Topic forum broken lol???

[River Don]

In tightening up on cannabis the UK would be moving in the opposite direction to most of the western world. I can't see it happening.

[normal rules]

Anyone suggesting legalising it would lessen a burden on police need to re think.
Drug related car accidents and injuries and deaths would go through the roof.
Drug drive is already a big issue.

[ncRover]

Anyone suggesting legalising it would lessen a burden on police need to re think.
Drug related car accidents and injuries and deaths would go through the roof.
Drug drive is already a big issue.

You are assuming that the only reason people don’t take drugs is because they are illegal.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Legalising is a tough argument. On the plus side are things like:

- tax revenue
- removal of a large burden on the police
- huge reduction in all sorts of crime from smuggling to breaking and entering and robbery to using
- ability to monitor the quality of substance sold which, in theory at least, ought to lead to improvements in health and reductions in cheap shit being sold  that maims

But on the other hand there are some serious drawbacks too:

- an open door to moving on to other drugs
- possible growth in user numbers - what impact would that have on driving whilst under the influence?
- more repeat smokers and their detritus around and about
- hypothetical, but once something is allowed, it is almost impossible to reverse. Would another drug come to be legalised in the fullness of time?

The Dutch seem to have made it work though. I wonder if Dutch Uncle has any views about that?

Reducing crime is a big plus for me. Taxation is a so-so benefit because we all know now exactly what would happen to the revenue raised.

BobG

Those two work in opposition to each other, you can't have both.

If you tax it, it will still be smuggled. If you tax it, it will cost more to buy than it does now and therefore there will be an increase in crime to pay for it.

[River Don]

Legalising is a tough argument. On the plus side are things like:

- tax revenue
- removal of a large burden on the police
- huge reduction in all sorts of crime from smuggling to breaking and entering and robbery to using
- ability to monitor the quality of substance sold which, in theory at least, ought to lead to improvements in health and reductions in cheap shit being sold  that maims

But on the other hand there are some serious drawbacks too:

- an open door to moving on to other drugs
- possible growth in user numbers - what impact would that have on driving whilst under the influence?
- more repeat smokers and their detritus around and about
- hypothetical, but once something is allowed, it is almost impossible to reverse. Would another drug come to be legalised in the fullness of time?

The Dutch seem to have made it work though. I wonder if Dutch Uncle has any views about that?

Reducing crime is a big plus for me. Taxation is a so-so benefit because we all know now exactly what would happen to the revenue raised.

BobG

Those two work in opposition to each other, you can't have both.

If you tax it, it will still be smuggled. If you tax it, it will cost more to buy than it does now and therefore there will be an increase in crime to pay for it.

There will be a natural level of taxation, where it's less hassle to pay than taking risks with illegality. The same as booze and tobacco.

[SydneyRover]

Portugal appears to have sorted a lot of it's drug problems by dealing with them as a health issue.

[BobG]

Portugal is an absolutely STUNNING success story.  Seriously, it's downright amazing, staggering, gob smackingly awesome what they have achieved,

BobG

[Glyn_Wigley]

Legalising is a tough argument. On the plus side are things like:

- tax revenue
- removal of a large burden on the police
- huge reduction in all sorts of crime from smuggling to breaking and entering and robbery to using
- ability to monitor the quality of substance sold which, in theory at least, ought to lead to improvements in health and reductions in cheap shit being sold  that maims

But on the other hand there are some serious drawbacks too:

- an open door to moving on to other drugs
- possible growth in user numbers - what impact would that have on driving whilst under the influence?
- more repeat smokers and their detritus around and about
- hypothetical, but once something is allowed, it is almost impossible to reverse. Would another drug come to be legalised in the fullness of time?

The Dutch seem to have made it work though. I wonder if Dutch Uncle has any views about that?

Reducing crime is a big plus for me. Taxation is a so-so benefit because we all know now exactly what would happen to the revenue raised.

BobG

Those two work in opposition to each other, you can't have both.

If you tax it, it will still be smuggled. If you tax it, it will cost more to buy than it does now and therefore there will be an increase in crime to pay for it.

There will be a natural level of taxation, where it's less hassle to pay than taking risks with illegality. The same as booze and tobacco.

They've never found it with tobacco and booze, they still get smuggled and sold cheaper than the taxed.

And that's not taking into account the counterfeit tobacco/booze industry.

[nightporter]

President Biden pardoning all prior federal offenses of simple marijuana possession.   https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1578097875480895489

[DonnyNoel]

I got into NFL/American Football for a while a few years ago. There's plenty of ex players who advocate its use medicinally over the more addictive high powered analgesics. I wonder if we'll see similar arguments in this country as we start to see ex footballers and rugby players start to be affected by similar effects of injuries. Perhaps people get too wrapped up in the stereotypical image of stoners to take the argument seriously.

I've never taken it, I've known a few people who take it from time to time harmlessly and a couple of people who have almost ruined themselves by taking it too often so I'm not sure about the effect of legalising it. It's an old book now but Ben Elton wrote a novel (High Society maybe?) about a politician who tried to legalise all drugs and some of the "pro" arguments were interesting.

As an aside to the point regarding alcohol, I do wonder if it was invented tomorrow would it be legalised? Drink driving, anti social behaviour, long term health problems...

[River Don]

If the recent experience of Japan is anything to go by then alcohol would be legal. Consumption of alcohol in Japan has fallen considerably, particularly amongst the young. It's reached the point where the Japanese government is looking at ways to actually promote alcohol to younger people. They want the tax revenue booze used to bring in.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/17/japan-government-launches-competition-to-get-people-drinking-alcohol-drinks-tax-revenue

[BobG]

Lol. Just tax whatever the young are doing instead!

BobG

[ChrisBx]

Weed absolutely should be legalised. The way the police and courts in the UK attempt to tackle drug use as a whole is comprehensively failing.

[les@donr]

Here in Canada it is legal to purchase Cannabis, 30mg/ml at a time. I suffer from Osteoarthritis in three places in my back. Taking liquid cannabis (which doesn't give me a high or the munches) has really helped to relieve the pain, and gives me a quality of life, that without the cannabis I would not have. Definitely recommend it.