Let's talk about the Rochdale game

[selby]

  I could just as well headline this game let's vent our spleen about the Rochdale game, wnting to say things that I find difficult to say about what is happening on the playing side of the club.
  As others have said our team is a direct result of player recruitment, many responsible not at the club now, and not all, in fact mostly little to do with some of the recent managers , and none at all to do with the present manager.
  For the next couple of games we have to go along with what we have got, that with injury unfortunately to some players we the fans think could have a big future in the game in Faulkner and Olowu are out injured so rob us of potential and looks like leaves us with not much.
   Even with Rochdale like ourselves really struggling, we cannot look forward with any confidence against a team containing Henderson, John, and Ebanks Landell, who would all probably improve our team and command a place every week.
  So where exactly do we go? our tactics if they are tactics are turgid to say the least, our players look completely incapable of implementing whatever tactics we are supposed to play at a pace that can ruffle the feathers of the opposition, no player looks capable of running past an opponent with the ball with the exception of Millar, who might see the ball no more than half a dozen times in a game, and has nobody near him to help him out.
   We constantly start an attack ten yards from our own goal line, the ball at the feet or in the hands of players until they were 17yrs old I bet never thought of doing anything else but kicking the ball long or catching it, and the actual thought process of what to do with the ball at their feet is visual to the spectators it takes so long to decide to pass it back  to the player who gave it him in the first place, as bigger problem to us as giving it the opposition.
  If it was not so important to us the supporters it would be comical, and for the management to not be seen to accept there are things the players we have cannot do, and persist for so long trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear is tantamount to being ignorant of all the problems we the supporters can see.
  As I have said we have a couple of games with what we have got, and I know in my own mind we can get better in if the club wants to, players that would not necessarily break the bank if some we have could be moved on or at least loaned out which might be the only alternative.
  These couple of games to me are the biggest test of the season, can the management come up with something that the players can get a tune out of, are the players bothered about their own well being and willing to put in performances that would be of football league standard and play for their future, some have shown little ambition of doing so for quite a while. If I was the manager I am afraid quite a few would already know  their future lay elsewhere.
  We have what we have, what team would you pick?
  No u21s, dare the management pick a couple of youngsters who have impressed him?
  Would you sign players in the window?
  Would you trust these players to keep us up and sign no one?
  What would attract you to the club again this season?
  Will our manager actually try something else tactically?
  Lots to discuss about this game, please have your say

[goalkick]

Back to snail pace with no midfield and miller on his own up front and head tennis with Williams.

[selby]

  I want to see change goalkick, I don't like banging ones head against a brick wall and fear our coaching team have got to that point with the players at their disposal, who are not suited one bit to the tactics being foisted on them.
  Yes I accept the standard of players we have are not of the standard we have had in the recent past, but are they as bad as the performances recently have shown.
  We have been made mugs of by some really poor form sides getting them back on track, and if reports of the Tranmere fans actually laughing and deriding our play is true then that is the ultimate insult.
  We are limited through injury to some of our better players as to the team we can field at the moment but even then in the case of Faulkner he would be unavailable being out on loan for as our marketing team says lack of technical ability and to improve that side of his game, that is something he should be doing here as the rest of his game is better than those playing, and those who publically pointed out his short comings are the same people who threw Williams on up front at Tranmere something I am still trying to come to terms with and work out.
  So what do I a mere supporter want to see tomorrow, well to start with no from me to you by three or four fairy celendines in our own area would be a start. Getting the ball forward at pace and players running at defenders with the ball at feet, and getting the ball in the oppositions area in front of goal would be a thrill not often seen of late.
  A management team that instigates a style of play that suits the players we have instead of foisting tactics on them that gives poor sides a chance of giving us a good hiding which is what has happened of late.
  I guess the question I am asking is how  bad are we really, or are we being made to look bad by self inflicted restrictions put on the players with the tactics imposed on them, I think a lot has to do with the latter myself.
  It hurts me to criticize people I know want success as much as I do, but the club is heading for crisis, when long standing supporters like Hound are questioning his support, a bloke who has forgotten more about football than some on the staff will ever know, the club are heading for trouble financially.
  One thing is for certain, things cannot go on as they are and expect the club to flourish, that point is long gone, a big reset on the field of play is the only way a positive result can reach a happy conclusion, and finding a system to suit the players we have here at this moment would be a start, and only the coaching/management team can do that and need to quickly.

[ravenrover]

The tactic of playing out from the back relies on the defenders being comfortable on the ball and midfielders making the space to receive the ball. Sadky players with that capability don't usually find themselves playing in a mid table 4th Division team, we have none of these types of players. For me revert to basics give support to George and move the ball at pace and row Z is always a good outlet when a defender is in trouble

[Cramby10]

Spot on. Excellent summary Selby.

[Campsall rover]

Agree Brian.

We are no where near as bad as some of our performances make us look.

The way we are playing is the problem. The system is not conducive to the players we have.
This is League 2 we are in. Keep it simple. It’s not rocket science.

No one can tell me that Mitchell, Knoyle, Faulkner, Anderson, Olowu, Rowe,
Biggins, Close, Hurst, Molyneux & Miller are not high standard players for this league.
Maxwell is lacking confidence at present but should be good enough at this level. Younger good back up CB/RB
Jones good back up Keeper.

Clayton legs have gone it would seem,
Taylor can’t stay fit and is a shadow of his former self.
Agard well not sure how good he is because he never plays him up front with Miller.
Griffiths, don’t know what to say about him, potential but yet to see it.

Seaman gives 100% but imo not good enough, same with Barlow and Woltman not physically strong enough for the rigours of League 2 football.

Long and RSW simply not good enough imo.

So we have the nucleus of a good team for this level.
We need to clear out the dead wood. About 6 players and then we need 4 good players signing.  It will take 2 windows I suspect due to contracts.

With what we have I would play 4-4-2 
Get Hurst & Moyneux wide and play Miller up with Agard.
Leave Clayton out as he is far too slow. We need to play quick tempo football get the full backs attacking with the wingers.
We are not going to score goals unless we get the ball into the danger area.

Give Miller and Agard service and they will get goals.

It’s not rocket science. What DS is trying to do with this lot is baffling me and it seems he is baffling the players.

KISS  keep it simple stupid. 

[Cramby10]

There’s just a bit too much sense being spoken on here now.
The fact that everyone with eyesight watching us can see the problems barring the men that matter is a real concern.

[tommy toes]

I'll be going, simply because it's the first home game since we lost Johnny Barker and I'll be sitting among his long standing friends as a tribute to him.
What happens in the game hardly matters.

[Lesonthewest]

  I want to see change goalkick, I don't like banging ones head against a brick wall and fear our coaching team have got to that point with the players at their disposal, who are not suited one bit to the tactics being foisted on them.
  Yes I accept the standard of players we have are not of the standard we have had in the recent past, but are they as bad as the performances recently have shown.
  We have been made mugs of by some really poor form sides getting them back on track, and if reports of the Tranmere fans actually laughing and deriding our play is true then that is the ultimate insult.
  We are limited through injury to some of our better players as to the team we can field at the moment but even then in the case of Faulkner he would be unavailable being out on loan for as our marketing team says lack of technical ability and to improve that side of his game, that is something he should be doing here as the rest of his game is better than those playing, and those who publically pointed out his short comings are the same people who threw Williams on up front at Tranmere something I am still trying to come to terms with and work out.
  So what do I a mere supporter want to see tomorrow, well to start with no from me to you by three or four fairy celendines in our own area would be a start. Getting the ball forward at pace and players running at defenders with the ball at feet, and getting the ball in the oppositions area in front of goal would be a thrill not often seen of late.
  A management team that instigates a style of play that suits the players we have instead of foisting tactics on them that gives poor sides a chance of giving us a good hiding which is what has happened of late.
  I guess the question I am asking is how  bad are we really, or are we being made to look bad by self inflicted restrictions put on the players with the tactics imposed on them, I think a lot has to do with the latter myself.
  It hurts me to criticize people I know want success as much as I do, but the club is heading for crisis, when long standing supporters like Hound are questioning his support, a bloke who has forgotten more about football than some on the staff will ever know, the club are heading for trouble financially.
  One thing is for certain, things cannot go on as they are and expect the club to flourish, that point is long gone, a big reset on the field of play is the only way a positive result can reach a happy conclusion, and finding a system to suit the players we have here at this moment would be a start, and only the coaching/management team can do that and need to quickly.

Cracking post.

[scawsby steve]

Brian, part of your last post suggests you were neither there on Boxing Day, nor watching on iFollow.

If that's true, and you weren't indisposed, then we really are in trouble if an old stalwart like you loses interest.

As regards a style of play suited to where we are at the moment, Copps and DS should go and have a long chat with Paul Warne.

[ForsolongaRover]

In a sense the heart of the problem is naivety in the art of management, man-management. You identify and build on the strengths of your people. Of course it’s a team, so you have to blend them into a unit which does require some compromise. But you don’t try and shoehorn them all into a system you believe is ideal just because it’s in the Manual that is your Bible.

However good (or bad) your players are, you have to utilise their individual strengths. Baldwin must know this and you would have thought Copps would too and it’s time someone educated the Head Coach.

[selby]

  I watched the game on ifollow Steve, and took the anti depression pills on about the twenty minute mark, they didn't work.

[DonnyOsmond]

Brian, part of your last post suggests you were neither there on Boxing Day, nor watching on iFollow.

If that's true, and you weren't indisposed, then we really are in trouble if an old stalwart like you loses interest.

As regards a style of play suited to where we are at the moment, Copps and DS should go and have a long chat with Paul Warne.

Or speak to teams that have got promoted from this league recently like Cheltenham, Bolton, Forest Green, all who have liked to pass the ball.

[scawsby steve]

Brian, part of your last post suggests you were neither there on Boxing Day, nor watching on iFollow.

If that's true, and you weren't indisposed, then we really are in trouble if an old stalwart like you loses interest.

As regards a style of play suited to where we are at the moment, Copps and DS should go and have a long chat with Paul Warne.

Or speak to teams that have got promoted from this league recently like Cheltenham, Bolton, Forest Green, all who have liked to pass the ball.

You're comparing Cheltenham and Forest Green to Rotherham?

OK.

[DonnyOsmond]

Brian, part of your last post suggests you were neither there on Boxing Day, nor watching on iFollow.

If that's true, and you weren't indisposed, then we really are in trouble if an old stalwart like you loses interest.

As regards a style of play suited to where we are at the moment, Copps and DS should go and have a long chat with Paul Warne.

Or speak to teams that have got promoted from this league recently like Cheltenham, Bolton, Forest Green, all who have liked to pass the ball.

You're comparing Cheltenham and Forest Green to Rotherham?

OK.

No. You said where we are at the moment... That is League Two. Paul Warne hasn't ever managed in League Two as far as I'm aware, so I've offered you alternatives who have managed teams "where we are at the moment" and have achieved success playing passing football.

[scawsby steve]

Brian, part of your last post suggests you were neither there on Boxing Day, nor watching on iFollow.

If that's true, and you weren't indisposed, then we really are in trouble if an old stalwart like you loses interest.

As regards a style of play suited to where we are at the moment, Copps and DS should go and have a long chat with Paul Warne.

Or speak to teams that have got promoted from this league recently like Cheltenham, Bolton, Forest Green, all who have liked to pass the ball.

You're comparing Cheltenham and Forest Green to Rotherham?

OK.

No. You said where we are at the moment... That is League Two. Paul Warne hasn't ever managed in League Two as far as I'm aware, so I've offered you alternatives who have managed teams "where we are at the moment" and have achieved success playing passing football.

Fair point.

However, I still think we need to be more direct than we are at present. I'd like to see the whole spine of our team strengthened in January.

[selby]

  I will give you Forest Green and Cheltenham Donny, if you give me Wycombe and Rotherham at a higher level mate.
  The common denominator is buddy, all four teams had players to suit the style of play the manager wanted to play, and didn't try to do what they were incapable of doing.
  If there was only one way of winning a game of football it would soon lose it's appeal to spectators.

[DonnyOsmond]

  I will give you Forest Green and Cheltenham Donny, if you give me Wycombe and Rotherham at a higher level mate.
  The common denominator is buddy, all four teams had players to suit the style of play the manager wanted to play, and didn't try to do what they were incapable of doing.
  If there was only one way of winning a game of football it would soon lose it's appeal to spectators.

Aye. Different styles can bring success. The question is what style should Doncaster Rovers play and is Copps sufficiently doing his job to bring in a manager and players to play that way?

[selby]

  I agree about the question, the answer lies with the team management and who is available in our price range.
   

[ForsolongaRover]

Looking at the Rochdale Fans forum, they seem more concerned about financial survival than what will happen tomorrow.

Tranmere looked poor on You Tube and so do Rochdale…. But they weren’t playing us!

[Upton Rover]

If we don’t win this game, then very serious questions have to be asked about the club and their plans, because their ambitions are not been fulfilled

[selby]

 We are desperate for a win simple as that.

[monkeytennis]

We are desperate for a win simple as that.

I’d take a draw!

[Upton Rover]

We are desperate for a win simple as that.

I’d take a draw!

Your easy pleased, nothing more than a very convincing win would do for me 4-0 or 5-0

[Chris Black come back]

We are desperate for a win simple as that.

I’d take a draw!

Your easy pleased, nothing more than a very convincing win would do for me 4-0 or 5-0

I think you are crackers but this aside, oddly the last time we managed to score 5 at home in the league was almost exactly 4 years ago and it was actually against Rochdale - we stuffed them 5-0 on 1 January 2019 with goals from May, Crawford, Copps and two from Marquis.

[monkeytennis]

We are desperate for a win simple as that.

I’d take a draw!

Your easy pleased, nothing more than a very convincing win would do for me 4-0 or 5-0

I think you are crackers but this aside, oddly the last time we managed to score 5 at home in the league was almost exactly 4 years ago and it was actually against Rochdale - we stuffed them 5-0 on 1 January 2019 with goals from May, Crawford, Copps and two from Marquis.

I remember that day well. How things have changed.

[Chris Black come back]

We are also rans in the lowest professional tier of the game, just about struggling to prevent ourselves drowning amidst a huge ocean of total mediocrity as far as the eye can see.

[Upton Rover]

We are desperate for a win simple as that.

I’d take a draw!

Your easy pleased, nothing more than a very convincing win would do for me 4-0 or 5-0

I think you are crackers but this aside, oddly the last time we managed to score 5 at home in the league was almost exactly 4 years ago and it was actually against Rochdale - we stuffed them 5-0 on 1 January 2019 with goals from May, Crawford, Copps and two from Marquis.

Put it this way all the fans deserve a big win, we see if these underrated players have it in them.

[Chris Black come back]

Rowe out again tonight. Any word on what’s happened with him? Gone very quiet.

[i_ateallthepies]

Why do all the fans 'deserve a big win'?  Do all those who boo and hurl abuse deserve a big win too?  It's competitive sport, for there to be winners there must also be losers.  We've had some of our best times in recent years, now we're having a God awful spell of the bad times, perhaps we 'deserve' those too.