BBC and lineker

[LincsRover]

Gary Lineker regularly makes political comments on Twitter. He's not been suspended previously.

He's been suspended specifically for stating "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s.”

Giving political opinions is one thing.

Comparing current day UK politicians or institutions to the Nazis in Germany is quite another.

Being confronted about the appropriateness of making such a statement and then refusing to apologies over it is quite another thing again.

Struggling to see how anyone can have any sympathy for the man let alone defend him.

Perhaps some on here need to take a lesson in history.

I mean, WTAF! You've completely ignored the weapons-grade hypocrisy at play here, apart from the the fact that the very point the original tweet made has rather been proven by subsequent events. Lineker's removal was politically motivated and the support he's received from colleagues and others, inside and outside the game, suggest he has hit the nail on the head.

Absolutely right!! 

[LincsRover]

Gary Lineker regularly makes political comments on Twitter. He's not been suspended previously.

He's been suspended specifically for stating "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s.”

Giving political opinions is one thing.

Comparing current day UK politicians or institutions to the Nazis in Germany is quite another.

Being confronted about the appropriateness of making such a statement and then refusing to apologies over it is quite another thing again.

Struggling to see how anyone can have any sympathy for the man let alone defend him.

Perhaps some on here need to take a lesson in history.

Perhaps it's yourself who needs the lesson in history .

Control of the media , the right wing press and other media platforms allowed to spew any kind of comment that dehumanises vulnerable people in order to divert attention away from their own failings .

Anyone opposing them is shut down whilst they continue to go to to work on Mick Lynch , the nurses , benefit claimants and immigrants .

That was 1930's Germany where everything was blamed on the Jews.

Almost anything and anybody  to try and divide and conquer in order to keep things in the UK just the way they are and the system ultimately weighed heavily towards wealth and keeping their power .

You sir have fallen for their bile , lock , stock and barrel .

Does the immigration situation need a solution , yes it does .

Clearly you haven't worked out that the present UK government doesn't want a solution and their present policies are unworkable because it doesn't suit them to have a solution  for the very reasons I've explained .

 

[Branton Red]

Perhaps it's yourself who needs the lesson in history .

Control of the media , the right wing press and other media platforms allowed to spew any kind of comment that dehumanises vulnerable people in order to divert attention away from their own failings .

Anyone opposing them is shut down whilst they continue to go to to work on Mick Lynch , the nurses , benefit claimants and immigrants .

That was 1930's Germany where everything was blamed on the Jews.

Almost anything and anybody  to try and divide and conquer in order to keep things in the UK just the way they are and the system ultimately weighed heavily towards wealth and keeping their power .

You sir have fallen for their bile , lock , stock and barrel .

Does the immigration situation need a solution , yes it does .

Clearly you haven't worked out that the present UK government doesn't want a solution and their present policies are unworkable because it doesn't suit them to have a solution  for the very reasons I've explained .

With respect you've missed my point in entirely.

I'm not defending the Tories or their Immigration Bill. I'm criticising Gary Lineker's puerile and inappropriate comparison to 1930s Nazi Germany.

A lesson in history. This is the Nazi party who were responsible for Kristallnacht; Guernica; the annexation of the Sudetenland; the invasion of Poland; the internment of gypsies, homosexuals and political opponents in forced labour camps; the ending of democratic elections; the banning of other political parties

And used the power of propaganda and of language to justify these actions both in advance and in the aftermath of said actions.

This is very language of 30s Germany that Lineker is drawing equivalence to in his tweet criticising the language of the Tories today.

Surely you can see past your dislike, even hatred, of the Tory party and their Immigration Bill and can see that drawing such equivalence is highly inappropriate.

[Bessie Red]

So it looks like the BBC have suspended him for his comments ,now wright and shearer have pulled out of hosting match of the day as well ,I don't see what he did wrong ,it was on his Twitter page not while he was hosting the program

https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality/
https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/conflicts-of-interest
There you go he broke BBC rules!

Thanks for that.

From your first link:

"A potential conflict of interest arises when there is the possibility that an individual’s external activities or interests may affect, or be reasonably perceived as affecting, the BBC’s impartiality and its integrity."

So the BBC Chairperson, who donated £400k to the Tory party and arranged an £800k loan to PM Johnson a few weeks before landing the BBC job?

Alan Sugar who has saved a several year trolling job of Diane Abbot on Twitter?

Andrew Neil who was Chairman of the very right wing The Spectator whole he was the BBC's  chief political interviewer, and frequently expressed his opinion on party political issues on Twitter?

I agree they should all be disciplined too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tory MP's have literally said that anyone who is against this law (which had been condemned by the UNHCR and which the HO itself says likely is illegal under ECHR rules) is disloyal to the country and pretty much in the same breath lumped in the legal system, the civil service and the Labour party in that group.

Braverman said we were being "invaded".



Of course that is language which is reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

Or, at the very least, it is reasonable to point out the similarities.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So it looks like the BBC have suspended him for his comments ,now wright and shearer have pulled out of hosting match of the day as well ,I don't see what he did wrong ,it was on his Twitter page not while he was hosting the program

https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality/
https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/conflicts-of-interest
There you go he broke BBC rules!

Thanks for that.

From your first link:

"A potential conflict of interest arises when there is the possibility that an individual’s external activities or interests may affect, or be reasonably perceived as affecting, the BBC’s impartiality and its integrity."

So the BBC Chairperson, who donated £400k to the Tory party and arranged an £800k loan to PM Johnson a few weeks before landing the BBC job?

Alan Sugar who has saved a several year trolling job of Diane Abbot on Twitter?

Andrew Neil who was Chairman of the very right wing The Spectator whole he was the BBC's  chief political interviewer, and frequently expressed his opinion on party political issues on Twitter?

I agree they should all be disciplined too.

Why do you think only Lineker has been disciplined?

[Bessie Red]

To be honest with you flower I don’t give a shite. Was only stating a fact. I avoid news and politics like the plague. It’s a toxic swamp which ever side you’re batting and it’s not good for my mental health.
If it was written into his contract that he shouldn’t do certain things then he shouldn’t do them or not sign it in the first place.

The BBC impartiality rules being cited as being broken are not part of his contract.

He broke rules which did not apply to him.

Do you have access to the wording of his contract with the BBC? Any full time or contracted external consultant working where I work have to  comply fully with our rules. I'd be very surprised if the BBC is any different.

[Bessie Red]

So it looks like the BBC have suspended him for his comments ,now wright and shearer have pulled out of hosting match of the day as well ,I don't see what he did wrong ,it was on his Twitter page not while he was hosting the program

https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality/
https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/conflicts-of-interest
There you go he broke BBC rules!

Thanks for that.

From your first link:

"A potential conflict of interest arises when there is the possibility that an individual’s external activities or interests may affect, or be reasonably perceived as affecting, the BBC’s impartiality and its integrity."

So the BBC Chairperson, who donated £400k to the Tory party and arranged an £800k loan to PM Johnson a few weeks before landing the BBC job?

Alan Sugar who has saved a several year trolling job of Diane Abbot on Twitter?

Andrew Neil who was Chairman of the very right wing The Spectator whole he was the BBC's  chief political interviewer, and frequently expressed his opinion on party political issues on Twitter?

I agree they should all be disciplined too.

Why do you think only Lineker has been disciplined?

I don't know, I don't work in the BBC Human Resources dept., do you?

[Goole Rover]

Perhaps it's yourself who needs the lesson in history .

Control of the media , the right wing press and other media platforms allowed to spew any kind of comment that dehumanises vulnerable people in order to divert attention away from their own failings .

Anyone opposing them is shut down whilst they continue to go to to work on Mick Lynch , the nurses , benefit claimants and immigrants .

That was 1930's Germany where everything was blamed on the Jews.

Almost anything and anybody  to try and divide and conquer in order to keep things in the UK just the way they are and the system ultimately weighed heavily towards wealth and keeping their power .

You sir have fallen for their bile , lock , stock and barrel .

Does the immigration situation need a solution , yes it does .

Clearly you haven't worked out that the present UK government doesn't want a solution and their present policies are unworkable because it doesn't suit them to have a solution  for the very reasons I've explained .

With respect you've missed my point in entirely.

I'm not defending the Tories or their Immigration Bill. I'm criticising Gary Lineker's puerile and inappropriate comparison to 1930s Nazi Germany.

A lesson in history. This is the Nazi party who were responsible for Kristallnacht; Guernica; the annexation of the Sudetenland; the invasion of Poland; the internment of gypsies, homosexuals and political opponents in forced labour camps; the ending of democratic elections; the banning of other political parties

And used the power of propaganda and of language to justify these actions both in advance and in the aftermath of said actions.

This is very language of 30s Germany that Lineker is drawing equivalence to in his tweet criticising the language of the Tories today.

Surely you can see past your dislike, even hatred, of the Tory party and their Immigration Bill and can see that drawing such equivalence is highly inappropriate.

Absolutely right

[tyke1962]

Perhaps it's yourself who needs the lesson in history .

Control of the media , the right wing press and other media platforms allowed to spew any kind of comment that dehumanises vulnerable people in order to divert attention away from their own failings .

Anyone opposing them is shut down whilst they continue to go to to work on Mick Lynch , the nurses , benefit claimants and immigrants .

That was 1930's Germany where everything was blamed on the Jews.

Almost anything and anybody  to try and divide and conquer in order to keep things in the UK just the way they are and the system ultimately weighed heavily towards wealth and keeping their power .

You sir have fallen for their bile , lock , stock and barrel .

Does the immigration situation need a solution , yes it does .

Clearly you haven't worked out that the present UK government doesn't want a solution and their present policies are unworkable because it doesn't suit them to have a solution  for the very reasons I've explained .

With respect you've missed my point in entirely.

I'm not defending the Tories or their Immigration Bill. I'm criticising Gary Lineker's puerile and inappropriate comparison to 1930s Nazi Germany.

A lesson in history. This is the Nazi party who were responsible for Kristallnacht; Guernica; the annexation of the Sudetenland; the invasion of Poland; the internment of gypsies, homosexuals and political opponents in forced labour camps; the ending of democratic elections; the banning of other political parties

And used the power of propaganda and of language to justify these actions both in advance and in the aftermath of said actions.

This is very language of 30s Germany that Lineker is drawing equivalence to in his tweet criticising the language of the Tories today.

Surely you can see past your dislike, even hatred, of the Tory party and their Immigration Bill and can see that drawing such equivalence is highly inappropriate.

Rather naive Branton with all due respect .

Just because there aren't jack booted militias doing goose steps at Nuremburg rallies doesn't mean the same Nazi play book isn't getting used here .

It's way more subtle than Concentration Camps , allegiance to the Fuhrer or Fatherland and Kristelnacht .

This isn't physical persecution it's psychological .

Free speech is a fundamental democratic right and this cuts both ways , Nick Griffin had a democratic right to be heard the same as Gary Lineker has .

You take that away then your heading down a rocky road .

[BillyStubbsTears]

The BBC (or, more correctly, it's senior management placemen from the heart of the Tory party) says Lineker has to be disciplined because its staff can't get involved in party political arguments.

This is what Sugar tweeted in the middle of the 2019 election campaign.



Not a word said to him.

By the way, that line from the BBC. That means that if we ever did get an authoritarian right or left wing Govt that tried to undermine legal democratic processes [1] the BBC would bothsides the issue.

[1] For the record, I think we are well on the way to having one now, and Braverman is a fascist-in-waiting, testing the waters here to see how society and its institutions react.

Which is why I back Lineker to the hilt.

[The Beast]

The fact that we're having this argument on a Doncaster Rovers forum is a massive triumph for the tory party, its their plan, create a culture war, divide and rule. On reflection I am ashamed of myself for rising to it and won't be commenting further more.

#COYR!

[Bessie Red]

BBC is wrong on this one imo. Even if your a gammon and pineapple type and love the nonsense Braverman comes out with what does it matter what Lineker says on his personal twitter feeds?

BBC needs to be politically neutral but it’s not like he did it on air or is a political correspondent. His personal opinions have no bearing on how he does his job like it might other roles.

Frankly the government at the moment are a shambles and the BBC seem to give them a easy ride.

This is why he has been suspended
https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality/
and
https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/conflicts-of-interest
He cannot tweet comments that break their impartiality and conflict of interests rules and not be expected to be disciplined. It is not a matter of free speech but a matter of breaking BBC rules. He can say what he like on twitter if he resigns from his BBC position.

The impartiality rules apply to political commentators or newscasters. The host of Cbeebies doesn't have to adhere to impartiality rules outside the office and the same applies to Lineker, who is also exempt from some rules because he is technically a freelancer.

Wrong. Read them again and note the following specifics:
"Staff, presenters & others who contribute to our output" - Section 14 - Impartiality
"A potential conflict of interest arises when there is a possibility that an individual’s external activities may affect or be reasonably perceived as affecting BBC's impartiality " - Section 15 - Conflict of interests
"The requirement extends to freelance presenters " - Section 15 - Conflict of interests
The final decision regarding disciplinary action rests solely with BBC's HR dept. not me, you or any politicians.

[Bentley Bullet]

The BBC (or, more correctly, it's senior management placemen from the heart of the Tory party) says Lineker has to be disciplined because its staff can't get involved in party political arguments.

This is what Sugar tweeted in the middle of the 2019 election campaign.



Not a word said to him.

By the way, that line from the BBC. That means that if we ever did get an authoritarian right or left wing Govt that tried to undermine legal democratic processes [1] the BBC would bothsides the issue.

[1] For the record, I think we are well on the way to having one now, and Braverman is a fascist-in-waiting, testing the waters here to see how society and its institutions react.

Which is why I back Lineker to the hilt.

YOU BACK LINEKER TO THE HILT BECAUSE HE SAID SOMETHING THAT SUITED YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA. HAD HE SAID SOMETHING AGAINST YOUR BELOVED LABOUR PARTY YOU WOULD NOT HAVE BACKED HIM.

Quite simple really, eh Billy lad!

[The Beast]

The fact that we're having this argument on a Doncaster Rovers forum is a massive triumph for the tory party, its their plan, create a culture war, divide and rule. On reflection I am ashamed of myself for rising to it and won't be commenting further more.

#COYR!

[Bessie Red]

The BBC (or, more correctly, it's senior management placemen from the heart of the Tory party) says Lineker has to be disciplined because its staff can't get involved in party political arguments.

This is what Sugar tweeted in the middle of the 2019 election campaign.



Not a word said to him.

By the way, that line from the BBC. That means that if we ever did get an authoritarian right or left wing Govt that tried to undermine legal democratic processes [1] the BBC would bothsides the issue.

[1] For the record, I think we are well on the way to having one now, and Braverman is a fascist-in-waiting, testing the waters here to see how society and its institutions react.

Which is why I back Lineker to the hilt.

BST as I've said previously Sugar, Sharp & Neil should all be disciplined for their actions however that decision is solely down to the BBC HR dept, not you me or any politicians

[BillyStubbsTears]

And as I replied Bessie, why do you think they didn't?

[Bessie Red]

BBC is wrong on this one imo. Even if your a gammon and pineapple type and love the nonsense Braverman comes out with what does it matter what Lineker says on his personal twitter feeds?

BBC needs to be politically neutral but it’s not like he did it on air or is a political correspondent. His personal opinions have no bearing on how he does his job like it might other roles.

Frankly the government at the moment are a shambles and the BBC seem to give them a easy ride.

This is why he has been suspended
https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality/
and
https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/conflicts-of-interest
He cannot tweet comments that break their impartiality and conflict of interests rules and not be expected to be disciplined. It is not a matter of free speech but a matter of breaking BBC rules. He can say what he like on twitter if he resigns from his BBC position.

Maybe during this discussion you should change your name to Bessie BLUE.

Why is that then EfD? All I am doing is presenting facts by showing what the BBC rules are around these sort of issues. How they discipline individuals who break those rules is entirely within the remit of their HR dept. not you,me or any politicians.

[Bessie Red]

And as I replied Bessie, why do you think they didn't?

I refer you to my previous answer I don't know as I don't work in the BBC's HR dept. who are the ones who recommend disciplinary actions if they determine that BBC rules are broken, just like any other legitimate business across the UK.

[Bentley Bullet]

And as I replied Bessie, why do you think they didn't?

Maybe because they didn't go as far as comparing the government to Nazi Germany.

[Bessie Red]

And as I replied Bessie, why do you think they didn't?

Maybe because they didn't go as far as comparing the government to Nazi Germany.

Tbf if they have broken BBC rules as determined by the BBC HR dept then they should also have been disciplined.

[Goole Rover]

We can go on for ever on this topic. Despite what Liniker said the majority of our population don’t want the current cross channel invasion to continue. My view is that the current influx are sponsored by gangs who have sinister ambitions this is damaging for the genuine asylum seekers. Linikers comparison is a slur on the democracy and freedom that we enjoy today what’s more it didn’t come cheap. All this clap trap about extreme left or right simply won’t happen here the general public won’t allow it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way Bessie. This is WAY above HR level stuff. It's not like Lineker has been caught nicking a pack of Post-Its from the stationery cupboard.

Linker was told to stand down by the Director General, Tim Davie.

Tim Davie was a minor Tory politician in the 1990s. Ordinarily that would be no issue. We all make mistakes and deserve redemption...

But Tim Davie reports to the Chair of the BBC.

Which is Richard Sharp.

Who, shortly before getting that job, arranged to bail out our then man-child  with a thick end of £1m loan. And who had previously stuck £400k in the Tory party coffers. In short, a lifelong, dedicated pillar of the Tory establishment, who is exquisitely connected to senior Tory MPs.

Now why do you think Lineker has been disciplined when the others weren't?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The BBC (or, more correctly, it's senior management placemen from the heart of the Tory party) says Lineker has to be disciplined because its staff can't get involved in party political arguments.

This is what Sugar tweeted in the middle of the 2019 election campaign.



Not a word said to him.

By the way, that line from the BBC. That means that if we ever did get an authoritarian right or left wing Govt that tried to undermine legal democratic processes [1] the BBC would bothsides the issue.

[1] For the record, I think we are well on the way to having one now, and Braverman is a fascist-in-waiting, testing the waters here to see how society and its institutions react.

Which is why I back Lineker to the hilt.

YOU BACK LINEKER TO THE HILT BECAUSE HE SAID SOMETHING THAT SUITED YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA. HAD HE SAID SOMETHING AGAINST YOUR BELOVED LABOUR PARTY YOU WOULD NOT HAVE BACKED HIM.

Quite simple really, eh Billy lad!

I'm going to put hope over a decade of bitter experience and see if I can get you, just once, to engage like a grown up.

Do YOU think the BBC has been consistent in the way it dealt with Lineker, compared to Sugar, Neil and Clarkson?

[tyke1962]

Presumably those against Gary Lineker would also agree that if he'd tweeted pro government immigration policy and stood with Braverman he'd have also broken impartiality rules and would be on gardening leave today .

The BBC and the government would be up in arms ....... Yes ?

[Branton Red]

Gary Lineker: "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s.”

Now consider the below quotes: -

Heinrich Himmler on justifying Germany's invasion of Poland: "The Slavs are subhuman people of the East"; "the primary goal of the German state is the destruction of the Polish nation."

Adolf Hitler on Jewish people "With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people."

Can anyone justify drawing an equivalence of the language of these quotes to the language being used by Tories now? Really??

[IDM]

If Lineker tweets from his own personal account rather than an official bbc account, he’s not representing the bbc.

If he tweets from a personal account criticising the bbc, that’s different and a potential problem.

Most organisations have rules against employees bringing them into disrepute - ie don’t misuse official media channels and don’t slag us off on your personal media.

What the hell has Lineker’s personally presented opinion on the refugees got to do with the bbc.?

As for the Nazi comparison, he did say he was comparing the language used, no mention at all of comparing the actual organisations.!!

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wonder if the BBC will be consistent and discipline all those who have stood with Lineker...

[Superspy]

Jonathan Pie once again so eloquently making the point.

He's almost gone 100% from satire to social commentary... in the sense that it'd be funny if it wasn't so close to the truth.

https://youtu.be/jXqVGtxFppQ

[Bessie Red]

By the way Bessie. This is WAY above HR level stuff. It's not like Lineker has been caught nicking a pack of Post-Its from the stationery cupboard.

Linker was told to stand down by the Director General, Tim Davie.

Tim Davie was a minor Tory politician in the 1990s. Ordinarily that would be no issue. We all make mistakes and deserve redemption...

But Tim Davie reports to the Chair of the BBC.

Which is Richard Sharp.

Who, shortly before getting that job, arranged to bail out our then man-child  with a thick end of £1m loan. And who had previously stuck £400k in the Tory party coffers. In short, a lifelong, dedicated pillar of the Tory establishment, who is exquisitely connected to senior Tory MPs.

Now why do you think Lineker has been disciplined when the others weren't?

It's not way above HR level stuff, do you know what HR do within a business?
You keep asking me why the others weren't disciplined & I keep telling you I haven't got a clue, and neither do you or any one else not party to BBC HR investigations!
Seems to me that you are pushing your political beliefs onto this debate whereas all I am doing is giving people the facts on the BBC rules relevant to this type of issue. As I keep saying it is the BBC HR dept responsibility to determine if any rules have been broken in this case, and if they believe they have then they will recommend a specific disciplinary action. Lineker has every right to appeal against their decision. Has he,I don't know?