James Coppinger

[pib]

I'd like to know how and why we've gone from budget to compete in league 1 for the play offs to mid table league 2 budget.

It's of course the board's perogative to do so but why and also if that's what they want why are they not actively looking to move on as it is not what us fans want.

We should not accept mediocrity.

have we had a top 6 budget thou, look at the downgrade in not just permanent players but loan players, I think the board have said what they want supporters to hear not what the truth is

I’ve already talked about the January window and how it affected the budgets of those clubs around us in terms of budgets.

We started the season with a budget that would put us in about 6th place, but, as I said earlier this week, there are a bunch of clubs that are close to us in terms of playing budget, and we have calculated that the window saw us drop a few places. The club are still of the opinion that we are in the top 10.

There are other pressures, not least of which is the massive increase in the utility costs which wasn’t planned for, but my understanding is that TB is handling that.

is that what a club looking to “bounce back decisively” would do? We still had a chance of playoffs in January and decided to reduce our budget

As SO'D used to say... if you stand still in football, you go backwards.

[Ronnie Dovers]

It seems like every time someone high up at the club has spoken publicly this season, they've scaled down the ambitions and goals for the club. We've now gone from bouncing back decisively, to playoffs as a minimum, to challenging for the playoffs, to now, finally, being happy that we're not battling for relegation.

That for me is the big issue. It's starting to feel like genuine dishonesty coming from parts of the club. And I hope that's what is being questioned when SM, the shadow board etc get their chance to ask questions. I don't demand bigger budgets, spending transfer fees etc. The board have every right to spend at a level they believe is sensible. But we deserve honesty. And it increasingly feels like we haven't had that as this season has progressed.

[Alan Southstand]

As SO'D used to say... if you stand still in football, you go backwards.

We’re not just standing still, though, we’ve fallen off the precipice!

Copps alluded to it himself when he referred to ‘stem the flow’. He’s obviously not enjoying his job right now and we can probably all sympathise with that, but our much needed improvement is not going to happen, based on sympathies.

[drfchound]

Do other clubs not have to pay the lecky bill?

Yes they do of course but we don’t have any idea whether or not their ground brings them income in the way that clubDoncaster does for us.
The tenants at the stadium plus the income from the other things, football pitches and food suppliers etc should give us an advantage over some other clubs so it could be argued that our situation isn’t as bad as at other places.

[pib]

As SO'D used to say... if you stand still in football, you go backwards.

We’re not just standing still, though, we’ve fallen off the precipice!

Copps alluded to it himself when he referred to ‘stem the flow’. He’s obviously not enjoying his job right now and we can probably all sympathise with that, but our much needed improvement is not going to happen, based on sympathies.

Absolutely Alan. I was referring to the comment that our budget was top 6 before January, but then because our rivals recruited more and increased their budgets, ours dropped to top 10. Stand still, go backwards.

I agree though that the overall trend is definitely downwards in that regard.

[Alan Southstand]

I agree, ‘hound, but SM has already explained how the budget is the budget and if something else needs paying, then that reduces the playing resource. This is an area where we need to look at correcting in some way, that is, the playing budget simply has to be the absolute priority over everything else - especially now in the mess we’re in!

[drfchound]

I agree, ‘hound, but SM has already explained how the budget is the budget and if something else needs paying, then that reduces the playing resource. This is an area where we need to look at correcting in some way, that is, the playing budget simply has to be the absolute priority over everything else - especially now in the mess we’re in!

Alan, I absolutely agree with that last part of your post.
My point is that the large fuel bill should be partially funded by the additional funds that we generate.

[silent majority]

I agree, ‘hound, but SM has already explained how the budget is the budget and if something else needs paying, then that reduces the playing resource. This is an area where we need to look at correcting in some way, that is, the playing budget simply has to be the absolute priority over everything else - especially now in the mess we’re in!

No I didn't, I used the utilities demand for context. I didn't say that the playing budget was being reduced to accommodate that, in fact I did say that TB was covering that.

What I did say (its getting like groundhog day on here!!) was that we started the season with a budget that put us around 6th, but due to other clubs expenditure during the January window that's been enough to reduce us to somewhere in the top 10.

And I've also said, for the umpteenth time on here, that its easier to balance the books in LG1 than it is in LG2.

[i_ateallthepies]

Do other clubs not have to pay the lecky bill?

Yes they do of course but we don’t have any idea whether or not their ground brings them income in the way that clubDoncaster does for us.
The tenants at the stadium plus the income from the other things, football pitches and food suppliers etc should give us an advantage over some other clubs so it could be argued that our situation isn’t as bad as at other places.

I'm sure that's what all the crowing by the club about now being sustainable was about, Hound.

I also seem to remember the recent lengthy discussion on here on that very topic where SM explained that changes to the governance of the game arising out of the Fan Led Review would require that all clubs become more sustainable and which would place the Rovers at an advantage over other clubs because we're ahead of the game.


That advantage feels rather feeble at the minute.

[Alan Southstand]

Just for clarity Martin, I wasn’t referring to that particular point you were making. You have explained what I was saying - I think it was in reference to costs on improvements to the stadium (whatever thread that was in).

[EasyforDennis]

I agree, ‘hound, but SM has already explained how the budget is the budget and if something else needs paying, then that reduces the playing resource. This is an area where we need to look at correcting in some way, that is, the playing budget simply has to be the absolute priority over everything else - especially now in the mess we’re in!

No I didn't, I used the utilities demand for context. I didn't say that the playing budget was being reduced to accommodate that, in fact I did say that TB was covering that.

What I did say (its getting like groundhog day on here!!) was that we started the season with a budget that put us around 6th, but due to other clubs expenditure during the January window that's been enough to reduce us to somewhere in the top 10.

And I've also said, for the umpteenth time on here, that its easier to balance the books in LG1 than it is in LG2.

So when the initial budget was set at the start of the season it included projected expenditure in the January window and it seems we have stuck to that budget.
So we have gone from the 6th highest budget to the 10th highest.
Therefore other clubs haven't been so rigid with their budget and have exceeded it while we have stagnated.

[Lincoln Rover]

To confirm what Martin ( SM) is saying.
At the start of the season we had a playing budget that would easily ensure we were in the top 6.
As the season has progressed & other teams “ throw money” at trying to get into the play offs or staving off relegation, then that standing has slipped. There is VERY little budget wise between the teams in those placed 5/10.
Again to allay any worries the utility bills & staff wage increases ( set by the law) all have to met & WILL do so. TB is picking up the shortfall, which will no doubt be significant.
There’s nothing whatsoever to suggest the playing budget will be touched.

[ravenrover]

I would suggest to VSC members to visit the VSC section of this forum if they haven't already done so

[tommy toes]

If its easier to balance the books in League One, then why aren't we busting a gut to get back there?

[silent majority]

Just for clarity Martin, I wasn’t referring to that particular point you were making. You have explained what I was saying - I think it was in reference to costs on improvements to the stadium (whatever thread that was in).

OK, fair enough, although I will admit to being a bit confused. Not your fault, just confused by everybody picking apart every post I write as though I'm somehow responsible.

[NickDRFC]

Couple of questions from me:

- Copps says his job is to communicate between Schofield and Baldwin. I thought Baldwin didn’t have anything to do with the football side of the club and that was all down to Blunt? Has this changed?
- Copps says we’re a “League Two club with an average League Two budget.” That to me is at odds with claims from SM & LR that we have a top 10 budget, with very little between that and a top 5 budget. What’s the truth here? Was it just a throwaway line with little thought given to it? Is Copps trying to apply pressure for more to spend next year (if so, I’m not sure this is the best way to do it). Does Copps not really know where we stand against the rest of the league? Is what SM/LR have been told inaccurate?

It does feel like expectations are trying to be reset here. To go from “bouncing back decisively” in August to getting to the playoffs being an “unbelievable achievement” (I had to read that bit twice) feels like a slap in the face. It would be nice to have some clarity rather than continually mixed messages - makes it harder and harder to ignore the conjecture about the state of the club.

[Prez]

I'd like to know how and why we've gone from budget to compete in league 1 for the play offs to mid table league 2 budget.

It's of course the board's perogative to do so but why and also if that's what they want why are they not actively looking to move on as it is not what us fans want.

We should not accept mediocrity.

have we had a top 6 budget thou, look at the downgrade in not just permanent players but loan players, I think the board have said what they want supporters to hear not what the truth is

I’ve already talked about the January window and how it affected the budgets of those clubs around us in terms of budgets.

We started the season with a budget that would put us in about 6th place, but, as I said earlier this week, there are a bunch of clubs that are close to us in terms of playing budget, and we have calculated that the window saw us drop a few places. The club are still of the opinion that we are in the top 10.

There are other pressures, not least of which is the massive increase in the utility costs which wasn’t planned for, but my understanding is that TB is handling that.

is that what a club looking to “bounce back decisively” would do? We still had a chance of playoffs in January and decided to reduce our budget

As SO'D used to say... if you stand still in football, you go backwards.

Trouble is we are not standing still. We are cutting back. Which is even more disastrous. We were told we would be a major player in league 2 yet we have an average budget. Those 2 don’t go hand in hand. The slide continues.

I dread to think the budget will be next season.

[Alan Southstand]

SM:

OK, fair enough, although I will admit to being a bit confused. Not your fault, just confused by everybody picking apart every post I write as though I'm somehow responsible.

Found the bit I was looking for, it was in a post in the ‘Bums on Seats’ thread, back in February:

“ Of course the stadium costs are dealt with in the CD accounts. The point being made is that the more you spend in one area the less there is in others, which of course includes the playing budget.”

That was what was stuck in my head!

[bpoolrover]

What I don't get is we clearly lost 3 of our biggest earners before amd in the transfer window,yet we really struggled to bring anyone decent in

[pib]

I'd like to know how and why we've gone from budget to compete in league 1 for the play offs to mid table league 2 budget.

It's of course the board's perogative to do so but why and also if that's what they want why are they not actively looking to move on as it is not what us fans want.

We should not accept mediocrity.

have we had a top 6 budget thou, look at the downgrade in not just permanent players but loan players, I think the board have said what they want supporters to hear not what the truth is

I’ve already talked about the January window and how it affected the budgets of those clubs around us in terms of budgets.

We started the season with a budget that would put us in about 6th place, but, as I said earlier this week, there are a bunch of clubs that are close to us in terms of playing budget, and we have calculated that the window saw us drop a few places. The club are still of the opinion that we are in the top 10.

There are other pressures, not least of which is the massive increase in the utility costs which wasn’t planned for, but my understanding is that TB is handling that.

is that what a club looking to “bounce back decisively” would do? We still had a chance of playoffs in January and decided to reduce our budget

As SO'D used to say... if you stand still in football, you go backwards.

Trouble is we are not standing still. We are cutting back. Which is even more disastrous. We were told we would be a major player in league 2 yet we have an average budget. Those 2 don’t go hand in hand. The slide continues.

I dread to think the budget will be next season.

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=287516.msg1226007#msg1226007

[GazLaz]

I’m not sure James’ YP interview has helped much. To me he said unless you spend money this is what you end up with. In-fact the reason we are where we are is because, as a football department, is probably because we think like that. James sounds like a disgruntled manager in that interview which isn’t good.

I think James and Danny have got some sort of utopian one size fits all “process” in mind. It’s likely to ruin them both. I think they needed to look at things in a more granular way when formulating the strategy. They went with “what they want” as opposed to “what we need”. Look at “what we need” and “what we have” then join the dots in between. That’s the start of a process in a short term environment.

Possibly feels like Danny has implemented what he’s good at, a decent shape out of possession, ok structure when defending but that may be his limit. We’ve ended up one dimensional attacking wise and then you get found out. It puts pressure on the defensive players, they make mistakes, and it spirals.

We don’t want to hear excuses, his job is to build a vision for the future, whatever the budget.

[belton rover]

It seems to me that the ‘budget’ is adjusted to reflect where we sit in the league. That way, we’ll never be failing.
How long before the ‘budget’ is that of a lowly division 4 club?
This is all very worrying.

[belton rover]

I’ve never really looked at this in such a way, but both our DoF and manager are both very inexperienced in their respective roles. I now seriously wonder if that was a very deliberate ploy by the board.

[Alan Southstand]

Trouble is, Belton, we made the same error way back, with AB. Then, we repeated that error with GM and then if it wasn’t obvious enough, we get the hat-trick by appointing DS (and Copps, to a degree).

It’s amateurish at best, dangerously inept at worst.

Someone needs to inject some confidence back into the support base before it totally evaporates.

[Cramby10]

Can anyone else see what’s going on here? Distraction techniques to the full. He’s got everyone losing their minds over the budget so we forget about the totally inexcusable and unacceptable shite being served up week in week out.
If it’s all about budget then we may as well not turn up on a weekend and just settle on the league table based on that. It’s utter b*llocks.
If he can’t work on said budget then surely he’s talked himself out of a job. Fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!

[steve@dcfd]

This what DS said to DFP about the budget and promotion.
Quote
Schofield was asked how hard building a side capable of challenging for promotion would be with a mid-table budget, to which he responded: “If you look throughout the leagues and at all the clubs it reflects your budget.

"We are 12th at the minute for a reason. Whatever the budget is we will give everything, every single day, to try and be the best we can be and try and win as many games as we can.”

I believe he should be able to produce more entertaining football with players we had whether the results would have been better I don’t know.


https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/what-danny-schofield-had-to-say-about-doncaster-rovers-mid-table-playing-budget-4084720

[Campsall rover]

What budget do Sutton United, Barrow & Stevenage have.

Look where the all are in the table.

They should all be in the bottom 5 of this league based on budgets i would expect.

We need a bl..dy manager who can manage. 

[steve@dcfd]

Can anyone else see what’s going on here? Distraction techniques to the full. He’s got everyone losing their minds over the budget so we forget about the totally inexcusable and unacceptable shite being served up week in week out.
If it’s all about budget then we may as well not turn up on a weekend and just settle on the league table based on that. It’s utter b*llocks.
If he can’t work on said budget then surely he’s talked himself out of a job. Fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!

If they sack him that’s 12 months wages they have to pay. Is Copps on a 12 month rolling contract aswell?? So difficult decisions to be made.

[steve@dcfd]

What budget do Sutton United, Barrow & Stevenage have.

Look where the all are in the table.

The should all be in the bottom 5 of this league based on budgets i would expect.

We need a bloody manager who can manage. 

I believe all three will have equivalent if not better than us at this time.

[monkeytennis]

Interesting interview. For me it just underlines what I believe already- that sustainable or not, the sporting element of the club (and the reason we turn up on a cold Tuesday night) is poorly run.

From the scoreboard being broken for months, to the PA system you can’t hear, to the catering obviously awarded to the lowest bidder without any concern for quality and value, to quite senior people now admitting that the budget isn’t enough, and most importantly to the dire football on display every week with abysmal results.

If not netto it’s Asda Smart Price!