Physical striker

[Ryaldinhio]

Watching the game today I thought we really struggled either both Colchester strikers. They only have 7 goals between them this season (5+2) but 8 assists aswell (2+6).

2 big physical lads direct involvement in 15 goals.

I think we need a big lad like their Akinde today, with a lad running off him that can finish like a Heffernan, Blundell or maybe .........take a chance on Goodman????

I think it showed a physical striker works last home game with Bogle and today no one could touch that Akinde until they passed him at a jog but he had already won first/second ball and done his job.

I think we need a big physical striker on a short term deal because if we go up league 1 is more technical.

What's everyone's thoughts?

[The Beast]

After last week's performance, I'd be more than happy with Omar Bogle. Can't believe we froze him out most of last season!

[Ryaldinhio]

Agree mate, said I'd take him back now

[DonnyBazR0ver]

A physical presence is always desirable. Doesn't always have to mean a big bugger but someone who's got the stature and guile to be effective in holding the ball, bringing others into play and being a goal threat themselves.

What we don't want is a brick sh^those, who's as mobile as a brick sh*thouse.

I know many didn't think much of Josh Andrews but I thought he had more than just his size. I wonder whether he's got over his 'growth spurts' and might be worth considering again for another try.

I'd like to think we could augment Miller and Lavery with two forwards with that physical presence whilst having Goodman as a development player.

[Ryaldinhio]

A physical presence is always desirable. Doesn't always have to mean a big bugger but someone who's got the stature and guile to be effective in holding the ball, bringing others into play and being a goal threat themselves.

What we don't want is a brick sh^those, who's as mobile as a brick sh*thouse.

I know many didn't think much of Josh Andrews but I thought he had more than just his size. I wonder whether he's got over his 'growth spurts' and might be worth considering again for another try.

I'd like to think we could augment Miller and Lavery with two forwards with that physical presence whilst having Goodman as a development player.

Agreed it doesn't need to be a brick shithouse maybe a Chris Brown type?

[Sammy Chung was King]

We need a mobile, intelligent striker who can hold onto the ball but can finish as well. Someone who can adapt to the game, whether it be a short passing one, or when things aren’t going right, to be able to hold his own on the physical side. We need pace throughout the side also.

[ncRover]

Agreed with Baz, a big lump like Matt Smith is no good.

Joe Ironside from Cambridge fits the bill, good in the air and hard working. 14 goals in L1 last season and 14 in L2 the season before getting Cambridge promoted. Is from Middlesbrough like Copps so could easily be talked in to a move up north. Out of contract.

[Campsall rover]

Agreed with Baz, a big lump like Matt Smith is no good.

Joe Ironside from Cambridge fits the bill, good in the air and hard working. 14 goals in L1 last season and 14 in L2 the season before getting Cambridge promoted. Is from Middlesbrough like Copps so could easily be talked in to a move up north. Out of contract.

Great shout ncRover.
If Ironside is out of contract then we should go and get him. I like him. Not that big in stature but strong like Marquis and scores goals. Has a 1 in 3 scoring record at Cambridge over 123 games and a 1 in 2 at Kidderminster over 84 games.
As you say from Middlesbrough so Copps will understand his accent 
Unless Copps has got any better lined up then Ironside would be a great signing.

[ncRover]

Agreed with Baz, a big lump like Matt Smith is no good.

Joe Ironside from Cambridge fits the bill, good in the air and hard working. 14 goals in L1 last season and 14 in L2 the season before getting Cambridge promoted. Is from Middlesbrough like Copps so could easily be talked in to a move up north. Out of contract.

Great shout ncRover.
If Ironside is out of contract then we should go and get him. I like him. Not that big in stature but strong like Marquis and scores goals. Has a 1 in 3 scoring record at Cambridge over 123 games and a 1 in 2 at Kidderminster over 84 games.
As you say from Middlesbrough so Copps will understand his accent 
Unless Copps has got any better lined up then Ironside would be a great signing.

Yep he was the one who allowed Paul Mullin to get all his goals as well. Could do the same for G Miller. Joe’s dad based in Sheffield too.

[Campsall rover]

One problem ncRover ref Ironside.
He played with Kyle Knoyle at Cambridge.
If he spoke to Kyle to get his opinion on DRFC and DS what would KK tell him? 

[roversdude]

To be fair to GMc he highlighted this very trait and got Andrews in unfortunately the lad was still growing
Would love us to get Ironside but we’d probably end up with one in a wheelchair

[TonySoprano]

Agreed with Baz, a big lump like Matt Smith is no good.

Joe Ironside from Cambridge fits the bill, good in the air and hard working. 14 goals in L1 last season and 14 in L2 the season before getting Cambridge promoted. Is from Middlesbrough like Copps so could easily be talked in to a move up north. Out of contract.

Do you mean Michael Smith? The player who scored a hattrick yesterday and who bullied our defence mercilessly for rotherham.

I'd have him here like a shot

[ncRover]

Agreed with Baz, a big lump like Matt Smith is no good.

Joe Ironside from Cambridge fits the bill, good in the air and hard working. 14 goals in L1 last season and 14 in L2 the season before getting Cambridge promoted. Is from Middlesbrough like Copps so could easily be talked in to a move up north. Out of contract.

Do you mean Michael Smith? The player who scored a hattrick yesterday and who bullied our defence mercilessly for rotherham.

I'd have him here like a shot

No Smith who’s at Salford ex-Millwall. Wouldn’t have him.

Josh Andrews couldn’t win a header and touch was awful.

Michael Smith yes but not a chance he drops down to L2.

Only Ironside and Bowman are upcoming free agents in the Chris Brown mould we have a realistic chance for in my opinion.

[roversdude]

Andrew’s actually looked decent in preseason but it never happened in the couple of games he played

[Branton Red]

If Schofield insists on continuing with the same tactics next season I agree that Rovers desperately need a physical striker capable of holding the ball up.

The gap between the lone centre forward and the supporting midfield is a chasm currently. The strikers we have are simply not strong/good enough to hold onto the ball long enough when it comes to them before the cavalry belatedly comes to their support.

However this will inevitably encourage even more long balls forward when we come under pressure.

I'm hoping (beyond hope) Schofield adapts his system with players of his choosing so that the forward (maybe even forwards) are supported much more quickly.

Then a big, physical striker is not a must. And we will hopefully see more football and more attacking football.

[tyke1962]

The old fashioned hold the ball up frontman is definitely a bit of a dying breed these days .

The wing back that can actually defend is another but for another conversation .

The game is quicker now and most HC's with at least half a clue know that the speed of the transition is fundamental to success .

HC's are more likely to want a player up front who has the nous and experience to buy the cheap free kick rather than hold the ball up and set up the set piece scenario .

Getting that ball in the opposition's defensive third quickly and in numbers is where it's at today in my opinion .

[ravenrover]

Agree Tyke but at this level there aren't many, if any, smaller strikers who can do that against the usual lumps at Centre back

[ncRover]

Agreed Raven. George Miller just doesn’t have the touch or technique for that.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The old fashioned hold the ball up frontman is definitely a bit of a dying breed these days .

The wing back that can actually defend is another but for another conversation .

The game is quicker now and most HC's with at least half a clue know that the speed of the transition is fundamental to success .

HC's are more likely to want a player up front who has the nous and experience to buy the cheap free kick rather than hold the ball up and set up the set piece scenario .

Getting that ball in the opposition's defensive third quickly and in numbers is where it's at today in my opinion .

That's what Schofield is aiming for although the evidence of that has been too few and far between.

The 'Transitions' as they call it have been too disjointed and there's reasons for that. For a start, we've only really had one ever present in midfield in Ben Close, and he's had more partners around him than Katie Price.

We remember fondly some of our attacking prowess of the past, including when we had Herbie Kane forging an almost telepathic combination with Copps, both linking play and punching holes in defences. Communication on our pitch has been by carrier pigeon more like.

At times, we have moved the ball quickly from the back to the final third but the quality of play and support for the ball carrier in that final third  has been poor overall. We just haven't committed in sufficient numbers to shift defences out of their comfort zone.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Agreed Raven. George Miller just doesn’t have the touch or technique for that.

That's a fair observation and it's something he has to work on however, he does have the movement and work rate to drag defenders where they don't want to go, and that's a key ingredient but we haven't had anywhere near enough players getting into the spaces he creates. Biggins should be one of those who gets beyond Miller into those spaces and he has done it but nowhere near enough probably through fear of leaving midfield light on numbers. Of course, our wide players like Hurst, Molyneux, Rowe etc should be exploiting space inside better.

[Chris Black come back]

Vadaine Olivier. Only making the bench this season for Bradford due to Cook. If they go up I can’t see him getting any more time.

[roversdude]

Agree with the above Miller has looked a lot poorer due to no support from our midfield, the same way our defence has coped poorly due to our midfield

[Butchers Red]

Hang on though - can you for one minute imagine any prospective centre forward choosing to come to us ??

In this system or process - it's like a turkey volunteering for Christmas.

[tyke1962]

It's very rare to see these days the old big un , little un combination up front .

Quinn and Phillips at Sunderland , Wilko and Hendrie at Oakwell , Brendan and Kitchen at Rovers .

Proper wingers like Ian Miller , Tony Towner at Rotherham or Stewart Barraclough at Oakwell feeding the strikers with a supply of crosses .

The games evolved and players today are expected to do more and have way more to their game , even keepers are judged as much on their ability with the ball at their feet , playing the last man sweeper role as well as their goalkeeping attributes .

Joe Hart was bombed out of The Ethiad not because he was a poor goalkeeper but because he wasn't too great at passing the ball .

Although nobody seems too bothered at Anfield that Trent can't defend for toffee or that his first job is to defend , clearly it isn't just as long as he creates or scores more goals than he actually gives away , it's debatable as to which comes out on top in my opinion .

How many times these days are you screaming for the ball to be put in the box from the wide areas only for the player to go back or inside .

Defences playing a higher line today make that tactic null and void , watch some footage on YouTube from the 70's and crosses were coming in from deep areas and leading to goals , just doesn't happen today .

Speed , athleticism , supreme fitness  and more strings to your bow are the requirements of today .

[ravenrover]

Not to mention a tiny bit of skill

[ncRover]

I thought the same at the start of the season Tyke but we have conceded a lot of goals from crosses, long throws and set pieces in league 2.

Perhaps it’s not necessary for a top L1 side but it’s very preferential to have the option of a physical striker as a league 2 side in my opinion.

[tyke1962]

I thought the same at the start of the season Tyke but we have conceded a lot of goals from crosses, long throws and set pieces in league 2.

Perhaps it’s not necessary for a top L1 side but it’s very preferential to have the option of a physical striker as a league 2 side in my opinion.

It most definitely is preferable to have physicality up top in league one but not in the old fashioned way .

At the top of this league you have Gregory , Smith and Windass at Wednesday , George Hirst at Ipswich and Norwood and Watters over here .

Norwood's game is based on physicality and confrontation but holding the ball up isn't what he's about , in fact he's not that good at it in all honesty .

Watters is slightly better but that's not his game either .

Carlton Morris from the last two season's the same , big strong lad but his game was way more than the old fashioned target man , hold the ball up merchant .

What coaches today are looking for is strength and physicality but facing the opposition goal .

The way young George Hirst shrugged off Mads Andersen on the half way line last Tuesday night at Oakwell as though he wasn't there and ran at speed before finishing clinically in to the bottom corner is in my opinion where the game today is at .

He bullied our three physical centre backs all night , we couldn't handle the lad .

Never saw the bugga hold the ball up once to any affect , he preferred to go down and win the free kick .

That's probably how he's been coached .

[Campsall rover]

It's very rare to see these days the old big un , little un combination up front .

Quinn and Phillips at Sunderland , Wilko and Hendrie at Oakwell , Brendan and Kitchen at Rovers .

Proper wingers like Ian Miller , Tony Towner at Rotherham or Stewart Barraclough at Oakwell feeding the strikers with a supply of crosses .

The games evolved and players today are expected to do more and have way more to their game , even keepers are judged as much on their ability with the ball at their feet , playing the last man sweeper role as well as their goalkeeping attributes .

Joe Hart was bombed out of The Ethiad not because he was a poor goalkeeper but because he wasn't too great at passing the ball .

Although nobody seems too bothered at Anfield that Trent can't defend for toffee or that his first job is to defend , clearly it isn't just as long as he creates or scores more goals than he actually gives away , it's debatable as to which comes out on top in my opinion .

How many times these days are you screaming for the ball to be put in the box from the wide areas only for the player to go back or inside .

Defences playing a higher line today make that tactic null and void , watch some footage on YouTube from the 70's and crosses were coming in from deep areas and leading to goals , just doesn't happen today .

Speed , athleticism , supreme fitness  and more strings to your bow are the requirements of today .

I agree with what you’re saying Tyke but this is League 2 and it’s not for the purist.
There just are not enough good technical players at this level to play a the perfect football game.

Good old fashioned proper defending and a centre forward who can put himself about a bit, hold the ball up
and score goals are the attributes needed. Pace on the flanks, a hard man in midfield and a box to box midfielder are also essentials to be successful at this level.

[tyke1962]

It's very rare to see these days the old big un , little un combination up front .

Quinn and Phillips at Sunderland , Wilko and Hendrie at Oakwell , Brendan and Kitchen at Rovers .

Proper wingers like Ian Miller , Tony Towner at Rotherham or Stewart Barraclough at Oakwell feeding the strikers with a supply of crosses .

The games evolved and players today are expected to do more and have way more to their game , even keepers are judged as much on their ability with the ball at their feet , playing the last man sweeper role as well as their goalkeeping attributes .

Joe Hart was bombed out of The Ethiad not because he was a poor goalkeeper but because he wasn't too great at passing the ball .

Although nobody seems too bothered at Anfield that Trent can't defend for toffee or that his first job is to defend , clearly it isn't just as long as he creates or scores more goals than he actually gives away , it's debatable as to which comes out on top in my opinion .

How many times these days are you screaming for the ball to be put in the box from the wide areas only for the player to go back or inside .

Defences playing a higher line today make that tactic null and void , watch some footage on YouTube from the 70's and crosses were coming in from deep areas and leading to goals , just doesn't happen today .

Speed , athleticism , supreme fitness  and more strings to your bow are the requirements of today .

I agree with what you’re saying Tyke but this is League 2 and it’s not for the purist.
There just are not enough good technical players at this level to play a the perfect football game.

Good old fashioned proper defending and a centre forward who can put himself about a bit, hold the ball up
and score goals are the attributes needed. Pace on the flanks, a hard man in midfield and a box to box midfielder are also essentials to be successful at this level.

I understand where you are coming from Campsall and you are dead right that some of the old ways still have impact status not only in league two but at every level .

Ipswich Town even factoring in the huge spend at league one level still had defenders who took no unnecessary risks and cleared their lines , there was very little fannying around at the back .

Morsy was the classic midfield ball winner and still the dirty bstrd he's always been .

Where we perhaps have a difference of opinion is in the offensive side of the game .

League Two it maybe but it's not Dinosaur land either .

A big bugga fine but he has to be able to run , be mobile , have a turn of pace with the physicality .

The only difference between George Hirst and his League Two counterpart is that Hirst can do it against better defences but that doesn't mean the League Two lad can't do it at the level he's at .

League Two defenders can and are bullied and they are bullied when they have to turn , when everything is in front of them then thats different .

[ncRover]

I think the game is always changing and evolving but some things are always valuable. Yes like you say Tyke, you have a strong tall player like Haaland who has pace and is actually more dangerous running behind and facing the opposition rather than back to play. But for De Bruyne’s goal against Arsenal he showed classic target man hold up play in what was a direct but very very good goal. Something Man City as trendsetters are doing increasingly.

Liverpool have stopped playing with Firmino who has world class hold up play in favour of Darwin Nunez (physical running at you type) and their dynamic has fallen apart this season.

A player like Harry Kane who is a midfielder and striker all in 1 could play in any era past, present or whatever the future holds.

Giroud another one still causing problems at international level at 36 years old. Superb player.

It’s about getting players to compliment what we already have and you will know George Millers strengths and weaknesses are.