Voter ID

[scawsby steve]

The pundits on Sky News have just summed it up. At a time when people are getting sick of politics and politicians, and have to be cajoled and persuaded to be bothered to turn out and vote, they're then told they have to produce ID to be able to vote.

If they persist with this at next year's GE, we can expect the lowest turnout in history.

[Ldr]

Worked a polling station today, 0 turned away, 0 from the other polling station in the same location too

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Still feels a minor issue to me. Of course we didn't vote in Doncaster today so no real thing.  The vast majority have ID and the free ID scheme seamt well publicised.

[Bentley Bullet]

Why should anyone be put out by having to produce ID?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because 6% of the population don't have "acceptable" photo ID. Which this Govt knows very well. And they have done next to zero to publicise the requirement.

And they have made a whole string of IDs that can only be held by pensioners acceptable, while banning a similar number that only young people have.

Draw your own conclusions why they are doing what the Republican Party in the States has been doing for 25 years.

[bpoolrover]

Because 6% of the population don't have "acceptable" photo ID. Which this Govt knows very well. And they have done next to zero to publicise the requirement.

And they have made a whole string of IDs that can only be held by pensioners acceptable, while banning a similar number that only young people have.

Draw your own conclusions why they are doing what the Republican Party in the States has been doing for 25 years.

i have had several things thru the post stating that you need id and what id is needed, it's been all over the news and social media for months now as well

[Donnywolf]

A colossal cost to "solve" a problem that REAL political afficiaonados said didn't and doesn't exist.

I venture that those who tried to cheat at last GE was under a handful (4) and prosecutions resulting , NIL

Memory not great so maybe slip between ears and brain

[Bentley Bullet]

A standard application for a citizen card costs £15 and takes up to 21 days.

Wolfie, I doubt very, VERY much that everyone who tried to cheat at the last GE was caught, and I'd bet my starboard knacker that there were certainly more than 4 people who tried to!

[i_ateallthepies]

A standard application for a citizen card costs £15 and takes up to 21 days.

Wolfie, I doubt very, VERY much that everyone who tried to cheat at the last GE was caught, and I'd bet my starboard knacker that there were certainly more than 4 people who tried to!

Yea, and I'd bet your other knacker they were all f*cking Tories.

[Bentley Bullet]

A standard application for a citizen card costs £15 and takes up to 21 days.

Wolfie, I doubt very, VERY much that everyone who tried to cheat at the last GE was caught, and I'd bet my starboard knacker that there were certainly more than 4 people who tried to!

Yea, and I'd bet your other knacker they were all f*cking Tories.

Still talking b*llocks I see, Mr Pies.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There was ONE successful prosecution for electoral fraud in 2019.

Consequence? We've gone into these elections with 2.5million people barred from voting.

This is how democracy slips away. This is an absolutely outrageous abuse of power.

And of course, to top it off, this has been done by the same Tory party that sent election leaflets to predominantly Labour supporting areas telling voters they didn't need photo ID to vote. They could just turn up without ID and it would be fine. THAT is cast iron electoral fraud from the centre of the Tory party. This whole affair is about trying to engineer for as many non-Tories as possible to be barred from voting. Anyone shrugging at this is either not paying attention or doesn't care about democracy.

[Donnywolf]

.... and most of the Leaflets were printed with Green background and distributed by Tory MPs who stated (as an example) proud to be the MP for Upper Grunting but surprisingly didn't add the words Tory MP on any part of the Leaflets

[Glyn_Wigley]

A standard application for a citizen card costs £15 and takes up to 21 days.

Wolfie, I doubt very, VERY much that everyone who tried to cheat at the last GE was caught, and I'd bet my starboard knacker that there were certainly more than 4 people who tried to!

Eligibility to vote is a universal right. Not something you should have to pay for. You want prople to produce photo ID? Provide it to them for free.

[Ldr]

A standard application for a citizen card costs £15 and takes up to 21 days.

Wolfie, I doubt very, VERY much that everyone who tried to cheat at the last GE was caught, and I'd bet my starboard knacker that there were certainly more than 4 people who tried to!

Eligibility to vote is a universal right. Not something you should have to pay for. You want prople to produce photo ID? Provide it to them for free.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

There you go Glyn

[Ldr]

Ps, had a couple of these at my station yesterday!

[Donnywolf]

Anecdotally there were loads of people including some Candidates which (anecdotally too ) is against the Law


What they (anecdotally) trying to do is turn any potential Voter without id around to get their id OR if they didn't have any at home just turn them away


Why ? Anecdotally they wanted to be able to say only 1% of people we're denied a Vote at the Polling Station because they had to record each one including those who went home


However if your friendly Councillor or potential Councillor intercepted the 2 groups I mentioned above then they would not be counted because they never made it far enough to be counted


Suppress the Vote yep

Suppress the figures to make it look less suppressed yep


Anecdotally of course

[Ldr]

DW correct about the recording mate, I couldn’t comment on the rest though as was inside the station all day

[Donnywolf]

Yes , I've seen reports from lots of people inside to know that but was true.

Others many others saying there were "interceptors" or " greeters " outside helping to filter out the ones with no Id with them or no Id at all specifically to stop them getting inside and "bloating" the real figures

[Bentley Bullet]

Because 6% of the population don't have "acceptable" photo ID. Which this Govt knows very well. And they have done next to zero to publicise the requirement.

And they have made a whole string of IDs that can only be held by pensioners acceptable, while banning a similar number that only young people have.

Draw your own conclusions why they are doing what the Republican Party in the States has been doing for 25 years.

There was ONE successful prosecution for electoral fraud in 2019.

Consequence? We've gone into these elections with 2.5million people barred from voting.

This is how democracy slips away. This is an absolutely outrageous abuse of power.


And of course, to top it off, this has been done by the same Tory party that sent election leaflets to predominantly Labour supporting areas telling voters they didn't need photo ID to vote. They could just turn up without ID and it would be fine. THAT is cast iron electoral fraud from the centre of the Tory party. This whole affair is about trying to engineer for as many non-Tories as possible to be barred from voting. Anyone shrugging at this is either not paying attention or doesn't care about democracy.

Many countries in Europe require ID cards to vote, including Northern Ireland. Does that mean their democracy is slipping away and they don't care about it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because 6% of the population don't have "acceptable" photo ID. Which this Govt knows very well. And they have done next to zero to publicise the requirement.

And they have made a whole string of IDs that can only be held by pensioners acceptable, while banning a similar number that only young people have.

Draw your own conclusions why they are doing what the Republican Party in the States has been doing for 25 years.

There was ONE successful prosecution for electoral fraud in 2019.

Consequence? We've gone into these elections with 2.5million people barred from voting.

This is how democracy slips away. This is an absolutely outrageous abuse of power.


And of course, to top it off, this has been done by the same Tory party that sent election leaflets to predominantly Labour supporting areas telling voters they didn't need photo ID to vote. They could just turn up without ID and it would be fine. THAT is cast iron electoral fraud from the centre of the Tory party. This whole affair is about trying to engineer for as many non-Tories as possible to be barred from voting. Anyone shrugging at this is either not paying attention or doesn't care about democracy.

Many countries in Europe require ID cards to vote, including Northern Ireland. Does that mean their democracy is slipping away and they don't care about it?

The point is, how you implement it.

I shouldn't really have to explain this, should I?

[Bentley Bullet]

 Since 2014, the Electoral Commission has recommended that ID should be required in Great Britain before voters are issued with a ballot paper.

In the United Kingdom, the Electoral Commission is the national election commission, created in 2001 as a result of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. It is an independent agency that regulates party and election finance and sets standards for how elections should be run.

You're right, of course in that you shouldn't have to explain your point. My point is, of course, that I didn't request it.

[wilts rover]

Since 2014, the Electoral Commission has recommended that ID should be required in Great Britain before voters are issued with a ballot paper.

In the United Kingdom, the Electoral Commission is the national election commission, created in 2001 as a result of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. It is an independent agency that regulates party and election finance and sets standards for how elections should be run.

You're right, of course in that you shouldn't have to explain your point. My point is, of course, that I didn't request it.

How do you stop fraudulent postal voting? Where you don't need ID? And can have your vote sent to local Tory Party HQ's instead of Electoral Registration Officers - fraudulently.

[Bentley Bullet]

To apply for postal votes, voters must download, print and fill in an application form, which they then send to the electoral services team at their council. Identification is taken from the information declared.

[Branton Red]

If this policy was really put in place to reduce electoral fraud then it is a waste of time. The majority of us get personally addressed polling cards to take to the polling stations which identify us. It would be virtually impossible to instigate a voter fraud big enough to swing a parliamentary constituency/even local council vote based on people visiting polling stations.

There is only one logical motivation for bringing this law into place.

Despicable, grossly unfair and wholly undemocratic from the Tories this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Since 2014, the Electoral Commission has recommended that ID should be required in Great Britain before voters are issued with a ballot paper.

In the United Kingdom, the Electoral Commission is the national election commission, created in 2001 as a result of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. It is an independent agency that regulates party and election finance and sets standards for how elections should be run.

You're right, of course in that you shouldn't have to explain your point. My point is, of course, that I didn't request it.

Once again, you entirely miss the point in your insistence on arguing.

The issue isn't about whether we should require photo ID to vote. It is about implementing that requirement in a way that is designed to exclude certain groups and aid other groups.

But, since you raised the Electoral Commission's view on photo ID, let's follow that up and see where it leads. Their line back in 2014 was that electoral fraud was pretty much insignificant.

But.

They acknowledged that many voters were convinced that fraud was widespread, and those voters required their confidence in the system to be strengthened.

Now, a sensible Government could have gone out of its way to make the point, passionately, convincingly and with support from the evidence, that voter fraud was rarer than rocking horse shite. And that, in a country that has steadfastly rejected the idea of compulsory ID cards, there was no need to have voter ID.

Heck, they could even have taken the EC approach and said that voter fraud was negligible, but voter ID was required to underpin voters' confidence in the system.

But this one didn't. It pushed the line that voter fraud was so serious that we had to have voter ID. Then it totally ignored criticisms from across the political spectrum that it was rushing through the legislation, that it was not publicising the need for voter ID, that it was not properly funding the process of offering voter ID cards and that it was allowing pensioners to use a plethora of  forms of ID, while barring young people from using similar ones.

[wilts rover]

To apply for postal votes, voters must download, print and fill in an application form, which they then send to the electoral services team at their council. Identification is taken from the information declared.

How do they know the person who has downloaded and sent off the form is the person whose name is on it?

[Bentley Bullet]

Since 2014, the Electoral Commission has recommended that ID should be required in Great Britain before voters are issued with a ballot paper.

In the United Kingdom, the Electoral Commission is the national election commission, created in 2001 as a result of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. It is an independent agency that regulates party and election finance and sets standards for how elections should be run.

You're right, of course in that you shouldn't have to explain your point. My point is, of course, that I didn't request it.

Once again, you entirely miss the point in your insistence on arguing.

The issue isn't about whether we should require photo ID to vote. It is about implementing that requirement in a way that is designed to exclude certain groups and aid other groups.

But, since you raised the Electoral Commission's view on photo ID, let's follow that up and see where it leads. Their line back in 2014 was that electoral fraud was pretty much insignificant.

But.

They acknowledged that many voters were convinced that fraud was widespread, and those voters required their confidence in the system to be strengthened.

Now, a sensible Government could have gone out of its way to make the point, passionately, convincingly and with support from the evidence, that voter fraud was rarer than rocking horse shite. And that, in a country that has steadfastly rejected the idea of compulsory ID cards, there was no need to have voter ID.

Heck, they could even have taken the EC approach and said that voter fraud was negligible, but voter ID was required to underpin voters' confidence in the system.

But this one didn't. It pushed the line that voter fraud was so serious that we had to have voter ID. Then it totally ignored criticisms from across the political spectrum that it was rushing through the legislation, that it was not publicising the need for voter ID, that it was not properly funding the process of offering voter ID cards and that it was allowing pensioners to use a plethora of  forms of ID, while barring young people from using similar ones.

MY insistence on arguing? You've either lost all sense of reality or you're having a laugh, and seeing as there's not much evidence of you possessing a sense of humour I sense you have finally arrived at the former.

Let's do this one paragraph at a time so you can't do what you do best - avoid answering questions.

If "the issue isn't about whether we should require photo ID to vote", why do you keep making it an issue by saying voter fraud is rare?

How do you know it is rare?

If, as is reported, it is designed to exclude certain groups, such as senior citizens, doesn't this play into the Labour Party's hands seeing as (according to you) the vast majority of senior citizens support the Tories?

[Bentley Bullet]

To apply for postal votes, voters must download, print and fill in an application form, which they then send to the electoral services team at their council. Identification is taken from the information declared.

How do they know the person who has downloaded and sent off the form is the person whose name is on it?

There is no such thing as a perfect solution to fraud, is there?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Since 2014, the Electoral Commission has recommended that ID should be required in Great Britain before voters are issued with a ballot paper.

In the United Kingdom, the Electoral Commission is the national election commission, created in 2001 as a result of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. It is an independent agency that regulates party and election finance and sets standards for how elections should be run.

You're right, of course in that you shouldn't have to explain your point. My point is, of course, that I didn't request it.

Once again, you entirely miss the point in your insistence on arguing.

The issue isn't about whether we should require photo ID to vote. It is about implementing that requirement in a way that is designed to exclude certain groups and aid other groups.

But, since you raised the Electoral Commission's view on photo ID, let's follow that up and see where it leads. Their line back in 2014 was that electoral fraud was pretty much insignificant.

But.

They acknowledged that many voters were convinced that fraud was widespread, and those voters required their confidence in the system to be strengthened.

Now, a sensible Government could have gone out of its way to make the point, passionately, convincingly and with support from the evidence, that voter fraud was rarer than rocking horse shite. And that, in a country that has steadfastly rejected the idea of compulsory ID cards, there was no need to have voter ID.

Heck, they could even have taken the EC approach and said that voter fraud was negligible, but voter ID was required to underpin voters' confidence in the system.

But this one didn't. It pushed the line that voter fraud was so serious that we had to have voter ID. Then it totally ignored criticisms from across the political spectrum that it was rushing through the legislation, that it was not publicising the need for voter ID, that it was not properly funding the process of offering voter ID cards and that it was allowing pensioners to use a plethora of  forms of ID, while barring young people from using similar ones.

MY insistence on arguing? You've either lost all sense of reality or you're having a laugh, and seeing as there's not much evidence of you possessing a sense of humour I sense you have finally arrived at the former.

Let's do this one paragraph at a time so you can't do what you do best - avoid answering questions.

If "the issue isn't about whether we should require photo ID to vote", why do you keep making it an issue by saying voter fraud is rare?

How do you know it is rare?

If, as is reported, it is designed to exclude certain groups, such as senior citizens, doesn't this play into the Labour Party's hands seeing as (according to you) the vast majority of senior citizens support the Tories?

1) I know it's rare because the very EC that you so approvingly quoted sat so themselves.

2) Read what I wrote. The Tories are making it disproportionately harder for young people, not old people. They have made a string of IDs that many pensioners have (a whole set of travel passes for example) acceptable forms of ID, while refusing to accept young people's travel passes, University or college ID cards etc.

3) It's not "according to me" that old people disproportionately vote Tory. It's evidence supported by every poll, every week, month and year.

See, I try not to make wild claims unless they can be backed up by evidence. I leave that to people who are more interested in arguing for arguing sake.

[wilts rover]

To apply for postal votes, voters must download, print and fill in an application form, which they then send to the electoral services team at their council. Identification is taken from the information declared.

How do they know the person who has downloaded and sent off the form is the person whose name is on it?

There is no such thing as a perfect solution to fraud, is there?

But people are telling me Voter ID is the answer to it? Postal voting has - and always will be - the most likely source of fraud.