Does America...

[Dutch Uncle]

Doesn't Putin have something on him since he judged Miss Universe in Moscow, probably something planted in his hotel room, either a camera or microphone, just rumours  and accounts for the lack of criticism

That might just be part of it. I think there may well have been financial aspects as well. The Steele dossier had a lot if things in it. I think some of Trump's debts were covered by a Russian bank. Either way Trump does not want to annoy Putin.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The word from ex-KGB officers is that they targeted Trump from the 1980s as someone who might be a useful asset.

It's not always money that's necessary. The story is that they identified him as someone who could become a prominent figure, but who was intellectually weak and emotionally immature. So they played on his narcissistic side. Told him how impressed they were with his intellect and strategic thinking. Told him he was the sort of person that America needed. Maybe even at the higher levels of politics one day.

It makes sense as a story. Trump has made money (maybe, maybe not) but he never had respect from the top of American society. He was belittled. Made fun of. Maybe there's a part of him that's still the little boy who was never loved by his father. And he found respect from the Russians. And he clings to that.

Either that or maybe they just have a video of him being w**ked off by someone with a Putin face mask on.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I dont think Trump is any friend of Putin, just that Trump is easy to play for Putin. The Republicans strangely struggle.

Interesting the difference in how Navalny is treated, and then over here we have the treatment that was dished out to, for example, Corbyn. Same issues, same effect, just a different style.

Yeah Corbyn was poisoned, arrested and thrown in jail on trumped up charges eh?

Your statements get madder by the posts

I covered that. My point was on the effect of power elites, not their means.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Trump, the man who facilitated an armed attack on Congress and who is now facing three criminal trial said last night on social media "IF YOU COME AFTER ME, I'M COMING AFTER YOU".

Seems like a clear case of witness intimidation to add to the list.

[BillyStubbsTears]

...and contempt of court.

https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1688221018693742593

[drfchound]

Surely if he has committed contempt of court he will suffer the penalty for that offence.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well this explains a lot about why Trump is so popular. Many if his supporters don't trust those closest to them to be honest with them.

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1693267774313759209

It's a truly dystopian nightmare. People used to living around liars giving a pass to the greatest liar in American political history.

[MachoMadness]

A historic image.

[ravenrover]

What a d!ck!!

[glosterred]

Self declared his weight as 215lbs (just over 15 stone) might start self declaring my weight as 9 stone now!

[Iberian Red]

What was his hair description? Natural,full headed?

[glosterred]

What was his hair description? Natural,full headed?

Nicked from Twitter or X if you like

Donald Trump self-declares his weight as 215lbs, his height as 6 foot 3…and his hair as bountiful/plentiful…

I’d have put his hair down as a comb over myself

[BillyStubbsTears]

A historic image.

Truly is a historic image. The US President who tried to overthrow US democracy. One that will be in the history books in 500 years.

I wonder how things might have panned out differently if his dad had told him he loved him? Or just not been a Kitson.

[MachoMadness]

Trump is already using the mugshot as the central image of his campaign. You can already buy it on a t-shirt.

Bizarre timeline where he wins the nomination at a canter despite having all this hanging over him. And he will. Then America has a real problem to sort out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It was inevitable that it'd come to this.

Influential people in the Republicans m, like Newt Gingrich, realised in the 90s that the tide of history was moving against them. The Reagan Revolution had done what the Republicans wanted - massively tipped the balance of wealth away from ordinary people and towards the rich. That's a stone cold fact.

But how do you keep on having a chance to win elections when you are sitting on the economic prospects of millions of people whose votes you need?

Gingrich and others were up front about it. They couldn't win if the battle was based on established facts. They realised that the Republicans' only chance was Culture War. Tell a consistent story to people who are working hard and getting no better off: it's obvious who the problem us - liberal city dwellers: college graduates: people who refuse God's Will like gays and single mothers and abortionists: moochers who stay in bed and get benefits: and many of them are blacks and the f**king libs won't even let you call a black what your grandpappy used to call them.

Consistent line for years from shock jocks and Fox News.

And you end up with a criminal and insurrectionist putting himself up as the victim of The Elite - and 40% of the population agree with him.

And you’ve now got Ramaswamy going on stage at events shouting at people "You know who's to blame for 6th Jan? The Government who imposed lockdowns. The "protest" was just a reaction to that."

And that's where the Republicans are. Dominated by a criminal monster. The future belonging to a chancer who justifies an attempted coup and vilifies Government that took drastic action to save maybe a million lives.

At best, it's going to be a 50 year job to drain the infection out of the right of American politics. Let demographics do the job as the population becomes more urban, less white and more educated.

But that's the best case. The worst is that Trump comes rolling back in seething with vengeance and we see a true collapse into American Facism.

[MachoMadness]

Largely agree with that, BST. Fascists are already at the door, radicalised through years of Murdoch bullshit and online subcultures. The only question is, are Americans going to let them in to run the government or are they going to be repelled violently. Those are the only 2 options. One way or another there's going to be violence before this election cycle is over, unfortunately.

[Branton Red]

At best, it's going to be a 50 year job to drain the infection out of the right of American politics. Let demographics do the job as the population becomes more urban, less white and more educated.

This sums up the the intellectual vacuum of the "intellectual" Left (I use the quotation marks advisedly) on their approach to dealing with Trump.

People are not stupid.

People are certainly not irredeemably stupid. Whether because of how poor they are, how educated they are, where they're from or the colour of their skin. To think such a thing is abhorrent.

People can be persuaded to think stupidly and make stupid decisions. Playing on people's emotions is a big influence in this process.

The Democrats/political Left en masse continue to play into Trump's hands.

The Lefts strategy on Trump is: He's an idiot; You're all idiots for voting for him; Please vote differently next time idiots; and then to complain uncomprehendingly that these "idiots" are still not voting for them!

How about instead: Putting up a credible (even coherent) candidate; Putting out a positive message of hope on how to improve people's lives; attacking the Republicans on policy and past performance rather than on personality.

Play the Ball not the Man. Doing the latter is continually playing into Trump's hands.

The way to drain the infection out of the right of American politics is to defeat it time and again at the ballot box

[Iberian Red]

BR people only think like that because of the woke,virtue signallers at the BBC ramming it down our throats.

Oh,sorry,I've confused that with the Women's World Cup.

[Branton Red]

BR people only think like that because of the woke,virtue signallers at the BBC ramming it down our throats.

Oh,sorry,I've confused that with the Women's World Cup.

I wanted them to win. However delighted it’s not going to be wall to wall flag for waving coverage from virtue signallers. I hate it how they ram their woke agenda down our throats.

Wondered what on Earth you were referring to there Iberian.

A case of mistaken identity - a different Branton R.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BR

Have you looked at:

a) What's actually going on in the US economy at the moment?

b) How the US right wing media, led by Fox, are presenting it

b) What Republican supporters think is happenening in the US economy according to opinion polls.

Go and do some digging into it. Then come back and tell me what the Democrats are supposed to do.

[Iberian Red]

BR people only think like that because of the woke,virtue signallers at the BBC ramming it down our throats.

Oh,sorry,I've confused that with the Women's World Cup.

I wanted them to win. However delighted it’s not going to be wall to wall flag for waving coverage from virtue signallers. I hate it how they ram their woke agenda down our throats.

Wondered what on Earth you were referring to there Iberian.

A case of mistaken identity - a different Branton R.

My apologies! I presumed it was the same one!

[BillyStubbsTears]

While you're at it, tell me how the Democrats are supposed to reach out to the 87% of Republican supporters in a recent poll who said that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted for inciting an attempted coup.

You don't defeat ignorance and collective insanity by meeting it halfway.

As I said in my original post on this theme, the current state of the Republican party base is the consequence of a deliberate policy of weaning them off truth for decades. Look at how few of them trust the scientific method. Look at how many of them believe the literal truth of Genesis over evolution. There's no way to win those people back without losing the very battle you need to win.

[danumdon]

At best, it's going to be a 50 year job to drain the infection out of the right of American politics. Let demographics do the job as the population becomes more urban, less white and more educated.

This sums up the the intellectual vacuum of the "intellectual" Left (I use the quotation marks advisedly) on their approach to dealing with Trump.

People are not stupid.

People are certainly not irredeemably stupid. Whether because of how poor they are, how educated they are, where they're from or the colour of their skin. To think such a thing is abhorrent.

People can be persuaded to think stupidly and make stupid decisions. Playing on people's emotions is a big influence in this process.

The Democrats/political Left en masse continue to play into Trump's hands.

The Lefts strategy on Trump is: He's an idiot; You're all idiots for voting for him; Please vote differently next time idiots; and then to complain uncomprehendingly that these "idiots" are still not voting for them!

How about instead: Putting up a credible (even coherent) candidate; Putting out a positive message of hope on how to improve people's lives; attacking the Republicans on policy and past performance rather than on personality.

Play the Ball not the Man. Doing the latter is continually playing into Trump's hands.

The way to drain the infection out of the right of American politics is to defeat it time and again at the ballot box

You'd of thought the "intellectual left" both in the states and our motley representation this side of the pond would of learnt from last time that their constant goading of the Republicans and Trump in particular did them absolutely no favours at all.

This has leanings towards the lefts campaign during the Brexit referendum, talking down to a stubborn electorate has never worked yet.

Do you think they will get the message this time, i very much doubt it and consequently play right into the hands of dangerous people like this man.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just stop and think what DD and BR are saying here.


"Yes, of course Trump is a criminal and a would-be insurrectionist but its the fault of people on the Left that people on the Right adore him."

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh yeah. "And the people on the Right aren't stupid..."

[Branton Red]

BR people only think like that because of the woke,virtue signallers at the BBC ramming it down our throats.

Oh,sorry,I've confused that with the Women's World Cup.

I wanted them to win. However delighted it’s not going to be wall to wall flag for waving coverage from virtue signallers. I hate it how they ram their woke agenda down our throats.

Wondered what on Earth you were referring to there Iberian.

A case of mistaken identity - a different Branton R.

My apologies! I presumed it was the same one!

No problem mate

[danumdon]

Just stop and think what DD and BR are saying here.


"Yes, of course Trump is a criminal and a would-be insurrectionist but its the fault of people on the Left that people on the Right adore him."

So, like usual the left paraphrasing what someone  has said with their own version of what they would like it to be.

And as usual BST you get it wrong again,

Nothing changes, and you wonder why the populace can't abide the left's attitudes to everything and everyone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DD
Tell me how I'm supposed to interpret this other than how I did.

"Do you think they will get the message this time, i very much doubt it and consequently play right into the hands of dangerous people like this man."

You have a situation where 87% of Republican voters think Trump shouldn't be prosecuted for attempting to overthrow democracy.

How is the Left supposed to reach out to those people? Tell them "yes, we hear you and we respect your opinions and we will accommodate them in our policy on the protection of democracy"?

[drfchound]

At best, it's going to be a 50 year job to drain the infection out of the right of American politics. Let demographics do the job as the population becomes more urban, less white and more educated.

This sums up the the intellectual vacuum of the "intellectual" Left (I use the quotation marks advisedly) on their approach to dealing with Trump.

People are not stupid.

People are certainly not irredeemably stupid. Whether because of how poor they are, how educated they are, where they're from or the colour of their skin. To think such a thing is abhorrent.

People can be persuaded to think stupidly and make stupid decisions. Playing on people's emotions is a big influence in this process.

The Democrats/political Left en masse continue to play into Trump's hands.

The Lefts strategy on Trump is: He's an idiot; You're all idiots for voting for him; Please vote differently next time idiots; and then to complain uncomprehendingly that these "idiots" are still not voting for them!

How about instead: Putting up a credible (even coherent) candidate; Putting out a positive message of hope on how to improve people's lives; attacking the Republicans on policy and past performance rather than on personality.

Play the Ball not the Man. Doing the latter is continually playing into Trump's hands.

The way to drain the infection out of the right of American politics is to defeat it time and again at the ballot box

You'd of thought the "intellectual left" both in the states and our motley representation this side of the pond would of learnt from last time that their constant goading of the Republicans and Trump in particular did them absolutely no favours at all.

This has leanings towards the lefts campaign during the Brexit referendum, talking down to a stubborn electorate has never worked yet.

Do you think they will get the message this time, i very much doubt it and consequently play right into the hands of dangerous people like this man.

Presciscely danumdon. I have read several posts over the years on here where Labour supporters have called Tory voters idiots for voting for their preferred Party.
It is no different to the approach that bst is talking about in the USA.

[Branton Red]

Just stop and think what DD and BR are saying here.


"Yes, of course Trump is a criminal and a would-be insurrectionist but its the fault of people on the Left that people on the Right adore him."

I'm not saying that whatsoever. Please do not represent me.

I'm querying the strategy the Left have adopted in trying to defeat Trump. Go do some digging into US polling if you doubt this needs questioning.

I'm not advocating meeting Trump or his die hard supporters half-way. Or anything like that

I'm advocating positive campaigning based on policy over negative campaigning based on personality.

I'm advocating treating people as intelligent sentient beings and appealing to them as such over telling them how stupid and wrong they are and thereby implying (to them) how inferior they are.

It's not hard to see why someone who thinks a large part of an electorate is "ignorant" and "collectively insane" would disagree with me on this.

Believing in democracy is about believing in the people and respecting the people. If you don't have the courage to do that and behave accordingly you've politically lost the battle.