Why has Sunak changed Tory Green Policies?

[wilts rover]

Anyone wondering why Sunak has changed the Tories stance on Green policies? Other than to annoy Johnson who ran and won in 2019 on them. And follow Truss who said on Monday he should do what he did on Thursday.

Wonder no more:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunaks-family-firm-signed-a-billion-dollar-deal-with-bp-before-pm-opened-new-north-sea-licences-353690/

[Sprotyrover]

Anyone wondering why Sunak has changed the Tories stance on Green policies? Other than to annoy Johnson who ran and won in 2019 on them. And follow Truss who said on Monday he should do what he did on Thursday.

Wonder no more:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunaks-family-firm-signed-a-billion-dollar-deal-with-bp-before-pm-opened-new-north-sea-licences-353690/

And here was me thinking he did it to win votes from folks who would be 10/15 £k poorer if this stuff was forced in by 2030!

[wilts rover]

Anyone wondering why Sunak has changed the Tories stance on Green policies? Other than to annoy Johnson who ran and won in 2019 on them. And follow Truss who said on Monday he should do what he did on Thursday.

Wonder no more:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunaks-family-firm-signed-a-billion-dollar-deal-with-bp-before-pm-opened-new-north-sea-licences-353690/

And here was me thinking he did it to win votes from folks who would be 10/15 £k poorerer if this stuff was forced in by 2030!

Same folks who voted for them in 2019? Or different ones?

And just a total coincidence he & his family have billions invested in fossil fuels then? Hmmm....

[tommy toes]

He saw the result of the Uxbridge by election and thought... Aha!

Bollicks to future generations. It's the jam today brigade he's after.

[wilts rover]

But he missed Mid Suffolk. Which changed from Tory to Green in the May Local Elections.

Chasing the few far-right voters who have gone to Reform he underestimates how decent a lot of rural Tories are - and how much they care about the environment. Good luck in Mid Beds next month.

[wilts rover]

2. Costs to consumers

The claim: Sunak said people who disagreed with him must explain why they want families to have to pay an extra £5,000, £10,000 or £15,000.

It was unclear, but Sunak may have been referring to the cost of installing heat pumps over gas boilers. The average cost of installing heat pumps is coming down, however, something the prime minister acknowledged when he said the cost of transition was falling faster than anyone had thought.

Octopus Energy has just unveiled a heat pump for a three-bedroom home that would cost £3,000 after the government’s boiler upgrade grant. Octopus said that with the increase announced by Sunak of the boiler upgrade grant from £5,000 to £7,500, an average home could get a heat pump for as little as £500 – not a figure mentioned by Sunak.

Mark Maslin, a professor of climatology at University College London, said: “His excuse again and again … is not to put the cost burden on the public – as if it is individuals that have to pay for the net zero transition. The prime minister seems to forget that government is there to enable major infrastructure changes, and the switch to renewable energy, electric cars and heat exchangers should be supported because all of them in the long run save people money and improve people’s health.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/21/factchecking-rishi-sunak-claims-on-the-net-zero-transition

Still some Sunak will believe his lies whatever the actual facts are. Must have gone to the same public school. Oh well, says more about them than him.

[wilts rover]

And now - Sunak's policy changes could COST Uk households up to £8 BILLION (if gas prices remain the same) and up to £150 BILLION (if they spike) again.

https://eciu.net/media/press-releases/2023/pms-net-zero-changes-could-cost-households-up-to-8bn

Of course if they do spike again Sunak and his family will get even richer...

Vote Tory.

[SydneyRover]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2023/sep/21/ben-jennings-rishi-sunak-green-u-turn-cartoon

[albie]

Sunak is looking to raise political capital from a wedge issue.
So the plan is to announce a series of changes that will not add up to a hill of beans, and will be revised by the next government.

The EV revolution is expanding rapidly, and with BYD offering price parity by March 2024, the deal is done.
No-one is going to be making ICE by 2035, any car maker who has not transitioned to EV by 2026 is toast...they won't be around.
Hence the hissy fit by Ford and the trade body SMMT.

Innovation in the heat pump sector means that gas boilers will be obsolete, on grounds of both efficiency and cost, in the near future.
The manufacturers are buying time to retool their operations, prior to switching over.

So the whole performance is a distinction without a difference.
New tech displaces old tech quickly when costs fall....this always happens!

[ncRover]

The UK has reduced its carbon emissions since 1990 more than Japan, Canada, USA, France and Germany.

If you’re right on everything there Albie then we will achieve Net Zero in a more organic fashion.

Pushing the new ICE car ban to 2035 is still in line with the EU, no?

[SydneyRover]

If all this new information was known and viable why was the original route to net zero so different?

what has changed?

[SydneyRover]

''UK's path to net zero set out in landmark strategy''

''Net Zero Strategy sets out how the UK will deliver on its commitment to reach net zero emissions by 2050
outlines measures to transition to a green and sustainable future, helping businesses and consumers to move to clean power, supporting hundreds of thousands of well-paid jobs and leveraging up to £90 billion of private investment by 2030
reducing Britain’s reliance on imported fossil fuels will protect consumers from global price spikes by boosting clean energy
it comes as the UK prepares to host the UN COP26 summit next week, where the Prime Minister will call on other world economies to set out their own domestic plans for cutting emissions''

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uks-path-to-net-zero-set-out-in-landmark-strategy

but this of course was way back in .............. 2021



nobody makes it up like we do

vote tory

[danumdon]

If all this new information was known and viable why was the original route to net zero so different?

what has changed?

I'm not sure if they have internet on the moon but,

Cost of living crisis, war in Europe, inflation through the roof, mortgage rates quadrupled and a sense of misery and foreboding at what's to come next.

[SydneyRover]

Chicken feed compared to the consequences of not solving climate change, what will you tell your grandkids?

[SydneyRover]

From the government link above ................... 2021

''As part of the strategy, new investment announced today includes:

an extra £350 million of our up to £1 billion commitment to support the electrification of UK vehicles and their supply chains and another £620 million for targeted electric vehicle grants and infrastructure, particularly local on-street residential charge points, with plans to put thousands more zero emission cars and vans onto UK roads through a zero emission vehicle mandate
we are also working to kick-start the commercialisation of sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) made from sustainable materials such as everyday household waste, flue gases from industry, carbon captured from the atmosphere and excess electricity, which produce over 70% fewer carbon emissions than traditional jet fuel on a lifecycle basis. Our ambition is to enable the delivery of 10% SAF by 2030 and we will be supporting UK industry with £180 million in funding to support the development of UK SAF plants
£140 million Industrial and Hydrogen Revenue Support scheme to accelerate industrial carbon capture and hydrogen, bridging the gap between industrial energy costs from gas and hydrogen and helping green hydrogen projects get off the ground. Two carbon capture clusters - Hynet Cluster in North West England and North Wales and the East Coast Cluster in Teesside and the Humber - will put our industrial heartlands at the forefront of this technology in the 2020s and revitalise industries in the North Sea – backed by the government’s £1 billion in support
an extra £500 million towards innovation projects to develop the green technologies of the future, bringing the total funding for net zero research and innovation to at least £1.5 billion. This will support the most pioneering ideas and technologies to decarbonise our homes, industries, land and power
£3.9 billion of new funding for decarbonising heat and buildings, including the new £450 million 3-year Boiler Upgrade Scheme, so homes and buildings are warmer, cheaper to heat and cleaner to run
£124 million boost to our Nature for Climate Fund helping us towards meeting our commitments to restore approximately 280,000 hectares of peat in England by 2050 and treble woodland creation in England to meet our commitments to create at least 30,000 hectares of woodland per year across the UK by the end of this parliament
£120 million towards the development of nuclear projects through the Future Nuclear Enabling Fund. There remain a number of optimal sites, including the Wylfa site in Anglesey. Funding like this could support our path to decarbonising the UK’s electricity system fifteen years earlier from 2050 to 2035
The policies and spending brought forward in the Net Zero Strategy mean that since the Ten Point Plan, we have mobilised £26 billion of government capital investment for the green industrial revolution. More than £5.8 billion of foreign investment in green projects has also been secured since the launch of the Ten Point Plan, along with at least 56,000 jobs in the UK’s clean industries – and another 18 deals have been set out at the Global Investment Summit to support growth in vital sectors such as wind and hydrogen energy, sustainable homes and carbon capture and storage.

Through energy efficiency measures, falling costs of renewables and more, the measures in the strategy also mean people’s energy bills will be lower by 2024 than if no action was taken particularly as gas prices rise.

As the first major economy to commit in law to net zero by 2050 and hosts of the historic UN COP26 climate summit, the UK is leading international efforts and setting the bar for countries around the world to follow. The UK has hit every carbon budget to date - today’s Net Zero Strategy sets out clear policies and proposals for meeting our fourth and fifth carbon budgets, and keeps us on track for carbon budget 6, our ambitious Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC), while setting out a vision for a decarbonised economy in 2050.

[SydneyRover]

''Flood risk and the UK

How will flood risk to the UK change in future - and are we prepared?''

''In the UK, the top 10 warmest years have all occurred since 2002. The longest-running instrumental record of temperature in the world, run by the Met Office’s Central England Temperature data sets, reveals that 2009-2018 was around 1°C warmer than 1850-1900. Several other records have been broken too:

The winter of 2013/14 was the wettest winter since records began in 1910. Of the top ten wettest winters, four have occurred since 2007 and seven since 1990.
December 2015 was not only the wettest December on record, but also the wettest calendar month overall since records began in 1910.
February 2020 was the wettest February on record for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the second wettest for Scotland.
The rainfall from Storm Desmond in 2015 also broke records; Honister, Cumbria, received 341mm (13.4 in) within 24 hours, breaking the November 2009 record of 316.4mm.
The Thames Barrier
The Thames Barrier was closed more than 50 times in the 2013/14 winter - comfortably a record. Image: Chris Wheal, Creative Commons licence
And, heavy rains are becoming even more common. According to the Met Office, the most recent decade (2009-2018) has been on average 1% wetter than 1981-2010 and 5% wetter than 1961-1990 for the UK overall – and the amount of rain from extremely wet days has increased by 17% when looking at the same periods.

''Flooding projections

Climate change has made the devastating events, such as Storm Desmond in 2015, 59% more likely, according to research conducted by Oxford University and the Royal Meteorological Institute''

Flood damage currently costs the UK around £1.3 billion each year; the total economic damages for England from the winter 2015 to 2016 floods were estimated to around £1.6 billion, with 32% of total damages occurring to the business sector.

Low income households are amongst the most at risk to flooding and the detrimental financial consequences; they are eight times more likely to live in tidal floodplains than affluent households and 61% of low-income renters do not have home contents insurance, leaving them more susceptible to experiencing a financial shock''

https://eciu.net/analysis/briefings/climate-impacts/flood-risk-and-the-uk#:~:text=Flood%20damage%20currently%20costs%20the,occurring%20to%20the%20business%20sector.

Any low lying areas around Doncaster?

[ncRover]

Chicken feed compared to the consequences of not solving climate change, what will you tell your grandkids?

If it’s so important why don’t you kick off at the Australian government?

21% increase in carbon emissions since 1990 compared to the UK’s 48% decrease.

Or maybe you should move out of Sydney seeing as though it’s in the coast?

Anywhere in the world the coastline has changed as a result of a +1.5C change since 1850 (the end of the coldest climate period since the ice age ).

[SydneyRover]

Chicken feed compared to the consequences of not solving climate change, what will you tell your grandkids?

If it’s so important why don’t you kick off at the Australian government?

21% increase in carbon emissions since 1990 compared to the UK’s 48% decrease.

Or maybe you should move out of Sydney seeing as though it’s in the coast?

Anywhere in the world the coastline has changed as a result of a +1.5C change since 1850 (the end of the coldest climate period since the ice age ).

Late to the party as usual nc

[albie]

The UK has reduced its carbon emissions since 1990 more than Japan, Canada, USA, France and Germany.

If you’re right on everything there Albie then we will achieve Net Zero in a more organic fashion.

Pushing the new ICE car ban to 2035 is still in line with the EU, no?

NcRover,

Yes, pushing the ICE decision to 2035 is in line with the EU.
My point is that this date is completely irrelevant, because the pace of change in costs and take up will push new ICE sales off a cliff long before then.

That does not mean we will achieve Net Zero on schedule, because transport is only a proportion of the change required.
How we decarbonise agriculture, food industries, steel and cement remain to be seen.
https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FF6exMyHWUAAH3sw.jpg

Neither party has a credible plan, and neither understands the scale of the transformation needed.
Sunaks announcement has not even yet got parliamentary support, and will change at the next GE.

[danumdon]

Chicken feed compared to the consequences of not solving climate change, what will you tell your grandkids?

I'll get the grandkids to tell the Yanks, Chinese and Indians to run along, be good boys and stop creating jobs and opportunities for their people and developing their economies, don't they know all that industry creates climate change!.

[ncRover]

Chicken feed compared to the consequences of not solving climate change, what will you tell your grandkids?

If it’s so important why don’t you kick off at the Australian government?

21% increase in carbon emissions since 1990 compared to the UK’s 48% decrease.

Or maybe you should move out of Sydney seeing as though it’s in the coast?

Anywhere in the world the coastline has changed as a result of a +1.5C change since 1850 (the end of the coldest climate period since the ice age ).

Late to the party as usual nc

Poor debating as usual Sydney

By how much will this 5 year delay in net zero by the UK government raise the global temperature and precipitation rates?

[BillyStubbsTears]

If all this new information was known and viable why was the original route to net zero so different?

what has changed?

I'm not sure if they have internet on the moon but,

Cost of living crisis, war in Europe, inflation through the roof, mortgage rates quadrupled and a sense of misery and foreboding at what's to come next.

Some of us WERE warning back in 2010 of the consequences of electing a Government that was going to chuck standard economic theory out the window and CHOOSE to grind down wages for half a generation.  THAT is the reason for the air of despondency. Not that the problems we face today are insurmountable. They aren't, and they are no bigger than problems that every generation for the previous century has faced. The problem today is that we are facing these issues after a decade and a half of CHOOSING to impoverish ourselves, because too many people listened to a bunch of glib, entitled public schoolboys who neither knew, nor really cared how badly they were going to damage the country.

No hindsight in that. Anyone who knew their onions knew that was coming at the time.

[ncRover]

The UK has reduced its carbon emissions since 1990 more than Japan, Canada, USA, France and Germany.

If you’re right on everything there Albie then we will achieve Net Zero in a more organic fashion.

Pushing the new ICE car ban to 2035 is still in line with the EU, no?

NcRover,

Yes, pushing the ICE decision to 2035 is in line with the EU.
My point is that this date is completely irrelevant, because the pace of change in costs and take up will push new ICE sales off a cliff long before then.

That does not mean we will achieve Net Zero on schedule, because transport is only a proportion of the change required.
How we decarbonise agriculture, food industries, steel and cement remain to be seen.
https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FF6exMyHWUAAH3sw.jpg

Neither party has a credible plan, and neither understands the scale of the transformation needed.
Sunaks announcement has not even yet got parliamentary support, and will change at the next GE.

Thanks Albie. So you don’t think a new ICE car ban is needed because of the change in costs and take up?

You’re right there’s a lot more to it. Labour will probably get in v soon, so it will be interesting to see their 2030 plan and the feasibility of it. That and likely unintended consequences down the road.

[SydneyRover]

Chicken feed compared to the consequences of not solving climate change, what will you tell your grandkids?

If it’s so important why don’t you kick off at the Australian government?

21% increase in carbon emissions since 1990 compared to the UK’s 48% decrease.

Or maybe you should move out of Sydney seeing as though it’s in the coast?

Anywhere in the world the coastline has changed as a result of a +1.5C change since 1850 (the end of the coldest climate period since the ice age ).

Late to the party as usual nc

Poor debating as usual Sydney

By how much will this 5 year delay in net zero by the UK government raise the global temperature and precipitation rates?

The topic isn't about me nc, if you want to ask questions about Oz start a fresh topic, you could at least try and defend the government you are so defensive about.

[danumdon]

If all this new information was known and viable why was the original route to net zero so different?

what has changed?

I'm not sure if they have internet on the moon but,

Cost of living crisis, war in Europe, inflation through the roof, mortgage rates quadrupled and a sense of misery and foreboding at what's to come next.

Some of us WERE warning back in 2010 of the consequences of electing a Government that was going to chuck standard economic theory out the window and CHOOSE to grind down wages for half a generation.  THAT is the reason for the air of despondency. Not that the problems we face today are insurmountable. They aren't, and they are no bigger than problems that every generation for the previous century has faced. The problem today is that we are facing these issues after a decade and a half of CHOOSING to impoverish ourselves, because too many people listened to a bunch of glib, entitled public schoolboys who neither knew, nor really cared how badly they were going to damage the country.

No hindsight in that. Anyone who knew their onions knew that was coming at the time.

Have YOU been impoverished this last decade and a half, i know plenty who haven't.

[ncRover]

If all this new information was known and viable why was the original route to net zero so different?

what has changed?

I'm not sure if they have internet on the moon but,

Cost of living crisis, war in Europe, inflation through the roof, mortgage rates quadrupled and a sense of misery and foreboding at what's to come next.

Some of us WERE warning back in 2010 of the consequences of electing a Government that was going to chuck standard economic theory out the window and CHOOSE to grind down wages for half a generation.  THAT is the reason for the air of despondency. Not that the problems we face today are insurmountable. They aren't, and they are no bigger than problems that every generation for the previous century has faced. The problem today is that we are facing these issues after a decade and a half of CHOOSING to impoverish ourselves, because too many people listened to a bunch of glib, entitled public schoolboys who neither knew, nor really cared how badly they were going to damage the country.

No hindsight in that. Anyone who knew their onions knew that was coming at the time.

On the subject of that 2010 government.

Here is Nick Clegg in 2010 opposing nuclear power because it would only go live in 2022.

https://x.com/mlanetrain/status/1556381583585804291?s=46

[albie]

To be clear ncRover, I think it is better to have an early target to give direction to the industry, for the reasons that Ford and the SMMT set out.

Playing the long game, I don't think it will make much difference to the outcome in the car industry, because economics will be the main factor.

The nuclear issue is interesting, because of the long lead times for nuclear build and rising costs.
The question is which technologies offer better value for money, and early implementation.

Nuclear is a financial black hole, as Hinkley C is currently proving, behind schedule and way over budget.
You can do so much more at cost, by backing wind and solar from declining cost sectors, rather than long term commitment to rising cost industries like nuclear.

The energy economics are very clear.

[drfchound]

On the subject of political parts changing their mind on things, I read today about Labours plans to ditch their plans to raise sick pay and guarantee it to all. Last week Raynor received a standing ovation at Trade Union Congress after telling attendees that that the next Labour government will strengthen and increase statutory sick pay.
Days later Labour has U Turned on this pledge and weakened its policies to strengthen workers rights.
How come this hasn’t been mentioned on here?

[tyke1962]

On the subject of political parts changing their mind on things, I read today about Labours plans to ditch their plans to raise sick pay and guarantee it to all. Last week Raynor received a standing ovation at Trade Union Congress after telling attendees that that the next Labour government will strengthen and increase statutory sick pay.
Days later Labour has U Turned on this pledge and weakened its policies to strengthen workers rights.
How come this hasn’t been mentioned on here?

I personally didn't  believe a single word Rayner  said Hound but then again I'm not a tribal Labour voter and as a consequence have a bit of clarity

What's coming down the road is pretty easy to see without the blind red tribal glasses on .

Labour will fail miserably  if they form the next government  , the day they align this country back to any deal that involves the SM  is the day we get a government  more right wing than the current one in 6 years time

The right wing media plus Farage will kill  them as their lack of policy courage to make the difference comes back to bite .

The usual suspects on this board are practically electing them as we speak .

Although it will be your fault and mine of course if we don't vote Labour at any given time .

New Labour and Brexit  had at least 60% to do with it .

The usual suspects  on here either live in a different world or don't even reside in the UK at all .

If my prediction doesn't come off I'll eat my hat mate .

[Bristol Red Rover]

If all this new information was known and viable why was the original route to net zero so different?

what has changed?

I'm not sure if they have internet on the moon but,

Cost of living crisis, war in Europe, inflation through the roof, mortgage rates quadrupled and a sense of misery and foreboding at what's to come next.

Some of us WERE warning back in 2010 of the consequences of electing a Government that was going to chuck standard economic theory out the window and CHOOSE to grind down wages for half a generation.  THAT is the reason for the air of despondency. Not that the problems we face today are insurmountable. They aren't, and they are no bigger than problems that every generation for the previous century has faced. The problem today is that we are facing these issues after a decade and a half of CHOOSING to impoverish ourselves, because too many people listened to a bunch of glib, entitled public schoolboys who neither knew, nor really cared how badly they were going to damage the country.

No hindsight in that. Anyone who knew their onions knew that was coming at the time.

Have YOU been impoverished this last decade and a half, i know plenty who haven't.

I know plenty who have. I know people who have been pushed beyond the edge specifically by poverty, some who were working and some on benefits - in some cases benefits that they've had to dedicate all their energy to trying to get and been refused, unfairly so. And then I know plenty of "I'm alright Jack" types too.