Israel

[SydneyRover]

I guess that because they were not killed/murdered altogether it hasn't attracted so much interest sproty? These are just the kids.

''Between September 2000 and October 6, 2023, DCIP independently verified that Israeli forces and settlers killed 2,187 Palestinian children throughout the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip''

https://www.dci-palestine.org/4237_palestinian_children_killed_as_gaza_becomes_graveyard_for_children#:~:text=Between%20September%202000%20and%20October,Jerusalem%2C%20and%20the%20Gaza%20Strip.

[Ldr]

Whilst having every sympathy for innocent gazans I believe Israel should carry on until Hamas is wiped from the Earth.

2 things should be remembered.

1) the populace of Gaza voted for Hamas to take power (yes convoluted but have to own it nevertheless, similar to how remainers point the finger about brexit consequences)

2) October 7th, just what reaction did Hamas expect? Any logical thought will tell you this would happen and maybe that’s what they wanted, to mobilise the left wet lettuce brigade who see Palestine as their celebrity cause, given the state of the HoC last night with MPs saying they live in fear and Jewish members of society in fear and antisemitism incidents rising maybe a worldwide Islamic uprising was the aim?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

[Ldr]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

Feels maybe a bigger picture pushing at fault lines in society BYFP

[Sprotyrover]

I guess that because they were not killed/murdered altogether it hasn't attracted so much interest sproty? These are just the kids.

''Between September 2000 and October 6, 2023, DCIP independently verified that Israeli forces and settlers killed 2,187 Palestinian children throughout the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip''

https://www.dci-palestine.org/4237_palestinian_children_killed_as_gaza_becomes_graveyard_for_children#:~:text=Between%20September%202000%20and%20October,Jerusalem%2C%20and%20the%20Gaza%20Strip.

15/16 year old youths you mean! Still I have always condoned the IDF /Police solution to youths throwing stones or using sling shots. But no Israeli Service personnel have run into a Palestinian settlement and killed women and infant children or men/youths for that matter with wanton cruelty, nor have they gang raped to death Women and Girls. If you can’t see the difference you need to see a psychiatrist!

[Filo]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

[danumdon]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

Big difference being Prorogation is a convention that has been used on quite a few occasions, This issue was constitutionally wrong and against the advice of the clerk of the house, so in effect The speaker went against convention, Johnson just used a tactic that had been used often before by a sitting government.

[Filo]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

Big difference being Prorogation is a convention that has been used on quite a few occasions, This issue was constitutionally wrong and against the advice of the clerk of the house, so in effect The speaker went against convention, Johnson just used a tactic that had been used often before by a sitting government.

prorogation was deemed to be unlawful

[Filo]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

Big difference being Prorogation is a convention that has been used on quite a few occasions, This issue was constitutionally wrong and against the advice of the clerk of the house, so in effect The speaker went against convention, Johnson just used a tactic that had been used often before by a sitting government.

5 hours they debated, before the Govt pulled their amendment, why do you think that was?

To stave off a 150+ rebellion? A rebellion of that size would bring the Govt down and they didn’t want that did they, instead they try to frame the opposition, nothing said about the Tory whip threatening the Speaker telling him he would unleash hell if he allowed Labours amendment.

The top and bottom line here is the Govt and SNP were outmanouvered , all the Govt had to do was use their majority to get their amendment passed, they didn’t because they knew many f their MP’s were going to vote for the Labour amendment

[danumdon]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

Big difference being Prorogation is a convention that has been used on quite a few occasions, This issue was constitutionally wrong and against the advice of the clerk of the house, so in effect The speaker went against convention, Johnson just used a tactic that had been used often before by a sitting government.

prorogation was deemed to be unlawful

Did i say it wasn't

[DRFC_AjA]

The speaker himself has said he did it for the safety of MPs. So there you go, moral of the story going forward is if you don't like something that MPs are voting on then threaten your MPs with violence and the rules will get bent in parliament. EDL? Go have a riot to get your own way etc

A Jewish s*x gang? Go mob your MPs.
A Christian suicide bomber? Go mob your MPs

I jest of course about those last 2  there's only 1 "peaceful" religion that does those

[danumdon]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

Big difference being Prorogation is a convention that has been used on quite a few occasions, This issue was constitutionally wrong and against the advice of the clerk of the house, so in effect The speaker went against convention, Johnson just used a tactic that had been used often before by a sitting government.

5 hours they debated, before the Govt pulled their amendment, why do you think that was?

To stave off a 150+ rebellion? A rebellion of that size would bring the Govt down and they didn’t want that did they, instead they try to frame the opposition, nothing said about the Tory whip threatening the Speaker telling him he would unleash hell if he allowed Labours amendment.

The top and bottom line here is the Govt and SNP were outmanouvered , all the Govt had to do was use their majority to get their amendment passed, they didn’t because they knew many f their MP’s were going to vote for the Labour amendment

What this got to do with the price of fish?

The issue here is the Speaker deciding to give the SNP's opposition day motion to Labour in a totally unconstitutional manner, thus saving face for Starmer who was in more trouble then they will now let on. Whoever from Labour that "lent" on the speaker ensured Starmer's bacon was saved for another day.

Speaker now in deep shit unless Sunak decides to save him from the vote of no confidence.

[drfchound]

That second point springs to my mind also. I see them saying they allowed a change in parliament due to concerns of MPs safety. That lets those threatening win.  MPs should be allowed to freely state their views.

They had the chance, but the Govt pulled their amendment because they feared they didn’t have the numbers. The SNP saw a chance to split the Labour party, because they know they are in trouble in Scotland, the Govt then bleat about going against conventions, thats a bit rich coming from them, conventions weren’t an issue when proroguing Parliament was it?

Big difference being Prorogation is a convention that has been used on quite a few occasions, This issue was constitutionally wrong and against the advice of the clerk of the house, so in effect The speaker went against convention, Johnson just used a tactic that had been used often before by a sitting government.

5 hours they debated, before the Govt pulled their amendment, why do you think that was?

To stave off a 150+ rebellion? A rebellion of that size would bring the Govt down and they didn’t want that did they, instead they try to frame the opposition, nothing said about the Tory whip threatening the Speaker telling him he would unleash hell if he allowed Labours amendment.

The top and bottom line here is the Govt and SNP were outmanouvered , all the Govt had to do was use their majority to get their amendment passed, they didn’t because they knew many f their MP’s were going to vote for the Labour amendment

There was also talk of Labour MPs rebelling too, which is why the LP whips put the pressure on The Speaker.
All in all, a monumental balls up.

[ncRover]

Pretty embarrassing for British politics as a whole that it has come to this. And on such a serious issue. Our political class really are a bunch of absolute wasters. Obvious partisanship from the speaker is the cherry on top.

Hoyle said he had “serious meeting with the police”

“I never ever want to pick up the phone to find out that a friend (from either side) has been murdered by terrorists”.

Jo Cox and David Amass happened and particularly Labour MPs are getting threats. Calling them all “wasters” doesn’t sit right.

[SydneyRover]

I guess that because they were not killed/murdered altogether it hasn't attracted so much interest sproty? These are just the kids.

''Between September 2000 and October 6, 2023, DCIP independently verified that Israeli forces and settlers killed 2,187 Palestinian children throughout the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip''

https://www.dci-palestine.org/4237_palestinian_children_killed_as_gaza_becomes_graveyard_for_children#:~:text=Between%20September%202000%20and%20October,Jerusalem%2C%20and%20the%20Gaza%20Strip.

15/16 year old youths you mean! Still I have always condoned the IDF /Police solution to youths throwing stones or using sling shots. But no Israeli Service personnel have run into a Palestinian settlement and killed women and infant children or men/youths for that matter with wanton cruelty, nor have they gang raped to death Women and Girls. If you can’t see the difference you need to see a psychiatrist!

This has been going on since 1948 sproty with the backing of the western world, in their own land. I know of someone happy to break the law just because some wants to get their leg over in their own car.

So we have people in their own land being murdered and their properties demolished, settlers moving in against international law, then IDF protecting the settlers by shooting any that protest. Kill them they threw stones doesn't sound equal. Kids don't get to vote either.

[MachoMadness]

Pretty embarrassing for British politics as a whole that it has come to this. And on such a serious issue. Our political class really are a bunch of absolute wasters. Obvious partisanship from the speaker is the cherry on top.

Hoyle said he had “serious meeting with the police”

“I never ever want to pick up the phone to find out that a friend (from either side) has been murdered by terrorists”.

Jo Cox and David Amass happened and particularly Labour MPs are getting threats. Calling them all “wasters” doesn’t sit right.

Jo Cox was vocally pro-Palestinian, and was murdered by a far right terrorist who's rhetoric has subsequently been adopted by the conservative party and much of the British media. Were she still alive, she'd no doubt be getting called a whining leftie who didn't understand grown up politics. Invoking her memory in this way is cheap, and Coyle raising that spectre to cover his own arse is ghoulish. Hoyle did a favour for his old mates in the Labour Party - that's all there is to it.

There's no evidence of actual serious threats being dished out. I'm sure there's the odd head case making threats but you're always going to get that in a movement of so many people. In fact, the only actually violent protest this whole time was when Braverman whipped up a gang of far right thugs to have a scrap with police at the Cenotaph.

People are protesting - peacefully - outside their constituency offices. In some cases they're confronting MPs directly. In some cases even angrily. That's fine. In many cases, that anger comes from people who are seeing their friends and family wiped out.

As far as I'm concerned the majority of these MPs should never be allowed to speak in front of a quiet audience ever again. This should follow them for the rest of their lives, and even if it does, they won't feel a fraction of a percent of the suffering that they've supported in Gaza.

If the consequences of their politics makes them so uncomfortable, that's a good reason for them to reevaluate their politics, I'd argue.

[ncRover]

Pretty embarrassing for British politics as a whole that it has come to this. And on such a serious issue. Our political class really are a bunch of absolute wasters. Obvious partisanship from the speaker is the cherry on top.

Hoyle said he had “serious meeting with the police”

“I never ever want to pick up the phone to find out that a friend (from either side) has been murdered by terrorists”.

Jo Cox and David Amass happened and particularly Labour MPs are getting threats. Calling them all “wasters” doesn’t sit right.

Jo Cox was vocally pro-Palestinian, and was murdered by a far right terrorist who's rhetoric has subsequently been adopted by the conservative party and much of the British media. Were she still alive, she'd no doubt be getting called a whining leftie who didn't understand grown up politics. Invoking her memory in this way is cheap, and Coyle raising that spectre to cover his own arse is ghoulish. Hoyle did a favour for his old mates in the Labour Party - that's all there is to it.

There's no evidence of actual serious threats being dished out. I'm sure there's the odd head case making threats but you're always going to get that in a movement of so many people. In fact, the only actually violent protest this whole time was when Braverman whipped up a gang of far right thugs to have a scrap with police at the Cenotaph.

People are protesting - peacefully - outside their constituency offices. In some cases they're confronting MPs directly. In some cases even angrily. That's fine. In many cases, that anger comes from people who are seeing their friends and family wiped out.

As far as I'm concerned the majority of these MPs should never be allowed to speak in front of a quiet audience ever again. This should follow them for the rest of their lives, and even if it does, they won't feel a fraction of a percent of the suffering that they've supported in Gaza.

If the consequences of their politics makes them so uncomfortable, that's a good reason for them to reevaluate their politics, I'd argue.

I’m aware of the nature of Jo Cox’s death thanks. I’m talking about threats and violence against MPs, so it is relevant actually.

Would that last paragraph you wrote have applied to her? Can you not see your hypocrisy?

[MachoMadness]

No, because it's obvious that "making someone uncomfortable by confronting them with the reality of their politics" and "murder" aren't the same thing.

[ncRover]

No, because it's obvious that "making someone uncomfortable by confronting them with the reality of their politics" and "murder" aren't the same thing.

Jo Cox’s politics made a far-right nutcases uncomfortable, she received lots of threats and then one killed her.

Current MP’s views are making certain people uncomfortable, and threats were being made against them while a genocidal slogan was literally projected on to Big Ben as a crowd gathered outside.

I’m not comparing the potential motives by the way.

I’ve spelled it out clear for you there.

I listened to Hoyle’s speech today and that is a man being 100% genuine.

[MachoMadness]

Think I see the problem here. "From the river to the sea" isn't a call for genocide. Interesting that you take issue with that phrase, and not the actual genocide that Israel is actually being investigated for.

You're trying to compare people being angry that thousands of people, mainly kids, are being butchered, with the actions of a mentally ill Nazi. It's just not remotely credible.

This isn't a thought experiment for a lot of these protestors. It's not something they just fancy debating on a fourth tier football forum in their spare time. It's their friends and family who are being wiped out. My sympathy and understanding is with them, not with the MPs who condone or support it.

[selby]

  Meanwhile over in Gaza all the grandstanding is making no difference whatsoever.

[SydneyRover]

the validity of claims against UNWRA are unravelling further, hope nobody jumped in on the word of Israel on this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas

[ravenrover]

All summed up nicely by HIGNFY

To re-cap last night; The SNP ambushed Labour, who blackmailed the speaker, who broke the rules, which saved Keir’s blushes, which gave the Tories the excuse to pretend to be angry so they could withdraw and not lose the vote, and the SNP were angry their plot failed, so neither put party politics aside to vote for a ceasefire they claim to want, meaning parliament’s a mess but not as much of a mess as Gaza, which last night’s events did nothing to help

[Filo]

All summed up nicely by HIGNFY

To re-cap last night; The SNP ambushed Labour, who blackmailed the speaker, who broke the rules, which saved Keir’s blushes, which gave the Tories the excuse to pretend to be angry so they could withdraw and not lose the vote, and the SNP were angry their plot failed, so neither put party politics aside to vote for a ceasefire they claim to want, meaning parliament’s a mess but not as much of a mess as Gaza, which last night’s events did nothing to help

Only there are no written rules

[selby]

  Walsall council had to abandon a council meeting due to a support Palestine demonstration in the council chamber. 
  Meanwhile Israel have shown Reuters plans for full security powers of the West bank and Gaza after hostilities have ended, and no likely hood of an independent Palestinian state being declared and announced the deaths of two high ranking terrorists in a raid in Raffa.
  There was no recognition if they even knew about the Labour motion in the Houses of Parliament, Ah well hot air again causing more problems for us than Israel.

 

[DRFC_AjA]

"The mob" now attacking takeaways for not boycotting coca cola. I seem to remember Leeds fans doing similar to anyone what looked like a Turkish. I guess it's morally acceptable this time if you've got a degree or you can't be described as a "nazi", "supremacist", "racist"

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/shocking-footage-shows-pro-palestine-protestors-taking-on-bradford-kebab-shop-af/

[SydneyRover]

4 men have been arrested, hopefully they'll be charged. I will not knowingly buy anything produced in illegal settlement areas.\ or from companies that trade there.

''Since the start of 2023, at least 483 Palestinians have been killed and more than 12,769 injured by Israeli forces and settlers in the occupied West Bank''

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/12/12/know-their-names-palestinians-killed-by-israel-in-the-occupied-west-bank-2

[Sprotyrover]

UN: 'Convincing information' sexual violence committed against hostages in Gaza https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899

[Ldr]

I can’t believe people Syd supports and allies with would do that Sprot

[Bristol Red Rover]

UN: 'Convincing information' sexual violence committed against hostages in Gaza https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899

I hear there's convincing information of tens of thousands of civilians including many many babies being murdered in Gaza by Israeli military. That's not to say other things that have happened aren't appalling, but lets look at proportions in both abuse and numbers.