Desire and heart

[pib]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

[drfchound]

There is no doubting that JR got some things wrong, particularly at the end of his time on the Board.
But by god, he got so much right too.
He saved the club and firmly put us back on the map.
People criticise younger fans who are having a pop at the current owners etc and saying they have only known the good times and haven’t suffered the leaner times like us older fans.
That though makes me wonder why a few older fans don’t t appreciate more of the good stuff that JR did rather than seek out reasons to have yet another pop at him.

[Bentley Bullet]

We're a unique bunch at Donny. I wonder if any Forest fans only judge Brian Clough's legacy on his disastrous final season as Forest manager!

[BillyStubbsTears]

We're a unique bunch at Donny. I wonder if any Forest fans only judge Brian Clough's legacy on his disastrous final season as Forest manager!

It's perfectly possible for a grown up to be deeply grateful to Ryan for saving the club and bringing in people with the money to give us our finest period in 50 years...while simultaneously thinking The Experiment was an unmitigated disaster, the Sequentia Capital plan unhinged and the Louis Tomlinson crowdfunder embarrassingly sad.

Some of us got over the Catholic education that brainwashed us into thinking there were only Angels and Sinners.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's also perfectly possible for a grown-up to accept that John Ryan wasn't solely responsible for the failed experiment.

It's also perfectly possible for a grown-up to accept that if The Experiment had been successful, all of the board would have been given credit for it, and not just John Ryan.

It's also perfectly possible for a grown-up to accept that had it been successful, the board would have benefitted financially in the long run.

It's not entirely a case of John Ryan being a sinner and the rest of the board being angels regarding The Experiment, irrespective of whether you were brought up Catholic or not.

[ravenrover]

As it is still recent
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67770971?xtor=AL-73-%5Bpartner%5D-%5BBBC+England%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=bbcemt&at_medium=social&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=0160038C-A579-11EE-80F4-3747D0B4AF07

[silent majority]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

[pib]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

Alright, fair enough. My memory obviously is letting me down then.

[drfchound]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

Surely Terry and Dick were in agreement though that it should go ahead.

[Chris Black come back]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

This is a new revelation that Micky Walker was at the heart of this. Extraordinary.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

The resignation of four Board members four months later adds a interesting twist to the story.

[Bentley Bullet]

Would they have resigned if the experiment was working?

[silent majority]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

Surely Terry and Dick were in agreement though that it should go ahead.

No, not as easy as that. TB wasn't in the country at the time, and he wasn't consulted either was my understanding.

For the sacking of SO'D and the installing of Saunders it just needed 2 of the 3 to agree. I won't go into detail but we all knew Dick wasn't in the best of health so pressure of that type was unkind.

The transfer of players was then passed on to Mr McKay, and we all knew how that fared.

The promise of star players on nominal wages didn't bear fruit either, consequently we had the biggest wage spend this club had ever had and we were still relegated.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Would they have resigned if the experiment was working?

You mean if the Experiment had not led to us bringing in a pile of mostly unmotivated cack, whilst increasing the wage bill by £2m? Who knows? That's a different universe and I don't see the sense in discussing hypotheticals that are so far divorced from reality.

[Bentley Bullet]

Would they have resigned if the experiment was working?

You mean if the Experiment had not led to us bringing in a pile of mostly unmotivated cack, whilst increasing the wage bill by £2m? Who knows? That's a different universe and I don't see the sense in discussing hypotheticals that are so far divorced from reality.

I mean exactly what I said.

If the experiment had been successful, would all of the board have been given credit for it, and not just John Ryan?

Also, had it been successful, would the board have benefitted financially in the long run?

[Donny Exile in York]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

Who was the driver for the shambolic transfer window in Summer 2021 when we held out til the last minute without a striker other than loanee Cukur fit, and planned for Will Grigg or Aiden O'Brien and went to 11pm and landed no one? Oh sorry we scraped the non contract market and landed DoDoo! Was that JR's fault as well?!? I remember it well, and those that heralded our plans would all work out.

Following the 'experiment' under JR's tenure we went on to achieve what for me was our greatest ever season in living memory, winning league one culminating in the success on that unforgettable day at Brentford. So memories trip off the tongue during his Chairmanship, Brentford away, Leeds at Wembley, JPT final., winning at Elland Road, the championship years under SoD, winning away at Forest, Sheff United, Sheff Wed, Thrashing Barnsley regularly, the final at Stoke, Aston Villa in the Carling Cup, taking Arsenal to Extra Time... what such grandeur and memories have we under the 'regime' since JR left, two good seasons being 2016-17 and 2018-19 but no where near the same success or memories. My memories over the past 3 seasons unfortunately include my worst ever day in football, a five Nil mauling at home to Rotherham, c. 80 league defeats later and down in a potential relegation fight out the league. Give me JR's tenure anyday, and i for one don't object to the 'experiment' either, seeing El Hadj Djouf partner Billy Sharp, particularly as we bounced back spectacularly with a defence we are crying out for now during the 2012-13 season.

I seem to recall when JR resigned it was because the other board members didn't like him spending their money, which is fair enough, but he had put the vast majority of his wealth into the club's rise from conference to Championship, overseen 3 promotions, a much maligned negotiation with the Council to successfully get a new stadium the club badly needed, a JPT trophy win, a Quarter final in the Carling Cup, and fundamentally our long lost pride back. Remind me how how our Board have done over the last decade without JR, and how well they have done without the only other Rovers fan on the Board, Dick Watson since his sad passing? The last four seasons to date have been as bad as any sequence of results and performances as i recall over 40 years, yet still people focus on the 'experiment', has the period of self inflicted austerity under the guise of 'sustainability' not been a terrible longstanding 'experiment' in its own right given the wealth on the Board and the preceding success of the previous 20+ years in comparison. 

[silent majority]

The last time I felt real passion in the club was when john John Ryan was chairman. He led from the front and inspired the fans.

Then the businessmen took over and the club became about the academy, Club Doncaster, charity and community work and the likes of Silent Majority said we were doing well financially (even without JR and Dick Watson). And look at where we are now. Barely a league two side. Who is inspiring the club, players or fans any more? Where is the excitement any more?

He also took us into The Experiment which left "the businessmen" as you call them picking up a massive bill.

Your desire seems to be for "the businessmen" to subsidise your hobby up to a level that you personally are satisfied by.

Do you get it that "the businessmen" might have an issue with that?

Was JR even the architect of the "Experiment"?

My memory might be letting me down, but I thought JR had come out and publicly backed SOD just a few days before he got sacked, and if I remember correctly it came out a bit later that Watson was the one who drove the change, as he went on record as saying he was fed up with getting beat every week. I'm sure JR towed the party line at the time and publicly backed it once the decision had been made, but I seem to remember him being the one in favour of giving SOD more time.

Either way, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened if it was JR and JR only who had wanted it. The other two had equal shareholding and the power to overrule him.

He might not have been the architect but he was the driver.

I was called into a meeting the day SO’D was dismissed and given the whole story and it was obvious that he was the key decision maker. To suggest that it was someone else, i.e. Dick Watson, is completely wrong.

The idea came about through Willy McKay and Micky Walker which was then sold to JR.

Who was the driver for the shambolic transfer window in Summer 2021 when we held out til the last minute without a striker other than loanee Cukur fit, and planned for Will Grigg or Aiden O'Brien and went to 11pm and landed no one? Oh sorry we scraped the non contract market and landed DoDoo! Was that JR's fault as well?!? I remember it well, and those that heralded our plans would all work out.

I seem to recall when JR resigned it was because the other board members didn't like him spending their money, which is fair enough, but he had put the vast majority of his wealth into the club's rise from conference to Championship, overseen 3 promotions, a much maligned negotiation with the Council to successfully get a new stadium the club badly needed, a JPT trophy win, a Quarter final in the Carling Cup, and fundamentally our long lost pride back. Remind me how how our Board have done over the last decade without JR, and how well they have done without the only other Rovers fan on the Board, Dick Watson since his sad passing? The last four seasons to date have been as bad as any sequence of results and performances as i recall over 40 years, yet still people focus on the 'experiment', has the period of self inflicted austerity under the guise of 'sustainability' not been a terrible longstanding 'experiment' in its own right given the wealth on the Board and the preceding success of the previous 20+ years in comparison. 

Not interested.

You want a love in with John Ryan be my guest.

[Bentley Bullet]

Who's to say those who worshipped JR when he was our sugar daddy only to single out his failings when he left won't do the same to Terry Bramall when he surrenders his sugar daddyship?

[Chris Black come back]

We can all agree that the summer 2021 window was the worst in the history of the club. What a huge disaster from start (his first signing was Ro-Shaun Williams) to the end (Joe Dodoo) and everything in between.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Who's to say those who worshipped JR when he was our sugar daddy only to single out his failings when he left won't do the same to Terry Bramall when he surrenders his sugar daddyship?

I would entirely expect them to. If Bramall runs an Experiment II, gets into bed with an investment company of dubious nature then tries to get pre-pubesecent girls to fund the club.

What do you think?

[Bentley Bullet]

But only if, in hindsight, they fail, eh! Then we can forget all the good that the once-loved sugar daddy did and just talk about his failures, can't we? After all, what use is a sugar daddy who no longer forks out his cash, or runs out of it for that matter?

Now, let's try again....

If the experiment had been successful, would all of the board have been given credit for it, and not just John Ryan?

Also, had it been successful, would the board have benefitted financially in the long run?

In your own time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

You can ask hypothetical questions all night if you want. Fill your boots. There is literally no point in engaging with them though.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Jesus f*cking christ. As soon as things get tough, we're back to JR v TB.

Give it a rest. It's gone, it's irrelevant to what's happening now. JR isn't coming back.

It's pathetic. It's like kids on a playground. My sugar daddy's bigger than yours!

None of this is helping anything.

[Bentley Bullet]

If people stopped attacking JR there would be no need to defend him.

I will defend TB equally if necessary.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But you're not defending him BB. You're asking stupid questions about predicting the thoughts of people I don't know in scenarios that were never remotely likely to exist.

[Chris Black come back]

Would they have resigned if the experiment was working?

You mean if the Experiment had not led to us bringing in a pile of mostly unmotivated cack, whilst increasing the wage bill by £2m? Who knows? That's a different universe and I don't see the sense in discussing hypotheticals that are so far divorced from reality.

That was such a crazy season. There were a few we actually signed but never actually played for us, Damian Plessis was one. Then there was Frédéric Piquionne who looked very good for us, so good in fact he got a better deal elsewhere and left after a half dozen or so games. That lad who spat at a Leeds or Hull player as well. Beye flying in for training each week, flying back after each game. You do wonder what the established lads thought was going on there. Then Saunders brought a horse into training one day and gave it away to the best trainer that morning.

[Bentley Bullet]

But you're not defending him BB. You're asking stupid questions about predicting the thoughts of people I don't know in scenarios that were never remotely likely to exist.

You refuse to respond to the questions because you know the answers are obvious, and they blow the argument out of the water.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Shut the thread down. It's worse than some of the recent performances. Everyone for themselves, no teamwork, no togetherness!

Move on you old farts!

[Bentley Bullet]

I've not suggested that JR was innocent of certain events before his leaving, but I get sick of reading the same old stories by the same old people who seem intent on attacking him at every opportunity.

At the end of the day, JR was dedicated and driven by ambition for Rovers, and if he was rich enough he would quite possibly have achieved his ambition without the need to seek other unorthodox channels.

[Michael Shaw]

I keep on saying it on this site, I don't care about the Richardson days, The Experiment or anything else that is history. It is just constant "smoke and mirrors" by the same people over and over again to distract us from the current state we are in.

Nothing about the club is inspiring and makes me want to go to a match when all I expect is another loss, and that is echoed by the PvO thread where the majority are "lose". We need to bring some passion and soul back into the club somehow. And all I have said was that John Ryan was the last member of the board or director to have the passion I used to enjoy. I don't see it in anyone now anywhere in the club, and no, I don't want want a love in with John Ryan (what a childish comment from SM!), I just respect the passion he has shown, even this year.