EFL statement - Transfer fee restriction

[Rovers91]

Club is on its f**king arse, 10 years ago we were playing championship football and now we are fighting to stay in the football league. This just sums the club up its embarrassing publicity.

[Surrey Rover]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

[dickos1]

If this is the result of a top 6 budget you have to question where for? Conference North? It certainly has not produced the goods yet. Fingers crossed for Saturday that we are not looking down the barrel of a relegation gun.

He’s not spending the money is he

[TonySoprano]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I rarely post on here but if the club knew about this then why was it promised that significant funds would be made available in January Silent Majority?

To those who have an axe to grind with the ownership about a perceived lack of funding surely this won’t help the situation and will look like the fans have been given information when it couldn’t possibly be true.

I don't get your point, where did the club say that significant funds were being made available in January?

It was actually said in the summer, and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it said at MTO it was a mid table budget?

Yes in the summer, not January.

And TB actually said top half budget not mid-table. There's a significant difference between the two.

Eh ?! A top half budged could also be a mid table budget !

[Pside]

Your job is a thankless task SM I think we all agree that but surely now you must be sick of what you’re getting told. You can understand why many of us no longer believe what is coming from those at the top via you 

[TonySoprano]

If this mistake has hindered our recruitment this month, in trying to stay in the football league….why shouldn’t it be questioned?

It hasn't though has it.

Maybe you should read the rule book first.

It has though hasn't it ! If we weren't allowed to pay a fee (even a loan fee) this January!!!

[mushRTID]

If this mistake has hindered our recruitment this month, in trying to stay in the football league….why shouldn’t it be questioned?

It hasn't though has it.

Maybe you should read the rule book first.

It has though hasn't it ! If we weren't allowed to pay a fee (even a loan fee) this January!!!

Exactly.
Imagine if Grant had saved some money back for January by the way.
Or Terry is shitting himself at the league table and was willing to spend a bit of money on some quality.
But those scenarios aren’t possible if we are not allowed to. It’s not even an option due to a f**k up.

[TonySoprano]

If this mistake has hindered our recruitment this month, in trying to stay in the football league….why shouldn’t it be questioned?

It hasn't though has it.

Maybe you should read the rule book first.

It has though hasn't it ! If we weren't allowed to pay a fee (even a loan fee) this January!!!

Exactly.
Imagine if Grant had saved some money back for January by the way.
Or Terry is shitting himself at the league table and was willing to spend a bit of money on some quality.
But those scenarios aren’t possible if we are not allowed to. It’s not even an option due to a f**k up.

No biggy though 

[drfc1951]

At least the efl didnt consider it serious enough to impose a points deduction.

[silent majority]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

[wilts rover]

People moaning we shouldn't have loan players now moaning we should have more expensive loan players.

[Spilsby Red]

I am afraid that this just adds wood to the fire for the Netto group and other concerned fans, which is understandable

[Nudga]

People moaning we shouldn't have loan players now moaning we should have more expensive loan players.

Replace expensive with experienced.
Do you not understand that this club is in the shit?

[i_ateallthepies]

But serious enough to impose a sanction, initially a severe sanction.

[GazLaz]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

In a theoretical sense at least, has it not restricted the business we can do this window? A crucial window when we are in a relegation battle to stay in the EFL??

[ChrisBx]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

Have other clubs fallen foul of this change in the rules?

[Canadian Rover]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

In a theoretical sense at least, has it not restricted the business we can do this window? A crucial window when we are in a relegation battle to stay in the EFL??

Reading (quickly through it) I don't think it has Gaz, it doesn't make good reading though (certainly about not paying other clubs on time) and really pissing of a club like Brighton with their impressive development squad and we'll run club overall doesn't bode well for any future relationship I would assume.

[TonySoprano]

How can it be a mistake when the club was reminded on several occasions?

This could potentially cost us our league status, due to not being able to sign anyone decent this January.

[TonySoprano]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

In a theoretical sense at least, has it not restricted the business we can do this window? A crucial window when we are in a relegation battle to stay in the EFL??

Reading (quickly through it) I don't think it has Gaz, it doesn't make good reading though (certainly about not paying other clubs on time) and really pissing of a club like Brighton with their impressive development squad and we'll run club overall doesn't bode well for any future relationship I would assume.

The club was prevented in paying any fees for players this January.

It's had massive implications.

[Spilsby Red]

Things are not looking good. This issue, issue with HMRC, budget talk.
Let’s hope no one tries to light a fire at the ground.
I have been a stalwart in backing the club and owner, but, I am very concerned. If we do get relegated I will continue to support the club as I did before when we went into non league.

[Pliskin]

The Free Press says that in late 2023 the club were fined and restricted from paying transfer fees for 3 transfer windows - the restrictions have since been suspended for the 2nd and 3rd transfer windows on appeal.

I'm sorry, but to me that seems like a pretty significant punishment for a professional football club to receive - not something that's handed out for a minor admin hiccup.

[TonySoprano]

The Free Press says that in late 2023 the club were fined and restricted from paying transfer fees for 3 transfer windows - the restrictions have since been suspended for the 2nd and 3rd transfer windows on appeal.

I'm sorry, but to me that seems like a pretty significant punishment for a professional football club to receive - not something that's handed out for a minor admin hiccup.

No biggy though 

[Canadian Rover]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

In a theoretical sense at least, has it not restricted the business we can do this window? A crucial window when we are in a relegation battle to stay in the EFL??

Reading (quickly through it) I don't think it has Gaz, it doesn't make good reading though (certainly about not paying other clubs on time) and really pissing of a club like Brighton with their impressive development squad and we'll run club overall doesn't bode well for any future relationship I would assume.

The club was prevented in paying any fees for players this January.

It's had massive implications.

Having taken a little bit more time, you are right. Which likely explains our January transfer business. Not that I am holding that against the lads who have signed in January they have my full support.

But it looks like we have been a mess admin/accounting/paying wise - I wonder if this had any effect on a change of chairman in recent weeks?

[Pside]

Circus on the pitch circus off it. Enough is enough

[Spilsby Red]

Baffling that this has happened. I am gobsmacked. And it is a serious issue.
We must be the laughing stock of the EFL.
We see issues at other clubs, always thinking we are ok as we are well run, we win awards.
They mean nothing.
We can always throw tennis balls on the pitch like Reading fans did, due to their club not being run well.
What’s next, something else will occur then it will be points deduction.
As I said before, I was a stalwart about the owners but I am gobsmacked this has been allowed to happen

[sedwardsdrfc]

Working in the corporate world you learn that everything which is essentially bad performance is spun to sound like it was the plan all along.

At my place we lost a load of money last year and you’d think it was what we set out to do the way the exec talk. And don’t worry when we get past these legacy issues the future is bright… that is until a few more legacy issues present themselves!!

Club has had a few too many of these “one offs” over the last few years. Just adds to the obviousness that we need to get a grip off the pitch before anything good will happen on it.

[Dagenham Rover]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

In a theoretical sense at least, has it not restricted the business we can do this window? A crucial window when we are in a relegation battle to stay in the EFL??

Reading (quickly through it) I don't think it has Gaz, it doesn't make good reading though (certainly about not paying other clubs on time) and really pissing of a club like Brighton with their impressive development squad and we'll run club overall doesn't bode well for any future relationship I would assume.

The club was prevented in paying any fees for players this January.

It's had massive implications.

Having taken a little bit more time, you are right. Which likely explains our January transfer business. Not that I am holding that against the lads who have signed in January they have my full support.

But it looks like we have been a mess admin/accounting/paying wise - I wonder if this had any effect on a change of chairman in recent weeks?

My immediate thought as well

[NickDRFC]

Well I've seen some tripe written on this message board before but I can't believe what I'm seeing right now. It seems like any excuse to stick the boot in will suffice.

We were well aware that this was in the offing and the circumstances that led to it. It was a simple mistake, brought about by a change in the EFL ruling in the summer, compounded by a FD who was having a difficult patch.

It's no biggy, the CEO and TB were unaware that this was happening and the EFL, because it was more of a technical issue than anything else, were as lenient as they could be given the way the ruling was written.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing on this forum, mountains and molehills spring to mind!!

I’m sorry Martin but that is a quite ridiculous reaction to what has unfolded in these last few hours. It’s very well you stating you knew all about it and what it entails but I like the majority on here had not the slightest inclination of this EFL sanction. Maybe if the VSC has given us a heads up rather than we find out via a EFL press release the reaction might not have been so vociferous. Fans are genuinely concerned, just look at the league table, our league status is under serious threat.

The EFL initially said they wouldn't be making any statement, they didn't consider it a serious enough matter. So I'm not sure why the VSC would do so either.

You should all read the ruling, it was quite obvious it was a technical offence brought about by a misreading of the regulation, as soon as the club had it brought to their attention they steeled. It had no detrimental effect on anything.

I don't doubt our situation is serious, we've made our points to the club on numerous occasions, but this is a completely OTT reaction.

Martin, I’ll make the point again. You knew all about it we didn’t. All too often you react to comments on here without taking into consideration that you are privy to far more in depth knowledge of scenarios than most fans are. You might like to consider perception from this side of the fence a little more, all too often we don’t have the insight your position affords you.

OK, apologies from me then. The club had kept me informed as they always do on matters such as this, we discussed it at length some days ago and felt that it wasn't serious enough to bring it to everybody's attention.. The EFL also didn't consider it serious either, and the reading of the actual report makes that clear.

In a theoretical sense at least, has it not restricted the business we can do this window? A crucial window when we are in a relegation battle to stay in the EFL??

Reading (quickly through it) I don't think it has Gaz, it doesn't make good reading though (certainly about not paying other clubs on time) and really pissing of a club like Brighton with their impressive development squad and we'll run club overall doesn't bode well for any future relationship I would assume.

The club was prevented in paying any fees for players this January.

It's had massive implications.

Having taken a little bit more time, you are right. Which likely explains our January transfer business. Not that I am holding that against the lads who have signed in January they have my full support.

But it looks like we have been a mess admin/accounting/paying wise - I wonder if this had any effect on a change of chairman in recent weeks?

My immediate thought as well

Operations and accounting would surely fall under the CEO’s remit, the Chairman is in charge of the football side of things as opposed to the business.

[Spilsby Red]

People will now question everything the club say.
The club need to come out and say if we are in the s**t and stop sugar coating it.
Us fans support this club, spend hard earned money on the club. Travel thousands miles.
So please have the balls to be honest with what is really happening.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I just do not agree this is a simple type of error and one person is to blame.  My feelings are thus.

1. Poor controls in place on the business side if one person can be responsible.

2. Why are senior management not reviewing/discussing payments adequately?

3. How can they use an excuse that they didn't know it was the rule? That itself is poor, but it shouldn't matter. If you agree 14 day payment terms, pay in 14 days. Why didn't that happen?

4. This is one issue, but the core problem is it's a catalogue of them.  Will Grigg, HMRC and now this one are basics. Add Goodman to it and it's pretty worrying (even Football manager players like me know that rule).  That's without mentioning a number of basic issues I've had with them as a simple fan.

5. Add this to on pitch performance it's continual failure. It just shows to me that the standards are not where they should be, it's not acceptable.

It's overall hard to find any positivity in the football club at all. We've had years of it and as fans there's no way anyone can say that it's wrong to be sick of it.  There's only so many times it can be excused, we've gone backwards in nearly every area and it's just not good enough.

What's the alternative? I have little confidence they can turn it around and I just do struggle to see this regime making things worse.

Being clear I've no agenda, I just want a decent side out on a Saturday and the club to be in a good place and get back to our club shoving it up the others, not being the worst club in the country by some margin.