Matthew Craig

[BillyStubbsTears]

In terms of how they played in their loan spell, I think even with big names that have played for us on loan then signed permanently the best loan player I’ve ever seen is Herbie Kane by a mile. Before his injury I was convinced he would play in the premier league, he’s still a good player now I just think his trajectory stopped with the injury.

I thought the same at the time, but I think now that we massively underestimated the gap between L1 and PL.

[MagicMartinoWoods]

I'd throw in Chris Brown and Jonathon Forte's early loan spells for effectiveness

[NickDRFC]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

I’m talking purely about the impact they’ve had for us, what they’ve done afterwards is neither here nor there. These 3 have been absolutely transformative for us.

You could possibly make a case for Richards or Dieng (although I would disagree).

[Filo]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

John Lundstrum, played European Football with Rangers

[NickDRFC]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

John Lundstrum, played European Football with Rangers

Also played for Rovers 4 or 5 years before Grant McCann managed us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

I’m talking purely about the impact they’ve had for us, what they’ve done afterwards is neither here nor there. These 3 have been absolutely transformative for us.

You could possibly make a case for Richards or Dieng (although I would disagree).

OK, but that wasn't what you said in the post I replied to.

[Filo]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

John Lundstrum, played European Football with Rangers

Also played for Rovers 4 or 5 years before Grant McCann managed us.

Can you point me to where it says best loan under McCann? Theres plenty of mentions of other players before McCann mentioned in previous posts, not sure why you felt the need to pick up on my post

[MachoMadness]

Josh Sims was unreal before injury and illness ruined his career. Absolutely unplayable.

[NickDRFC]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

I’m talking purely about the impact they’ve had for us, what they’ve done afterwards is neither here nor there. These 3 have been absolutely transformative for us.

You could possibly make a case for Richards or Dieng (although I would disagree).

OK, but that wasn't what you said in the post I replied to.

Yep, in fairness it was a bit vague but I wouldn't say that "better than any loanee we've had" is only interpretable as based on the ability they've shown in subsequent seasons. Jacob Ramsey has played 120 games in the Premier League so is clearly head and shoulders above the rest, but no-one would call him the best loanee we've had because he just didn't have that sort of impact for us (or rather, he didn't over a sustained period).

Didn't realise that Taylor Richards had signed for QPR. Hasn't really worked out for him so far, just the 4 sub appearances and the last one of those in December. Could well be injured.

[NickDRFC]

Let’s not forget Ben whiteman was on loan for half a season before he signed permanent. Scored a 10 minute hattrick in that spell if I’m not mistaken

Whiteman was just OK during his loan spell. Only excelled when he dropped deeper after he signed for us permanently.

I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January - TLT, Haks & Craig - are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here.

Err.
Jacob Ramsey?
Taylor Richards?
Senny Dieng?

Even Niall Ennis

They all performed very well at the top end of L1, and most have gone on to much higher things.

John Lundstrum, played European Football with Rangers

Also played for Rovers 4 or 5 years before Grant McCann managed us.

Can you point me to where it says best loan under McCann? Theres plenty of mentions of other players before McCann mentioned in previous posts, not sure why you felt the need to pick up on my post

You quoted posts where I had said "I’d say that each of the 3 loanees that we signed in January are better than any loanee that we’ve had since McCann was last here" and BST had pointed out 4 names who have played for us since then...

[Jonathan]

In terms of pure transformative impact these three have got to be right up there. Also a case that Kane and Wilks totally transformed the team they played in, as did Billy Sharp and Jason Shackell.

Whilst there’s a case for Taylor Richards, Seny Dieng and Jacob Ramsay (and all three were superb players that made an impact) I struggle to compare that impact with the above because (controversially I know) I just found myself so bored watching that team play. 

When you compare the atmosphere around the club now to before the arrival of these three players, that’s what you call a transformation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The goalposts have moved a fair way since I replied.

In terms of absolute ability, I'd argue Richards, Ennis, Ramsey and Dieng were better, at the time they played with us than the three we've signed this year.

[Jonathan]

I don’t even know which question I answered, or if I answered one at all!

[danumdon]

Jonathan's point hits the spot, regardless of other named recent loanees (who all made a personal impact) these three have been massively transformative for this current side.

When you look back to where we were and where we looked to be going the change has been colossal.

To go from talking about the possibility of none league to what some are now contemplating is off the scale.

Never know a sea change like this before, watching the Rovers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In terms of pure transformative impact these three have got to be right up there. Also a case that Kane and Wilks totally transformed the team they played in, as did Billy Sharp and Jason Shackell.

Whilst there’s a case for Taylor Richards, Seny Dieng and Jacob Ramsay (and all three were superb players that made an impact) I struggle to compare that impact with the above because (controversially I know) I just found myself so bored watching that team play. 

When you compare the atmosphere around the club now to before the arrival of these three players, that’s what you call a transformation.

PS.

I'm frequently bemused by people insisting they were bored by a team that gave us one of the very best calendar years in our history. I must have lower standards, because I thought we were a pleasure to watch through most of 2020, albeit through a computer screen for most of it.

[Campsall rover]

Herbie Kane looked like he was destined for to play at a higher level when he was with us.

Can't believe he's still a League 1 player 5 years on.

Your right. He hasn’t fulfilled his potential. Thought he would be a Championship player as a minimum.
Don’t forget though he has played in the Championship with Hull City and did he play with Barnsley there also? Not sure on that. He may play for Barnsley in the 2nd tier next season of course if they win the play offs.

Talking of Barnsley where is our friend from Barnsley TYKE.  Not heard from him for quite a while.

[Jonathan]

In terms of pure transformative impact these three have got to be right up there. Also a case that Kane and Wilks totally transformed the team they played in, as did Billy Sharp and Jason Shackell.

Whilst there’s a case for Taylor Richards, Seny Dieng and Jacob Ramsay (and all three were superb players that made an impact) I struggle to compare that impact with the above because (controversially I know) I just found myself so bored watching that team play. 

When you compare the atmosphere around the club now to before the arrival of these three players, that’s what you call a transformation.

PS.

I'm frequently bemused by people insisting they were bored by a team that gave us one of the very best calendar years in our history. I must have lower standards, because I thought we were a pleasure to watch through most of 2020, albeit through a computer screen for most of it.

Maybe you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I did say it’s a controversial view, and it wasn’t intended as a dig at Darren Moore. It could well have just been the time of life, I just didn’t find it exciting no matter how efficient we were.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I get that Jonathan. It was a difficult time for everyone and I'm sure that coloured the memories

But for 13 months from 1st week of 2020, our record in L1 was:

P37 W23 D5 L9 PTS74 PPG2.00

There haven't been many long term spells in our history where we've been better than that in any division.

[Dutch Uncle]

Jonathan's point hits the spot, regardless of other named recent loanees (who all made a personal impact) these three have been massively transformative for this current side.

When you look back to where we were and where we looked to be going the change has been colossal.

To go from talking about the possibility of none league to what some are now contemplating is off the scale.

Never know a sea change like this before, watching the Rovers.

Nothing to do with loanees, but the biggest positive transformation I can remember recently was 2008-9.

After 24 games we were cut adrift at the bottom of the Championship with 18 points. 8 games, 7 wins and 1 draw later we had 40 points, and people were thinking maybe even playoffs (a bit like this year).

I seem to remember that we had been playing OK but not getting results, then we won 4-2 at Forest and that one game seemed to lift spirits and confidence. No new signings, but IIRC SOD reluctantly brought Heffernan back into the side and that worked wonders.

For a negative transformation there was 2020-21, going from strong automatic promotion candidates at the half way stage (48 points from 23 games) to bottom of the table form for the remaining 23 games with only 16 points. Whiteman sold, Sims injured and rookie manager installed   

[BillyStubbsTears]

Did someone mention O'Driscoll and Heffernan?

Well...

[Dutch Uncle]

Did someone mention O'Driscoll and Heffernan?

Well...

I was aware of your opinions 

Must be me living too long on the other side of the Irish Sea

[streathamdave]

Ramsey didn't play enough to really judge him, but I rate the recent 3 above the other 3 mentioned. Dieng was a good keeper but (controversial view) I couldn't stand his positioning. Better than most keepers we've had recently but not much in it between him and Balcome. Lo-Tatala is an impressive keeper with a future as bright as either. Think Craig will be the mainstay of Scotlands midfield 5 years from now (maybe sooner). I'm amazed that Adelekun isn't playing at Lincoln. Are they trying to loan out a high earner? Make it make sense.

[ForsolongaRover]

Ramsey didn't play enough to really judge him, but I rate the recent 3 above the other 3 mentioned. Dieng was a good keeper but (controversial view) I couldn't stand his positioning. Better than most keepers we've had recently but not much in it between him and Balcome. Lo-Tatala is an impressive keeper with a future as bright as either. Think Craig will be the mainstay of Scotlands midfield 5 years from now (maybe sooner). I'm amazed that Adelekun isn't playing at Lincoln. Are they trying to loan out a high earner? Make it make sense.

Surprises me too, but they are on an amazing run without him, so perhaps he just did not fit in, hard as that is to imagine.

[idler]

My mate was talking to two Lincoln fans in the Belle Vue bar on Tuesday. They said that they had come to see a good game of football.
He asked them why they had let Adelakun come on loan to us and they said, “because he was crap”.One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. They obviously hadn’t been in the bar before because they didn’t know where the toilets were. We were sat with a couple from New York State in there. They love football (Soccer) and been to Charlton v Cheltenham before coming to Donny for the night. They were going down to Cambridge the day after, working their way back down to London for their Saturday flight home. Only here for a week so a bit too hectic for me. They love the English atmosphere and want to bring their 3 year old daughter when she grows up a bit. They also crammed the Man City v Arsenal game in. Must have cost a fortune as their Charlton tickets were £91 they said.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd throw in Chris Brown and Jonathon Forte's early loan spells for effectiveness

Re: Forte.
I was convinced he was going to play for England from what I saw of him in that first loan spell. He scored a goal against Swindon that was like something from another planet. Pace, touch, physical strength and a blistering finish.

Re: Brown.

He must go down as THE most successful loanee ever for us.

When he joined us we were in 10th place after a moderate start to the season.

He made 22 appearances. Our record in those was:

P22 W15 D6 L1 Pts51 PPG2.32

Plus he was an absolute joy to watch.

[scawsby steve]

I'd throw in Chris Brown and Jonathon Forte's early loan spells for effectiveness

Re: Forte.
I was convinced he was going to play for England from what I saw of him in that first loan spell. He scored a goal against Swindon that was like something from another planet. Pace, touch, physical strength and a blistering finish.

Re: Brown.

He must go down as THE most successful loanee ever for us.

When he joined us we were in 10th place after a moderate start to the season.

He made 22 appearances. Our record in those was:

P22 W15 D6 L1 Pts51 PPG2.32

Plus he was an absolute joy to watch.

Chris Brown was THE best hold-up player I've ever seen at any level of football. The ball used to stick to him as though he was covered in glue.

[selby]

  What Mathew Craig has to do, and any manager that signs him next season is play for a club that suits his style of play, a team that plays football through the lines and has decent strikers at the level they play at.
  He has the chance to play at the highest level, and complements his obvious football skills with the willingness to work hard up and down the field.
  I hope he goes far in the game, it has been a pleasure to watch him develop this season here.
 

[Copps is Magic]

Forte did not get anywhere near the level of most of the players discussed in this thread.

[Padge_DRFC]

I raise you Sam Johnstone

[Draytonian III]

What about a player who had two loans with us before he signed full time………………Neil Sullivan, he gave everyone confidence, staff,players,supporters and also had a quiet word to an attacker in a match vs Brentford