Craig vs Close

[GazLaz]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

[BessieBlue]

I see Craig and Close as two very different players - it would have been interesting to see them in the side together.

[Dougiebulletheader]

His stats maybe good but Close is nowhere near the player Craig is but I have not data to back that up just from watching. Hope I am proved wrong about Close I really do but he is not up to the fight, he goes missing and most of his passes go sideways or backwards..know who I would pick every time and it is not Close.

[pib]

Might be a barmy suggestion, but I've been pondering whether Close would be capable of playing the Biggins role if he leaves? Very different players but I think Close's quality in the final third is decent, and it would take some of the pressure off him having to do the defensive stuff.

[GazLaz]

Might be a barmy suggestion, but I've been pondering whether Close would be capable of playing the Biggins role if he leaves? Very different players but I think Close's quality in the final third is decent, and it would take some of the pressure off him having to do the defensive stuff.

Not quite got the athleticism.

I’ve always thought Close is at his best progressing  into the final third. He’s less effective if his starting position is too high up the pitch and probably not a natural sitter. He may play where Bailey has been playing with Bailey sitting. We can then get a runner on the left of the three.

[DearneValleyRover]

The impression I’ve got from what Grant has previously stated is that Broadbent will play where Craig played.

[DonnyOsmond]

The impression I’ve got from what Grant has previously stated is that Broadbent will play where Craig played.

Then God help us all.

[GazLaz]

The impression I’ve got from what Grant has previously stated is that Broadbent will play where Craig played.

He’s showed no signs of being good enough has he. He can improve, that’s not out of the question, but the improvement would have to come pretty quickly.

[DonnyOsmond]

The impression I’ve got from what Grant has previously stated is that Broadbent will play where Craig played.

He’s showed no signs of being good enough has he. He can improve, that’s not out of the question, but the improvement would have to come pretty quickly.

Certainly not to do that role. Maybe as backup to Bailey, although currently I'd be inclined to loan out Broadbent and find another option.

[Scooter]

Gazlaz - what does the data say about Broadbent? I really want him to be an important player for us but we have not seen it yet. Is there any statistical evidence to suggest he might come good?

[DearneValleyRover]

I’m not suggesting he can, only going on Grant’s opinion of him.

[Copps is Magic]

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5

That's not 'slightly more', it's something like a 21/23% difference.

[ForsolongaRover]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

I don’t think that data can take account of the willingness of players to challenge for the ball. In this respect Craig was always in the thick of it. Close never seemed to risk injury (perhaps wisely), but nevertheless was not as exciting or effective. I shall never be convinced that you can make the ultimate comparisons with data alone.

[pib]

Might be a barmy suggestion, but I've been pondering whether Close would be capable of playing the Biggins role if he leaves? Very different players but I think Close's quality in the final third is decent, and it would take some of the pressure off him having to do the defensive stuff.

Not quite got the athleticism.

I’ve always thought Close is at his best progressing  into the final third. He’s less effective if his starting position is too high up the pitch and probably not a natural sitter. He may play where Bailey has been playing with Bailey sitting. We can then get a runner on the left of the three.

Fair enough.

Any on your radar that you'd go for in that Biggins role if he goes?

[Mike_F]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

I don’t think that data can take account of the willingness of players to challenge for the ball. In this respect Craig was always in the thick of it. Close never seemed to risk injury (perhaps wisely), but nevertheless was not as exciting or effective. I shall never be convinced that you can make the ultimate comparisons with data alone.

And therein lies the X factor that needs human observation. Craig's impact on the game could have made opposing players adjust what they were doing to try and negate him thus leading to fewer opportunities to improve his stats.

[GazLaz]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

I don’t think that data can take account of the willingness of players to challenge for the ball. In this respect Craig was always in the thick of it. Close never seemed to risk injury (perhaps wisely), but nevertheless was not as exciting or effective. I shall never be convinced that you can make the ultimate comparisons with data alone.

Defensive actions takes into account ground duels, areal duels, tackles, interceptions etc. I have the breakdown of them all. Success rates at each, % of team contribution of each. Close isn’t bad without the ball.

It’s natural for fans to gravitate towards a player who smashes three tackles a game as opposed to someone, Bostock for example, who intercepts 9, 10, 11 times a game through great positioning, winning the ball back with the chance of buildings attacks.

[Nudga]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

I don’t think that data can take account of the willingness of players to challenge for the ball. In this respect Craig was always in the thick of it. Close never seemed to risk injury (perhaps wisely), but nevertheless was not as exciting or effective. I shall never be convinced that you can make the ultimate comparisons with data alone.

Defensive actions takes into account ground duels, areal duels, tackles, interceptions etc. I have the breakdown of them all. Success rates at each, % of team contribution of each. Close isn’t bad without the ball.

It’s natural for fans to gravitate towards a player who smashes three tackles a game as opposed to someone, Bostock for example, who intercepts 9, 10, 11 times a game through great positioning, winning the ball back with the chance of buildings attacks.

Something I coached a hell of a lot where not many kids liked a tackle so I taught them about shadowing players and stealing ball or blocking off passing lanes. Made a huge difference to those who couldn't or didn't like a tackle.
Same applies to the adult game. Tackling is a skill in itself, Craig and Bailey were top notch at 1v1 duals and leaving something on the opposition player.
You need clever players in there that see an early pass or read the oppo players body language and get possession back that way.
Close is that type of player but that side of the game doesn't get noticed.

[Ho]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

I don’t think that data can take account of the willingness of players to challenge for the ball. In this respect Craig was always in the thick of it. Close never seemed to risk injury (perhaps wisely), but nevertheless was not as exciting or effective. I shall never be convinced that you can make the ultimate comparisons with data alone.

Defensive actions takes into account ground duels, areal duels, tackles, interceptions etc. I have the breakdown of them all. Success rates at each, % of team contribution of each. Close isn’t bad without the ball.

It’s natural for fans to gravitate towards a player who smashes three tackles a game as opposed to someone, Bostock for example, who intercepts 9, 10, 11 times a game through great positioning, winning the ball back with the chance of buildings attacks.

Exactly the conversation I had with an ex Footballer yesterday - fans have a tendancy to bias towards those 'crowd pleasing' actions rather than the more impactful but 'understated' actions.

I've been having a look at match action data and can see, as Gaz has repeatedly suggested, that you can build something that will give a more objective view on a player's impact

[GazLaz]

Just looking through the end of season player data and in a comparison these two lads are remarkably similar in output. Maybe the Craig replacement is already here.

Craig carries out slightly more defensive actions per 90 than Close- 21.48 vs 17.5 but Close has a higher success rate at 72.5 vs 60.6.

In possession very very similar although close does his work a bit higher up the pitch.

Looking forward to seeing Close in (potentially) a better team best season.

I don’t think that data can take account of the willingness of players to challenge for the ball. In this respect Craig was always in the thick of it. Close never seemed to risk injury (perhaps wisely), but nevertheless was not as exciting or effective. I shall never be convinced that you can make the ultimate comparisons with data alone.

Defensive actions takes into account ground duels, areal duels, tackles, interceptions etc. I have the breakdown of them all. Success rates at each, % of team contribution of each. Close isn’t bad without the ball.

It’s natural for fans to gravitate towards a player who smashes three tackles a game as opposed to someone, Bostock for example, who intercepts 9, 10, 11 times a game through great positioning, winning the ball back with the chance of buildings attacks.

Exactly the conversation I had with an ex Footballer yesterday - fans have a tendancy to bias towards those 'crowd pleasing' actions rather than the more impactful but 'understated' actions.

I've been having a look at match action data and can see, as Gaz has repeatedly suggested, that you can build something that will give a more objective view on a player's impact

It’s a game of interceptions now not tackles.

So many biases built in to humans. Some players just get favoured because of how they look. A player with a distinctive hair cut can stand out more that someone who blends in.

[steve@dcfd]

We played better when Close was injured than when he played.

[streathamdave]

For me I do see Close and Craig as similar, but I like what I've seen of Craig more. I hope Close can do better than I think he can, but am concerned that relying on Close could be next seasons Lawlor as number 1 this season moment. Craig will have a top career in my opinion. Hard to replace.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We played better when Close was injured than when he played.

That's certainly not true of the first 2/3rds of the season.

[steve@dcfd]

We played better when Close was injured than when he played.

That's certainly not true of the first 2/3rds of the season.

We did in the last 20 games though Billy when Close and Westbrooke were side lined. Putting Bailey and Craig together after Bradford game were Close got injured turned our season round.

[graingrover]

The impact that generative AI will have ( is having ) is beyond my education and this beyond my comprehension but am interested on hearing you guys on the topic sometime on here ( please) .For instance with Generative AI could  you input all the data from an opposition team of individuals and develop an intelligent game plan to counter them?

[sedwardsdrfc]

Close is good on the ball so he does fit the profile of the deeper midfield role that Craig played and if alongside Bailey you’ve someone who does the dirty work.

I’m not sure we will sign a better permanent midfielder on the ball for that role. Whilst we could get another loanee who fills the role it does seem very hit and miss.

On Broadbent I only see him as playing the box to box role. He needs a good preseason

[GazLaz]

The impact that generative AI will have ( is having ) is beyond my education and this beyond my comprehension but am interested on hearing you guys on the topic sometime on here ( please) .For instance with Generative AI could  you input all the data from an opposition team of individuals and develop an intelligent game plan to counter them?

Yes it happens now. England Rugby have just started using it.


You can model potential signings into your team to see how they will impact the team. Eg. We have a shortlist of 5 players to replace Moly, we could run 10,000 game simulations for each player to monitor their output in our system/ alongside our existing players, then prioritise the most suited.


We have a match outcome model that uses individual player data as opposed to team data to churn out probable outcomes. This then essentially trains itself as it goes along. These are processes that are eventually going to take over how all clubs are run.

[selby]

  If I was a defender I would not want Close anywhere in front of me. If it is stats you want just look at points won before and after Close got injured.
  The Kings Lynn No 8 asked if he could play against him every match please.
  If nothing else he is a jinx if they do stats for  that.

[jmt23]

Close is not similar to Craig, very very different players, Craig is an extremely good all rounder, and very combative. Interesting stats that seem to have them in a similar place though!

Close is more Brian Stock like, keeps the ball moving and dictates the play, my only gripe with Close is at times that dictation in play can be too slow. I do like him as a player though, very good quality for this level.

I do worry about the midfield as it really worked with Bailey, Craig and the attacking press from Biggins. What we are left with is not the same.

[steve@dcfd]

I have faith that Grant will ensure the midfield will be as good if not better than we finished. With Close Westbrooke and Broadbent has back ups

[drfcsteve]

People are genuinely forgetting earlier in the season when Close was the only thing we had going for us to either score or create a goal.