National Servce

[tommy toes]

Just the thing to attract right wing elderly dyed in the wool Tory voters, who yearn to return to the good old days of the 1950s.
Give them yobs some backbone.
Cue a mad rush of 18 year olds desperate to vote Labour.
Wise move Rishi.

[Not Now Kato]

I wonder if any of these dyed in the wool Tory voters will ask themselves “Where is the infrastructure for all this going to come from?”.

[Bentley Bullet]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

[Not Now Kato]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

So are you saying they only become yobs when they’re 18 BB?

[Bentley Bullet]

No. What makes you think that?

[Darren]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

I have two teenage sons that are not yobs, they dont roam the streets, but hey, lets put them all in uniform.

[Not Now Kato]

No. What makes you think that?

Your post.

[Bentley Bullet]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

I have two teenage sons that are not yobs, they dont roam the streets, but hey, lets put them all in uniform.

I've not said I agree with it. I've said there are people other than dyed-in-the-wool Tories who will, though.

[SydneyRover]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

What yobs? if they are yobs who would want them 'helping out' in the NHS?

[tommy toes]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

I know they don’t. That’s why it’s futile.
If you knew your history you’d know that gangs of kids roaming the streets up to no good has been going on for hundreds of years.

[ncRover]

No. What makes you think that?

The National Service being proposed is for 18 year olds.

Old men of every generation have said something along the lines of “the youth of today are bad” but the world keeps spinning.

[ncRover]

Also they’ve said that there will be no criminal charges for those who don’t do it.

If we take the extreme hypothetical of an 18-year old knife-wielding drug dealer, I don’t think you’re gonna get them to turn up to make cups of tea in a care home.

[SydneyRover]

Yobs, if you can't serve in the army, try one of these ...........

''The proposals would see a “bold new model of national service” for 18-year-olds that could see them opt to spend one weekend per month volunteering in roles such as special constable, RNLI volunteer, or NHS responder. Officials claimed it would give young people “real world skills, while contributing to their country and community”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/25/sunak-promises-to-bring-back-national-service-for-18-year-olds

There could be a 'Yob a bob week'

[IDM]

Whilst it would be very unfair to generalise the younger generation as lazy and workshy, as very many are not, there are many who are.  Not deliberately, IMHO, but you do get some who appear to think that society owes them something, rather than having to work for it.  I see some at work who simply don't care, and lack a lot of self discipline.

As an ex-military person of some years, I don't disagree with some principles behind national service, in that it should instil discipline and work ethic in the young generation.

As said, many don't need it, and there are lots of amazing young achievers and hardworkers out there.

I don't think it should be a political thing though.

[ncRover]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

I know they don’t. That’s why it’s futile.
If you knew your history you’d know that gangs of kids roaming the streets up to no good has been going on for hundreds of years.

It’s probably at its lowest rate in hundreds of years!

[Not Now Kato]

Yobs, if you can't serve in the army, try one of these ...........

''The proposals would see a “bold new model of national service” for 18-year-olds that could see them opt to spend one weekend per month volunteering in roles such as special constable, RNLI volunteer, or NHS responder. Officials claimed it would give young people “real world skills, while contributing to their country and community”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/25/sunak-promises-to-bring-back-national-service-for-18-year-olds

There could be a 'Yob a bob week'

All of which need specialised training, they can’t just turn up!

[IDM]

Yobs, if you can't serve in the army, try one of these ...........

''The proposals would see a “bold new model of national service” for 18-year-olds that could see them opt to spend one weekend per month volunteering in roles such as special constable, RNLI volunteer, or NHS responder. Officials claimed it would give young people “real world skills, while contributing to their country and community”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/25/sunak-promises-to-bring-back-national-service-for-18-year-olds

There could be a 'Yob a bob week'

Isn't that currently known as community service, ie a sentence handed out for misdemeanours??

[Bentley Bullet]

Dyed in the wool Tory voters don't need attracting. Maybe there are plenty of voters from all colours who would like to see the back of yobs roaming the streets, though.

I know they don’t. That’s why it’s futile.
If you knew your history you’d know that gangs of kids roaming the streets up to no good has been going on for hundreds of years.

I know my history TT. Not long back in history, there were people on this forum complaining about yobs acting like morons among the Rovers followers. I'm sure those complaining weren't all dyed-in-the-wool Tories.

Maybe one or two of those complainants would like to see them conscripted?

[Not Now Kato]

Yobs, if you can't serve in the army, try one of these ...........

''The proposals would see a “bold new model of national service” for 18-year-olds that could see them opt to spend one weekend per month volunteering in roles such as special constable, RNLI volunteer, or NHS responder. Officials claimed it would give young people “real world skills, while contributing to their country and community”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/25/sunak-promises-to-bring-back-national-service-for-18-year-olds

There could be a 'Yob a bob week'

Isn't that currently known as community service, ie a sentence handed out for misdemeanours??

Special Constable? RNLI? NHS Responder? When have these been part of a community service sentence?

[IDM]

Not those specifically, I was more generalising about the idea of "volunteering" to contribute to the community, rather than the specific roles.  Of course some roles aren't for offenders.

I think the alternative of weekend volunteering is a waste of time, if you have national service, do it via the military as a real alternative to unemployment.  Working folks and students exempt.

[Not Now Kato]

Where is the infrastructure to monitor this IDM?

[SydneyRover]

Yobs, if you can't serve in the army, try one of these ...........

''The proposals would see a “bold new model of national service” for 18-year-olds that could see them opt to spend one weekend per month volunteering in roles such as special constable, RNLI volunteer, or NHS responder. Officials claimed it would give young people “real world skills, while contributing to their country and community”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/25/sunak-promises-to-bring-back-national-service-for-18-year-olds

There could be a 'Yob a bob week'

Isn't that currently known as community service, ie a sentence handed out for misdemeanours??

Quite possibly, but who gets the gig to pick out the 'yobs' from the rest?

[IDM]

Where is the infrastructure to monitor this IDM?

No idea, but perhaps could be linked to benefit claims, after a significant period of time unemployed? 

I don't think our military currently has the infrastructure to work this anyway. It's just my perspective of what National Service could mean if it were to happen. 

[Filo]

Given the age of the last conscripts today would be 82, how many advocating National service would have actually done it, and know anything about it?

[tommy toes]

Nothings changed…


The historian Geoffrey Pearson quotes a 60-year-old named Charlotte Kirkman, who lamented that, “I think morals are getting much worse... There were no such girls in my time as there are now. When I was four or five and twenty my mother would have knocked me down if I had spoken improperly to her”. Kirkman was speaking in 1843, as part of an investigation into the bad behaviour of contemporary youth. Lord Ashley, speaking in the House of Commons in the same year, argued that “the morals of the children are tenfold worse than formerly”.

[SydneyRover]

This half-arsed idea has 'thought bubble' written all over it. No planning, no money, no proof of concept.

[ncRover]

Nothings changed…


The historian Geoffrey Pearson quotes a 60-year-old named Charlotte Kirkman, who lamented that, “I think morals are getting much worse... There were no such girls in my time as there are now. When I was four or five and twenty my mother would have knocked me down if I had spoken improperly to her”. Kirkman was speaking in 1843, as part of an investigation into the bad behaviour of contemporary youth. Lord Ashley, speaking in the House of Commons in the same year, argued that “the morals of the children are tenfold worse than formerly”.

This shows that everyone thinks the world was best when they were a teenager

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Most 18 year olds want to contribute in some way. Give them an option that is fair (paid) and it could be a huge boost in many areas.  But not without big funding.

I'd do something like paying for it with a 1% social levy on wealthy pensioners as a community contribution. I'd also pay it through local not central government budgets.

[Filo]

Most 18 year olds want to contribute in some way. Give them an option that is fair (paid) and it could be a huge boost in many areas.  But not without big funding.

I'd do something like paying for it with a 1% social levy on wealthy pensioners as a community contribution. I'd also pay it through local not central government budgets.

Why not a levy on high earners and millionaires?

[DonnyOsmond]

I reckon more people would get behind National Service as a punishment, for example, police arrest someone for a lesser crime, carrying a weapon, assault, theft... Then they should be charged with time serving in the military and where they would learn discipline and assist with lowering over crowding in prisons. You don't need to enforce it on the 99% of young people who just want to learn/work and keep their heads down.