Gareth Southgate

[NickDRFC]

Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains  midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role.  So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.

On the whole they might not be quite as good as we think they are and build them up to be, but we've had the PL player of the season and the La Liga player of the season who have been poor for the majority of the tournament. They play for 2 of the best club managers of all time in Pep Guardiola & Carlo Ancelotti who have managed to get the best out of them, do you not think that any questions should be asked of the manager for failing to get even a fraction of that form out of them?

[Herbert Anchovy]

I'm probably setting myself up for some stick here but I really felt for Kane during this tournament. At Spurs and at Munich he played with 2 players either side of him to make space and get the ball into the 6 yard box. If you notice, the very few times we got the ball to the touchline and into the penalty area he was always there. You don't score the goals he has by being a bad player. Yet so often in Germany he was a lone man up front trying to chase high balls! He has neither the speed or the height to play like this. He was sold a real pup. 

As for Southgate I'm in a bit of a dilemma! He's been by far the most successful England manager during my lifetime of watching football and in the light of day, his record is excellent. Yet, watching his England sides play so defensive is dull and uninspiring and, in my view, doesn't play to our strengths! I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on!

[Filo]

Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains  midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role.  So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.

On the whole they might not be quite as good as we think they are and build them up to be, but we've had the PL player of the season and the La Liga player of the season who have been poor for the majority of the tournament. They play for 2 of the best club managers of all time in Pep Guardiola & Carlo Ancelotti who have managed to get the best out of them, do you not think that any questions should be asked of the manager for failing to get even a fraction of that form out of them?

Those 2 players are surrounded by World Class players at club level, Foden in particular is bang average without his exceptional City team mates around him

[ncRover]

none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Give over.

[NickDRFC]

Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains  midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role.  So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.

On the whole they might not be quite as good as we think they are and build them up to be, but we've had the PL player of the season and the La Liga player of the season who have been poor for the majority of the tournament. They play for 2 of the best club managers of all time in Pep Guardiola & Carlo Ancelotti who have managed to get the best out of them, do you not think that any questions should be asked of the manager for failing to get even a fraction of that form out of them?

Those 2 players are surrounded by World Class players at club level, Foden in particular is bang average without his exceptional City team mates around him

He's not a competition winner, he's earned his place as a key part of that exceptional side because of his ability.

He has to take some responsibility for not stepping up but his place in the setup wasn't working until late on in the tournament. A different manager may have got more out of him.

[arkseyrover]

Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.

[MachoMadness]

I'm probably setting myself up for some stick here but I really felt for Kane during this tournament. At Spurs and at Munich he played with 2 players either side of him to make space and get the ball into the 6 yard box. If you notice, the very few times we got the ball to the touchline and into the penalty area he was always there. You don't score the goals he has by being a bad player. Yet so often in Germany he was a lone man up front trying to chase high balls! He has neither the speed or the height to play like this. He was sold a real pup. 

As for Southgate I'm in a bit of a dilemma! He's been by far the most successful England manager during my lifetime of watching football and in the light of day, his record is excellent. Yet, watching his England sides play so defensive is dull and uninspiring and, in my view, doesn't play to our strengths! I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on!

Kane had a good tournament, relatively speaking. Did everything he was asked to do and still popped up with 3 goals in a side that struggled with build-up and chance creation, all while not fully fit. He's still the best number 9 in world football.

[ForsolongaRover]

I can live with that , we lost to a far better team , simple as that .

I don't feel hard done by or frustrated because the best team won and dominated the majority of the game .

Some of our bigger names probably aren't as good at this level as they are portrayed and it showed tonight .

Well done Spain , worthy winners with some outstanding young players .

I agree and unless you are able to see regular performances from international teams it is surely difficult to judge that one “should be better (if better managed)” against any other international teams. I know it is a well-worn proposition, but with such a high proportion of foreign players embedded in all European club teams, there must be an adverse effect on the development of native talent. Germany were more effective internationally before their club recruitment widened and I know Spain is well populated with non-nationals too, but England is surely the most heavily affected. There seems to be only a small proportion of home-born academy players at top clubs who make it to the first team. This may not constitute definitive proof, but it is arguably the case.

I cannot claim to have watched lots of the games this time, but I did think that England (unattractive as their style was early on) improved as the tournament progressed and I was surprised how effective their style of play was at suppressing the enterprise of their opponents. And this included Spain who were restricted in playing their usual game. So overall, second place to a team with seemingly better individual talent, could be the result of better coordination and deployment of the abilities of the individual team members than most of Southgate's international counterparts

[DonnyOsmond]

I'm probably setting myself up for some stick here but I really felt for Kane during this tournament. At Spurs and at Munich he played with 2 players either side of him to make space and get the ball into the 6 yard box. If you notice, the very few times we got the ball to the touchline and into the penalty area he was always there. You don't score the goals he has by being a bad player. Yet so often in Germany he was a lone man up front trying to chase high balls! He has neither the speed or the height to play like this. He was sold a real pup. 

As for Southgate I'm in a bit of a dilemma! He's been by far the most successful England manager during my lifetime of watching football and in the light of day, his record is excellent. Yet, watching his England sides play so defensive is dull and uninspiring and, in my view, doesn't play to our strengths! I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on!

Agree with this. Not sure if we can fit Foden and Kane into the same team, Foden probably needs a focal point to work off, which Kane isn't, where as like you say Kane needs runners to stretch play like he's had with club teams and with Rashford and Sterling before.

[steve@dcfd]

none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Give over.

Spain RB better than Walker
Spain LB in this tournament better than both that have played there.
Laporte better than Guehi only just
Stones better than other CH
Rodri better than a poor Rice
Ruiz been better than Mainoo
Olmo better than Foden by a mile in this tournament which showed last night. Bellingham playing in the Role would be mor competitive
Williams totally different player to Bellingham so he wouldn’t get in that Role
Saka completely out of the game last night and Yamal better tournament
Kane been poor all tournament is a better goal scorer than Morata but he beats Kane on work rate


So in my opinion only Stones would get in the side as an improvement on what they’ve got.

[McCammon egg n chips]

It's quite obvious Southgate has taken us as far as he can. Thanks for turning us into a footballing force again. The last six years have had some amazing highs.

Leading a World Cup semi final at half time
Coming so close to winning the Euros in 2021
Scraping into another final this time out

But let's face it, we've rode our luck this tournament. It still hurt to lose, but not like 2021. We knew we were lucky to be in the final. And once we'd got back into the match we decided to retreat back into our own half.

It's time for some different tactics and a new manager.

[ncRover]

none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Give over.

Spain RB better than Walker
Spain LB in this tournament better than both that have played there.
Laporte better than Guehi only just
Stones better than other CH
Rodri better than a poor Rice
Ruiz been better than Mainoo
Olmo better than Foden by a mile in this tournament which showed last night. Bellingham playing in the Role would be mor competitive
Williams totally different player to Bellingham so he wouldn’t get in that Role
Saka completely out of the game last night and Yamal better tournament
Kane been poor all tournament is a better goal scorer than Morata but he beats Kane on work rate


So in my opinion only Stones would get in the side as an improvement on what they’ve got.

I’m talking about the players regardless of tournament form as Gareth has set ours up to look poor.

What makes the Spanish GK better than Pickford?

Morata is a good player but no better than Watkins or Kane.

Saka would put Yemal on the bench. He’s done what he has for 5 years at Arsenal.

Bellingham is better than Olmo.

Guehi is better than Laporte (plays Saudi league).

Cucurella no better than Shaw.

Put our attacking players in that Spanish system of round pegs in round holes and you’d see how good they were.

Whereas if you put our manager in charge of Spain they wouldn’t have won the euros.

[Jonathan]

I do feel like we need to change things up a bit now and that means a change in manager. I’d like Southgate to open that door of his own accord and leave with his head held high. I feel like he’s taken this team as far as he can (which is nearly all the way) and there are too many questions around what we could achieve with a different approach. Exactly who comes in to replace him I do not know, and that’s a problem in itself. Whoever the next manager is, I think we need to get rid of any notion that they’ll instantly turn this team from runners up to champions elect. I’d love it if they did, but they’ve got a job on to even match Southgate’s tournament record let alone better it. The thing is it’s gone a little stale now and we have to try. Southgate leaves with a brilliant record and having totally raised the bar of realistic expectation.

[MachoMadness]

I do feel like we need to change things up a bit now and that means a change in manager. I’d like Southgate to open that door of his own accord and leave with his head held high. I feel like he’s taken this team as far as he can (which is nearly all the way) and there are too many questions around what we could achieve with a different approach. Exactly who comes in to replace him I do not know, and that’s a problem in itself. Whoever the next manager is, I think we need to get rid of any notion that they’ll instantly turn this team from runners up to champions elect. I’d love it if they did, but they’ve got a job on to even match Southgate’s tournament record let alone better it. The thing is it’s gone a little stale now and we have to try. Southgate leaves with a brilliant record and having totally raised the bar of realistic expectation.

Would agree with this. There will always be a bit of a debate with Southgate. Yes he arguably has the best record of any England manager in history - but was it as good as it should've been? He was brought in because the bods at the FA identified that tournament winning teams tend to be disciplined, defensively solid, and good in both boxes at set pieces. He delivered on that brief, but also shows a reluctance to deviate and adapt.

On balance I think we have had more positives than negatives with him and he should be proud of his record. He restored pride in the national team and got rid of the toxic dressing room atmosphere, which is no mean feat given where we were after the Hodgson/Allardyce debacles. And his record at tournaments over the years is as good as any international manager working today - except without that win to top it all off.

But he's probably run out of road now and needs to go. I think his tactics have been largely solved by opposition teams, it's not clear our current crops of players suit his system, and I don't know if he's shown he can adapt in response.

[Metalmicky]

interesting table from BBC that seems to indicate we were very poor offensively......... and definitely beaten by the best team in the tournament...

[arkseyrover]

All these meaningless statistics are a big part of what is wrong with todays boring brand of football. As a spectator I want to see exciting games played by skilful footballers who are able to show their talent and I want to watch shots at goal rather than constant passing and keepy ball with real goals being scored not mathematical averages and being fed a load of pretend figures.

[mushRTID]

All these meaningless statistics are a big part of what is wrong with todays boring brand of football. As a spectator I want to see exciting games played by skilful footballers who are able to show their talent and I want to watch shots at goal rather than constant passing and keepy ball with real goals being scored not mathematical averages and being fed a load of pretend figures.

The stats posted above aren’t meaningless though.
They confirm what everybody watched, that we were crap 90% of the tournament!

[arkseyrover]

Mush you dont need stats and 'expert' analysts and pundits to tell you that what you watched was boring or rubbish. You just need your own eyes.

[mushRTID]

I absolutely agree.
But some people will say your been negative, we got to a final, etc etc

So it’s good to see it confirmed in the stats just how poor we’ve been.

[DonnyOsmond]

All these meaningless statistics are a big part of what is wrong with todays boring brand of football. As a spectator I want to see exciting games played by skilful footballers who are able to show their talent and I want to watch shots at goal rather than constant passing and keepy ball with real goals being scored not mathematical averages and being fed a load of pretend figures.

We're Spain boring?

[GazLaz]

Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains  midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role.  So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones

Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.

It doesn’t. Is that like saying none of the French or German side wouldn’t get in the Spanish side because they are better than them as well?

[tyke1962]

Excellent article in the Graun ,

Worth a read .


Turning point: the England throw-in that encapsulated 58 years of hurt | Jonathan Liew https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/15/turning-point-england-kyle-walker-throw-in-euro-2024-final-spain?CMP=share_btn_url

[dickos1]

Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.

On my way back to England you clown.

[dickos1]

We were beaten by the better side and many of our players didn’t turn up. Foden, mainoo, saka, Kane, rice were terrific against Holland yet a few days later they don’t turn up in the same system in the same positions. That is down to them not the manager.
I was sat watching Southgate screaming at rice and Bellingham to get further up the pitch when it was 1-1 as they were both playing as centre halves but they either couldn’t or they didn’t think they should as they just sat there getting deeper and deeper but Southgate was screaming at them to get up.
Kane obviously wasn’t fit,

But we’ve got to another final this scenario is more of a be careful what you wish for scenario than one ive ever experienced before.
Big chance we go backwards with a new manager, big chance

[sedwardsdrfc]

On tournament result only there’s a big chance we go backwards whoever is manager even Southgate.

For me him picking Kane when he’s not fit to the detriment of the team says he won’t win anything. No one is too big to be dropped. I was watching thinking if it’s 0-0 when Kane comes off we’ve a chance of doing it.

Got a lot of time for what he’s done but I just can’t get on board with that type of decision which just lacked bravery. Seems to be a thing Southgate struggles with

[drfcsteve]

We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.

I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.

Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.

Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.

Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.

Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.

[dickos1]

We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.

I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.

Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.

Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.

Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.

Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.

No we played the same formation as the Holland and Swiss games. Foden and Bellingham as number 10s

In the games u mention foden was stuck on the left wing,
To say he’s cost us in 4 tournaments disregarding how we got to the semis and the finals is beyond belief.
Just think about the state we were when he took over going from that to euros finals and World Cup semi finals is not him costing us

[ncRover]

We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.

I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.

Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.

Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.

Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.

Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.

No we played the same formation as the Holland and Swiss games. Foden and Bellingham as number 10s

In the games u mention foden was stuck on the left wing,
To say he’s cost us in 4 tournaments disregarding how we got to the semis and the finals is beyond belief.
Just think about the state we were when he took over going from that to euros finals and World Cup semi finals is not him costing us

Why are past failures an excuse for current failure?

And what do you like about this 3-7-0 formation and system?

[Lesonthewest]

I absolutely agree.
But some people will say your been negative, we got to a final, etc etc

So it’s good to see it confirmed in the stats just how poor we’ve been.

Aye, some 'people' will still have their blinkers on.

[Lesonthewest]

Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.

On my way back to England you clown.

Here come the petty insults.