Penalty Decision

[Alan Southstand]

The thing that gets me is - why doesn’t Ironside get penalties regularly then, because he’s assaulted on a regular basis! If these things do ‘even themselves out’ then we must be owed quite a few.

[NickDRFC]

While Tom had hands on Stockley, throughout the incident Stockley is also all over Tom - and throughout the game as a whole, as a defender what else can you do if you’re being assaulted by a lump of an attacker than use your arms / body to defend. It wasn’t Tom blocking a run or grabbing an attacker trying to jump for the ball, it was a physical match up where Stockley flopped on the floor still holding on to Tom. Never a pen. As Spud says I also thought for about ten seconds that the ref hadn’t given it as he seemed to wave it away then change his mind.

Have you watched the highlights? Like I said earlier in the thread, the camera isn’t on them for long so can’t see the full incident but Stockley is moving away from Anderson when he goes down so definitely not holding him, and the ref gives it pretty much instantly.

Yeah, was at the game but watched the highlights last night. It may look less of an incident in the short clip on the highlights but in the context of the game and how physical Stockley was being throughout and in the build up to that I’m not sure what else Tom could do other than keep letting him have free headers. Their number 4 assaulted Billy one second after the kick off and kept at it rest of the half. I don’t think the Tom one was any different to what had been happening all afternoon, just in my opinion.

That’s fair enough with the wider context but I don’t think the camera can alter things like “Stockley flopped on the floor still holding on to Tom”.

Looks like there’s going to be a lot of disagreement on this incident but fortunately it didn’t impact the result and maybe moving forward we can get a bit more clarity on what is/isn’t acceptable and adapt our approach accordingly.

[redbrez]

Why do refs fall for obvious fake dives?
Yes there was pulling and hustling , but if Anderson had pulled him strongly wouldn't he have fallen more in backwards direction?

[StocksArmy]

Why do refs fall for obvious fake dives?
Yes there was pulling and hustling , but if Anderson had pulled him strongly wouldn't he have fallen more in backwards direction?

This is exactly my point. I have watched it a lot of times now and there is less than normal contact from TA and Stockley even has hold of his shirt. The decision is worse every time I watch it. I’d like to see the sky sports replay in slow motion with close up view.

[ravenrover]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D8AA7rmhiU3A&ved=2ahUKEwj20JPQtKGIAxUKWkEAHYP5ItUQwqsBegQIEBAG&usg=AOvVaw0VUolQrvr1UP1gJ4VnQQkQ

3mins 23 discusses interpretation of holding

What we’re looking at is the clear holding offences that impact the ability of the attacker to get onto the ball, or the clear impact on the ability of the attacker doing something with the ball.
“So if the defender’s actions are to deliberately bring the player down by holding him, sustained, impactful, then we’re going to penalise that whether that’s on the ball or off the ball.”
And Friend noted that although it may be missed initially by the on-field referee, the team of officials should come down harder on holding in the box further away from the ball too.
Friend said: “The more away from the ball, the more severe it has got to be. We saw a couple of examples last season of defending players rugby tackling attacking players 15 yards away from where the ball was.
“It’s very difficult on field for the referee but again we’re empowering, encouraging the referees as a team to understand the team tactics, what players are doing, how they’re setting up and actually identifying these little areas.”

[andyst79]

The thing that gets me is - why doesn’t Ironside get penalties regularly then, because he’s assaulted on a regular basis! If these things do ‘even themselves out’ then we must be owed quite a few.

Because he doesn't go to ground like a complete pansy I should imagine

[Lesonthewest]

While Tom had hands on Stockley, throughout the incident Stockley is also all over Tom - and throughout the game as a whole, as a defender what else can you do if you’re being assaulted by a lump of an attacker than use your arms / body to defend. It wasn’t Tom blocking a run or grabbing an attacker trying to jump for the ball, it was a physical match up where Stockley flopped on the floor still holding on to Tom. Never a pen. As Spud says I also thought for about ten seconds that the ref hadn’t given it as he seemed to wave it away then change his mind.

Have you watched the highlights? Like I said earlier in the thread, the camera isn’t on them for long so can’t see the full incident but Stockley is moving away from Anderson when he goes down so definitely not holding him, and the ref gives it pretty much instantly.

Yeah, was at the game but watched the highlights last night. It may look less of an incident in the short clip on the highlights but in the context of the game and how physical Stockley was being throughout and in the build up to that I’m not sure what else Tom could do other than keep letting him have free headers. Their number 4 assaulted Billy one second after the kick off and kept at it rest of the half. I don’t think the Tom one was any different to what had been happening all afternoon, just in my opinion.

There were at least 3 very poor challenges against us second & the ref gave nothing. I agree he was poor both sides, but second half especially, his decision making favoured the home side.

[Alan Southstand]

Gone to great lengths to explain what holding is all about, whilst ignoring what GM told us about their meeting pre-season. Also, explain how Yeboah didn’t get a penalty second half and their guy, first half, who stopped Gibson going through by hand balling (which the ref gave as a free kick but gave no further punishment).

[StocksArmy]

Gone to great lengths to explain what holding is all about, whilst ignoring what GM told us about their meeting pre-season. Also, explain how Yeboah didn’t get a penalty second half and their guy, first half, who stopped Gibson going through by hand balling (which the ref gave as a free kick but gave no further punishment).

I have watched full match replay on rovers+ and the challenge on Yeboah wasn’t a penalty but was assault in comparison to the one we gave away.

[Alickismyhero]

A referees view.

The ref cheated!!!!! the ref was very poor!!!!!,  The worst ref ever!!!just read back.

When you express your opinion on a refs poor performance just bear in mind its a very difficult job and you find that out even at junior level.

Have you had a go at reffing? have you done a refs course? I am sure it would have an affect on how you express your views

You pay your money and you are welcome to your opinion but at the end of the day you would have more credibility if you had had ago at it

Have you ever wondered why players dont take up reffing after they retire from the game!!!!!!

I reffed for many years at youth level and yes I made mistakes, it happens not because I was cheating.

I dont always support the ref but I will always express my views respectfully.

When I watch youth games now I offer my advice to young refs if I can help him/her after the game,

[IDM]

A referees view.

The ref cheated!!!!! the ref was very poor!!!!!,  The worst ref ever!!!just read back.

When you express your opinion on a refs poor performance just bear in mind its a very difficult job and you find that out even at junior level.

Have you had a go at reffing? have you done a refs course? I am sure it would have an affect on how you express your views

You pay your money and you are welcome to your opinion but at the end of the day you would have more credibility if you had had ago at it

Have you ever wondered why players dont take up reffing after they retire from the game!!!!!!

I reffed for many years at youth level and yes I made mistakes, it happens not because I was cheating.

I dont always support the ref but I will always express my views respectfully.

When I watch youth games now I offer my advice to young refs if I can help him/her after the game,

And at this level the ref gets one view, in real time, and often not the best view.

You give what you see, not what you thought you saw.  You’re right, it isn’t easy.  I did it for a few years about 30 years ago having been outraged at a shocking performance (at conference level).

[Bentley Bullet]

My lad was running the line in a kid's game at Bentley High Street School a few years back. I was standing behind him when the ball came off a red-shirted player before going out for a throw in and in an attempt to help him I said "Red Ball!" He took my word for it and put the flag up in the wrong direction.

It was then I realised how hard it is to make the right decision even when it is as clear as day!

I did feel a bit guilty walking away whistling as he got dogs abuse from the home crowd. 

[StocksArmy]

A referees view.

The ref cheated!!!!! the ref was very poor!!!!!,  The worst ref ever!!!just read back.

When you express your opinion on a refs poor performance just bear in mind its a very difficult job and you find that out even at junior level.

Have you had a go at reffing? have you done a refs course? I am sure it would have an affect on how you express your views

You pay your money and you are welcome to your opinion but at the end of the day you would have more credibility if you had had ago at it

Have you ever wondered why players dont take up reffing after they retire from the game!!!!!!

I reffed for many years at youth level and yes I made mistakes, it happens not because I was cheating.

I dont always support the ref but I will always express my views respectfully.

When I watch youth games now I offer my advice to young refs if I can help him/her after the game,

And despite what you just said it was still a horrific decision.

[Alan Southstand]

Alick - I could have the utmost respect for these guys if they showed the same respect to both sides, but therein lies the problem - they’re not consistent. It might not be easy - nobody ever said it was, but all people want is if you give it out to one side then you have to do the same to the other, but all too often we see the opposite to that.

My heart bleeds for Ironside every game I watch him. The punishment he puts up with and hardly any protection from referees. It’s unfathomable.

The standards throughout the EFL have dropped considerably and particularly the lower down the pyramid you go. Over a season we might be lucky and get maybe 3 or 4 decent referees but that’s about it.

And don’t get me started on West Stand Lino’s!

[Bentley Bullet]

I still insist we were cheated out of the Championship by officials under Dickov in 2015.

Apart from that, the two most blatant acts of referees cheating in my experience of watching Rovers were Jack Pickles (V Notts County) at Belle Vue in the 60s, and Mick Russell v Portsmouth at the Keepmoat in 2012.

[donnievic]

All these that don’t think it’s a penalty are all saying they wouldn’t want one if it was for us infront of the south stand,get real both was holding and the ref obviously thought Anderson was the aggressor,happens in both boxes all the time I agree but there wasn’t really any need to do it as the ball was going too long.and think what the mean when not in the vicinity is when there probably holding at far  post like they was and ball only going near.

[Dutch Uncle]

I still insist we were cheated out of the Championship by officials under Dickov in 2015.

Apart from that, the two most blatant acts of referees cheating in my experience of watching Rovers were Jack Pickles (V Notts County) at Belle Vue in the 60s, and Mick Russell v Portsmouth at the Keepmoat in 2012.

I disagree BB.

Dickov's relegation was 2014   

[Bentley Bullet]

I still insist we were cheated out of the Championship by officials under Dickov in 2015.

Apart from that, the two most blatant acts of referees cheating in my experience of watching Rovers were Jack Pickles (V Notts County) at Belle Vue in the 60s, and Mick Russell v Portsmouth at the Keepmoat in 2012.

I disagree BB.

Dickov's relegation was 2014   

Wow, I didn't realise it was that long ago, Dutch! 

[DearneValleyRover]

I thought it was a penalty, couldn’t understand why Anderson needed to have a hold on him, from the view the ref got he had no choice but to give it, shame he didn’t see the offences on our players in the same light.

[Lesonthewest]

A referees view.

The ref cheated!!!!! the ref was very poor!!!!!,  The worst ref ever!!!just read back.

When you express your opinion on a refs poor performance just bear in mind its a very difficult job and you find that out even at junior level.

Have you had a go at reffing? have you done a refs course? I am sure it would have an affect on how you express your views

You pay your money and you are welcome to your opinion but at the end of the day you would have more credibility if you had had ago at it

Have you ever wondered why players dont take up reffing after they retire from the game!!!!!!

I reffed for many years at youth level and yes I made mistakes, it happens not because I was cheating.

I dont always support the ref but I will always express my views respectfully.

When I watch youth games now I offer my advice to young refs if I can help him/her after the game,

Referees do have a very difficult job, totally agree, I have reffed, albeit at junior level & that's why I don't normally criticise them, this one however deserves all the criticism coming to him, he was absolutely awful in my opinion. Cheat may have  been too strong a word, more incompetent.

[RobTheRover]

Tom was claiming he was being pulling into Stockley, and you can see that clearly on the highlights. Stockley has hold of the front of Tom's shirt and pulls him into him as he goes down. Tom has his hand on Stockley's shoulder and that seems to be enough for his legs to give way. Looks a very well engineered dive to me, and the ref fell for it.

[PDX_Rover]

Spot on Rob.