The end of transfer fees altogether?

[silent majority]

Remember the lawyer who successfully sued for the freedom of movement for footballers and instigated the Bosman ruling? Well he's in court again this Friday taking on FIFA. If he's successful it could spell the end of transfer fees as we know them. Story is here;

culture society, identity and belonging
Political football

A Luxembourg court may succeed where financial prudence has failed: stopping football clubs spending millions on transfers. On Friday, the Court of Justice of the European Union will hear the case of Lassana Diarra, 39, who once played for Chelsea and Real Madrid, before moving to Anzhi Makhachkala and Lokomotiv Moscow. A breakdown in relations at Lokomotiv led to the club suing Diarra for his €20 million transfer fee. Eventually Fifa, the sport’s governing body, banned Diarra from playing and ordered him to pay €10.5 million compensation. A Belgian club, Charleroi, offered to take Diarra but wanted guarantees it would not be liable for the compensation. Fifa refused and withheld Diarra’s transfer certificate. Diarra’s case against Fifa’s right to do this is being made by the same lawyer who successfully brought the case that swept away restrictions on players’ freedom of movement 30 years ago. If Diarra wins, it could spell the end of transfer fees.

[keith79]

Exciting times for players.

[roversdude]

Bizarre - did he receive the transfer fee himself

[Fal]

Weren't we in for him during the experiment season? His name rings a bell....infact as i was typing this post i did a quick google search

DONCASTER have launched a bid to sign Lassana Diarra on loan from Real Madrid.

Rovers boss Dean Saunders last night landed West Ham's French ace Freddie Piquionne, 32, on a loan deal.
Now Saunders hopes to snap up French ace Diarra, 26, who joined Real for £15m from Portsmouth.
Saunders is also on alert after Newcastle said Dan Gosling, 21, could be loaned out.

[silent majority]

There’s more here from the Guardian;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/03/lassana-diarra-case-explained-fifa-european-football

[Mike_F]

Whilst my initial reaction was "great news, transfer fees have become utterly ludicrous" I think this could be terrible news for clubs like ours. Whilst we're far from reliant on selling our best players to stay afloat, the monies received for the likes of Marquis and Whiteman must have played a significant part in shoring up our P&L.

[Dutch Uncle]

I am absolutely not a lawyer, and I think I am not the only one confused by this.

First I assume this is not talking about a so called 'signing-on' fee to the player himself which might be more understandable.

If a club is feeling it is not getting good value for a transfer fee does it have recourse anywhere? Well if the player knowingly hid an injury not picked up during the medical I guess there could be legal recourse against both  the medical staff concerned and also the player for hiding it, and maybe even the selling club.

Then there was the tragic case of Emilio Sala killed in a light aircraft crash before playing a game for Cardiff. Cardiff tried to avoid paying the fee which I felt was wrong since it was not the fault of the selling club (Nantes). I think there may well have been blame on the pilot or aircraft owner regarding maintenance (wasn't Willie Mackay involved?) so that would seem to be where any legal recourse might be taken.

But this sounds like a case where the player is refusing to play, in breach of his employment contract. I can imagine penalties for the player, but involving the transfer fee does seem a stretch to me.

Rather than transfer fees being abolished, would it not lead to tighter contracts protecting players from such action?

[silent majority]

Dutch, it appears that he got into a dispute with Locomotive about his salary and the club decided it was a breach of contract and therefore terminated his contract. It was the club whom then went looking for damages and FIFA found in the clubs favour.

The Guardian article explains it much better.

[Dutch Uncle]

Many thanks SM, will follow this carefully.

[One_Matty_Lucas]

Weren't we in for him during the experiment season? His name rings a bell....infact as i was typing this post i did a quick google search

DONCASTER have launched a bid to sign Lassana Diarra on loan from Real Madrid.

Rovers boss Dean Saunders last night landed West Ham's French ace Freddie Piquionne, 32, on a loan deal.
Now Saunders hopes to snap up French ace Diarra, 26, who joined Real for £15m from Portsmouth.
Saunders is also on alert after Newcastle said Dan Gosling, 21, could be loaned out.

I was convinced it was Mahamadou Diarra.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Such a minefield this. Heard rumblings before with agents wanting more of the cake (transfer fees) going to them and their clients, rather than the clubs. As usual they want all the benefits without the consequences. One of the things this could lead to is third party ownership with clubs basically 'leasing' players for fixed periods. Just as with car ownership, this might not suit every player and acquiring the use of a player could come in several ways.

As in employment, there's permanent, Fixed term, agency or consultancy contracts. Obvs in football there's no such thing as a permanent contract, just Fixed terms. Then of course workers who are self employed bear the consequences if they are unable to work through sickness etc.

With any Fixed term contract, if the contract is terminated early by either side, there has to be consequences or compensation of some sort.

Players and agents also need to be careful what they wish for, as there's only the top elite that have a small window opportunity while their 'value' is high. There's a much bigger percentage of footballers who like the security of being tied to an employer rather than the risk of not.

[Wokingviking]

It does sound like the end of clubs “owning” players, which was what the Bosman lawyer originally set out to do.

But for clubs to have squad stability, invest in reserves etc. there must still be contractual commitments between players and clubs?  And those will need to be dealt with if the player wants to break the contract and move.  So then the club “losing” the player can seek a remedy for their loss… a “fee” effectively, probably funded by the player’s new club?

Contract law must kick in and protect each party to the contract, but the commercial dynamics change for sure.

Have we got any contract lawyers on this board?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Fifa rules which govern the way some football transfers work break the European Union's laws, the highest European court has found.

A long-running legal battle between ex-Chelsea and Arsenal midfielder Lassana Diarra and Fifa has ended with the European Court of Justice finding in favour of the former player.

Diarra's legal team successfully argued that the world governing body's current system contravenes EU laws regarding freedom of movement of players and competition between clubs.

The court's judgement says that, by refusing to provide Diarra with an international transfer certificate for a proposed move to Belgian club Charleroi in 2015, Fifa demonstrated that its rules "impede the free movement of professional footballers wishing to develop their activity by going to work for a new club".

"The rules have as their object the restriction, and even prevention, of cross-border competition," the judgement reads.

The court has determined that Fifa should not be able to use the international transfer certificate system to prevent players moving and working where they choose.

Fifa's current transfer rules will have to be revised to remain valid in the EU.

[silent majority]

It's going to be a total overhaul of the contract system as we know it, I think.

My interpretation says that a player can break his contract when he wants to without suffering a penalty for doing so. And his new club won't be liable for any costs either.

Quote;

“The rules in question are such as to impede the free movement of professional footballers wishing to develop their activity by going to work for a new club,” said the Luxembourg-based court of justice of the European Union (CJEU).

[keyser_soze]

Weren't we in for him during the experiment season? His name rings a bell....infact as i was typing this post i did a quick google search

DONCASTER have launched a bid to sign Lassana Diarra on loan from Real Madrid.

Rovers boss Dean Saunders last night landed West Ham's French ace Freddie Piquionne, 32, on a loan deal.
Now Saunders hopes to snap up French ace Diarra, 26, who joined Real for £15m from Portsmouth.
Saunders is also on alert after Newcastle said Dan Gosling, 21, could be loaned out.

I'm pretty sure this ended up a case of mistaken identity wasn't it? Didn't Oor Wullie have another Diarra with a similar name on his books?

(I do remember prematurely transferring the Madrid one in to my Donny team on FIFA and he scored bucketloads)

[LincsRover]

It's going to be a total overhaul of the contract system as we know it, I think.

My interpretation says that a player can break his contract when he wants to without suffering a penalty for doing so. And his new club won't be liable for any costs either.

Quote;

“The rules in question are such as to impede the free movement of professional footballers wishing to develop their activity by going to work for a new club,” said the Luxembourg-based court of justice of the European Union (CJEU).

So a player can up and leave at any time another club with more money comes along and offers them higher wages? So not that different to now but the smaller club don’t get a fee? That only benefits the bigger clubs and their players as always.

[Campsall rover]

Sounds like a disaster for smaller clubs.

The agents just get richer. The clubs won’t know who is going to be playing for them from one month to the next.

Sounds as though the game is going into a chaotic situation.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It's going to be a total overhaul of the contract system as we know it, I think.

My interpretation says that a player can break his contract when he wants to without suffering a penalty for doing so. And his new club won't be liable for any costs either.

Quote;

“The rules in question are such as to impede the free movement of professional footballers wishing to develop their activity by going to work for a new club,” said the Luxembourg-based court of justice of the European Union (CJEU).

As I said, they want their cake etc. But it doesn't work like that in normal employment, so how they expect to be the exception I don't know.

I bet if the boot was on the other foot and clubs want to terminate a players contract early, the players would want compensating.

I can see the logic in transfer fees between clubs becoming defunct and transactions between players and clubs being the norm but that surely has to be compensation around wages?

Maybe clubs will have to insist on contractual notice periods and/or players buy themselves out of contracts?

Either way, there's got to be some protection for clubs too!

[Wokingviking]

It's going to be a total overhaul of the contract system as we know it, I think.

My interpretation says that a player can break his contract when he wants to without suffering a penalty for doing so. And his new club won't be liable for any costs either.

Quote;

“The rules in question are such as to impede the free movement of professional footballers wishing to develop their activity by going to work for a new club,” said the Luxembourg-based court of justice of the European Union (CJEU).

So effectively there’ll be no such thing as a contract as we know it.

The clubs would therefore need to build in incentives to stay like loyalty bonuses.  There’ll be some mechanism around it for the club to incentivise a player to stay, but it does look like the end of transfer fees.  You’ll end up with a similar situation to Investment Banks where they dangle future bonuses to try to stop staff going to other banks, but then as a counter to that, the poaching bank offers “golden hellos” - effectively signing-on fees I suppose.

[Scooter]

Diarra has won his case

[Avsuptem]

Piry the club owner who has just invested fortunes in the playing squad only to find that the players can join another club at will for free. That would mean x millions of pounds has just been wiped off the club's asset value by a court ruling. Surely this cannot happen !

[Glyn_Wigley]

Surely this won't affect UK contracts as our contract law is no longer subject to EU rulings?

[sedwardsdrfc]

Not sure I’m keen on this. So the big clubs who can pay big wages just take your players for nowt whenever they like?

[Thorney]

I am absolutely not a lawyer, and I think I am not the only one confused by this.

First I assume this is not talking about a so called 'signing-on' fee to the player himself which might be more understandable.

If a club is feeling it is not getting good value for a transfer fee does it have recourse anywhere? Well if the player knowingly hid an injury not picked up during the medical I guess there could be legal recourse against both  the medical staff concerned and also the player for hiding it, and maybe even the selling club.

Then there was the tragic case of Emilio Sala killed in a light aircraft crash before playing a game for Cardiff. Cardiff tried to avoid paying the fee which I felt was wrong since it was not the fault of the selling club (Nantes). I think there may well have been blame on the pilot or aircraft owner regarding maintenance (wasn't Willie Mackay involved?) so that would seem to be where any legal recourse might be taken.

But this sounds like a case where the player is refusing to play, in breach of his employment contract. I can imagine penalties for the player, but involving the transfer fee does seem a stretch to me.

Rather than transfer fees being abolished, would it not lead to tighter contracts protecting players from such action?

When Sala went back to nantes to say his goodbyes and collect some things before returning to caediff. Cardiff set him up with a commercial flight from paris. But willie and his son set him up with this little cessena plane so he could have a bit longer in nantes.

Listen to sala's last call to his mate whilst on that plane. Very chilling, cannot understand why he even got on it.
The pilot wasnt even licensed to carry passengers and im sure wasnt licensed to fly at night

[Glyn_Wigley]

Not sure I’m keen on this. So the big clubs who can pay big wages just take your players for nowt whenever they like?

But would they want to splash ridiculous amounts of cash on a prima donna who can walk out at a moment's notice?

[ForsolongaRover]

FIFA rules were obviously designed to achieve a code of conduct which avoided a wild-west situation that might otherwise see the wealthiest clubs grabbing the best players. This was achieved by ensuring that the wealthy party - the club that pirated a player from a lesser club - was responsible for settling up what was reasonably owed on the broken contract.

In the Diarra case there was a gap between him leaving Locomotiv and signing for Charleroi. His dispute with Locomotiv presumably remains unresolved with the debt endorsed by FIFA a personal one. As far as we know the European Court has not expunged this as it was the liability of Charleroi to pay it that it would not endorse.

This is a relatively unusual situation I would have thought, because most players who leave one club with no new club, do so because they have no suitor for their future services, so it is “mutual consent”.

The current way of operating is for the club wanting the services of another club’s player who is still under contract to that club is for the new club to agree a fee which effectively compensates his existing employer/club for the loss of his services. Hence the propensity for very long contracts for high-value players.

Freedom of movement for employees seems an EU Law fundamental, but I’m not sure that this means any employee can walk out on an Employment Contract on a whim.

As I say “I’m not sure”, but I put forward the above proposition to extend the debate.

[BobG]

Dies the ruling, at keast as described here, only apply to international transfers? It kind of reads like that.

BobG