£17m To Run A Small Town League One Club !!

[tyke1962]

I thought this might be of interest to Rovers fans .

Personally I'm speechless .


https://x.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1849145031803765131

[Campsall rover]

I thought this might be of interest to Rovers fans .

Personally I'm speechless .


https://x.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1849145031803765131

Crazy. The game has gone mad. £17.000.000 at Barnsley. Thats ludicrous.

[BobG]

I wonder what a top league 2 budget has to be then...?!

BobG

[Michael Shaw]

Many thanks, Tyke.  An amazing bit of video. A credit to Barnsley for being so open and honest about the company's finances. I don't see Doncaster ever doing that or the owner putting that much money in. It's always smoke and mirrors and distractions at Doncaster.

In summary:

Outgoings 17m to run the entire club
.....11m on the academy, club and players wages
.....4m lights, admin, maintenance
.....2m stewards and running match days
Incomings:
.....3m from Sky, Ifollow, etc
.....1.7m commercial sponsorship
.....3.5m tickets and match days

8.2m shortfall made up by player trading (minimal) and the owners.

Wow..

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Many thanks, Tyke.  An amazing bit of video. A credit to Barnsley for being so open and honest about the company's finances. I don't see Doncaster ever doing that or the owner putting that much money in. It's always smoke and mirrors and distractions at Doncaster.

In summary:

Outgoings 17m to run the entire club
.....11m on the academy, club and players wages
.....4m lights, admin, maintenance
.....2m stewards and running match days
Incomings:
.....3m from Sky, Ifollow, etc
.....1.7m commercial sponsorship
.....3.5m tickets and match days

8.2m shortfall made up by player trading (minimal) and the owners.

Wow..

If you ask the right questions when you get the opportunity, then your more likely to get the answers.

Btw. How is the Barnsley owner (or owners) funding that shortfall? Out of their own pockets, loans? How?

How much do you think TB should be putting in?

[Chris Black come back]

Their last full set of accounts reflecting season 2022/23 in League One (play offs, not promoted) reported a total wage bill of £9.3m that was fully covered by gross turnover.

[Reg of the Rovers]

It's not really a dig at our Board and their investment decisions, more a critique of the state of the game if a well-run, well-supported, sustainably-led, selling club like Barnsley operates at -£8m a year what chance is there for anyone else?

I know it's a debate we've had for a long time on here, but if the only way to run a club is through benevolent ownership or on a shoe-string player budget then there will continue to be clubs dropping out of business, and our own benevolent leadership is a temporary arrangement for which the clock is ticking.

[BobG]

Sadly, Reg, you may well have foretold our future. Once again untrammelled market forces, led by greed, have undermined the foundatiobs of a societal good, and are now leading it to destruction.

BobG

[Michael Shaw]

DBR, you must be having a bad day to be so stroppy and nasty.

I just watched the video like everyone else and I am impressed with the openness by their board.
What does the video say about funding the shortfall? You can watch it same as anyone else and come to your own conclusions. And who said anything about how much TB should put in other than you? So answer your own question, how much do you think he should put in?

It’s people like you that spoil this forum with your stroppy, aggressive attitude. It’s totally unnecessary.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

DBR, you must be having a bad day to be so stroppy and nasty.

I just watched the video like everyone else and I am impressed with the openness by their board.
What does the video say about funding the shortfall? You can watch it same as anyone else and come to your own conclusions. And who said anything about how much TB should put in other than you? So answer your own question, how much do you think he should put in?

It’s people like you that spoil this forum with your stroppy, aggressive attitude. It’s totally unnecessary.

Where was the stroppy and nasty?

You said "I don't see Doncaster ever doing that or the owner putting that much money in. It's always smoke and mirrors and distractions at Doncaster"

That's why I put the questions back to you.

[Batleyred]

DBR, you must be having a bad day to be so stroppy and nasty.

I just watched the video like everyone else and I am impressed with the openness by their board.
What does the video say about funding the shortfall? You can watch it same as anyone else and come to your own conclusions. And who said anything about how much TB should put in other than you? So answer your own question, how much do you think he should put in?

It’s people like you that spoil this forum with your stroppy, aggressive attitude. It’s totally unnecessary.

I see DBR as one of the level headed posters on here, yet you, have a reputation of moaning and belittling the board at any sniff of a chance.

Work that one out 

[Bentley Bullet]

Talking about being level-headed, do you see Rovers ever putting that much money in?

[DearneValleyRover]

Many thanks, Tyke.  An amazing bit of video. A credit to Barnsley for being so open and honest about the company's finances. I don't see Doncaster ever doing that or the owner putting that much money in. It's always smoke and mirrors and distractions at Doncaster.

In summary:

Outgoings 17m to run the entire club
.....11m on the academy, club and players wages
.....4m lights, admin, maintenance
.....2m stewards and running match days
Incomings:
.....3m from Sky, Ifollow, etc
.....1.7m commercial sponsorship
.....3.5m tickets and match days

8.2m shortfall made up by player trading (minimal) and the owners.

Wow..

You can’t help but have a dig at our ownership can you

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Talking about being level-headed, do you see Rovers ever putting that much money in?

That's a good question. If we could significantly increase our turnover, through building success, increasing attendances, commercial, TV money, prize money, player trading etc, etc, I think it could happen. It comes down to level of risk I guess.

Will that happen tomorrow, next season, the season after. Probably not.

Another question is, where there's no specific answer, is how much should it take?

[BobG]

The trouble with unlimited, or nigh on unlimited financial support, for anything or anybody, is that the recipient becomes utterly dependent. Remove that support and disaster strikes. We could go down that road of course, but remember, nothing, nothing, lasts forever. Encouraging and supporting a move toward financial independence is a far more reliable long term choice...
Bank loans, or buying stuff on tick are great examples. Money,  and things, come rolling in.  But the bill hasn't been paid... Lose your job, interest rates go up, wife leaves you, taking away a chunk of income yet leaving you with lawyer fees, commitments to give money to her and to child support. So then what do you do...?
BobG

[tyke1962]

I think as Bob has alluded to , the game today is now totally out of control .

The game isn't about who can build a team the best with more of a level playing field but more whose owners are prepared to prop up or bankroll huge loss making businesses .

I may well be a little old skool but there's absolutely no way a league one club should ever cost £17m per year to run and be losing £600k a month in the process .

The question is how the hell did it get to this ? because I'm pretty certain whatever wealth our owners accumulated and the businesses they created weren't run like this .

Why is football the exception to the rule ? , why does financial common sense not prevail ?

How the hell does someone as savvy as Simon Jordan be lucky to walk away from Crystal Palace still wearing his trousers ? .

When people say football is a business they couldn't be more wrong , there isn't a business outside of football that would be run this way .

The question on my mind is just how long are our owners prepared to subsidise the club to the tune of £8m every year ?

Who in their right mind would buy this financial basket case as it stands today ?

One day they may well be nobody and that day may not be too far away either .

[Padge_DRFC]

Many thanks, Tyke.  An amazing bit of video. A credit to Barnsley for being so open and honest about the company's finances. I don't see Doncaster ever doing that or the owner putting that much money in. It's always smoke and mirrors and distractions at Doncaster.

In summary:

Outgoings 17m to run the entire club
.....11m on the academy, club and players wages
.....4m lights, admin, maintenance
.....2m stewards and running match days
Incomings:
.....3m from Sky, Ifollow, etc
.....1.7m commercial sponsorship
.....3.5m tickets and match days

8.2m shortfall made up by player trading (minimal) and the owners.

Wow..

No chance Barnsley only make 3.5 million on tickets. They get double the ST holders we do at more expensive prices for starters. Then an average gate double ours.

[Avsuptem]

There might be a multitude of reasons why people own football clubs and sustain apparent losses not all of which are entirely altruistic. Abromavitch being a case in point. Presumably the eloquent besuited gentleman sitting on the right in the video clip is one of Barnsley FC's paid executive employees who may be on a big fat annual wedge which forms a significant % of the club's opex budget. Also presumably he has the opportunity to work for free but, like most of us would, choses not to thereby constituting a significant element of the revenue shortfall. But he's alright Jack, at least for now. All I am saying is that there are usually a lot of things hidden behind the corporate veil and things are not necessarily exactly as they are painted to be.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Many thanks, Tyke.  An amazing bit of video. A credit to Barnsley for being so open and honest about the company's finances. I don't see Doncaster ever doing that or the owner putting that much money in. It's always smoke and mirrors and distractions at Doncaster.

In summary:

Outgoings 17m to run the entire club
.....11m on the academy, club and players wages
.....4m lights, admin, maintenance
.....2m stewards and running match days
Incomings:
.....3m from Sky, Ifollow, etc
.....1.7m commercial sponsorship
.....3.5m tickets and match days

8.2m shortfall made up by player trading (minimal) and the owners.

Wow..

No chance Barnsley only make 3.5 million on tickets. They get double the ST holders we do at more expensive prices for starters. Then an average gate double ours.

I looked into that a bit. Based on their average home attendance of around 11000, it works out as an average income of £13 per fan per match. Considering concessions, no reason to think this is way out.

[Chris Black come back]

This is correct. Their accounts register a gross matchday income of just over £3.4m.

[normal rules]

It’s been going on for years.
Players wages at the very centre of the rot.
And the parasitic agents behind it all.
Sums of money utterly disproportionate to what they do

[graingrover]

The Premiership is the main problem with unfettered greed , prima donna players and ridiculous salaries .

[Michael Shaw]

That video implies that the owner puts in the £8.2m shortfall in one year.

When you all have a pop at me, please tell me which year did TB put in  £8.2m and when did the Doncaster board give us a similar breakdown of the club’s finances.

You all just read in what you want from what I say and ignore the vast majority which is the extortionate cost of running a club these days.

[Michael Shaw]

Yes, I am Rovers follower and nothing will ever change that regardless of some posters on this site.

And yes,  I have a problem with an owner who wants absolute control, won’t allow any other investor to share ownership and bring in additional investment, and decides for himself what he wants to put in and that leaves us stuck in league two.

Wrexham have proved what can be achieved with enough money throw in. Look where they are now! That level of success can never happen at Doncaster while TB will not share ownership and that is something he has clearly stated.

There  must  be some that can see my point of view but don’t speak up.

[tyke1962]

That video implies that the owner puts in the £8.2m shortfall in one year.

When you all have a pop at me, please tell me which year did TB put in  £8.2m and when did the Doncaster board give us a similar breakdown of the club’s finances.

You all just read in what you want from what I say and ignore the vast majority which is the extortionate cost of running a club these days.

With all due respect Michael wouldn't you be thankful that TB didn't have to put £8.2m in to Rovers every year just to sustain league two football ?

I don't see how our owners having to put that amount of money in to the club is a badge of honour .

Just to pick up on another matter regarding their honesty and clarity , they are massively under the pump and have been for quite a while from the fan base .

Perhaps if they hadn't made so many poor decisions they wouldn't have had to put so much money in to the club instead of using it as a defence mechanism to wade off criticism .

When this club was sold to them in 2017 we were in the championship , debt free with £5m in the bank plus we owned 50% of the stadium and surrounding land .

Today we are in league one for the third consecutive season and in my opinion we will still be in league one next season too .

We are losing £600k a month with a very average team on the grass and we now don't even own our own stadium 100% or the surrounding land .

Whilst I agree with many posters that football is broken and possibly heading for disaster it doesn't alter the fact that the club should still be in a better financial position , probably not profitable or even breaking even but considerably better than the current position .

As for the Wrexham's of this world well the real Wrexham is the one who were stuck in the National League for a decade and a half and not the one you see today .

The real Barnsley is a club who need £10m to operate in league one and making better decisions so they are competing as well as they possibly can with the funding they create .

That's the thing to be aspiring to because everything else including Wrexham is just fantasy and fantasy meets reality given time .

[jmt23]

And to think some thought ill of TB for saying we couldn’t compete financially at the top of league 1! 

[BobG]

And if TB did invest £8M a year... How long is he going to live for? What happens when dies? Who is going to step into continue the supply of ready cash? And, Michael, take a few minutes to think through exactly what would happen to DRFC when that cash supply ceases. Armageddon given the value of player contracts you envisage and absence of money with which to pay them.

BobG

[RoversInSpain]

That video implies that the owner puts in the £8.2m shortfall in one year.

When you all have a pop at me, please tell me which year did TB put in  £8.2m and when did the Doncaster board give us a similar breakdown of the club’s finances.

You all just read in what you want from what I say and ignore the vast majority which is the extortionate cost of running a club these days.

Though not a full breakdown it was pretty common knowledge that the owners funded £2m per year to keep us going.
They were also clear that they wanted a self sustainable club. Which I understand was actually achieved, sadly the football side spiralled as we’d bought too cheap.
In steps TB and he has halted 3 years of decline, however I now wonder how much he is having to put in again?
Tyke asks ‘How did it get to this?’ . I thought Financial Fair Play rules stopped this from happening whereby a club can only spend so much verses their income… so I don’t get what’s happening here. Unless the £8m is paid in such a way it’s classed as income. Totally confused as to what FFP is all about?

However, for clubs like ours, that is a scary video!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It's always ambition v risk and who ultimately is taking the risks, and how far are we prepared to go to support those risks.

There are reasons why the Holywood duo selected Wrexham, same as the reasons the new owners of Carlisle, Gillingham and a number of other clubs were selected and that's the potential in their relative catchment areas, with some knowledge of historical trends.

Rather than go on a long explanation, just listen to the interview between JR and 18 Dapper. To take risks, they (owners) need us as fans to go with them. There's another interview with JR, which I can't find, when he said, if we want to sustain success, you're going to have to pay for it. In other words, buy the season tickets!!!

(First 7 mins he talks about favourite players)

https://youtu.be/Z1QFaCzKNQ0?si=J8JcIaTDlSkfbde-

Yes, sometimes it's a catch22 but it comes down to what our club means to us individually, and whether we feel we're getting value for money.

'Broken' football is another debate with the disparity of income down the Pyramid.

[Drover]

Their last full set of accounts reflecting season 2022/23 in League One (play offs, not promoted) reported a total wage bill of £9.3m that was fully covered by gross turnover.

So it's not £17 million EVERY year like he said in video.