Justin Welby.

[Usher wide.]

Resigned yesterday as Archbishop of Canterbury but only after intense media pressure & senior bishops calling for him to do so.

This man knew about John Smyth’s (Lord Smyth) abuse of children in his role in the church back in 2013.

Lord Smyth was ‘shipped off’ to South Africa where he continued his church ministry & of course his abuse of children & young men.

A BBC documentary brought this creatures abuse to light in a TV documentary in 2017. Smyth died in 2018 before he could face justice in the courts. He’d gone on to abuse more than 150 young boys during his time in the church.

He could have been stopped if Welby & others had brought their suspicions (indeed knowledge) of Smyth’s abuse back in 2013 thus saving gawd knows how many other children’s lives to be ruined.

Shame on Welby, shame on the church.

And there’s me thinking it was Irish Catholic priests you had to be ‘suspicious’ of.

There’s far too many ‘young male sex offenders’ joining religious institutions as their path to to get close to young, vulnerable children knowing their predilections are ‘safely hidden under the cloth of the church’.

And still it goes on. Men of power in uniform. Frightening.

[Bentley Bullet]

Reminiscent of Jimmy Savile's victims who were 'routinely ignored' by police and other people in power.

[welloffside]

John Smyth.     I looked his entry on Wikipedia, to see what all the fuss was about.

                                  This man was a Christian ?

[Usher wide.]

John Smyth.     I looked his entry on Wikipedia, to see what all the fuss was about.

                                  This man was a Christian ?

I looked up the word ‘fuss’ in the dictionary & guess what.

[SydneyRover]

''Rocky Leanders, then 15, was beaten with wooden paddle by Smyth at camp where boys were made to swim naked''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/16/church-of-england-directly-responsible-for-john-smyth-abuse-in-zimbabwe-victim-says

Organised religion has so much to answer for.

[BobG]

It always has had Sydney....


A HUGE force of reaction for millenia.

A HUGE thieving organisation for millenia.

 A HUGE force of exploitation and destruction for millenia.

And finally a HUGE cause of war - for millenia.

If anybody doubts any of these statements, just consider the following few examples:

- Galileo and Martin Luther
- The Vatican museum and the Church of England landholdings
- The exploitation and death of untold millions of Central and South Americans
- The Crusades, the Armada

There are almost infinitely more examples one could place under each sub heading


BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob

To be fair, the Catholic Church did apologise for putting Galileo under house arrest for life in 1633, for daring to support the heliocentric model.

The apology came in 1979...

And then the recent Pope Benedict said that they should never have apologised because the imprisonment was "rational and just".

Speaking as a recovering Catholic, I'm convinced that institution has committed more crimes against humanity than any other in history.

[BobG]

I worked in central Rome for a while once Billy. A mate and I took took an afternoon off once. We went to the Vatican Museum.  It was, and I think still will be, an entirely schizophrenic experience.

On one hand it is simply stunning. 'Oh look! There's a da Vinci. Oh! There's another!' Then there's  all the Michaelangelo's. The gold dating back 2 millenia. The building. And don't even start to think about the chap sitting on a cloud with his legs dangling in open space from the ceiling above the entrance door to the Sistine Chapel. The place is so stuffed full of artistry and beauty that it is impossible to describe. It really is absolutely stunning.

And then you stop. You ask yourself 'Where did all this come from?' The answer is obvious: the sweat, the labour and the struggles of working men over two thousand years. And then you look at it all and you think, if the Catholic Church sold it all over the course of a century, say, it could wipe out third world debt....

It's not just the Catholic church though. The Church of England is a large landowner (it used to be the largest in Britain) and sits on over £10BN of investments. Islam, in its many forms, is massively wealthy though details are not very visible. The Catholic Church in Australia for God's sake had an annual income of Aus 21BN in 2018. The Mormons are worth £265BN!

All religion sucks money out of those who believe in one of the many versions of religious propaganda. And then one propaganda version goes to war to kill those who support another version that doesn't favour its particular value system. It's still doing it today...

I've thought for a long time now that despite the beauty and the grandeur created by Religion, it is, and always has been, one of the worlds supremely evil forces.

And this brief resume, of course, hasn't even mentioned the Inquisition, torture, corruption, sexual vices, the abuse of power and conspicuous consumption. Or the Jesuits...

BobG
 

[scawsby steve]

Funny thing that none of the above mentions the evils of Stalin, Chairman Mao, or Pol Pot.

I wonder why?

[BobG]

Because the subject is religion. Fool.

BobG

[scawsby steve]

Because the subject is religion. Fool.

BobG

For a start, don't call me a fool.

The reason I mentioned those was because they butchered millions in the name of atheist totalitarianism. As usual, you're trying to one-side the subject by failing to give balance.

Yes, religious leaders have done evil things throughout history, but so have secular leaders

How would North Korea suit you?

[BobG]

When the subject is totalitarian states, I might comment. But for you to introduce utter irrelevancies seeking to score a cheap political point into a discussion focused on religion is nothing short of purblind stupidity.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Because the subject is religion. Fool.

BobG

For a start, don't call me a fool.

The reason I mentioned those was because they butchered millions in the name of atheist totalitarianism. As usual, you're trying to one-side the subject by failing to give balance.

Yes, religious leaders have done evil things throughout history, but so have secular leaders

How would North Korea suit you?

The point is, SS, those men, evil as they were, were passing psychopaths.

The Catholic Church has kept people under control, misinformed, and threatened by eternal Hell if they step out of line for 2000 years as a constant policy. They were a key part of encouraging and justifying the European genocides in the Americas, the slave trade and the colonisation of Africa. They are directly responsible for the overpopulation crisis in many parts of the world, Africa particularly, by insisting that contraception is a sin. For no reason other than boosting their own numbers, totally ignoring the bestial poverty this condemns tens of millions to.

There's simply no comparison.

[BobG]

I'd add over population and poverty in South America too Billy. All Catholic, and all fecund....

BobG

[Bentley Bullet]

 A few posts between the two most self-important posters on this site  insinuating that religion is the root of all evil are bound to provoke a response by someone declaring there is evil in atheism also.

Well said Scawsby Steve.

[BobG]

Oh BB... You sure don't know how to make friends and influence people...

I am quite prepared to be told, and to accept, that I am talking out of my arse - if  you put forwards a sensible, rational and reasoned counter proposition. But that is something you seem incapable of doing. Snide comments, fatuous irrelevancies and silly jokes seem to be your metier. If you do engage in a reasoned debate, honestly I would really love it. How the hell else does anyone learn except by having his or her views challenged with evidence and logic proving one needs to change one's view?

Do that, and we will both learn, benefit and improve our understanding. And we might even get on a whole lot better!

BobG
.

[scawsby steve]

Oh BB... You sure don't know how to make friends and influence people...

I am quite prepared to be told, and to accept, that I am talking out of my arse - if  you put forwards a sensible, rational and reasoned counter proposition. But that is something you seem incapable of doing. Snide comments, fatuous irrelevancies and silly jokes seem to be your metier. If you do engage in a reasoned debate, honestly I would really love it. How the hell else does anyone learn except by having his or her views challenged with evidence and logic proving one needs to change one's view?

Do that, and we will both learn, benefit and improve our understanding. And we might even get on a whole lot better!

BobG
.

Says the man who used the words "fool" and "purblind stupidity" because it was pointed out to him that there have been examples of evil atheist leaders.

As regards BB making friends, I can assure you that he and I have lots of friends at the Eco, many from this forum; the reason being that we don't sneer, rant, and name-call at others because of their opinions.

However, we're all aware of the ones that do, and believe me, it gets discussed a lot.

[bobbymax]

To quote Stephen Fry, 'Religion, shit it!'

[Bentley Bullet]

BobG.
Stop expressing your typical one-sided opinions with snide remarks aimed at provoking people on the receiving side of your attacks and we might get on better.

[SydneyRover]

A few posts between the two most self-important posters on this site  insinuating that religion is the root of all evil are bound to provoke a response by someone declaring there is evil in atheism also.

Well said Scawsby Steve.

Trying to prove a negative appears to be your life's ambition bullet.

[Bentley Bullet]

I'm all for an easy life, Skippy.

Proving negatives to BST and his disciple's rantings is much easier than finding positives.

[i_ateallthepies]

Oh BB... You sure don't know how to make friends and influence people...

I am quite prepared to be told, and to accept, that I am talking out of my arse - if  you put forwards a sensible, rational and reasoned counter proposition. But that is something you seem incapable of doing. Snide comments, fatuous irrelevancies and silly jokes seem to be your metier. If you do engage in a reasoned debate, honestly I would really love it. How the hell else does anyone learn except by having his or her views challenged with evidence and logic proving one needs to change one's view?

Do that, and we will both learn, benefit and improve our understanding. And we might even get on a whole lot better!

BobG
.

Says the man who used the words "fool" and "purblind stupidity" because it was pointed out to him that there have been examples of evil atheist leaders.

As regards BB making friends, I can assure you that he and I have lots of friends at the Eco, many from this forum; the reason being that we don't sneer, rant, and name-call at others because of their opinions.

However, we're all aware of the ones that do, and believe me, it gets discussed a lot.

So you don't actually read anything BB writes on here then, SS?

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't sneer, rant, and name-call others because of their opinions.

I do it because of their complete lack of respect when giving them.

[i_ateallthepies]

scawsby steve simply said you don't do it.  Thanks for confirming he was fibbing.

[Bentley Bullet]

Na, I confirmed exactly what Scawsby Steve said.