What did the Referee decide ?

[Donnywolf]

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/30998/13353152/should-this-have-been-a-red-tommy-simkin-clatters-into-newports-josh-martin


A) Send the Keeper off with a straight Red


B) Award Keeper a very lenient Yellow Card


C) Immediately stop play for a possible head injury and / or a potential serious injury


D) Or he did none of those and simply waved Play on


OK the observant people will have seen what he did BUT just what WAS he thinking


Should never Ref another game

[Donnywolf]

I'm thinking he played on lol

[roversontheup]

Immediate reaction when I saw it was straight red. Couldn't believe he didn't even give a foul or stop play!!

[RobTheRover]

Exactly the same as the Mateta incident.

[Northants Nomad]

Unbelievable referee...but sadly the quality we have seen week after week in League Two. That's an extreme example, but we've seen some awful displays from the articles with the whistles. That referee at the Newport/Walsall game must have had a proper mare yesterday, with that decision and then giving the goal where the lad punched it into the net?

[jmt23]

Good god, what was both the keeper and ref thinking.

He is running with the full view of the game and knows exactly what he’s done. That has to be a ban (for both) provided as soon as the fa see it surely.

[roversdude]

Good job the Lino was watching in that game with the blatant handball at the end

[drfchound]

Good job the Lino was watching in that game with the blatant handball at the end

When I watched the highlights of that incident I thought it was strange that the Newport player had to go to the ref and ask him to speak to the linesman as he (the Newport player) indicated the handball.
If the ref and linesman are “wired up to each other” how come nothing appeared to have been said because it seemed like an age before the ref went over to speak with his colleague.
And of course the player who punched the ball into the goal should have been booked.

[RoversDave]

Good job the Lino was watching in that game with the blatant handball at the end

When I watched the highlights of that incident I thought it was strange that the Newport player had to go to the ref and ask him to speak to the linesman as he (the Newport player) indicated the handball.
If the ref and linesman are “wired up to each other” how come nothing appeared to have been said because it seemed like an age before the ref went over to speak with his colleague.
And of course the player who punched the ball into the goal should have been booked.

I think he was giving the 4th official time to watch video evidence to disallow it.

[ForsolongaRover]

I raised this on our Newport v Walsall match thread and the way it was dealt with by Sky seemed unbalanced. I think they only showed one replay and the commentator did not make what I would class as balanced comments on the incident. There was ample opportunity to have a lengthy discussion and analysis during the time that Martin lay badly injured. There was just one replay and the commentator said that it was a 50-50 ball! Whether it was, 50-50 or not is questionable, but even if it was, it does not entitle the Newport Goalkeeper to appear to launch himself seemingly knees first and almost head-high at the Newport player. A 3-match ban would be lenient.

There was most definite bias towards Walsall and even the initial comment on the the handball was something like “there was a hand there” as though there was doubt as to whether he handed it into the net - which he did. The commentator was possibly under the influence of Lee Carsley who sympathies as a Brummagen were obvious and unprofessional.

[Pancho Regan]

Extraordinary that the ref didn't give an immediate red card for that reckless challenge by the 'keeper.
To not even stop play and award a free kick was scandalous.

I hadn't realised until now that that was 'our' Josh Martin who got clobbered.

And as said above, it's a good job the linesman took the initiative to signal the handball by the Walsall player. You don't see that very often from a lino these days.

[Red wizard]

Picture this, it's 0-0 on Saturday and Street and the keeper are both going for the ball and Street stops running to not clatter the keeper. They would be a meltdown on here saying he bottled it imo. 2 brave players trying to win a game playing a CONTACT sport.My question is why wasn't the game stopped to see if the players was ok.

[Barmby Rover]

Straight red for the keeper, quite deliberate to take the player out.

[Donnywolf]

I'm not sure the Lino signalled for anything and if he didn't,  why NOT ?

Perhaps he had doubts , or darent once the Walsall players went into overdrive

All I saw was Newport Player protesting to the Ref claiming hand ball at which point the Ref consulted Lino and together they decided Number 4 had handled into the net

If anyone saw Sky coverage please let me know  what the timeline was

Similarly when the Ref  amazingly let play on when Martin was wiped  out did the Lino ( sorry Referees assistant ) make any signal at all

If not he can hardly be called an assistant can he

I hear on here from time to time some Refs tell Linos to flag ONLY for throw ins , goal kicks , corners and off sides. If they do.that the Refs are doing nobody any favours

I still think Purkiss should be stood down till he explains himself. As a minimum he had to stop play just in case there was a head injury

[drfchound]

I'm not sure the Lino signalled for anything and if he didn't,  why NOT ?

Perhaps he had doubts , or darent once the Walsall players went into overdrive

All I saw was Newport Player protesting to the Ref claiming hand ball at which point the Ref consulted Lino and together they decided Number 4 had handled into the net

If anyone saw Sky coverage please let me know  what the timeline was

Similarly when the Ref  amazingly let play on when Martin was wiped  out did the Lino ( sorry Referees assistant ) make any signal at all

If not he can hardly be called an assistant can he

I hear on here from time to time some Refs tell Linos to flag ONLY for throw ins , goal kicks , corners and off sides. If they do.that the Refs are doing nobody any favours

I still think Purkiss should be stood down till he explains himself. As a minimum he had to stop play just in case there was a head injury

As the play continues after the assault on Martin the Walsall keeper does signal to Purkiss that Martin might be badly injured.
A very poor decision by Purkiss to allow play to continue.

[NickDRFC]

Straight red for the keeper, quite deliberate to take the player out.

I don’t think it was deliberate. If you look at the replay towards the end from behind the goal he seems to just be watching the ball and is taken off guard by Martin nipping in. He also immediately waves to the referee/physio as it’s clear that he’s hurt him. Still reckless though and a red card for me. Terrible refereeing to just wave play on.

[jmt23]

He had the full view of the pitch and definitely knew what he was doing, it was deliberate, high and extremely dangerous.

If he didn’t see the threat of Martin why launch his foot so high to attempt to kick the ball, he would’ve taken his time and allowed the ball to drop.

[ForsolongaRover]

I'm not sure the Lino signalled for anything and if he didn't,  why NOT ?

Perhaps he had doubts , or darent once the Walsall players went into overdrive

All I saw was Newport Player protesting to the Ref claiming hand ball at which point the Ref consulted Lino and together they decided Number 4 had handled into the net

If anyone saw Sky coverage please let me know  what the timeline was

Similarly when the Ref  amazingly let play on when Martin was wiped  out did the Lino ( sorry Referees assistant ) make any signal at all

If not he can hardly be called an assistant can he

I hear on here from time to time some Refs tell Linos to flag ONLY for throw ins , goal kicks , corners and off sides. If they do.that the Refs are doing nobody any favours

I still think Purkiss should be stood down till he explains himself. As a minimum he had to stop play just in case there was a head injury

Play had not restarted as Walsall were celebrating at length, but the referee could not have seen it and it was the wrong side for the main TV camera to have a proper view.

[GazLaz]

I'm not sure the Lino signalled for anything and if he didn't,  why NOT ?

Perhaps he had doubts , or darent once the Walsall players went into overdrive

All I saw was Newport Player protesting to the Ref claiming hand ball at which point the Ref consulted Lino and together they decided Number 4 had handled into the net

If anyone saw Sky coverage please let me know  what the timeline was

Similarly when the Ref  amazingly let play on when Martin was wiped  out did the Lino ( sorry Referees assistant ) make any signal at all

If not he can hardly be called an assistant can he

I hear on here from time to time some Refs tell Linos to flag ONLY for throw ins , goal kicks , corners and off sides. If they do.that the Refs are doing nobody any favours

I still think Purkiss should be stood down till he explains himself. As a minimum he had to stop play just in case there was a head injury

The ref and the Lino handled things perfectly for the disallowed goal in a real high pressure moment.

Wolfie, did you find your Mrs in bed with a referee at some point?

[Donnywolf]

Hi GazLaz     ...... No , to you final point , I just dislike some of the Referees who seem to be incompetent and in a results driven business they need to be as competent as possible given they get just one look at everything in every game

Some are so poor I wonder why they bother , and the Walsall incident just fired me up more than normal.

It then led me to think on the disallowed goal , what part if any the Lino played. The Ref gave the goal , but did the Lino flag at any point ?

I haven't seen anywhere or via any video that he did , but the Newport player protested to the Ref and gesturing for Hand Ball offence so did he see the Lino flag ?

If the Lino did Flag WHY did he not have the courage as with Offsides to just stand there with it raised and again , if he didn't Flag at any point , how the hell did they come up with a scenario where they disallowed the goal when initially the Ref had awarded it , and the Lino had not flagged for any offence

They DID get the decision spot on , it was quite blatantly scooped into the net ( a la Thiery Henry ) although the Express and Star could only manage to say Walsalls winning goal was ruled out for an alleged handling offense

As for the other part of my question , I just cannot see how a Referee can ( even given his one look ) NOT take action after the flattening of Josh Martin

The recent Palace incident should have immediately brought action from the Ref to ensure the players safety and as a minimum play should have been stopped. Good grief , if the ball touches the Ref when in play , play stops . Why not stop play for a potential head injury. Even if it's just a potential head injury

I'm still totally horrified that he ran away , and did nothing except a glance over his shoulder as he crossed half way and I'm guessing someone he had comms with must have told him to stop play.

Perhaps the EFL will asked for his account , and not for the first time I would love to see the Assessors Report

[Mike_F]

The one with the keeper was a dangerous challenge and as such it's completely irrelevant whether or not he got the ball. Dangerous challenge = red card.

Even if there's no contact with the player it's the danger element that counts.

[Donnywolf]

Agree Mike . What might Ed the Duck make of that , or whoever Red Carded Tommy Rowe in front of Dug outside that time ?

Walsall keeper Straight Red , medics on immediately

As long as Ref remembers he has 2 things to do , unlike the one at Chorley after the tackle on Herbie

[GazLaz]

Hi GazLaz     ...... No , to you final point , I just dislike some of the Referees who seem to be incompetent and in a results driven business they need to be as competent as possible given they get just one look at everything in every game

Some are so poor I wonder why they bother , and the Walsall incident just fired me up more than normal.

It then led me to think on the disallowed goal , what part if any the Lino played. The Ref gave the goal , but did the Lino flag at any point ?

I haven't seen anywhere or via any video that he did , but the Newport player protested to the Ref and gesturing for Hand Ball offence so did he see the Lino flag ?

If the Lino did Flag WHY did he not have the courage as with Offsides to just stand there with it raised and again , if he didn't Flag at any point , how the hell did they come up with a scenario where they disallowed the goal when initially the Ref had awarded it , and the Lino had not flagged for any offence

They DID get the decision spot on , it was quite blatantly scooped into the net ( a la Thiery Henry ) although the Express and Star could only manage to say Walsalls winning goal was ruled out for an alleged handling offense

As for the other part of my question , I just cannot see how a Referee can ( even given his one look ) NOT take action after the flattening of Josh Martin

The recent Palace incident should have immediately brought action from the Ref to ensure the players safety and as a minimum play should have been stopped. Good grief , if the ball touches the Ref when in play , play stops . Why not stop play for a potential head injury. Even if it's just a potential head injury

I'm still totally horrified that he ran away , and did nothing except a glance over his shoulder as he crossed half way and I'm guessing someone he had comms with must have told him to stop play.

Perhaps the EFL will asked for his account , and not for the first time I would love to see the Assessors Report

Haha I’m only joking with you! Pretty sure there are less ref’s at grass roots level which means the pool of “good” ones at the top gets smaller I suppose. The games getting faster at all levels thus harder to officiate as well.

[Donnywolf]

Agree again ... And I knew you were having a 'laff

I have long advocated a Ref in each half so the 40 odd year olds could keep up with the ever younger players that are trying to keep up with , rather than being behind play and making decisions from metaphorical "miles" away

Some would say there IS a Ref in each half with the Referees Assistant which if they were as competent as we hope they are would make 2 Refs in each half BUT if the real Ref "subdues" the Lino as is alleged letting them do balls out of play and Offsides only then they exacerbate the problem

And of course in addition to your very valid point , the Players themselves make the Refs job even more difficult by their actions.

We could list hundreds but I will add just 3 from the minor offence of A) appealing for Throw ins they KNOW they are not entitled to , B) feigning an injury such as being elbowed when the opposition player only pulled their shirt to C) tripping themselves up hoping for a Penalty

They could make the Refs job a bit easier and arguably the " entertainment " we are paying to watch immediately better.

BUT they won't

[Dutch Uncle]

IMHO, the players' actions these days mean the laws of the game need updating to keep up. At the moment there are significantly more feigned injuries than real ones, meaning a referee is always faced with a decision whether an injury is feigned or not. The Walsall goalie incident is undeniably a bad call, but without the current climate of feigned injuries I am sure the right call would have been made. 

To stop the evolving cheating and in particular feigning of injuries, IMHO the rules of the game also need to evolve. In a very much simpler context I was involved in adapting interpretation of rules in squash some decades ago when some players started time wasting to get their breath back.

The two concepts should be to eliminate or reduce the benefit of cheating, and to punish clear transgressions. I have already suggested a few times on here having an extra medically qualified member of the officiating team in the context of head injuries (feigned or otherwise), involving said player leaving the field for a mandatory 10 minutes and the concussion sub hauled off if the medical referee deems it was feigned. Feigned injured player receives red or yellow card, and not allowed back.

Maybe any goalkeeper injury deemed feigned should entail the keeper being subbed, or having to wait the 30 seconds to come on the pitch like any other player.   

[Donnywolf]

Any mileage do you reckon DU in a fixed time Clock

Your observations are all valid but do you think a large percentage of feigned injuries are simply to run the Clock down , to take the pressure off a defending Team or a bit of both.

Evolved cheating have made Corners a shambles. We know times change , with Football played in colour and a Flat Cap not being mandatory but seriously looking back on those videos well within my lifetime Corners looked to be 'honest" by defenders and attackers and there would not have been extensive rehearsals on Training Grounds with set piece Coaches et al , which has resulted in unchecked all in wrestling.

And I agree Ref on Monday should have immediately stopped play without a thought for anything but the welfare of Josh Martin

He might have been castigated but better safe than sorry , stop the game even if ( and this would be laughable ) he didn't think any offence had been committed by GK

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes indeed re clock DW, and with feigned injuries IMHO it is a bit of both - also to stop momentum, get organised, maybe take on information passed on from manger to medical staff 

[RoversInSpain]

How about a rugby approach, players goes down, ref signals and physio comes on and play continues.

Goalkeeper goes down, on the restart Captain is removed for 1 minute. During the keepers so called treatment all players enter the centre circle and all coaching staff sit on bench.

Any head injury where play is stopped that player must go off for 2 minutes instantly and seek atten.

If the physio has to treat a clear head injury (blood, obvious collision), then that player is instantly substituted for 10 minutes, allowing full treatment off the field and full check. Once ready to resume it’s a straight swop back.

On corners, the referee should not intervene (doing their school teacher impressions) prior to the kick, the kick should take place and depending on the stramashes that take place a free kick or penalty should be awarded.

[jmt23]

It’s an awful game to referee nowadays, you have to play the cautious game and stop play, even though they know they are 90%+ faking it, slowing the play and running down the clock - the flip side isn’t worth the hassle or mental toll of someone being seriously injured.

I’m not sure it can be stopped as you simply cannot prove anything.
Doing the right thing being fair and sporting(sportsmanship) is no longer a thing in most sports, it’s win at all costs- and for me it’s ugly and taken something away from competition. As for the refs, yes there is some proper stinkers at this level, but who would want to be a ref these days almost impossible.

[Dutch Uncle]

With immaculate timing this article has just appeared regarding feigned injuries in Rugby Union. Worth a read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/ce82w36dl23o

Last line:

Rugby's laws, external expressly forbid players to "do anything that may lead the match officials to consider that an opponent has committed an infringement" or, more generally, to act contrary to "the spirit of good sportsmanship".