Signing/renewal incoming

[grayx]

Not just a tune - he is the best player we have in my opinion.

Hes in the top 2. Proper footballer.

[ncRover]

Grant not ruling out further singings later on in the window but sounds happy with the squad he’s got in his latest interview.

[GazLaz]

The 2025 Close/Westbrooke award goes to… George Broadbent. That’s slightly tongue in cheek, but he won’t be seeing that 3rd year of his contract if we are still in L1. Can understand Grant not wanting his contract to run down this season though. I’m not sure he will end up being first choice this season though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Made strides to improve last season, has he improved enough to be effective at the higher level this season?

Bang on.

If he improves as much this year as he did last year, this'll be the best business of the summer.

[sedwardsdrfc]

He did improve a lot towards the end of the season.

We’d have got criticism for extending Olowu contract at one point and in the end he improved to a point where he wasn’t going to stick around.

[grayx]

The 2025 Close/Westbrooke award goes to… George Broadbent. That’s slightly tongue in cheek, but he won’t be seeing that 3rd year of his contract if we are still in L1. Can understand Grant not wanting his contract to run down this season though. I’m not sure he will end up being first choice this season though.

Thats how i see it but would love to be proved wrong. Barely good enough for league 2.

[Metalmicky]

The 2025 Close/Westbrooke award goes to… George Broadbent. That’s slightly tongue in cheek, but he won’t be seeing that 3rd year of his contract if we are still in L1. Can understand Grant not wanting his contract to run down this season though. I’m not sure he will end up being first choice this season though.

Made strides to improve last season, has he improved enough to be effective at the higher level this season?

Bang on.

If he improves as much this year as he did last year, this'll be the best business of the summer.

Choices eh...

[ncRover]

If a loanee had come in this January and played like Broadbent did in that period everybody would be waxing lyrical and demanding we signed him.

[karldew]

If a loanee had come in this January and played like Broadbent did in that period everybody would be waxing lyrical and demanding we signed him.

A player did come in on loan, played better than Broadbent and we are wanting him back on loan in the league above.

I think if it was Broadbent who’d of come in, we’d be thinking we’d need to sign someone better after winning promotion.

[ForsolongaRover]

I have seen quite a lot of praise offered after some performances which doesn’t seem to have been merited. In some games his defensive play, his lack of willingness to tackle, has been obvious and the opposition have exploited it.

[Alan Southstand]

I thought he improved after Crew settled into that Bailey position, with Bailey covering centre back. It’s a good move by the Club because he still has plenty of room for further improvement in him. That said, he’s not the sort of lad,  yet, who is that vital ‘cog’ in our midfield - that part has not arrived yet!

It’ll be interesting to see what sort of impression Gott has this season. There will be lots of energy in that department at least.

[grayx]

If a loanee had come in this January and played like Broadbent did in that period everybody would be waxing lyrical and demanding we signed him.

No they wouldn’t..

[IDM]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

[drfchound]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

Yes and every team needs that type of player too.

[GazLaz]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

That’s the biggest cliche in football.


A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We do need cover and competition in that position though. Not sure what the intentions are with Westbrooke. He can play that role but lacks the game time so he could be that understudy without having to go into the market again.

Crew would be a dynamic addition to the midfield although perhaps better further up the pitch. In time, he could probably adapt to any role but he's still developing physically and needs to be nurtured. Probably one who McCanns prepared to wait for.

[IDM]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

That’s the biggest cliche in football.


A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.

Disagree.  They go unnoticed not because they don’t do much, but because folks aren’t remembering the mundane stuff, more the attacking play and any errors.

Of course, there are more dynamic and exciting players as you’ve noted.

But I stand by my point.

[andyst79]

We do need cover and competition in that position though. Not sure what the intentions are with Westbrooke. He can play that role but lacks the game time so he could be that understudy without having to go into the market again.

Crew would be a dynamic addition to the midfield although perhaps better further up the pitch. In time, he could probably adapt to any role but he's still developing physically and needs to be nurtured. Probably one who McCanns prepared to wait for.

Hope your right DBR cos like you say I feel he could be the final piece in the jigsaw

[Ryaldinhio]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

That’s the biggest cliche in football.


A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.

How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?

Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.

I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.

[GazLaz]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

That’s the biggest cliche in football.


A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.

How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?

Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.

I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.

Data says he’s not very good.

[IDM]

Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:

Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross.  Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post.  I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?

Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10.  Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie.  What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?

What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning?   aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.? 

[selby]

  Gaz, data is not everything it is obvious some eyes disagree with the data because they see the circumstances the data is accompanied with.
  Its purely a numbers game to be used in conjunction with an experienced eye with who puts the data in.
  In most cases its still somebody ticking a box, its  good information to be used in conjunction with other information.
  I don't believe teams like Manchester United don't rely heavily on the system or any Premiership side, but they still can't get 11 to play in a cohesive way.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

That’s the biggest cliche in football.


A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.

How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?

Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.

I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.

Data says he’s not very good.

That's an interpretation of the data. There is no context for us to understand what stats over what period bring you to that conclusion.

[DonnyOsmond]

Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:

Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross.  Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post.  I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?

Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10.  Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie.  What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?

What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning?   aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.? 

That's tracking data, it's where the big money is but it is potentially available to professional football clubs. Majority of us mere mortals will only ever be able to access event data.

[DonnyOsmond]

  Gaz, data is not everything it is obvious some eyes disagree with the data because they see the circumstances the data is accompanied with.
  Its purely a numbers game to be used in conjunction with an experienced eye with who puts the data in.
  In most cases its still somebody ticking a box, its  good information to be used in conjunction with other information.
  I don't believe teams like Manchester United don't rely heavily on the system or any Premiership side, but they still can't get 11 to play in a cohesive way.

Jim Ratcliffe came out about a year ago saying that they're shit with data. They're definitely not in the same league as Liverpool, Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford, etc in that regard.

[grayx]

Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable.  Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.

Another example of this was Paul Keegan.  Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.

That’s the biggest cliche in football.


A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.

How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?

Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.

I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.

Data says he’s not very good.

You dont need data to see that.

[GazLaz]

Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:

Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross.  Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post.  I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?

Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10.  Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie.  What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?

What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning?   aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.? 

It’s difficult to quantify every single action 100% of the time. AI used to track player movements now so that’s bringing about improvements in that area. Also how much players team mates improve when player ‘X” is on the pitch etc etc.

I think people think about data in the wrong way. Data is used by everyone every day, in all walks of life. I’m talking about analytics really, that’s essentially how you use that raw data to give it a predictive element. This can be used to predict how good teams/ players will be.

The level of analytics being used now is mind blowing. It’s at a level that a man in the street would struggle to understand. I don’t mind saying I probably know more than most but I’m a million miles away from the quants and analysts that produce these models. We are talking top class former Oxford/ Cambridge men that would likely be working on the analytics programme for a space travel company if they weren’t working in football. The level that’s been set in football analytics now is mind blowing. It’s not just people looking down a list of stats and seeing how many shots someone has had or how many headers they have won. People are literally predicting the future using historical information.

Research USG in Belgium. They don’t then employ a scout. Just gone from the second division in Belgium to the top level and won the league. They’ve qualified for the CL group stages on a mid table budget for the league.

All by picking players off a spreadsheet that were playing in leagues nobody else was really looking at.

[ncRover]

There are lots of psychological factors that determine how well an individual and team can perform each season / month / week that surely even the best analytics model can’t factor in. E.g. dressing room culture, team-mate relationships, family life.

I think the club has put a big onus on making sure there is a really strong culture which can help the team perform greater than the sum of its parts.

Will there come a point where we reach peak-level analytics that most clubs are using data in the same way so that they have to look for that extra advantage somewhere more ‘old-fashioned’?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"

I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.

He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.

It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.

[5minstogo]

It's very true it comes down to what data and how to interpret it. Rovers some way behind when they tried telling us James Brown was a better player than Kyle Knoyle.