I'm just wondering...

[BobG]

Having just spent an hour or so catching up on all the posts and threads, I'm wondering if last night may turn out to have been a seminal moment...

For the first time ever, I think, the threads tonight seem to me to have introduced a sea change in the attitude towards our manager. It doesn't look irretrievable right now, but it does look as if a pretty radical reassessment has started. And that, given the huge leeway he has previously earned, looks seminal to me. A stuffing at Cardiff could be bloody damaging in a lot more ways than the obvious one...

BobG

[keith79]

Id say over the last 2 years he deserves time. Im not his biggest fan, i never wanted him back, but he deserves time.

[Move DRFC]

I'm more concerned about the unsustainable club model that currently has GM calling the shots on everything the club does. What is the succession plan?

[mpc123]

I dont see the problem with Mccann. We are where we are in league 1.

Budgets talk really and its a mixture of this thread. We came up from league 2, we will near a year or 2 to get sorted for this league. Look at port vale, yet Bradford will have the budget.

Why dont we have it, because of going too far on a unsustainable budget. All makes sense to me.

Happy with under mid table this year, to build next year, if we get more its all a bonus

[Reg of the Rovers]

Agree with the OP. The 'we've got MacCann' song was a regular every single game, now it's a rarer occurrance that it's sung - just as one example.

I think the general sentiments that it's a tougher league, we were a league lower last year, we won't have one of the biggest budgets in this league etc etc are true. However, if you review our season game-by-game taking in to account the team Grant (and team) has picked, the formation, the subs he's made and when, and the general ability to recognise and change things when they're not working I think there are lots of really poor examples - Tuesday night being case in point.

Added to that Grant's summer recruitment has been generally terrible (Ajayi, Crew, Olusanya, Middleton, Gotts etc) and the retention of players that ultimately aren't good enough (Sbarra, Close, Westbrooke etc) has meant we have a bloated squad and areas of major weakness (midfield, striker, maybe keeper) so it's right that people are asking questions and maybe doubting Grants infallibility a little bit.

We've got to stay up this year, it's not a time for knee jerks right now, but if we're still languishing come Feb then it's time to change - and the Board already ought to be developing plans for this just in case.

[mpc123]

Personally I think we are fine, I expected it.

We can all look from afar a pick out weaknesses it is the easiest job in the world, most importantly, there will always be some.

We have a manager who is capable, we have a manager that feels for the club, its time to support him, not look or think about to get rid in Feb from early parts of Dec. Support and encourage, sing his name, the players names what ever the result. Its then upto someone upstairs, as SUPPORTERS, we will have then done our job.

[grayx]

Providing we dont go down i think Mc Cann will be ok. I’d like to think he will have plans to strengthen in Jan and to free up some space in the squad by getting rid of a few that obviously arent up to it. Those responsible for identifying/ recruiting players ( assuming its not just Mc Cann) need to dramatically improve or be replaced.

[Blue Green Algae]

I dont see the problem with Mccann. We are where we are in league 1.

Budgets talk really and its a mixture of this thread. We came up from league 2, we will near a year or 2 to get sorted for this league. Look at port vale, yet Bradford will have the budget.

Why dont we have it, because of going too far on a unsustainable budget. All makes sense to me.

Happy with under mid table this year, to build next year, if we get more its all a bonus

For me McCann isn't the right manager for working with a limited budget where he also has ultimate control over recruitment.

I rate him as a manager who will get the best out of decent players, but I don't rate his ability to identify those players.

So, if anything was to change it wouldn't be the manager for me, it'd be the structure around the manager. But I doubt Grant will want to give that control up and I doubt the club will see a need to do it. Which is problematic.

[Bentley Bullet]

Maybe putting out of work Darren Ferguson on the payroll to do a bit of scouting for us.

There must be another Alfie May out there somewhere!

[DearneValleyRover]

I can’t be the only one that can see the pattern, recruit in the summer with an idea in his head, keep shuffling the pack up to Christmas recruit better in January then finally settle on a first eleven and we suddenly start picking up points

[normal rules]

We really need an “ Adelakun” type signing in the new year.

[Goole Rover]

Maybe putting out of work Darren Ferguson on the payroll to do a bit of scouting for us.

There must be another Alfie May out there somewhere!

We'll only give him away. On that note Darren will soon be on his way.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

[GazLaz]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

The club set the expectations in pre season.

[Spud]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

The club set the expectations in pre season.

The club are hardly gonna say owt else though are they Gaz?

Most supporters should & do have realistic expectations, it's all or nowt on here from some after every game though.

[scawsby steve]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

Herbert, mate, we're only thinking along the same lines as Terry. He says he wants to leave the club with a good legacy. What that means we can't be sure, but he has overseen, along with others, 5 seasons in the Championship, albeit with bigger budgets.

What he certainly won't want is yo-yoing between League 1 and League 2. That's the road to nowhere.

Personally, the first thing I'd like to see is the removal of Lee Glover. He's clearly not up to it.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

The club set the expectations in pre season.

Behave yourself Gaz. You’re smart enough to know how the game works. The club aren’t going to come out and say that survival is their objective this season are they? We’ve all been around the block enough to understand that progress is a small stepped journey in the main.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

Herbert, mate, we're only thinking along the same lines as Terry. He says he wants to leave the club with a good legacy. What that means we can't be sure, but he has overseen, along with others, 5 seasons in the Championship, albeit with bigger budgets.

What he certainly won't want is yo-yoing between League 1 and League 2. That's the road to nowhere.

Personally, the first thing I'd like to see is the removal of Lee Glover. He's clearly not up to it.

I agree Steve, nobody wants to be a yo yo club. But we need to be realistic in how we view progress. For me, a season of consolidation in League 1 is no bad thing, after all progress and improvement is a journey of baby steps except in extreme circumstances. The past 2 seasons were great and I suspect some people thought that we would take that to the next level in League 1 when in reality, without getting a largely new team, it was never going to happen. We are slightly below where I thought that we’d be but there’s a long way to go yet and for people to begin questioning Grant seems crazy to me.

[ForsolongaRover]

Having just spent an hour or so catching up on all the posts and threads, I'm wondering if last night may turn out to have been a seminal moment...

For the first time ever, I think, the threads tonight seem to me to have introduced a sea change in the attitude towards our manager. It doesn't look irretrievable right now, but it does look as if a pretty radical reassessment has started. And that, given the huge leeway he has previously earned, looks seminal to me. A stuffing at Cardiff could be bloody damaging in a lot more ways than the obvious one...

BobG

As I've said at some length before and I won't repeat it in detail, he has had two good January Windows - the first exceptional and the second with the recruitment of Street very fruitful in the goalscoring department. If he can pick up latent talent again, we should be fine, but in general it's not the best time for effective recruitment. 

[GazLaz]

I think that the main problem is the unrealistic expectations of some supporters.

The club set the expectations in pre season.

Behave yourself Gaz. You’re smart enough to know how the game works. The club aren’t going to come out and say that survival is their objective this season are they? We’ve all been around the block enough to understand that progress is a small stepped journey in the main.

Realistically finishing 12 would be fair and we are 3 points off there.

[graingrover]

I believe in him .To lose Grant would be to wipe away not just a manager but a whole support staff , the Chairman and CEO's acumen and ethics in my view The reaction to the defeat of Peterborough , 5- 1 thrashing of Chesterfield and 1- 2 follow win was ok ..the reaction to the defeat against high flying Stockport and risk of defest at the table Toppers needs a show of support rather than of defeatism .How to be positive when your team is on a losing streak should be old hat to us lot after 40 years Bob G !

[Barmby Rover]

No question, Grant McCann is a good manager, and will get it right. Recruitment in the next window wil determine where we end up this season. It is a bit like the first season that SOD took us up, a bit of a struggle and with a lot moaning bucket loads might have been sacked if we hadn't won the JPT, two seasons later we won at Wembley. That first SOD season ended up being 10th, however we did have Paul Heffernan round that time, what I wouldn't give to have another Heffernan in during January! Let's see.

[BobG]

Hey! Graing! Everyone! Please re-read my OP. Not once did I say anything about Grants' competence - or otherwise.  The whole point of my post was that that match against Stockport looks, to me, to have triggered a sea change in supporter belief. Reg of the Rovers expanded on the point and gave an entirely different illustration of that change. I'm talking about supporters. Not the manager.....

In my eyes, as I said originally, it is not yet irreversible, but that change is now clearly apparent. And it is growing.


BobG

[NickDRFC]

A sea change suggests something really significant or dramatic which feels a bit over the top to me. We’ve lost a lot of games recently and not won many, whilst McCann’s made some odd decisions. It’s not unusual that some questions are being asked. It’s easy to forget but similar questions were being asked a year ago and we were picking up a lot more points back then.

[BobG]

A sea change, in my experience anyway, means a major shift of position, of expectation, of belief. Of pretty well anything to be honest. It doesn't  have to be dramatically quick. It just needs to be a noticeable change - which I think is now apparent amongst the general run of supporters. Page 3 of the 'January' thread is full of it for example.

BobG

[dickos1]

Gavin said the target was midtable, but grant being McCann was hoping for better, we’re 2 points off midtable.
Talk of McCann going is nonsense,

[Bentley Bullet]

To progress, or even to sustain the same position, a team needs a competent manager with adequate funding. I believe McCann is a competent manager, but I'm not convinced that the current funding is adequate, despite the obvious increase in funding given to McCann on his arrival.

I do wonder, mind, what Wellens, and especially McSheffrey would have achieved having similar funding available.

[knockers]

If we end up 5-10th from bottom with the three good cup runs that we’ve had then it’s been a good season.
It’s not pretty or exciting to watch but it is a stepping stone for next season.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

If we end up 5-10th from bottom with the three good cup runs that we’ve had then it’s been a good season.
It’s not pretty or exciting to watch but it is a stepping stone for next season.

I agree with this, but I think January is key. Often there's a good signing or two on January. I do think there needs to be a step back and thought about what players we need where, but equally it may be that we didn't get the players we wanted in the summer.

Some good points on the long term. I tend to think for us it's not following the model of other clubs but doing something different as we can't compete just doing the same thing.  I'd really love to see better players through the academy but that's so hard to do.

[Usher wide.]

How many games have you been to this season BG to be able to gauge the mood of the supporters?

Or is your ‘theory’ based on tv games & some morons on this forum?

Grant McCann is a breath of fresh air as club manager. He tells it as it is, as we supporters see it too.

We’re carrying some dead wood on the playing side & mistakes in recruitment have been made, that’s clear to us all & I suspect Grant too.

Come January I expect Olusanya, Crew & Ajayi to be returned to their clubs. We’re stuck with Hanlan for now but I expect a striker will be a priority to supplement him & Billy along with a defensive midfielder who can read the game & take pressure off Broadbent & Bailey.

If we lose O’Riordan back to Blackburn a similar replacement would be necessary.

An experienced keeper who has played at a higher level would be a bonus.