Charlie Crew

[i_ateallthepies]

And he doesn’t tackle! We have players who are ok when we have the ball but can’t do the dirty work when we havn’t got it.

Interestingly, last season (closed due to greater minute sample size) Crew did more tackling (per 90) than Broadbent. 

It’s not a game of tackles anymore, it’s a game of interceptions, even at L1 level. Physicality is obviously a thing but recruiting players that are “experienced” and “get stuck in” won’t get you very far in the long term. Just sign players that are good.

Then Saturday's game must have been an outlier in that metric because it was clear throughout the game that in 50/50 battles our players were easily brushed aside by the greater strength and stature of the Cardif players.

I think 50/50 battles go down as ‘duels’ which is a completely separate stat.

Thanks for the clarification on that metric, nc but Gazlaz appears to imply that physicality isn’t a significant factor which was the point I was challenging.

Physicality is a big factor for sure. We possibly just see it slightly differently. Who is more physical, Mickey Demetriou?

I’m not saying you do, but people’s perception of physical is a centre half like Colin Sutherland or a midfielder like Alan Little. I see it as someone with enough athleticism to be able to impose themself on their opponent and  who wins more duels than they lose.

The John Stones example, he’s a rolls Royce of a centre half, but he’s athletic enough to be able to dominate strikers if needed, without being a hatchet man.

Agree with GazLaz, it's more about core strength and being able to hold off your opponent. For example Cardiffs two goals where their players ran through and held off challenges. These weren't big lads but they had sufficient robustness to stay on their feet and drive through into the danger area.

Defensively, whether midfielder or across the back four, you can't be making slide tackles by going to ground too often, cos it takes you out of the game. The game generally is higher paced these days.

I think Charlie knows how to close down players and wrap them up and as he develops his upper body and core strength, he'll add that element to his game. As with most players, the rest is about intensity, concentration, vision etc which comes with experience. We've seen a few lapses from him when losing players but he's far from being on his own in that department.

50/50 for me whether Leeds and he are getting good value from us and visa versa. He came good in the second half of last season so, given enough opportunities, who knows but is he up for a relegation scrap?

Ok chaps, now we're on the same page.  My point about physicality most certainly wasn't with hatchet men in mind but the physical strength and ability to hold off opposition players competing for the ball.  We have too few of these types in our squad and it is a common theme in our games.

[GazLaz]

And he doesn’t tackle! We have players who are ok when we have the ball but can’t do the dirty work when we havn’t got it.

Interestingly, last season (closed due to greater minute sample size) Crew did more tackling (per 90) than Broadbent. 

It’s not a game of tackles anymore, it’s a game of interceptions, even at L1 level. Physicality is obviously a thing but recruiting players that are “experienced” and “get stuck in” won’t get you very far in the long term. Just sign players that are good.

Then Saturday's game must have been an outlier in that metric because it was clear throughout the game that in 50/50 battles our players were easily brushed aside by the greater strength and stature of the Cardif players.

I think 50/50 battles go down as ‘duels’ which is a completely separate stat.

Thanks for the clarification on that metric, nc but Gazlaz appears to imply that physicality isn’t a significant factor which was the point I was challenging.

Physicality is a big factor for sure. We possibly just see it slightly differently. Who is more physical, Mickey Demetriou?

I’m not saying you do, but people’s perception of physical is a centre half like Colin Sutherland or a midfielder like Alan Little. I see it as someone with enough athleticism to be able to impose themself on their opponent and  who wins more duels than they lose.

The John Stones example, he’s a rolls Royce of a centre half, but he’s athletic enough to be able to dominate strikers if needed, without being a hatchet man.

Agree with GazLaz, it's more about core strength and being able to hold off your opponent. For example Cardiffs two goals where their players ran through and held off challenges. These weren't big lads but they had sufficient robustness to stay on their feet and drive through into the danger area.

Defensively, whether midfielder or across the back four, you can't be making slide tackles by going to ground too often, cos it takes you out of the game. The game generally is higher paced these days.

I think Charlie knows how to close down players and wrap them up and as he develops his upper body and core strength, he'll add that element to his game. As with most players, the rest is about intensity, concentration, vision etc which comes with experience. We've seen a few lapses from him when losing players but he's far from being on his own in that department.

50/50 for me whether Leeds and he are getting good value from us and visa versa. He came good in the second half of last season so, given enough opportunities, who knows but is he up for a relegation scrap?

Ok chaps, now we're on the same page.  My point about physicality most certainly wasn't with hatchet men in mind but the physical strength and ability to hold off opposition players competing for the ball.  We have too few of these types in our squad and it is a common theme in our games.

I agree, recruiting players with the characteristics of players that can play at the level above that that you are playing is key. Does Gotts have the profile of a future Championship midfielder? No he doesn’t. Does Bailey? He had the physicality and dynamism for sure.

I’m extremely fortunate that I’ve seen enough of how the best recruiters do their business to know how any data led recruitment model should be weighted. If data isn’t your thing, that can be referenced as what skills translate most consistently when players  move clubs. Basically if  you find player that are very good at X, Y and Z Those three assets combined are actually more important than their strength in areas A to W.

It’s not hugely complex, just profile correctly and be consistent.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Agree with GazLaz, it's more about core strength and being able to hold off your opponent. For example Cardiffs two goals where their players ran through and held off challenges. These weren't big lads but they had sufficient robustness to stay on their feet and drive through into the danger area.

Defensively, whether midfielder or across the back four, you can't be making slide tackles by going to ground too often, cos it takes you out of the game. The game generally is higher paced these days.

I think Charlie knows how to close down players and wrap them up and as he develops his upper body and core strength, he'll add that element to his game. As with most players, the rest is about intensity, concentration, vision etc which comes with experience. We've seen a few lapses from him when losing players but he's far from being on his own in that department.

50/50 for me whether Leeds and he are getting good value from us and visa versa. He came good in the second half of last season so, given enough opportunities, who knows but is he up for a relegation scrap?

I agree with a lot of that DBR but he didn’t come good in the second half of last season. He only signed in January and only really imposed himself on the team in the last half dozen games.


There’s clearly some talent there, though, and for me he’s worth keeping unless him going back frees up enough cash for us to get someone in who’s clearly going to be better. I don’t think there’s any point terminating the loan of one talented but raw 19 year old and replacing with another talented but raw 19 year old who doesn’t know McCann, the squad, the environment etc.

Yes, you're more accurate about his timeline with us. I think we all thought he'd hit the ground running this season based on that but for whatever reason, inc the international breaks, he's not forced himself into the reckoning enough.

Having watched a bit of the lad who's been 'on trial' I think he seems to have a better mix of the technical and physical so I could see him possibly being a better long term investment if McCann's seeing the same qualities.

[Usher wide.]

And he doesn’t tackle! We have players who are ok when we have the ball but can’t do the dirty work when we havn’t got it.

Interestingly, last season (closed due to greater minute sample size) Crew did more tackling (per 90) than Broadbent. 

It’s not a game of tackles anymore, it’s a game of interceptions, even at L1 level. Physicality is obviously a thing but recruiting players that are “experienced” and “get stuck in” won’t get you very far in the long term. Just sign players that are good.

Then Saturday's game must have been an outlier in that metric because it was clear throughout the game that in 50/50 battles our players were easily brushed aside by the greater strength and stature of the Cardif players.

I think 50/50 battles go down as ‘duels’ which is a completely separate stat.

Thanks for the clarification on that metric, nc but Gazlaz appears to imply that physicality isn’t a significant factor which was the point I was challenging.

Physicality is a big factor for sure. We possibly just see it slightly differently. Who is more physical, Mickey Demetriou?

I’m not saying you do, but people’s perception of physical is a centre half like Colin Sutherland or a midfielder like Alan Little. I see it as someone with enough athleticism to be able to impose themself on their opponent and  who wins more duels than they lose.

The John Stones example, he’s a rolls Royce of a centre half, but he’s athletic enough to be able to dominate strikers if needed, without being a hatchet man.

Agree with GazLaz, it's more about core strength and being able to hold off your opponent. For example Cardiffs two goals where their players ran through and held off challenges. These weren't big lads but they had sufficient robustness to stay on their feet and drive through into the danger area.

Defensively, whether midfielder or across the back four, you can't be making slide tackles by going to ground too often, cos it takes you out of the game. The game generally is higher paced these days.

I think Charlie knows how to close down players and wrap them up and as he develops his upper body and core strength, he'll add that element to his game. As with most players, the rest is about intensity, concentration, vision etc which comes with experience. We've seen a few lapses from him when losing players but he's far from being on his own in that department.

50/50 for me whether Leeds and he are getting good value from us and visa versa. He came good in the second half of last season so, given enough opportunities, who knows but is he up for a relegation scrap?

Ok chaps, now we're on the same page.  My point about physicality most certainly wasn't with hatchet men in mind but the physical strength and ability to hold off opposition players competing for the ball.  We have too few of these types in our squad and it is a common theme in our games.

I agree, recruiting players with the characteristics of players that can play at the level above that that you are playing is key. Does Gotts have the profile of a future Championship midfielder? No he doesn’t. Does Bailey? He had the physicality and dynamism for sure.

I’m extremely fortunate that I’ve seen enough of how the best recruiters do their business to know how any data led recruitment model should be weighted. If data isn’t your thing, that can be referenced as what skills translate most consistently when players  move clubs. Basically if  you find player that are very good at X, Y and Z Those three assets combined are actually more important than their strength in areas A to W.

It’s not hugely complex, just profile correctly and be consistent.

I’m truly not being pedantic here, but it’s not as simple as your last paragraph suggests is it.

Look at O’Riordan He’s played virtually every game since we’ve had him & most supporters I would venture thought ‘We’ve got a good one here’. And yet he’s had his fair share of criticism on the forum more recently. We’re leaking goals & it seems to be the case whichever central pairing we have playing.

Is he a Matt Mills, I wouldn’t think so. So if we were in a position to sign him permanently would you take that ‘leap of faith’ that he would be able to make that ‘step up’ when we’re in the Championship? (as we will soon be).

I’ll jump on my ‘soap box’ again in the full knowledge that you will disagree, but I look at the players we have at present & I see only two who would be more than capable & effective to play at a higher level & they are Bailey & Molyneaux (although your mate Nudga would have the pair sold tomorrow for £1.25 million) leaving us scrambling to ‘buy better for less money’ (a ‘mantra’ he’s picked up from you perhaps?).

Recruitment in the summer was largely diabolical, I think we both agree on that & that needs addressing within the club if we are to ‘give’ Terry the legacy he desires, Championship football, before ‘Father Time’ catches up on him.

The X, Y & Z (allow me to call them technical ability, vision & drive. The sort of qualities a footballer like James Coppinger possessed).

They are onlyof use to the team if you have players that have compatible attributes through A to W (a huge area to encompass which is why it’s not as simple as you make out) which for me comprises of physical strength (like a Rob Jones), game management (like a Wellens), positional sense (like a Heffernan), game management (like a Whiteman) you catch my drift.

Find 5 players of that calibre & you have a real chance of progression.

Not so easy then is it as laying down formulas?

[BobG]

You can take a horse to water.....

[Prez]

Im gonna get slated for this, but how Crew starts over Ben Close, yes Ben close is baffling me.

Crew is sadly a lost boy.

At least Ben can show composure and pass the ball.

[In the box]

You can take a horse to water.....

Charlie Crew has so much potential needs better players around him who can take advantage of his passing ability! Ben Close has a good football brain but has no fight when required , unlike Crew who most probably get sent off for his rashness when things require a rolled up sleeves moment !

[redarmi66]

You can take a horse to water.....

Charlie Crew has so much potential needs better players around him who can take advantage of his passing ability! Ben Close has a good football brain but has no fight when required , unlike Crew who most probably get sent off for his rashness when things require a rolled up sleeves moment !

I think both players need protecting if they are to effect games. They need legs and aggression along side them. Otherwise they are just luxury players we cannot carry. Neither has the ability to take control of the midfield and dominate at this level from what i have seen.

[graingrover]

We don’t need players with potential to get us moving up the table but experienced doers now !

[GazLaz]

Another slight concern is that we have brought two loan players back in TLT and CC and they’ve both been miles off it. How did the club not know that these two would offer very little in league 1?

[jmt23]

I think this higher level has caught us out, the overall quality of teams in every position is far far greater than that of league 2.

The problem is that our current team (mostly last seasons) are/were too good at that level so we dominated a lot of the games, and it maybe didn’t highlight any deficiencies we had for the level above.

I was always concerned about this when players like Adelukan and Street were seen as not good enough for league 1, but were far superior at most measurable metrics than the rest.

We clearly don’t have the budget to have made wholesale changes, but the question should be did the budget available get spent in the right areas to enable us to stay in the league and add to again next season - it will be a rollercoaster.

[Donnybax]

Another slight concern is that we have brought two loan players back in TLT and CC and they’ve both been miles off it. How did the club not know that these two would offer very little in league 1?

Crew has barely played and when he has he's tended to be with Broadbent who is a massive hinderance. The time he played without him at Cardiff he was good.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Another slight concern is that we have brought two loan players back in TLT and CC and they’ve both been miles off it. How did the club not know that these two would offer very little in league 1?

Crew has barely played and when he has he's tended to be with Broadbent who is a massive hinderance. The time he played without him at Cardiff he was good.

I thought the other season him and Brosdbent played together really well in the run in that got us over the line. Bailey moved to centre half which meant instead of him playing so high up the pitch Broadbent had a partner in midfield with Clifton been the one trying to get forward.

We’ve fallen into the trap of having both Bailey and Clifton trying to get high instead of been a bit steadier and playing Broadbent with a partner like Close or Crew. People forget we got caught out a bit in L2 in midfield and looked so much better when Crew partnered Broadbent.

[bobbymax]

Another slight concern is that we have brought two loan players back in TLT and CC and they’ve both been miles off it. How did the club not know that these two would offer very little in league 1?

Crew has barely played and when he has he's tended to be with Broadbent who is a massive hinderance. The time he played without him at Cardiff he was good.

I thought the other season him and Brosdbent played together really well in the run in that got us over the line. Bailey moved to centre half which meant instead of him playing so high up the pitch Broadbent had a partner in midfield with Clifton been the one trying to get forward.

We’ve fallen into the trap of having both Bailey and Clifton trying to get high instead of been a bit steadier and playing Broadbent with a partner like Close or Crew. People forget we got caught out a bit in L2 in midfield and looked so much better when Crew partnered Broadbent.

I've been having similar thoughts. Play Broadbent and Close/Crew together to offer a bit more protection. Drop Bailey to centre-back and Clifton/Mols/Gibbo/Middleton can then offer greater support to Hanlan. McGrath needs taking out of the firing-line so bring back Pearson.

[Cramby10]

Another slight concern is that we have brought two loan players back in TLT and CC and they’ve both been miles off it. How did the club not know that these two would offer very little in league 1?

Crew has barely played and when he has he's tended to be with Broadbent who is a massive hinderance. The time he played without him at Cardiff he was good.

I thought the other season him and Brosdbent played together really well in the run in that got us over the line. Bailey moved to centre half which meant instead of him playing so high up the pitch Broadbent had a partner in midfield with Clifton been the one trying to get forward.

We’ve fallen into the trap of having both Bailey and Clifton trying to get high instead of been a bit steadier and playing Broadbent with a partner like Close or Crew. People forget we got caught out a bit in L2 in midfield and looked so much better when Crew partnered Broadbent.

agree with this in spades. Despite Baileys 6 goals and how important they’ve been, he is still our best centre half and should be played there. It was no coincidence last season that our form hit top gear when McGrath got injured and GM was forced to put Bailey at the back with Crew and Broadbent in front. The team functioned SO much better.

[Thorney]

Surely crew is off back in Jan?

Why else would he have been left out against plymouth after a positive day against Cardiff?

[selby]

  I would not be surprised if all the loans didn't survive the cull, in fact I am in favour of it, would have kept O'Riordon but he is out of our hands who I feel did ok but was starting to suffer with the lack of quality alongside him.
  I would prefer less numbers and permanent signings with the money saved if we send them all back but would aim to pay more to a couple of better players who would improve us than the numbers now on loan, a really good central mid fielder and striker and keeper, but not a priority 
  Pearson, Flint, Faulkner, and Bailey are enough to sort a decent back line out with the wing backs already here and give the option of a back three with pace or a back four
  And at the same time send some out if I could get them out who would muddy the waters and twiddle thumbs for the rest of the season if they hung around.
  Flints best position is defensive mid field which would also give the option of Bailey shoving forward with a back four  with Pearson and Faulkner if we needed to really tighten up during a game.

[TonySoprano]

Surely crew is off back in Jan?

Why else would he have been left out against plymouth after a positive day against Cardiff?

Hopefully he is, but i wouldn't read anything into him not playing given how GM likes to f**k around with the team selections.

[Smyth]

Surely crew is off back in Jan?

Why else would he have been left out against plymouth after a positive day against Cardiff?

Hopefully he is, but i wouldn't read anything into him not playing given how GM likes to f**k around with the team selections.

"Choosing a team to match the opposition"

[Ian Nimmo]

Yeah, like we matched the opposition on Saturday!

[karldew]

  I would not be surprised if all the loans didn't survive the cull, in fact I am in favour of it, would have kept O'Riordon but he is out of our hands who I feel did ok but was starting to suffer with the lack of quality alongside him.
  I would prefer less numbers and permanent signings with the money saved if we send them all back but would aim to pay more to a couple of better players who would improve us than the numbers now on loan, a really good central mid fielder and striker and keeper, but not a priority 
  Pearson, Flint, Faulkner, and Bailey are enough to sort a decent back line out with the wing backs already here and give the option of a back three with pace or a back four
  And at the same time send some out if I could get them out who would muddy the waters and twiddle thumbs for the rest of the season if they hung around.
  Flints best position is defensive mid field which would also give the option of Bailey shoving forward with a back four  with Pearson and Faulkner if we needed to really tighten up during a game.

I wouldn’t want to see Faulkner and Pearson ever as a back 2 pairing, not even in league 2.

[Bentley Bullet]

I think our problem is our midfield. All flair and no scare. This puts more pressure on our defence, and as a result, puts more pressure on our goalkeeper.

.... But what do I know!

[ncRover]

I think our problem is our midfield. All flair and no scare. This puts more pressure on our defence, and as a result, puts more pressure on our goalkeeper.

.... But what do I know!

Who is the flair player in our midfield exactly?

[Reg of the Rovers]

I think our problem is our midfield. All flair and no scare. This puts more pressure on our defence, and as a result, puts more pressure on our goalkeeper.

.... But what do I know!

It’s all bore and no core unfortunately BB.

[selby]

  karldew, when have you watched them play this season to know?
   And if they  do I will bet you £50 with it going to the youth team they won't let nine goals in in two games.
   It's not hard to get better than that Buddy.

[Thorney]

  karldew, when have you watched them play this season to know?
   And if they  do I will bet you £50 with it going to the youth team they won't let nine goals in in two games.
   It's not hard to get better than that Buddy.

But your including bobby in this who was part of a CB pair that conceded 3 goals 4 games in a row in a lower league.

Not the stability we need.

And pearson hast been a beacon of stability when hes played.
So Karldew statment is a fair shout

[selby]

  Yes but his stats which are way up in those games and the supporters MOM awards put him in the top five defender's in the division  over 12 games in a poor team, and whether he plays here or elsewhere is no skin off his nose, and he has already that option which is up to the club whether they let him out or not.
  He could hardly do worse if they use him, he was better at 17 yrs old than has been on show lately and is a beast of a player now.

[BessieBlue]

We need better than Faulkner!

[selby]

 You won't get one, and no need to waste that much money.

[Donnybax]

  Yes but his stats which are way up in those games and the supporters MOM awards put him in the top five defender's in the division  over 12 games in a poor team, and whether he plays here or elsewhere is no skin off his nose, and he has already that option which is up to the club whether they let him out or not.
  He could hardly do worse if they use him, he was better at 17 yrs old than has been on show lately and is a beast of a player now.

they're second bottom of the league and only 3 teams have conceded more