Our form: historic context

[BillyStubbsTears]

I can only think of two worse runs of league form in the 50-odd years I've been supporting us, than the current 6 points from 16 games.

Game 26-41 in 2015/16. 4 points from 16 games as we  succumbed to relegation in the most spineless manner. We won the 17th game.

First 16 games of 97/98. 5 draws from 16 games. We didn't have another run as bad as that even in that season. In the final 16 games we managed 8 points. Even though (if my research is correct) the squad was so God awful that only Adie Mike and Martin Pemberton ever played another FL game.

From a very quick look at the results in some of our historically bad seasons, the worst runs of form I can find (on 3 points for a win) are 5 points from 18 games and 6 from 23 games in the record-breaking 1904/05 season (P34 W3 D2 L29).

We drew the 17th game of 97/98.

So if we lose on Thursday, we'll have matched the very worst run of form of the side comprising Lee Warren, Mark Weaver's 16 stone mate from the Stockport Sunday League and the Moss Side Mafia.

It really, really doesn't get much worse than this.

[Barmby Rover]

I agree with you BST, this run is terrible, but to compare it to that team that nearly saw the demise of the club altogether is a bit harsh, and if that performance against Stockport doesn't convince you of that then you have lost faith in the club completely. They are not a terrible team, things can change, as we saw a couple of seasons ago. I don't expect us to end up in the play-offs or anything like that, or even to beat league leaders like Bolton, but they will survive this season and not go down. In reality that is what we could expect this season, but we do need cash injections for next season if Rovers are to do anything but struggle in this division.

[StocksArmy]

We won’t get better than McCann though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BR

I'm just giving the numbers.

For what its worth, I entirely agree that the current squad, relative to this division, is incomparably better than 97/98. But it's a fact that we have been very nearly as bad as them at actually, y'know, winning points for a third of a season.Which raises the question: Where is the problem?

[TonySoprano]

BR

I'm just giving the numbers.

For what its worth, I entirely agree that the current squad, relative to this division, is incomparably better than 97/98. But it's a fact that we have been very nearly as bad as them at actually, y'know, winning points for a third of a season.Which raises the question: Where is the problem?

Where do you think the problem lies ? Let's have it

[tommy toes]

Remember speaking to Lee Warren around that time. He went on a rant about the Firestarter, Weaver and his so called team mates.
Good lad.

[BobG]

BR

I'm just giving the numbers.

For what its worth, I entirely agree that the current squad, relative to this division, is incomparably better than 97/98. But it's a fact that we have been very nearly as bad as them at actually, y'know, winning points for a third of a season.Which raises the question: Where is the problem?

Where do you think the problem lies ? Let's have it

It's pretty obvious to be honest. And it's been discussed ad nauseam on here. So rather than trying to score juvenile points, have a read of this site. Even better, work it out for yourself.

BobG

[Upton Rover]

I can only think of two worse runs of league form in the 50-odd years I've been supporting us, than the current 6 points from 16 games.

Game 26-41 in 2015/16. 4 points from 16 games as we  succumbed to relegation in the most spineless manner. We won the 17th game.

First 16 games of 97/98. 5 draws from 16 games. We didn't have another run as bad as that even in that season. In the final 16 games we managed 8 points. Even though (if my research is correct) the squad was so God awful that only Adie Mike and Martin Pemberton ever played another FL game.

From a very quick look at the results in some of our historically bad seasons, the worst runs of form I can find (on 3 points for a win) are 5 points from 18 games and 6 from 23 games in the record-breaking 1904/05 season (P34 W3 D2 L29).

We drew the 17th game of 97/98.

So if we lose on Thursday, we'll have matched the very worst run of form of the side comprising Lee Warren, Mark Weaver's 16 stone mate from the Stockport Sunday League and the Moss Side Mafia.

It really, really doesn't get much worse than this.

Did we stay with the same manager on those other two worse runs? Just wondering

[Fal]

Some stats from the BBC which based on current results im expecting both to end today, its either a good omen or they've just cursed us even more!

Doncaster have won each of their last five league games played on New Year’s Day, the joint-longest ongoing run of any side in England’s top four tiers (level with Manchester City).

Bolton have lost each of their last seven away league games played on New Year’s Day since a 1-1 draw at Liverpool in 2002. Their last away victory on January 1st was in 2001 (2-0 at Preston).

[BillyStubbsTears]

I can only think of two worse runs of league form in the 50-odd years I've been supporting us, than the current 6 points from 16 games.

Game 26-41 in 2015/16. 4 points from 16 games as we  succumbed to relegation in the most spineless manner. We won the 17th game.

First 16 games of 97/98. 5 draws from 16 games. We didn't have another run as bad as that even in that season. In the final 16 games we managed 8 points. Even though (if my research is correct) the squad was so God awful that only Adie Mike and Martin Pemberton ever played another FL game.

From a very quick look at the results in some of our historically bad seasons, the worst runs of form I can find (on 3 points for a win) are 5 points from 18 games and 6 from 23 games in the record-breaking 1904/05 season (P34 W3 D2 L29).

We drew the 17th game of 97/98.

So if we lose on Thursday, we'll have matched the very worst run of form of the side comprising Lee Warren, Mark Weaver's 16 stone mate from the Stockport Sunday League and the Moss Side Mafia.

It really, really doesn't get much worse than this.

Phew...

[DMnumber4]

I can only think of two worse runs of league form in the 50-odd years I've been supporting us, than the current 6 points from 16 games.

Game 26-41 in 2015/16. 4 points from 16 games as we  succumbed to relegation in the most spineless manner. We won the 17th game.

First 16 games of 97/98. 5 draws from 16 games. We didn't have another run as bad as that even in that season. In the final 16 games we managed 8 points. Even though (if my research is correct) the squad was so God awful that only Adie Mike and Martin Pemberton ever played another FL game.

From a very quick look at the results in some of our historically bad seasons, the worst runs of form I can find (on 3 points for a win) are 5 points from 18 games and 6 from 23 games in the record-breaking 1904/05 season (P34 W3 D2 L29).

We drew the 17th game of 97/98.

So if we lose on Thursday, we'll have matched the very worst run of form of the side comprising Lee Warren, Mark Weaver's 16 stone mate from the Stockport Sunday League and the Moss Side Mafia.

It really, really doesn't get much worse than this.

Phew...

Third time in 5 seasons that Rovers have had runs like this. Wellens and McSheffrey,  then Schofield presided over spells of 9 points from 16 games.

[Reg of the Rovers]

I can only think of two worse runs of league form in the 50-odd years I've been supporting us, than the current 6 points from 16 games.

Game 26-41 in 2015/16. 4 points from 16 games as we  succumbed to relegation in the most spineless manner. We won the 17th game.

First 16 games of 97/98. 5 draws from 16 games. We didn't have another run as bad as that even in that season. In the final 16 games we managed 8 points. Even though (if my research is correct) the squad was so God awful that only Adie Mike and Martin Pemberton ever played another FL game.

From a very quick look at the results in some of our historically bad seasons, the worst runs of form I can find (on 3 points for a win) are 5 points from 18 games and 6 from 23 games in the record-breaking 1904/05 season (P34 W3 D2 L29).

We drew the 17th game of 97/98.

So if we lose on Thursday, we'll have matched the very worst run of form of the side comprising Lee Warren, Mark Weaver's 16 stone mate from the Stockport Sunday League and the Moss Side Mafia.

It really, really doesn't get much worse than this.

Phew...

Third time in 5 seasons that Rovers have had runs like this. Wellens and McSheffrey,  then Schofield presided over spells of 9 points from 16 games.

Did we continue their employment after those terrible runs?

[belton rover]

This is a great example of how stats alone can be very misleading. Billy’s stats are factual and can’t be argued. BUT, that is where the comparisons with the other two quoted runs end.

[The Red Baron]

I can only think of two worse runs of league form in the 50-odd years I've been supporting us, than the current 6 points from 16 games.

Game 26-41 in 2015/16. 4 points from 16 games as we  succumbed to relegation in the most spineless manner. We won the 17th game.

First 16 games of 97/98. 5 draws from 16 games. We didn't have another run as bad as that even in that season. In the final 16 games we managed 8 points. Even though (if my research is correct) the squad was so God awful that only Adie Mike and Martin Pemberton ever played another FL game.

From a very quick look at the results in some of our historically bad seasons, the worst runs of form I can find (on 3 points for a win) are 5 points from 18 games and 6 from 23 games in the record-breaking 1904/05 season (P34 W3 D2 L29).

We drew the 17th game of 97/98.

So if we lose on Thursday, we'll have matched the very worst run of form of the side comprising Lee Warren, Mark Weaver's 16 stone mate from the Stockport Sunday League and the Moss Side Mafia.

It really, really doesn't get much worse than this.

I've never quite understood how those 2015-16 results didn"t see Darren Ferguson get his P45. Yes, he got us promoted the following season, although we finished third in a one-horse race.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is a great example of how stats alone can be very misleading. Billy’s stats are factual and can’t be argued. BUT, that is where the comparisons with the other two quoted runs end.

Bit of a misunderstanding there Belton if I may say so.

Statistics are statistics. They are facts.

They themselves don't "lead" or "mislead".  It's entirely up to you what conclusions you draw. But if you are going to draw sensible conclusions, you need to be prepared to look at all the relevant facts.

As I said in this thread, of course we haven't been playing remotely as badly as we did in 97/98. And the squad, man for man, are self evidently not remotely as bad as the 97/98 one.

But it's a fact that we have come to a hair's breadth of having a similar statistical record as the very worst that squad achieved.

Me, I think that's been worth reflecting on, because that really should not be happening with this squad.

For the record, I do think there has been a stronger parallel with 15/16. A squad with a lot of strengths, but some glaring deficiencies, going out week after week in a similar set up and getting turned over in similar ways. Poor loan signings making us worse rather than better.

[belton rover]

This is a great example of how stats alone can be very misleading. Billy’s stats are factual and can’t be argued. BUT, that is where the comparisons with the other two quoted runs end.

Bit of a misunderstanding there Belton if I may say so.

Statistics are statistics. They are facts.

They themselves don't "lead" or "mislead".  It's entirely up to you what conclusions you draw. But if you are going to draw sensible conclusions, you need to be prepared to look at all the relevant facts.

As I said in this thread, of course we haven't been playing remotely as badly as we did in 97/98. And the squad, man for man, are self evidently not remotely as bad as the 97/98 one.

But it's a fact that we have come to a hair's breadth of having a similar statistical record as the very worst that squad achieved.

Me, I think that's been worth reflecting on, because that really should not be happening with this squad.

For the record, I do think there has been a stronger parallel with 15/16. A squad with a lot of strengths, but some glaring deficiencies, going out week after week in a similar set up and getting turned over in similar ways. Poor loan signings making us worse rather than better.

I said in my previous post that the stats in question can’t be denied. You’ve added context and opinion since which changes things significantly, and I pretty much agree with all you’ve said.

If you showed those stats to someone who knew nothing about Doncaster Rovers or football generally, what conclusions do you think they’d make about the three teams? If it was me, I’d be thinking there was little difference between the Doncaster Rovers of 97/98, 15/16 or 25/26.

This is why I hate statistics as much as you love them.

[Usher wide.]

BST & GazLaz get themselves ‘relaxed’ & happily asleep on the back of their statistics.

Do either of them see us staying in this division this season?

I dunno if either does either.

Smoke & mirrors a lot of the time seems to me, especially from the one who sees himself as above those who dare to look up at ‘his gaze’. I’m sure he must have read the ‘Ragged Trousered Philanthropists’ so he knows where I’m coming from.

Let’s see how the recruitment goes for January before I offer either or both a ‘bet’ for where we’ll finish this season.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Odd how some folk get so riled about facts.

That's not you by the way Belton.

[Ryaldinhio]

Odd how some folk get so riled about facts.

That's not you by the way Belton.

'Odd' how 'some' people get 'riled' by 'facts' 

 

[ForsolongaRover]

This is a great example of how stats alone can be very misleading. Billy’s stats are factual and can’t be argued. BUT, that is where the comparisons with the other two quoted runs end.

Bit of a misunderstanding there Belton if I may say so.

Statistics are statistics. They are facts.

They themselves don't "lead" or "mislead".  It's entirely up to you what conclusions you draw. But if you are going to draw sensible conclusions, you need to be prepared to look at all the relevant facts.

As I said in this thread, of course we haven't been playing remotely as badly as we did in 97/98. And the squad, man for man, are self evidently not remotely as bad as the 97/98 one.

But it's a fact that we have come to a hair's breadth of having a similar statistical record as the very worst that squad achieved.

Me, I think that's been worth reflecting on, because that really should not be happening with this squad.

For the record, I do think there has been a stronger parallel with 15/16. A squad with a lot of strengths, but some glaring deficiencies, going out week after week in a similar set up and getting turned over in similar ways. Poor loan signings making us worse rather than better.

I said in my previous post that the stats in question can’t be denied. You’ve added context and opinion since which changes things significantly, and I pretty much agree with all you’ve said.

If you showed those stats to someone who knew nothing about Doncaster Rovers or football generally, what conclusions do you think they’d make about the three teams? If it was me, I’d be thinking there was little difference between the Doncaster Rovers of 97/98, 15/16 or 25/26.

This is why I hate statistics as much as you love them.

Missed chances happen, but have we conceded more of our ration of soft goals? Would it not be reasonable to suggest that TLT’s numerous errors suggest that he is not a goalkeeper of average League 1 competence. You could say that this is illustrated by the goals we have been denied by great stops by opposition keepers. It cannot be denied that we have had points “stolen” from us thus worsening the record.