Our defence

[phil o sophical]

Unless there is a drastic change the best we can hope for is the teams below are worse than us for the rest of the season

[sedwardsdrfc]

We looked better back there in those games where Bailey started there. I know he’s scored goals and is important for us further up the pitch but centre back is such an important position to neglect like this.

I honestly can’t fathom how we’ve got through Jan and McGarth is a 1st choice centre back. He’s young and hopefully comes good but it’s a very big and probably dumb risk when we’re trying to stay up

[EasyforDennis]

Nothing I see suggests to me that we’ve got a budget for a L1/L2 yo-yo. He’s been allowed tons of signings and a very large squad. I think we can just stay up still but he’s been given the funds to comfortably stay up.

He obviously hasn't though has he? We have had to make do with teenagers from Premier clubs on loan and cast offs who nobody else wanted.
Sorry to be negative but thats my view, having seen the good and bad times following Rovers for almost 70 years.

[In the box]

"the manner and the softness of the two goals"

"we've conceeded two sloppy goals, off a long throw that we don't get out to the cross, and a free kick that goes straight in"

"it's something we need to work on and go back to the training ground"

McCann.

Not much else he could say .A predictable shoreline based on how we concede goals and seldom find away back into games . It’s a matter of getting over the line with enough points to start again . McCann isn’t to blame for the seasons outcome but a bit more honesty as to why he even through he could say that we could compete from the outset . We are nearly back to where the team was before January on the pitch and results indicate that something has to improve upfront if L2 isn’t to be our next destination!!

[GazLaz]

Nothing I see suggests to me that we’ve got a budget for a L1/L2 yo-yo. He’s been allowed tons of signings and a very large squad. I think we can just stay up still but he’s been given the funds to comfortably stay up.

He obviously hasn't though has he? We have had to make do with teenagers from Premier clubs on loan and cast offs who nobody else wanted.
Sorry to be negative but thats my view, having seen the good and bad times following Rovers for almost 70 years.

We signed Elliot Lee in January. He’s a proper player. Money was there.

[Rupee92ONLY]

Nothing I see suggests to me that we’ve got a budget for a L1/L2 yo-yo. He’s been allowed tons of signings and a very large squad. I think we can just stay up still but he’s been given the funds to comfortably stay up.

He obviously hasn't though has he? We have had to make do with teenagers from Premier clubs on loan and cast offs who nobody else wanted.
Sorry to be negative but thats my view, having seen the good and bad times following Rovers for almost 70 years.

Maybe if he didn’t decide to use it on quantity over quality it would be easier to see. Aside from Ajayi our loanees have obviously been more expensive than previous years too.

It has been said by the VSC themselves that the budget (I’m guessing wage bill) was around 14th in the division. If that’s before January then it’ll be even higher now.

McCann has had every chance to build a squad to look better than what we’ve seen this season*.


*I thought we largely played well today.

[Padge_DRFC]

Pearson signing is a crime and more so 2 year deal

[Chris Black come back]

You can take whatever view you want on Pearson but he will be on good wages and yet McCann himself clearly isn’t convinced. He signed him and doesn’t often start him. That’s crazy.

[GazLaz]

You can take whatever view you want on Pearson but he will be on good wages and yet McCann himself clearly isn’t convinced. He signed him and doesn’t often start him. That’s crazy.

Same with Middleton, Hanlan and Hakeeb. Doesn’t really fancy any of them. Took Gotts half a season to get going after being deployed in a suitable position by chance. Gibson was signed the summer then disappeared out of the team for a long spell.

[5minstogo]

Byrne, Pearson and McGrath as a three is horrible.

I do quite like that shape for the front 7 players but not for the back three. Bailey, Byrne, Senior would be better. If you are playing Bailey as a deep midfielder you may as well have him in that back three.

Reckon you are on to something there. Mobile players on either side of the main defender.

[GazLaz]

Byrne, Pearson and McGrath as a three is horrible.

I do quite like that shape for the front 7 players but not for the back three. Bailey, Byrne, Senior would be better. If you are playing Bailey as a deep midfielder you may as well have him in that back three.

Reckon you are on to something there. Mobile players on either side of the main defender.

Any centre half can’t play outside in a 3. It’s a completely specialist position. Occupy different spaces, have to make different decisions. You could tell Byrne had played there before even though he’s not very good at it. You need pace in there as well and those three today are whatever the opposite of pace is. I’m not desperate to criticise the shape as a whole because we get Lee into the team playing that way and still have Gotts, Bailey and Clifton to graft, but the back three needs thought.

[mpc123]

Ok lets take it back to the super hero hindsight fans. You all slagged off Byrne before he had kicked a ball.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Its football, every club has the same problems, Byrne was rubbish at Bradford (apparently) played very well here. Vice versa on ourcurrent players. It happens. Mccann has no hindsight and cant control his budget compared to the rest of the league and player form.

We would be a nightmare and probably in non league without Mccann. He would have been part of why more money has been put in too,regarding trust.

So think about that and we are not far off where we should be for this league, semi final of a cup (nearly wembley) and played spurs away in the cup and fa cup 3rd round southampton at home unlucky not to be in the 4th round
 What the hell is wrong with you lot? What do you want? Because if it is more than what we have had this season all round for our first season back in league one, you are supporting the wrong club, go and support Wednesday, they have massive support, a massive budget.... oh wait there........

[selby]

  if we do go down we could well have statistically one of the best young defenders in the division this season playing in a poor side, and a great prospect in Flint who has shone when given a chance with the first team in two preseasons and in the EFL cup we recruit other premiership u21s from.
  There again we could let them go at the end of the season knowing our talent recognition team, and regret it later as supporters.

[GazLaz]

Ok lets take it back to thr super hero hindsight fans. You all slagged off Byrne before he had kicked a ball.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Its football, every club has the same problems, Byrne was rubbish at Bradfird (apparently) played very well here. Vice versa on ourcurrent players. It happens. Mccann has no hindsight and cant control his budget compared to the rest of the league and player form.

We would be a nightmare and probably in non league without Mccann. He would have been part of why more money has been put in too,regarding trust.

So think about that and we are not far off where we should be for this league, semi final of a cup (nearly wembley) and played spurs away in the cup and fa cup 3rd round southampton at home unlucky not to be in the 4th round
 What the hell is wrong with you lot? What do you want? Because if it is more than what we have had this season all round for our first season back in league one, you are supporting the wrong club, go and support Wednesday, they have massive support, a massive budget.... oh wait there........

We’ve conceded more goals per game with Byrne in the team than without him in the team by the way.

[mpc123]

Ok lets take it back to thr super hero hindsight fans. You all slagged off Byrne before he had kicked a ball.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Its football, every club has the same problems, Byrne was rubbish at Bradfird (apparently) played very well here. Vice versa on ourcurrent players. It happens. Mccann has no hindsight and cant control his budget compared to the rest of the league and player form.

We would be a nightmare and probably in non league without Mccann. He would have been part of why more money has been put in too,regarding trust.

So think about that and we are not far off where we should be for this league, semi final of a cup (nearly wembley) and played spurs away in the cup and fa cup 3rd round southampton at home unlucky not to be in the 4th round
 What the hell is wrong with you lot? What do you want? Because if it is more than what we have had this season all round for our first season back in league one, you are supporting the wrong club, go and support Wednesday, they have massive support, a massive budget.... oh wait there........

We’ve conceded more goals per game with Byrne in the team than without him in the team by the way.

Agreed, yet he has played well.

[Rupee92ONLY]

If he’s played well (I agree personally, he’s been best defender since arriving) then why are we conceding so many still and from set pieces as we are?

I’ve said this before but we aren’t Grant McCann FC. The way some go on it’s like nobody could’ve achieved in L2 what he did. That’s just not true is it? It was job done and that’s buzzing. This season is all that matters now and so far I think he’s let us down. I think we’ll stay up so it’ll be job done there too but it’s a serious league this and massive for us financially so we’d be stupid if the club aren’t taking a serious look at everything regards McCann this season.

I’m basing that on his poor utilisation of the budget, recruitment record and things like his strange/poor substitutions and defensive frailties, especially when it comes to balls in the box. Those sorts of things are on the coaching.

Much bigger and successful clubs than us have made decisions on managers that havent particularly failed and looked harsh from the outside but been completely vindicated in the end. We’ve gotta be on the ball as a club. Very disappointed that every game seems to play out in much the same way, no matter the formation or the personnel.

It’s fine to say this as well. You don’t have to get arse on and start talking words like ungrateful because somebody has doubted Grant McCann. We all support Doncaster Rovers and we all want to see success and get excited.

[Reg of the Rovers]

If he’s played well (I agree personally, he’s been best defender since arriving) then why are we conceding so many still and from set pieces as we are?

I’ve said this before but we aren’t Grant McCann FC. The way some go on it’s like nobody could’ve achieved in L2 what he did. That’s just not true is it? It was job done and that’s buzzing. This season is all that matters now and so far I think he’s let us down. I think we’ll stay up so it’ll be job done there too but it’s a serious league this and massive for us financially so we’d be stupid if the club aren’t taking a serious look at everything regards McCann this season.

I’m basing that on his poor utilisation of the budget, recruitment record and things like his strange/poor substitutions and defensive frailties, especially when it comes to balls in the box. Those sorts of things are on the coaching.

Much bigger and successful clubs than us have made decisions on managers that havent particularly failed and looked harsh from the outside but been completely vindicated in the end. We’ve gotta be on the ball as a club. Very disappointed that every game seems to play out in much the same way, no matter the formation or the personnel.

It’s fine to say this as well. You don’t have to get arse on and start talking words like ungrateful because somebody has doubted Grant McCann. We all support Doncaster Rovers and we all want to see success and get excited.

Really well put, I completely agree.

[steve@dcfd]

Our attack and midfield

15 shots today yet only 2 on target although we played well first half we only scored one goal. So you can talk about the defence but it will be the lack of goals that will keep us in our position or lower.

[mpc123]

If he’s played well (I agree personally, he’s been best defender since arriving) then why are we conceding so many still and from set pieces as we are?

I’ve said this before but we aren’t Grant McCann FC. The way some go on it’s like nobody could’ve achieved in L2 what he did. That’s just not true is it? It was job done and that’s buzzing. This season is all that matters now and so far I think he’s let us down. I think we’ll stay up so it’ll be job done there too but it’s a serious league this and massive for us financially so we’d be stupid if the club aren’t taking a serious look at everything regards McCann this season.

I’m basing that on his poor utilisation of the budget, recruitment record and things like his strange/poor substitutions and defensive frailties, especially when it comes to balls in the box. Those sorts of things are on the coaching.

Much bigger and successful clubs than us have made decisions on managers that havent particularly failed and looked harsh from the outside but been completely vindicated in the end. We’ve gotta be on the ball as a club. Very disappointed that every game seems to play out in much the same way, no matter the formation or the personnel.

It’s fine to say this as well. You don’t have to get arse on and start talking words like ungrateful because somebody has doubted Grant McCann. We all support Doncaster Rovers and we all want to see success and get excited.

I agree with elements of it. Now think one step on.

The business decision to get rid of Mccann and his team just on a "he cant be the only one to do it" decision.

The cost of that against next years budget. It would all come back to Terry saying yes to even further funding to just stay where we are.

Terry is shrewd and obviously bought into a longer term plan with Mccann, until that totally breaks then it is a 50/50 decision on if it works or not.

Thats why my decision is Mccann, not only do I like him and trust him as a manager, but the next stage is a major risk and could mean even worse, many clubs also end up with that same problem, a few of our neighbours included.

It is so easy to stand from afar and watch parts of the game unfold and pick parts out of it, its the easiest job in the world, yet being there and making the decisions pre or in the moment are the most difficult. Us as fans dont have to live or die by our decisions we can just pick off the next one and thats exactly what happens.

[In the box]

It’s clear that if you don’t prepare for the next challenge with the right attitude and capabilities, you end up making up for those continually. Our lack of striking options was just the start and our  loans  were supposed to aid this but nearly all failed to lift the team’s effectiveness going forward . January came and went and improved the teams effectiveness but still the goals didn’t come. A more pragmatic approach is required to keep picking up points home or away and just get over the line to remain in L1 and sort out what went wrong on the recruitment side and start to build for a couple of seasons ahead , before we start talking about challenging for promotion.

[selby]

  I said on here if you check, I would hope for a couple of cup runs and just avoiding relegation a good season, and if we had a couple of cup runs and finished mid table we would have had a great season.
  Our squad at the start of the season screamed out all round not good enough for any better as we had leaned heavily on our experienced defenders past their best but better than others here and some good loan players who came off in the run in to last season.
  Anderson and Wood left, the keeper left, and the successful striker went,  plus we made a big mistake just a few days in to preseason training and farmed our two most promising defenders out on loan as quick as possible for a few quid and a quick buck, makes you wonder why other teams wanted them and not anyone else?
  Absolutely horrendous thinking by the management, and only the two central defender loans that have come in have been up to scratch, but can't do anything about the players we have around them that are not good enough.
  The signings of McCann jnr, Robinson and Grehan of no immediate use as they are miles off what we need, and one loan signing who looked decent up front has done the usual thing that seems to follow players in that position from Spurs and is out for the rest of the season.
  It would take somebody with the imagination of Jeffrey Archer to make it up.

[Thorney]

  I said on here if you check, I would hope for a couple of cup runs and just avoiding relegation a good season, and if we had a couple of cup runs and finished mid table we would have had a great season.
  Our squad at the start of the season screamed out all round not good enough for any better as we had leaned heavily on our experienced defenders past their best but better than others here and some good loan players who came off in the run in to last season.
  Anderson and Wood left, the keeper left, and the successful striker went,  plus we made a big mistake just a few days in to preseason training and farmed our two most promising defenders out on loan as quick as possible for a few quid and a quick buck, makes you wonder why other teams wanted them and not anyone else?
  Absolutely horrendous thinking by the management, and only the two central defender loans that have come in have been up to scratch, but can't do anything about the players we have around them that are not good enough.
  The signings of McCann jnr, Robinson and Grehan of no immediate use as they are miles off what we need, and one loan signing who looked decent up front has done the usual thing that seems to follow players in that position from Spurs and is out for the rest of the season.
  It would take somebody with the imagination of Jeffrey Archer to make it up.

Sorry selby.

Yes the defence as been in large woeful,

But.

Flint and Faulkner would not have put us mid table.

Flint is playing well below this level and bobby has been part of a defence that sit towards the bottom of the league below.
If he aint cutting it in league 2 how the hell would he do it in league 1?

Jay was good in title winning team last year but has struggled with the step up in quality.

[NickDRFC]

  I said on here if you check, I would hope for a couple of cup runs and just avoiding relegation a good season, and if we had a couple of cup runs and finished mid table we would have had a great season.
  Our squad at the start of the season screamed out all round not good enough for any better as we had leaned heavily on our experienced defenders past their best but better than others here and some good loan players who came off in the run in to last season.
  Anderson and Wood left, the keeper left, and the successful striker went,  plus we made a big mistake just a few days in to preseason training and farmed our two most promising defenders out on loan as quick as possible for a few quid and a quick buck, makes you wonder why other teams wanted them and not anyone else?
  Absolutely horrendous thinking by the management, and only the two central defender loans that have come in have been up to scratch, but can't do anything about the players we have around them that are not good enough.
  The signings of McCann jnr, Robinson and Grehan of no immediate use as they are miles off what we need, and one loan signing who looked decent up front has done the usual thing that seems to follow players in that position from Spurs and is out for the rest of the season.
  It would take somebody with the imagination of Jeffrey Archer to make it up.

Wasn’t Will Flint’s first loan terminated?

[selby]

  Glad you brought that up Thorney as Bobby had a great loan up to getting injured and statistically was up there in the top defenders in the division despite having to earn his place and missing the first six games of the season and when he got injured Harrogate were not in the relegation places and had reached the knock out stages of the EFL cup.
 Since he went back Harrogate have recruited well in the transfer window and went on a 5 game unbeaten run until Saturday at MK Dons.
  In that unbeaten run Bobby came on in three games 2 they won drew against Bromley the top in the division  beat Cambridge second in the division and Barrow away they could not afford to lose to, and he was brought on to firm up the results at important times yesterday they lost to MK Dons and he came on with the the score already losing 4-1 and in danger of losing more heavily.
  His total time in those four games is 108 minutes and Harrogate have not conceded a goal in the time he has been on the field of play.
  The manager has rightly stuck with a winning team after a long run of defeats something Bobby has appreciated and has just gone about his business training well and supporting the players who owned the shirt and will take his chance when it comes along which after the defeat could be quite soon, and as things have worked out in those cameos because he was fire fighting for points for his loan club and him being him always involved his stats which a lot in football look at are really outstanding and up there and attracting attention, and he couldn't be in a better place.
 

[Thorney]

Saying they wernt in the relegation spots is a bit desperate.
They were 1 point above it. The defenders currently at our club which you are very critical of are 3 points above the relegation spots but in a much tougher league.

When bobby made his first start for harrogate they were 14th with a -1 goal difference

When he got this injury they were 21st with a -9 goal difference.

So try and spin stats all.you want. He is very much part of the reason why harrogate are staring at non-league.

[Ian Nimmo]

Ok lets take it back to thr super hero hindsight fans. You all slagged off Byrne before he had kicked a ball.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Its football, every club has the same problems, Byrne was rubbish at Bradfird (apparently) played very well here. Vice versa on ourcurrent players. It happens. Mccann has no hindsight and cant control his budget compared to the rest of the league and player form.

We would be a nightmare and probably in non league without Mccann. He would have been part of why more money has been put in too,regarding trust.

So think about that and we are not far off where we should be for this league, semi final of a cup (nearly wembley) and played spurs away in the cup and fa cup 3rd round southampton at home unlucky not to be in the 4th round
 What the hell is wrong with you lot? What do you want? Because if it is more than what we have had this season all round for our first season back in league one, you are supporting the wrong club, go and support Wednesday, they have massive support, a massive budget.... oh wait there........

We’ve conceded more goals per game with Byrne in the team than without him in the team by the way.

Agreed, yet he has played well.

Yes but he was clearly at fault for their winner yesterday.

[selby]

  Harrogate have recruited well in the last window, Heffernan from Newcastle, Slater on loan from Brighton, and Grey a keeper from Ipswich are three young players with the potential for added value and financial gain and all play in areas we were trying to strengthen.
  For the bottom of the league team their talent identification team has done a good job when you add Smith and Faulkner who are starting out and will go on to have a professional career they are really good captures with a lot of potential and could well keep Harrogate up, and possibly make them money.

[Rupee92ONLY]

Harrogate will get relegated.

[Thorney]

Give over selby.

Talent identification done well????

They are bottom of league 2 with a goal difference of -30

Just got thumped 4-1 with the players you have just mentioned.

But Kudos, excellent recruitment.

And smith is a 23yr old forward who has scored 1 goal in 36 league 2 games this season. He aint gonna make money.

[GazLaz]

Give over selby.

Talent identification done well????

They are bottom of league 2 with a goal difference of -30

Just got thumped 4-1 with the players you have just mentioned.

But Kudos, excellent recruitment.

And smith is a 23yr old forward who has scored 1 goal in 36 league 2 games this season. He aint gonna make money.

Smith is decent to be fair!