Coffee with Lee Glover

[Blue Green Algae]

Just watched the club's 'Coffee With: Lee Glover' video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8avWlcBZcXc

Comes across as fairly old school in his outlook on recruitment, valuing knowing someone and seeing a player in the flesh over data driven recruitment. He does mention we're trying to use data more, but I'm not convinced he's really buying into it as much as clubs like Grimsby and Hearts have done.

[Nudga]

He isn't buying into it and we will get left behind, if we haven't already.
I've noticed Grant mentioning other clubs budgets in every recent interview so it baffles me why they haven't got on board with this sooner.

[Rupee92ONLY]

He needs to leave in the summer and if Grant doesn’t like that it is tough. Seems a decent bloke who you’d have a pint with but he shouldn’t have done that interview as it’s shown more publicly that he’s not going to move from his preferred methods.

You can’t have a bloke in charge of leading a strategy he doesn’t really believe in.

We have to be ruthless with our decisions (and quicker) which we’ve always struggled with. I think we will be.

[GazLaz]

He isn't buying into it and we will get left behind, if we haven't already.
I've noticed Grant mentioning other clubs budgets in every recent interview so it baffles me why they haven't got on board with this sooner.

We certainly can’t control other teams, budgets it’s just about maximising our own.


A team can have a £10m but only be running at 80% efficiency to money spent. They can have low player availability due to inefficiencies in the medical department and all of a sudden that £10m budget is returning £6 or 7m worth of value.

Conversely you can have a £5m wage bill, have it running 120% efficiently, be maximising player availability (vs league average) and it looks like a £6.5-7m budget.

You have to find a way to find an edge over what other people are doing. All clubs are wanting the same end goal, how do you try and achieve it more efficiently and smartly than the rest.

The answer to that last paragraph isn’t just “data” by the way. There are many different ways for a 3rd division club to build a model that can result in over performing a budget.

[Lesonthewest]

Just watched the club's 'Coffee With: Lee Glover' video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8avWlcBZcXc

Comes across as fairly old school in his outlook on recruitment, valuing knowing someone and seeing a player in the flesh over data driven recruitment. He does mention we're trying to use data more, but I'm not convinced he's really buying into it as much as clubs like Grimsby and Hearts have done.

Me neither, seems a decent guy, but doesn't seem very driven in his role to me, or very forward thinking to including ALL aspects of the recruitment process.

[drfcsteve]

What exactly qualifies Glover to be a head of recruitment? Apart from being McCann’s mate?

[DonnyOsmond]

All for meeting the players, and getting reports on what they're like etc, but we're stuck in the 90/00s when it comes to recruitment... Unsure if we tried when Copps was HoFO, and making comments on players being data led recruited... But we didn't accept we made mistakes and we'll learn from that, we just decided to go backwards a decade.

It isn't all about data, there's many facets for recruitment but you at least have to sign someone who fits into the way you want to play, and I don't believe Middleton, Hanlan and a few others are those kinds of players that fit into a McCann team.

But yeah, based on what people like Glover and McCann say we'll sign a deal with someone like StatsBomb for a fair bit of money then carry on doing the same recruitment as before, which obviously was very successful in the Summer.

[MachoMadness]

There's data and then there's data though. Like everything, using it the right way is the valuable skill. Just looking at a player's goals and assists is using data, but anyone can do that. So just saying we're "using data" is pretty meaningless. How are we using it is the question.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There's data and then there's data though. Like everything, using it the right way is the valuable skill. Just looking at a player's goals and assists is using data, but anyone can do that. So just saying we're "using data" is pretty meaningless. How are we using it is the question.

Agree. Data doesn't make contact with players agents and negotiate deals. Once players are identified, it's about people persuading people and money.

Whilst I agree Glover might come across as old school, he's working within the parameters set by McCann, who takes responsibility for the final say. Without access to those recruitment meetings, we will never know how much of a part data plays. It's quite likely we don't always get our prime targets so even with data, there has to be compromises.

It's funny but the clubs who generally make the best of data led recruitment also have large pots of money to call upon.

On the other hand, Wrexham have thrown money at attracting a higher class of player based on their known abilities. This seems more old school than a scientific approach.   

[Rupee92ONLY]

Putting the data talk aside…

This summer will be our biggest budget in a long, long time and we are very likely to be receiving £1M+ for (at least) 1 player.

Would you trust Lee Glover as the man to oversee that?

It’s a summer that doesn’t come around very often for a club of our size. It is HUGE and therefore we have practically zero margin for mistake.

[GazLaz]

There's data and then there's data though. Like everything, using it the right way is the valuable skill. Just looking at a player's goals and assists is using data, but anyone can do that. So just saying we're "using data" is pretty meaningless. How are we using it is the question.

Agree. Data doesn't make contact with players agents and negotiate deals. Once players are identified, it's about people persuading people and money.

Whilst I agree Glover might come across as old school, he's working within the parameters set by McCann, who takes responsibility for the final say. Without access to those recruitment meetings, we will never know how much of a part data plays. It's quite likely we don't always get our prime targets so even with data, there has to be compromises.

It's funny but the clubs who generally make the best of data led recruitment also have large pots of money to call upon.

On the other hand, Wrexham have thrown money at attracting a higher class of player based on their known abilities. This seems more old school than a scientific approach.   

It’s not necessarily about the outcomes (well it ultimately is obviously) but consistency of decision making that doesn’t rely on the opinion of one or two people. Grants doing ok but he won’t be here forever will he. May be gone in 5 years, 1 year or 3 months, who knows. What’s the decision making process then?

[GazLaz]

Putting the data talk aside…

This summer will be our biggest budget in a long, long time and we are very likely to be receiving £1M+ for (at least) 1 player.

Would you trust Lee Glover as the man to oversee that?

It’s a summer that doesn’t come around very often for a club of our size. It is HUGE and therefore we have practically zero margin for mistake.

Do you really think we will sell Bailey in the summer? Who would the other player be?

[Rupee92ONLY]

Putting the data talk aside…

This summer will be our biggest budget in a long, long time and we are very likely to be receiving £1M+ for (at least) 1 player.

Would you trust Lee Glover as the man to oversee that?

It’s a summer that doesn’t come around very often for a club of our size. It is HUGE and therefore we have practically zero margin for mistake.

Do you really think we will sell Bailey in the summer? Who would the other player be?

Pretty sure we will. Tbh no player has earned that move more either and it’s his last chance to get that move surely? Just hope we are strong on price.

Molyneux the other possible but could see him staying as others won’t rate him as expensive as we do. He’s the wrong side of 24, not blistering pace, can be taken out of a game a bit easily at times but decent goals return and clearly a good player. Someone could take a chance.

He's not a million pound player but someone like Huddersfield overspending again wouldn’t surprise me.
 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

There's data and then there's data though. Like everything, using it the right way is the valuable skill. Just looking at a player's goals and assists is using data, but anyone can do that. So just saying we're "using data" is pretty meaningless. How are we using it is the question.

Agree. Data doesn't make contact with players agents and negotiate deals. Once players are identified, it's about people persuading people and money.

Whilst I agree Glover might come across as old school, he's working within the parameters set by McCann, who takes responsibility for the final say. Without access to those recruitment meetings, we will never know how much of a part data plays. It's quite likely we don't always get our prime targets so even with data, there has to be compromises.

It's funny but the clubs who generally make the best of data led recruitment also have large pots of money to call upon.

On the other hand, Wrexham have thrown money at attracting a higher class of player based on their known abilities. This seems more old school than a scientific approach.   

It’s not necessarily about the outcomes (well it ultimately is obviously) but consistency of decision making that doesn’t rely on the opinion of one or two people. Grants doing ok but he won’t be here forever will he. May be gone in 5 years, 1 year or 3 months, who knows. What’s the decision making process then?

Yes, and then we're back to the old debate about manager v head coach with Director of Football.

McCanns worked in both systems. I'm guessing he prefers the involvement in recruitment and taking overall responsibility.

There's no right or wrong way. We should remind ourselves we won the title last season with people on the outside admiring our recruitment.

[GazLaz]

Putting the data talk aside…

This summer will be our biggest budget in a long, long time and we are very likely to be receiving £1M+ for (at least) 1 player.

Would you trust Lee Glover as the man to oversee that?

It’s a summer that doesn’t come around very often for a club of our size. It is HUGE and therefore we have practically zero margin for mistake.

Do you really think we will sell Bailey in the summer? Who would the other player be?

Pretty sure we will. Tbh no player has earned that move more either and it’s his last chance to get that move surely? Just hope we are strong on price.

Molyneux the other possible but could see him staying as others won’t rate him as expensive as we do. He’s the wrong side of 24, not blistering pace, can be taken out of a game a bit easily at times but decent goals return and clearly a good player. Someone could take a chance.

He's not a million pound player but someone like Huddersfield overspending again wouldn’t surprise me.
 

I love Bailey but he’s 28 next season. I’d be very surprised if anyone paid £1m+ for him at that age. Especially after him having serious injuries as a younger player.

Part of me thinks he deserves a move to set himself up financially. Would a club outlay a million quid and another million quid over three years on him though? £650k per year on one player is a lot of money for what they are likely to get back. Impossible to be value for a championship/ top end L1 team.


Hopefully he stays and has a go at promotion with us next season.

[selby]

  Its alright having the players signed the fact is then you have to pick the best of them to play, We haven't always done that this season. Pearson for instance just lately, it all goes out of the window if the manager doesn't fancy them.
  And it makes me wonder just how some of our other signings and squad would come out in such a system. Or if we will even apply it to our present squad, which we should if you want nothing but the best.

[ncRover]

I do believe in data, but in terms of going absolutely all in on it I’m not sure. It has to be done right. And if we reach saturation point where everybody uses similar practices then it just goes back to contacts in the game and budgets giving you the edge doesn’t it?

Have I missed the part where Grimsby have done anything special this season and last? 9th last season and only just in the playoffs-offs now. Who are their data signing big successes they are selling on for profit?

Let also not forget Sheffield United’s ill-fated and short-lived data AI led approach at the start of this season.

[ncRover]

Putting the data talk aside…

This summer will be our biggest budget in a long, long time and we are very likely to be receiving £1M+ for (at least) 1 player.

Would you trust Lee Glover as the man to oversee that?

It’s a summer that doesn’t come around very often for a club of our size. It is HUGE and therefore we have practically zero margin for mistake.

Do you really think we will sell Bailey in the summer? Who would the other player be?

Pretty sure we will. Tbh no player has earned that move more either and it’s his last chance to get that move surely? Just hope we are strong on price.

Molyneux the other possible but could see him staying as others won’t rate him as expensive as we do. He’s the wrong side of 24, not blistering pace, can be taken out of a game a bit easily at times but decent goals return and clearly a good player. Someone could take a chance.

He's not a million pound player but someone like Huddersfield overspending again wouldn’t surprise me.
 

I love Bailey but he’s 28 next season. I’d be very surprised if anyone paid £1m+ for him at that age. Especially after him having serious injuries as a younger player.

Part of me thinks he deserves a move to set himself up financially. Would a club outlay a million quid and another million quid over three years on him though? £650k per year on one player is a lot of money for what they are likely to get back. Impossible to be value for a championship/ top end L1 team.


Hopefully he stays and has a go at promotion with us next season.

Harvey Knibbs. Central midfielder. Reading to Charlton in the summer. £1.8m fee.

- Aged 26 at the time
- Had 1 year left on his Reading deal.
- 43 apps 14 goals 6 assists in 2024/25 L1 season.

[GazLaz]

I do believe in data, but in terms of going absolutely all in on it I’m not sure. It has to be done right. And if we reach saturation point where everybody uses similar practices then it just goes back to contacts in the game and budgets giving you the edge doesn’t it?

Have I missed the part where Grimsby have done anything special this season and last? 9th last season and only just in the playoffs-offs now. Who are their data signing big successes they are selling on for profit?

Let also not forget Sheffield United’s ill-fated and short-lived data AI led approach at the start of this season.

Grimsby have been the 4th or 5th best team in L1. Fairly sure they haven’t got the 4th or 5th highest budget. Pretty much all you can hole to do, over reach the money you spend. They were around the relegation places in L2 before they changed their model.

[i_ateallthepies]

There are characteristics within each player that contribute significantly to their effectiveness on the pitch.  Characteristics like attitude to compete and succeed, ability to bond with team and to play for the team not the self, self belief and the ability to continue battling when things aren't going well, positional intelligence (which perhaps may be a measurable metric).  These are important details which need the ability of a person to measure and which metrics will be much less able to do.

[Rupee92ONLY]

Putting the data talk aside…

This summer will be our biggest budget in a long, long time and we are very likely to be receiving £1M+ for (at least) 1 player.

Would you trust Lee Glover as the man to oversee that?

It’s a summer that doesn’t come around very often for a club of our size. It is HUGE and therefore we have practically zero margin for mistake.

Do you really think we will sell Bailey in the summer? Who would the other player be?

Pretty sure we will. Tbh no player has earned that move more either and it’s his last chance to get that move surely? Just hope we are strong on price.

Molyneux the other possible but could see him staying as others won’t rate him as expensive as we do. He’s the wrong side of 24, not blistering pace, can be taken out of a game a bit easily at times but decent goals return and clearly a good player. Someone could take a chance.

He's not a million pound player but someone like Huddersfield overspending again wouldn’t surprise me.
 

I love Bailey but he’s 28 next season. I’d be very surprised if anyone paid £1m+ for him at that age. Especially after him having serious injuries as a younger player.

Part of me thinks he deserves a move to set himself up financially. Would a club outlay a million quid and another million quid over three years on him though? £650k per year on one player is a lot of money for what they are likely to get back. Impossible to be value for a championship/ top end L1 team.


Hopefully he stays and has a go at promotion with us next season.

The injury comment is fair but he’s been an ever present for us over last few years and so his availability will be another tick in the box to those clubs looking at him.

Robust, captain/leadership, very capable in a few positions, good heading ability and added goals to his game with his position. Clearly a huge improvement. For clubs looking at that sort of player, he’s surely top of the pack. I’m not sure age is too big of an issue for that profile of player (sub 30).

Like you say though, hopefully he stays!