JET

[Lord Farquaad]

SkellowRover wrote:

So many people on here who must be amazing managers saying JET won't make it etc blah blah. He's 19 years old, which is a baby in terms of development in the game and will learn lots in the coming years. Why don't some of you so called experts get applying for the Jobs at the likes of Bristol City etc when they come up? afterall you obviously know more then Wenger whos recently gave JET a 2 year extension on his contract and has played him in the gunners first team in the past.

I reckon you would make an amazing manager skeller.

I recently applied for the Hull job, but they said one of my eyes was too similar a shape to the other, and when I spoke I seemed to have control of my lips.

Clearly, Ian Dowie was just the man they were looking for:

\"Pleashe don't be afraid\", said Dowie on his introduction to the Hull squad, \"I'm scho Schorry if my appearenche offendsch you!\"

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Exactly why he's here.  He needs to learn how to play the game.  He has ability but he's barely played in a team competitively.  He'll have good and bad days.  Plenty of players been like him and SOD can change him and improve him.  Think Woods, he wasn't great at working back and playing in the team at first, with hard work that came.

[Barmby Rover]

My first time of seeing JET live, he could become an amazing player, but needs to think a bit quicker about what is happening in the game. On one occasion the ball moves forward to Hayter, who was forced to turn and go backwards because he had not thought to make the run with hi in anticipation of being put through on goal. He is going to become a better player, but i reckon SOD needs him for another year to get him operating to Rover's standards and to Arsenal's! Are you listening Mr.Wenger?

[Filo]

I can`t believe he`s got a vote in the MoM poll!

[Filo]

thornerover94 wrote:

its obvious the lad still has much to learn but that's why hes on loan Wenger wants him to have first team football and he wants him to learn he must see Sean as the man to teach him a few things that he can use when he returns to arsenal you cant have a go at the lad he has something or he wouldn't be at arsenal in the first place, when you can do better yourself and get a contract at such a team by all means slag off who you like

Who`s slagging him off?


The fact is he was piss poor today and gave the impression he couldn`t be arsed, there`s no doubt the lad has got talent and he could go on to better things, my point is that i don`t want players on the pitch that are not going to try, today JET didn`t try, he was carried for 78 minutes, lets hope it was an off day, because on Tuesday we`ll need battlers, we can`t play against a team like Newcastle with 10 men!

[RobTheRover]

I dont think he was carried for 78 minutes today.  In the first half of the first half(!) I thought he played well and was heavily involved in the game.  The one on one with the keeper seemed to be the turning point for him, so I wonder if it played on his mind thathe tried to make sure, create a better angle, and fluffed it.  SOD should have taken him off a bit earlier in the second, but it wasnt JETs fault we were under the cosh in the 2nd half.  We seemed far too happy just to lump it forward (surely the \"Gerrit Forrad\" brigade were rubbing their hands in glee!) to clear our lines, instead of picking out our passes and playing through them as we did to good effect in the first half.  Thats the last three home games (at least) where we have dominated the first half, not got the goals our play deserved, and let teams come onto us in the second half, and it needs to be sorted.

[thornerover94]

he may have had a bad game but hes not the sort of player who chases every ball down he likes it at feet which is obvious hes not very strong in the air one of many thins which need work but moaning due to a bad game don't you ever have an off day, we all do!
hes not a work hard player possibly thinks of himself as a sort of ronaldo/berbatov sort lots of skill and a good shot just need working on just hink everyone should get off his back nobody was saying much when he scored against bristol and derby? as i say if you can do better for 80 mins shouldn't you be playing for arsenal?

[RobTheRover]

And... breathe.

[Filo]

thornerover94 wrote:

he may have had a bad game but hes not the sort of player who chases every ball down he likes it at feet which is obvious hes not very strong in the air one of many thins which need work but moaning due to a bad game don't you ever have an off day, we all do!
hes not a work hard player possibly thinks of himself as a sort of ronaldo/berbatov sort lots of skill and a good shot just need working on just hink everyone should get off his back nobody was saying much when he scored against bristol and derby? as i say if you can do better for 80 mins shouldn't you be playing for arsenal?

Nobody said much when he scored against Bristol and Derby because he had good games against them and showed a bit of effort. Yesterday, he showed no effort and 9 other outfield players shared out the graft he should have been doing, for me yesterday his performance smacked of the \"big time Charlie\" attitude. As Rob said, it`s not his fault we were under the cosh, but his laziness didn`t help the cause and SOD is as much to blame by not bringing him off 15-20 minutes earlier. A bad shift for him, lets hope he responds with a blinder against Newcastle.

[Filo]

thornerover94 wrote:

as i say if you can do better for 80 mins shouldn't you be playing for arsenal?

Nah! they don`t pay as much as Real Madrid  

[jonrover]

Interesting topic this. Copps has more bad games than good and he hasn't had half the crap written about him that this young lad has in one single thread! I wonder why that is?

People need to remember what he is, a very raw lad who is in the embryonic stage of his career. He could be anything, and I think once he learns how to use his physique to his advantage he will be one hell of a player. The fact he is inconsistent is all to do with his age. On Tuesday he could make Newcastle look like mugs and as such there could be some on here eating copious amounts of humble pie on Tuesday.

[Norfolk N Chance]

AT least when copps has bad game he tries to win balls back and tries the ugly things.
Happen to think JET produced one of the laziest performances I have ever seen, thus showing a very bad attitude and massive failings in the awareness aspects of the game.

[bobjimwilly]

Norfolk N Chance wrote:

AT least when copps has bad game he tries to win balls back and tries the ugly things.
Happen to think JET produced one of the laziest performances I have ever seen, thus showing a very bad attitude and massive failings in the awareness aspects of the game.

All down to in-experience and naivety, possibly?  

[Jonathan]

jonrover wrote:

Interesting topic this. Copps has more bad games than good and he hasn't had half the crap written about him that this young lad has in one single thread! I wonder why that is?

Because Copps doesn't have more bad games than good, it's just that when he has an off day people notice it easily as he never hides and still sees the ball more than anyone. Without wanting to jump on the bandwagon of Wilson criticism (he did well yesterday and against Forest a couple of months ago), it's far easier for him to get away with one of his poor games as he just jogs around having little or no influence in either a positive or negative sense. Coppinger is brave with the ball and players that take risks like that will always be prone to receiving criticism from the kind of fans that simply like to see the ball lumped forward.

As for Emmanuel Thomas, he has a lot to learn on and off the ball but he has bags of potential and the ability to turn a game in an instant. The knee-jerk reaction would be to drop him after yesterday's poor showing (opening quater of the game excepted), but I'm convinced the scene is set for him to turn it on against Newcastle on Tuesday.

[Barmby Rover]

He is here to learn, and yesterday's game is a difficult way to do it, local derbies are a new experience for him. He will improve for it and when SOD/ROK sit down with him he will be told what he did right, and then asked to say what he thought could be done to improve. \"Taking responsibility\" as they say! He needs to be given time and mistakes forgiven, yesterday he had a few, but surely that is outweighed by his goals at Bristol and against Derby. Let's see what he can do on Tuesday.

[jonrover]

Jonathan wrote:

jonrover wrote:

Interesting topic this. Copps has more bad games than good and he hasn't had half the crap written about him that this young lad has in one single thread! I wonder why that is?

Because Copps doesn't have more bad games than good, it's just that when he has an off day people notice it easily as he never hides and still sees the ball more than anyone. Without wanting to jump on the bandwagon of Wilson criticism (he did well yesterday and against Forest a couple of months ago), it's far easier for him to get away with one of his poor games as he just jogs around having little or no influence in either a positive or negative sense. Coppinger is brave with the ball and players that take risks like that will always be prone to receiving criticism from the kind of fans that simply like to see the ball lumped forward.

As for Emmanuel Thomas, he has a lot to learn on and off the ball but he has bags of potential and the ability to turn a game in an instant. The knee-jerk reaction would be to drop him after yesterday's poor showing (opening quater of the game excepted), but I'm convinced the scene is set for him to turn it on against Newcastle on Tuesday.

Sorry. Copps flatters to deceive too often and thus I stand by my statement. I don't doubt his ability one iota but he doesn't score enough or create enough assists for a player of his ability. And he certainly didn't in the lower leagues either. Mind you the Copps England shirt I've seen you sporting on several occasions perhaps means your opinion of Copps could be significantly biased, and as such taken with a sackful of salt.

Oh and for the record, I am far from \"the kind of fans that simply like to see the ball lumped forward\". Bit harsh to dish out stereotype to people you don't know isn't it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Coppinger is always going to be a polariser of opinions because he has such a bi-polar aspect to his play.

I have never seen a more naturally gifted Rovers player. His first touch, ball control, balance and vision are eminently suited to the Premiership.

But his final decision making has improved not one iota since he joined us. He shoots when he should cross, crosses when he should pass and passes when he should shoot. Always has done, and it appears that he always will.

He would have left us years ago if he had the killer final ball/decision making ability in his armoury, so I guess we should be thankful for small mercies. He is what our entire squad is: a very gifted, but flawed footballer who delights and infuriates in equal measure.

But for Jobathan's benefit, you can scrub the whole of that post and work on the assumption that  this criticism is based not on thoughtful reflection of 5 years observation, but on the fact that I would obviously just prefer him to t**t the thing 75 yards every time he got within touching distance if the ball.

[Jonathan]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

But for Jonathan's benefit, you can scrub the whole of that post and work on the assumption that  this criticism is based not on thoughtful reflection of 5 years observation....

Have you observed hard enough? Since joining the club in 2004, Coppinger has always ended up in the top two in our seasonal assists table so if he is being criticised for poor decision making/end product then what about the rest?

It's also worth highlighting (as I think it seems to slip the minds of a few) that when we went on that run that effectively saved our season last year (Boxing Day - March 3rd, when we took 28 points from 11 games), although Heffernan rightly took many of the plaudits, Coppinger also netted 5 times in that 11 game spell, while assisting many of Heffernan's goals. Not bad for someone with no end product. I'm glad the end product was Championship football again this season.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jonathan wrote:

When we were in League One, Coppinger was consistently high in the assists table so if he is being criticised for poor decision making/end productivity then what about the rest?

It's also worth highlighting (as I think it seems to slip the minds of a few) that when we went on that run that effectively saved our season last year (Boxing Day - March 3rd, when we took 28 points from 11 games), although Heffernan rightly took many of the plaudits, Coppinger also netted 5 times in that 11 game spell, while assisting many of Heffernan's goals. Not bad for someone with no end product. I'm glad the end product was Championship football again this season.

You're kind of missing the point Jonathan. This issue is whether his final product matches up to his (superb) general play. I firmly believe that it doesn't and that he'd have been in the Premiership years ago if it did.

Coppinger actually had had a very good assist record in Penney's team, when he was played as a winger. He had 15 assists in 59 league starts in 2004-05 & 2005-06 which is excellent.

Since O'Driscoll moved him inside, he has managed 20 assists & 14 goals in 127 league starts. Average at best for a forward/attacking midfielder.

Here's my two-pennorth, based on those numbers:

When he was a winger, he had a (relatively) straightforward task. He was very good at beating full-backs and typically then had no major decision to make; he was expected to put in good quality crosses.

Since moving inside, he has far more overall involvement in the play. He is superb at this, and frequently instrumental in carving open the opposition midfield. BUT. The forward posotions that he then finds himself in are different. He's usually more central than he was in the Penney days, and he has a number of decisions to make. My eyes and the stats tell me that in general he's not very good at making the right decision. At least not compared to the quality of the play that gets him into those positions in the first place. If he was, he'd score 12 and set up 12 every season, such is the ease with which he gets himself into dangerous positions.

As it is, he's not been remotely close to the top of the divisional lists for assists since Penney's days.

A gloriously gifted player who, if he had that final decision in his locker would be the finest attacking player that I have ever seen play for us. As it is, he falls a fraction short.

[Jonathan]

Of course you are correct to state that if his end product matched his general play then he would have been in the Premiership years ago, but my point is that he has finished in the top two of our seasonal assists table in every season since joining the club, so while he frustrates at times, he still produces more than others. Basically we are agreeing on the same point in a round about way. He works his way into more positions than others, maybe the ratio of return to that is low, but it generally always will be for someone that works such a high volume of openings. I stand by my point that for a previous poster to state he has more bad games than good, is simply wrong.

[Wellred]

TheRev wrote:

He looked knackered? - Well it wasn't from all the running and chasing he was doing.
We can't afford to start with him against Newcastle. We need 11 on the pitch!

Well SOD thinks he is, so shouldn't that be good enough for us all?


Now who could possibly have posted that quote about a different player?

Double standards?

[thornerover94]

Nah! they don`t pay as much as Real Madrid  [/quote]

haha least you have a sense of humour,
end of it all the lads on loan and maybe doesn't it as a big deal where the majority of the other know what it means to the team and the fans he will get it out of his system in time and who better to teach him than probably one of the best coaching teams in the country, we have shown over the years we can get the best out of players and sure we will with jet