Daily Express today

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bless em. This time two weeks ago, their lot had got the Election all sewn up and they could sit back and relax. Now that everybody's got Clegged-up, their floundering, wondering what to do to whip the bas**rds back into line.

Today's headline...\"Immigrant Fury\".

Pictuer the scene at the Editorial Meeting:

\"What are we going to put on the front page to make people vote Tory?\"

\"What about a picture of George Osbourne with his cock out?\"

\"What about an sob-line interview with Michael Gove about how he was buggered at school for being such an obnoxious little toss-pot?\"

\"Everybody loves the Churchill Dog. Let's put a picyture of Kenneth Clark on the front page, with the headline 'Oh Yes!'\"

\"Ahh, f**k it, get the old \"Immigrant Fury\" story out again.\"

I'm waiting with bated breath for the next ten days of headlines.

\"Brown Tax Rise t**t\"

\"Pinko, Commy bas**rd Arse\"

\"Clegg Admits: 'I Did a Shit in Your Garden'\"

And finally, on election day,

\"EU, Immigrant, Dole Scrounger, Right-on, Kitson, f**ker, Arrrrrgghhhhhhh!\"

[RobTheRover]

Have you been reading Viz again, mate?  You know what the nice doctor said about that!

[Thinwhiteduke]

All I know is, I wont be voting for Brown/ Labour even if Brown personally knocked on my door and handed me a tax free cheque for £50 grand.

[RobTheRover]

Its a mistake you will live to regret, mate.  Dont think the Tories will make things any better for the likes of you and me.

[MartinB]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

All I know is, I wont be voting for Brown/ Labour even if Brown personally knocked on my door and handed me a tax free cheque for £50 grand.

Bet you would!  

[Keith Myath]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

All I know is, I wont be voting for Brown/ Labour even if Brown personally knocked on my door and handed me a tax free cheque for £50 grand.

Thus meaning you have too much money already, undoubtedly made from the boom years under Labour and are probably looking at the tax breaks for the wealthy under Tory Rule. This while the rest of the country falls back into the Thatcherite bleakness of the Early 80's, thus proporgating the demise of what is left of traditional northern industry and condemning us all to lower standard of living and increased poverty.

Fantastic.....

[BillyStubbsTears]

RobTheRover wrote:

Have you been reading Viz again, mate?  You know what the nice doctor said about that!

The Sun has gone beyond even Viz-stylee parody today. Front page spread with Simon fcuking Cowell saying \"Vote Tory\".

Tomorrow it'll be Jedward giving us their two pennorth on the relative merits of neo-Keynsian fiscal stimulation against supply-side investment as means of emerging from recession.

I'll tell you what breaks my heart about this. That cnut Murdoch becomes a billionaire by encouraging people to wallow in their own ignorance then serving up dumbed down shit like this to the market that he perpetuates. It's deeply depressing.

I wonder what our great- great- great grandparents who fought for the right to vote would think if they came back today and saw what our democratic process had become.

[jonrover]

Keith Myath wrote:

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

All I know is, I wont be voting for Brown/ Labour even if Brown personally knocked on my door and handed me a tax free cheque for £50 grand.

Thus meaning you have too much money already, undoubtedly made from the boom years under Labour and are probably looking at the tax breaks for the wealthy under Tory Rule. This while the rest of the country falls back into the Thatcherite bleakness of the Early 80's, thus proporgating the demise of what is left of traditional northern industry and condemning us all to lower standard of living and increased poverty.

Fantastic.....

Yep, that'll be all us Northern monkeys will have to look forward to if that obnoxious little turd Cameron gets the keys to number 10 sometime on Friday. Party for the rich, always have been and will be. And they will lead us straight back into recession with their Thacherrite monetarist economic policies.

Two quotes have caught my eye this week. One on a programme which tried to let the public know what the parties dare not tell us about the cuts. Apparently the public sector is facing a 25% cut in spending at best! To that a member of the audience suggested \"We should all learn Greek and fight for every job.\" Tongue in cheek maybe but I can see strikes happening like never seen before regardless who gets in. And secondly, an economist (can't recall the name) suggested, \" because of the level of cuts and tax hikes the public are facing, the party who win the election won't get back in for another generation.

So, perhaps a Tory victory might not be such a bad thing after all!

[BLIR]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

All I know is, I wont be voting for Brown/ Labour even if Brown personally knocked on my door and handed me a tax free cheque for £50 grand.

I'd happily vote for Lord Sutch or Nick Griffin for 50 grand

[Snods Shinpad 2]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Front page spread with Simon fcuking Cowell saying \"Vote Tory\".

Fat, rich bloke says, \"Vote to make me even fatter and richer\", in fat, rich foreigners shitsheet.

[RTID75]

My vote is and always has been for Labour, through and through. I am not considering anything else, but at the very least a vote for others risks letting in the Tories by the back door.

I am sure many, many ordinary, working class people in Doncaster and beyond would very soon be pissed off with another elitist Tory government. I don't doubt for a second that they're just going around pretending to be nice and spouting the kind of shit that people want to hear at the moment. Given a few months I just know we'd all see the true colours and intentions of a new Tory government - see that the rich prosper and the working class / less well off are viciously shafted - and I for one really, really don't want to go back there again.

Having said all that, I feel that Labour are likely to be blamed by the Sun reading / Daily Mail reading / none too deep thinking general public for a *global* recession and I can see it going the way of hung Parliament. A better outcome than the Tories getting in clean (God forbid - I can only hope!), but how that would be resolved I really don't know. Worrying times.

[BobG]

Actually RTID, I'm hoping like mad that we do end up with a hung parliament. It will undoubtedly be confusing and mysterious at first, but I suspect it could open a whole new chapter in British politics. We have confrontational politics bred into us as bairns. That leads on to confrontational behaviour in all sorts of walks of life - Courts, police, you name it. But when opposing parties actually have to sit down, together, to work out what and how to do a few things, well, the spirit of co-operation, of compromise, might begin to stalk the land. It works well enough in plenty of other countries. Why can't it work here? Lack of practice of course - but that would come in time. So, hung parliament for me!

And it'd be one in the eye for that ancient crone the arch witch of dogma politics too.

Cheers

BobG

[Snods Shinpad 2]

Vote Clegg and we'll have riots, murder and anarchy says The Daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/election/article-1273413/Greek-riots-Look-Nick-Cleggs-beloved-PR-voting-did-Greece.html

[Thinwhiteduke]

RTID75 wrote:

My vote is and always has been for Labour, through and through.

Sorry. Cant vote for a man who sold most of our gold reserves off at a budget price which has cost us approx 7-8 billion pounds. Cut Military budgets and fails to deal with workshy benefkit fraudsters so they have a better life than I have without lifting a finger.

Having said that I cant say Im too impressed with the Tories either, but, and its a long time ago, my parents will always vouch that they would NEVER have got on the property ladder without the Tories introduction of the 'right to buy' scheme.

My parents and family, and some of them were miners, had done well out of a Tory government, all of my education/ working class upbringing was during a Tory Government and I did fine out of it.

I aint decided who to vote for yet, Ill be doing so this evening, but I have no fear of the Tories - Im just to be convinced. As per previous though, no way is it a cross in the Labour box for me.

[bobjimwilly]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

RTID75 wrote:

My vote is and always has been for Labour, through and through.

Sorry. Cant vote for a man who sold most of our gold reserves off at a budget price which has cost us approx 7-8 billion pounds. Cut Military budgets and fails to deal with workshy benefkit fraudsters so they have a better life than I have without lifting a finger.

Having said that I cant say Im too impressed with the Tories either, but, and its a long time ago, my parents will always vouch that they would NEVER have got on the property ladder without the Tories introduction of the 'right to buy' scheme.

My parents and family, and some of them were miners, had done well out of a Tory government, all of my education/ working class upbringing was during a Tory Government and I did fine out of it.

I aint decided who to vote for yet, Ill be doing so this evening, but I have no fear of the Tories - Im just to be convinced. As per previous though, no way is it a cross in the Labour box for me.

What's your opinions of the LibDems then TWD? From the sounds of your distaste with cutting Military budgets, I'm guessing you're against the idea of removing the cold war Trident system?

[River Don]

BobG wrote:

Actually RTID, I'm hoping like mad that we do end up with a hung parliament. It will undoubtedly be confusing and mysterious at first, but I suspect it could open a whole new chapter in British politics. We have confrontational politics bred into us as bairns. That leads on to confrontational behaviour in all sorts of walks of life - Courts, police, you name it. But when opposing parties actually have to sit down, together, to work out what and how to do a few things, well, the spirit of co-operation, of compromise, might begin to stalk the land. It works well enough in plenty of other countries. Why can't it work here? Lack of practice of course - but that would come in time. So, hung parliament for me!

And it'd be one in the eye for that ancient crone the arch witch of dogma politics too.

Cheers

BobG

I'm with you on that Bob, I'm voting for the hung parliament party too. I'd like to see a change to the voting system and this election is the best chance of seeing it. I no longer buy the argument about needing strong government and switching between red and blue every decade or so. The Germans have done pretty well on consensual politics, I think we should have it too. And it would make a nice change to actually be a able to vote knowing it'll count. I've always lived in constituencies with safe seats, there's really been no point to any of the votes I've made ever.

[awsworth_rover]

Hate to get involved in the election chat but under labour this time-

1 Created false econemy by allowing people to think the were richer than they are, by borrowing on over inflated house prices, then blame every1 else when prices re-balance

2 Me and my misses work full time, and can sometimes afford to 'treat' ouirselves to a night out twice a month. Some families on my street dont have a wage coming in the house, but can go out when they want due to having more disposable income than me. Fair??? yeah cause it is.

3 Joined Europe despite promising a refferendem and it cost us over £50 million a day. Oh well, at least we bail everyone else out again. Cheers

4 Lost control on immigration by being soft as F**k and let anyone and there dog in, bringing in further crime, and illnesses.

5 Brown sold off the uk gold supplies when gold hit rock bottom when in charge of the the tresuery. Now its worth 4 times that value, and guess what, we havent got any left! Good call.

6 My gran is currently in a care home, seeing all the values of her estate that my grandad spent 60 years building up, being taken by the cost of caring, yet the person in the very next room, has had it for free for 14 years. Fair??? Yeah whatever.

I will not be voting for this man. All I know is labour dont repect the values the once did, and im looking elsewhere.

[bobjimwilly]

awsworth_rover wrote:

Hate to get involved in the election chat but under labour this time-

1 Created false econemy by allowing people to think the were richer than they are, by borrowing on over inflated house prices, then blame every1 else when prices re-balance

2 Me and my misses work full time, and can sometimes afford to 'treat' ouirselves to a night out twice a month. Some families on my street dont have a wage coming in the house, but can go out when they want due to having more disposable income than me. Fair??? yeah cause it is.

3 Joined Europe despite promising a refferendem and it cost us over £50 million a day. Oh well, at least we bail everyone else out again. Cheers

4 Lost control on immigration by being soft as F**k and let anyone and there dog in, bringing in further crime, and illnesses.

5 Brown sold off the uk gold supplies when gold hit rock bottom when in charge of the the tresuery. Now its worth 4 times that value, and guess what, we havent got any left! Good call.

6 My gran is currently in a care home, seeing all the values of her estate that my grandad spent 60 years building up, being taken by the cost of caring, yet the person in the very next room, has had it for free for 14 years. Fair??? Yeah whatever.

I will not be voting for this man. All I know is labour dont repect the values the once did, and im looking elsewhere.

All very good points IMO mate, and partly the reason for the growing distrust of many ppl who have probably voted Labour their entire lives. But I still don't trust the tories.

Which ever way you look at it, the country's definately in a pickle. Maybe a hung pariliament will force a better government? More likely it will just mean another election in 12 months though I fear?  

[awsworth_rover]

bobjimwilly wrote:

awsworth_rover wrote:

Hate to get involved in the election chat but under labour this time-

1 Created false econemy by allowing people to think the were richer than they are, by borrowing on over inflated house prices, then blame every1 else when prices re-balance

2 Me and my misses work full time, and can sometimes afford to 'treat' ouirselves to a night out twice a month. Some families on my street dont have a wage coming in the house, but can go out when they want due to having more disposable income than me. Fair??? yeah cause it is.

3 Joined Europe despite promising a refferendem and it cost us over £50 million a day. Oh well, at least we bail everyone else out again. Cheers

4 Lost control on immigration by being soft as F**k and let anyone and there dog in, bringing in further crime, and illnesses.

5 Brown sold off the uk gold supplies when gold hit rock bottom when in charge of the the tresuery. Now its worth 4 times that value, and guess what, we havent got any left! Good call.

6 My gran is currently in a care home, seeing all the values of her estate that my grandad spent 60 years building up, being taken by the cost of caring, yet the person in the very next room, has had it for free for 14 years. Fair??? Yeah whatever.

I will not be voting for this man. All I know is labour dont repect the values the once did, and im looking elsewhere.

All very good points IMO mate, and partly the reason for the growing distrust of many ppl who have probably voted Labour their entire lives. But I still don't trust the tories.

Which ever way you look at it, the country's definately in a pickle. Maybe a hung pariliament will force a better government? More likely it will just mean another election in 12 months though I fear?  

TBH mate, that is the problem, trust. I dont have any for the labour party. I have tried and tried and tried, but they and Brown have let what is important to me and family down far to many times. I honestly believe its time for change. This government has had a long time to do things but they havent. Why do people think that promises now will make a difference. Whoever gets in, has hell of a mess to sort out. I can understand the fraustrations in some people saying stuff it, im not bothering, but that is why the country has been allowed to spirral out of control. Love em or hate em, the french dont sit about moaning when they disagree with there leaders! OMG I think im calling for a full uk strike hear or even a revolution!!! lol Think i better have a brew and chill out......

[Thinwhiteduke]

bobjimwilly wrote:

What's your opinions of the LibDems then TWD? From the sounds of your distaste with cutting Military budgets, I'm guessing you're against the idea of removing the cold war Trident system?

Clegg would happily leave us as sitting ducks to terrororists. He'd abolish the pound and embrace Europe wholeheartedly, he wants an amnesty on illegal immigrants for christs sakes. Are you going to vote for that??!!??

What annoys me is people making statements that Labour are still a Working Class/ working mans party - no they aint, they havent been for atleast 10 years.

Labour care no more or less about the Working Classes than the Tories, they certainly dont care about the old and frail (sell your home to pay for your care), free prescriptions in England whilst Labour are in charge? - not a chance.

To be honest, the three mainstreams are all broadly similar and as bad as each other as far as Im concerned, I dont hold 20-30 year old grudges against parties, I judge on the hear and now the best I can. Thats why the 'Tories are a rich mans party/ Labour are good for the working man' thing doesnt wash with me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

Labour care no more or less about the Working Classes than the Tories, they certainly dont care about the old and frail (sell your home to pay for your care), free prescriptions in England whilst Labour are in charge? - not a chance.

To be honest, the three mainstreams are all broadly similar and as bad as each other as far as Im concerned, I dont hold 20-30 year old grudges against parties, I judge on the hear and now the best I can.

I despair. This kind of idle, thoughtless rubbish makes a mockery of democracy. There's no thought behind it, just knee-jerk comments repeated often enough that become facts.

Look at what Labour has done whilst in power, specifically to help the poorest section sof society.

1) Lowest unemployment for two generations and largest working population EVER - specifically helps the poorest in society to get on by working instead of rotting on the dole.
2) More working class kids than ever going to University.
3) Investment in schools as stepping stones for our kids' futures.
4) Child Trust Funds which are a key way to help kids from the poorest backgrounds improve their lot.
5) Strategic investment into some of the poorest areas of the country through Regional Development Agencies - look at how Donny and Sheffield have been transformed in this last decade.
6) Huge investment in the NHS, for those of us who aren't rich enough to opt out of it.


As for grudges. It's not about grudges. It's about VALUES. The Tory party values have not changed one iota, despite the caring face put on the party by Grinning Dave. See who will suffer disproportionately if they get a chance to put their policies into proactice. Not the richest tiny percent who will be able to pass their £1million homes on tax free. It'll be the cleaner in the hospital, the poorly paid admin clerk, the council worker. THAT is what they mean when they talk about \"efficiency savings\" in the public sector. The face has changed, but the principle remains the same. Support the very richest and let areas like ours go to f**king hell.

[River Don]

1] Yes, but many of those jobs are in the public sector. We have one of the biggest public sectors in Europe bigger than Greece. We couldn't afford it and now there are going to have to be severe cuts. Whoever gets in.

2] True but athere will be cuts in education

3] The schools turn kids out with qualifications so high no one believes them and employers constantly complain about low standards. The UK is slipping down the international education league table all the time.

4] Expect cuts

5] Europe won't be able to afford regional development aid anymore, it's all going to go on bailing the crippled economies

6] Expect cuts in health too.

The problem it turns out is New Labour spent all they could get their hands on to deliver this stuff and now the money has run out and we're in a proper mess.

[awsworth_rover]

1) Lowest unemployment for two generations and largest working population EVER - specifically helps the poorest in society to get on by working instead of rotting on the dole.

Statistics can be made for any argument. I also read more people on benefits than ever, and also more money paid out in benefits EVER, not in decades EVER!

2) More working class kids than ever going to University.

Correct, but also more students coming away from university with debts on average of £15k, and end up working in care homes or supermarkets due to being overqualified for jobs, or no hands on experience.

3) Investment in schools as stepping stones for our kids' futures.

Correct

4) Child Trust Funds which are a key way to help kids from the poorest backgrounds improve their lot.

If i wasnt taxed ouit my arse i could put that small amount of money away every year for my kids. Yes its a bonus, but lts not think its a gift for one minute. Out one hand and in the other.

5) Strategic investment into some of the poorest areas of the country through Regional Development Agencies - look at how Donny and Sheffield have been transformed in this last decade.

Called devolopment, and can be seen in many many towns around the uk, and also europe.

6) Huge investment in the NHS, for those of us who aren't rich enough to opt out of it.

Again this is always going to happen to move along with technology. I still think too much money doesnt reach where it should with the NHS. Id personally scrap all National Insurance contributions, and take a private medical ins if i had the option, then my contributions are not paying for unhealthy alchoholis who smoke 50 fags a day. Thats my opinion on that issue anyway. Selfish I know, but knowone else seams to look after at the moment!

End of the day, everyone has there own thoughts and issues. I just dont like some trying to ram there anti other parties into people. Every party has there plus and minus points. Its down to each individual to try and vote for who they think makes a difference to them. Brown has had more than enough time to make my life better.

[awsworth_rover]

River Don wrote:

1] Yes, but many of those jobs are in the public sector. We have one of the biggest public sectors in Europe bigger than Greece. We couldn't afford it and now there are going to have to be severe cuts. Whoever gets in.

2] True but athere will be cuts in education

3] The schools turn kids out with qualifications so high no one believes them and employers constantly complain about low standards. The UK is slipping down the international education league table all the time.

4] Expect cuts

5] Europe won't be able to afford regional development aid anymore, it's all going to go on bailing the crippled economies

6] Expect cuts in health too.

The problem it turns out is New Labour spent all they could get their hands on to deliver this stuff and now the money has run out and we're in a proper mess.

Also, money spent that we bloody owe. We have a bigger debt now than some 3rd world countries!

[bobjimwilly]

Isn't alot of this debt down to the recession though? Brown stuck with spending through the recession (rightly IMO) to avoid cuts in public services and prevent further unemployment.

What I am saying is, if the global recession hadn't have happened (which no-one can say they foresaw), would we be in this mess still under the current government? I'm not sure we would be...  

[Filo]

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

RTID75 wrote:

Having said that I cant say Im too impressed with the Tories either, but, and its a long time ago, my parents will always vouch that they would NEVER have got on the property ladder without the Tories introduction of the 'right to buy' scheme.

A Tory master-stroke, giving council tenants the right to buy at discount rates, it saddled folk with debt and responsibility thus making it harder for them to take industrial action when necessary. Become unemployed with a mortgage you can`t pay and repossession looms, live in the same house as a council tenant and become unemployed and your rent gets paid, thats the fear factor right to buy created

[awsworth_rover]

Filo wrote:

Thinwhiteduke wrote:

RTID75 wrote:

Having said that I cant say Im too impressed with the Tories either, but, and its a long time ago, my parents will always vouch that they would NEVER have got on the property ladder without the Tories introduction of the 'right to buy' scheme.

A Tory master-stroke, giving council tenants the right to buy at discount rates, it saddled folk with debt and responsibility thus making it harder for them to take industrial action when necessary. Become unemployed with a mortgage you can`t pay and repossession looms, live in the same house as a council tenant and become unemployed and your rent gets paid, thats the fear factor right to buy created

Or on the other hand, own a property outright, and have something to pass onto your family. Have no rent to pay into retirement because you own a property outright. Pros and cons my friend. I read some many positives stories from the right to buy schemes, and a few negative ones. Wisdh i could have bought my house for 40% discount 3 years ago!!!!

[River Don]

bobjimwilly wrote:

Isn't alot of this debt down to the recession though? Brown stuck with spending through the recession (rightly IMO) to avoid cuts in public services and prevent further unemployment.

What I am saying is, if the global recession hadn't have happened (which no-one can say they foresaw), would we be in this mess still under the current government? I'm not sure we would be...  

Brown did engineer an unsustainable property boom though. Northern Rock was a sub-prime crisis, most of the banks were involved in crazy lending here too it wasn't just in the US. And we were in massive debt before the recession, not the best position to be in. The low interest rates crippling savers, the massive spending and printing money since is just holding off the evil day of reckoning, which is due very soon.

I don't believe a Conservative government wouldn't have handled the economy much better either. In general they backed most Labour policies and would have gone further with deregulation of banks.

Vince Cable on the other hand was warning of a coming crisis and wanted to see action to limit its effects, though I don't think he foresaw just how bad it would be. He was regularly brushed aside and laughed at in the house.

[MrFrost]

I've not decided who to vote for yet. I really cant see the benefits of any of them.
One thing is for certain. The boom years are certainly over. We've seen alot of development in our town over the years, but I can see things no heading back to the dark days of the 80s and early 90s.

I visited Wakefield the other week, and that is one town that appears to be still on the boom. New developments all over the place, and hardly a single empty shop in the city centre.

Has anyone walked through our town centre lately? Its a ghost town.

[BillyStubbsTears]

River Don wrote:

bobjimwilly wrote:

Isn't alot of this debt down to the recession though? Brown stuck with spending through the recession (rightly IMO) to avoid cuts in public services and prevent further unemployment.

What I am saying is, if the global recession hadn't have happened (which no-one can say they foresaw), would we be in this mess still under the current government? I'm not sure we would be...  

Brown did engineer an unsustainable property boom though. Northern Rock was a sub-prime crisis, most of the banks were involved in crazy lending here too it wasn't just in the US. And we were in massive debt before the recession, not the best position to be in. The low interest rates crippling savers, the massive spending and printing money since is just holding off the evil day of reckoning, which is due very soon.

I don't believe a Conservative government wouldn't have handled the economy much better either. In general they backed most Labour policies and would have gone further with deregulation of banks.

Vince Cable on the other hand was warning of a coming crisis and wanted to see action to limit its effects, though I don't think he foresaw just how bad it would be. He was regularly brushed aside and laughed at in the house.

Hang on a minute. Even AFTER the worldwide (remember: not just us) economic collapse, our economic position is still better than it was as recently as 2006 (measured in terms of GDP). Vince Cable may have prophesied the credit crunch. Full marks to him if he did. What he DOESN'T say is what he would have done differently. Since the Liberals are besotted with the EU, presumably he'd have had similar economic/fiscal policies to Germany and France. Those policies resulted in a decade of economic under performance relative to us, followed by an only slightly less sharp recession.

There's no magic bullet here. But one thing us sure which us that our overall and individual wealth is far higher now than it was in 1997. Our schools and hospitals are better. Our trains are better. Our city and town centres infrastructures are better.

And whichever way you look at it, when the recession did come to the whole world, the practical effects here (specifically, the number of people who were chucked on the dole) were far less vicious than in the 1980 or 1990  recessions, where the Tories left it to the markets to sort things out. Just like Cameron and Osbourne were screaming for us to do this time.