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They obviously believed May when she kept on parroting 'no deal is better than a bad deal'!
People moaning about the result?That’ll be the Farage who said in May 2016:”If we were to lose narrowly, there'd be a large section, particularly in the Conservative Party, who'd feel the prime minister is not playing fair, that the Remain side is using way more money than the Leave side and there would be a resentment that would build up if that was to be the result.”https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681Still, what do expect from him? The Kitson who said on the morning after the vote, “we did it without a shot being fired.” A week after Jo Cox had been shot dead by a maniac shouting “This is for Britain. Britain will always come first.”
Brexit: Nigel Farage says 'maybe' there should be a second referendum on EU membershiphttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html
Since the referendum ( I was not qualified to vote because I have lived on the European mainland too long) the EU has ; Agreed to build an army ( presumably a navy and airforce ) Failed to comment on the imprisonment of politicians in Spain Taken a number of POLITICAL decisions within the Eurozone for the benefit of the common currency but not in the interests of non Eurozone members .
Quote from: graingrover on January 14, 2018, 10:51:46 amSince the referendum ( I was not qualified to vote because I have lived on the European mainland too long) the EU has ; Agreed to build an army ( presumably a navy and airforce ) Failed to comment on the imprisonment of politicians in Spain Taken a number of POLITICAL decisions within the Eurozone for the benefit of the common currency but not in the interests of non Eurozone members . This is because over time the EU Commission has become far too powerful. Don't forget that Commissioners are unelected and so not accountable to an electorate. And the Parliament is too weak and divided to hold them in check.
Quote from: The Red Baron on January 14, 2018, 01:24:11 pmQuote from: graingrover on January 14, 2018, 10:51:46 amSince the referendum ( I was not qualified to vote because I have lived on the European mainland too long) the EU has ; Agreed to build an army ( presumably a navy and airforce ) Failed to comment on the imprisonment of politicians in Spain Taken a number of POLITICAL decisions within the Eurozone for the benefit of the common currency but not in the interests of non Eurozone members . This is because over time the EU Commission has become far too powerful. Don't forget that Commissioners are unelected and so not accountable to an electorate. And the Parliament is too weak and divided to hold them in check. Our civil service are unelected and not accountable to an electorate either. I agree that the EU Parliament needs to have more muscle - in lots of areas - though.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on January 14, 2018, 02:22:41 pmQuote from: The Red Baron on January 14, 2018, 01:24:11 pmQuote from: graingrover on January 14, 2018, 10:51:46 amSince the referendum ( I was not qualified to vote because I have lived on the European mainland too long) the EU has ; Agreed to build an army ( presumably a navy and airforce ) Failed to comment on the imprisonment of politicians in Spain Taken a number of POLITICAL decisions within the Eurozone for the benefit of the common currency but not in the interests of non Eurozone members . This is because over time the EU Commission has become far too powerful. Don't forget that Commissioners are unelected and so not accountable to an electorate. And the Parliament is too weak and divided to hold them in check. Our civil service are unelected and not accountable to an electorate either. I agree that the EU Parliament needs to have more muscle - in lots of areas - though.In theory they are supposed to be civil servants. In reality they appear to think of themselves as ministers in an EU government.
Military co-operation in Europe is via NATO. IMO the talk of an EU army is dangerous because it plays into the hands of Trump and other isolationists in the USA. I think it is unlikely to happen but it is another symptom of Commissioners getting too much power.
Quote from: The Red Baron on January 14, 2018, 04:28:49 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on January 14, 2018, 02:22:41 pmQuote from: The Red Baron on January 14, 2018, 01:24:11 pmQuote from: graingrover on January 14, 2018, 10:51:46 amSince the referendum ( I was not qualified to vote because I have lived on the European mainland too long) the EU has ; Agreed to build an army ( presumably a navy and airforce ) Failed to comment on the imprisonment of politicians in Spain Taken a number of POLITICAL decisions within the Eurozone for the benefit of the common currency but not in the interests of non Eurozone members . This is because over time the EU Commission has become far too powerful. Don't forget that Commissioners are unelected and so not accountable to an electorate. And the Parliament is too weak and divided to hold them in check. Our civil service are unelected and not accountable to an electorate either. I agree that the EU Parliament needs to have more muscle - in lots of areas - though.In theory they are supposed to be civil servants. In reality they appear to think of themselves as ministers in an EU government.That's because Ministers are part of the executive, as are EU Commissioners. And it's Ministers that are a government, so the Commissioners are quite right to think in those terms.It's Britain that has the anomaly here as our Ministers are not only in the Executive but also in the Legislature. Most countries follow the Separation Of Powers as first delineated by Montesquieu in that they keep the Executive, Legislature and Judiciary completely separate as part of the checks and balances of government, in order to safeguard democracy.The problem is then, that a lot of British people, who have only known the UK system and don't have any understanding of how other countries use the Separation Of Powers, then look at the EU - which uses that same model too - and decide that because it's not the same as the UK that it's wrong. Because most Britons think of the government as being Parliament, which it isn't.
I'm glad that you agree with me that EU Commissioners see themselves as ministers not Civil Servants. So the question is then... when did we vote for this "EU Government?"
Glyn’s bang on. We are an anomaly. Look at the USA. Who voted in Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State? Or Steve Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary?EU Cimmissioners are selected by the heads of RU national governments. If you don’t like the Commissioner(s) that your country chooses, vote for a different national Govt.