Brexit Negotiations

[SydneyRover]

Brexit is often sold by its most committed supporters on the right as a constitutional version of the economic doctrine of Thatcherism, a clean break with the failed policies of the past. These fanatics succeeded in convincing David Cameron, who was prone to flattery but supine in the face of aggression, that a popular vote in a referendum was a remedy for the unrepresentative nature of Westminster politics. Once they did away with Mr Cameron, they installed Theresa May and carried on with legislative manoeuvring to enable an irreversible transformation of society. The hard Brexiters are ruthless about the means, and in denial about the fall-out of their desires. Yet now the game is up.

The evidence is that a departure from the European Union on WTO terms would blow up large parts of the British economy. There would be a lot of pain for some far-off gain.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/04/the-guardian-view-on-brexit-the-beginning-of-the-end

[Donnywolf]

I think I posted this a few days ago but instead of 5 days of the s**t being churned out in Parliament why dont the MPs who are going to 100% vote against Mrs May just stay out of the Chamber

In that way she could SEE that she has NO CHANCE of winning that particular vote and we could all move on to whatever crap is coming next !

[BillyStubbsTears]

That’s what I thought, to go to this degree to try and conceal what is contained in the document it must be pretty damning.

Gaz

Here's your answer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46455489

The legal advice is that, if no solution to the NI border is found, at the end of the transition period, NI would be in the CU and SM, but the rest of the UK wouldn't.

That's what May wants the country to sign up to.

But May thundered this time last year in full-on Churchillian mode that No British PM could agree to a deal that treated NI differently from the rest of the UK.

I remember thinking at the time that she was saying that for effect and that it would come back to bite her. It looks like it has. She has agreed to a deal which her own legal adviser says is likely to lead to precisely that outcome. And that is not what was said in the briefing that was given to Parliament by the Attourney General on Monday.

Once again, may has misled Parliament. She has welshed on the thing she promised last year. And most importantly for her future, she has ignored the wishes of the DUP. I cannot see any way that the DUP can support her Govt in future after this betrayal.  They will be f**king livid, and they are not known for letting bygones be bygones.

Get ready for, at least, May being booted out, and probably the fall of this Govt because without the DUP, they don't have a majority.

THAT is why she didn't want this document published.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Look at paragraphs 8 and 9 here from the full disclosure of the AG's advice.

https://twitter.com/NeilGrayMP/status/1070289442613706752

"Northern Ireland will remain in the EU's Single Market for goods and the EU's customs regime and will be required to comply with all the relevant rules and standards."

"GB will no longer be a member of the EU's Single Market for goods or the EU's customs arrangements."

"GB is essentially treated as a third country by NI for goods passing from GB to NI".

Those paragraphs are the end of May's career as far as I can see. There is not a chance in a million that the DUP can go back to supporting her after she has misled them to this extent.

[RedJ]

They've said they'll back her in a confidence motion if the WA is voted down apparently. Otherwise we're staring down the barrel of a general election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RedJ

As far as I can see, that's not been said officially. It's Rees-Mogg who is claiming they have said that, so forgive me if I take it with a skip full of salt.

[RedJ]

Not officially, hence the 'apparently'.

Though I'm not so sure it would be too far removed from reality, even coming from him.

[tommy toes]

And now due to the latest round of Brexit shenanigans Phil Hammond has admitted that growth in the service sector - which is now our most important area- has flatlined and economists predict with be negative by the end of the year.

[wilts rover]

RedJ

As far as I can see, that's not been said officially. It's Rees-Mogg who is claiming they have said that, so forgive me if I take it with a skip full of salt.

Watch Nigel Dodds on Peston tonight (spoiler alert I just watched the live show on twitter)

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll have a look Wilts. If the DUP forgive May after this they are less Old Testament than I thought.

Meanwhile, in the ongoing saga of the man who syphoned Kremlin money into the Leave campaign...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46460194

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right. I've been accused of not being prepared to change my mind.

But hands up. John Redwood has convinced me that the tales of economic disaster following Hard Brexit are nonsense because all these experts who spend their lives researching trade economics don't understand how factories work.

https://brexitcentral.com/scare-mongering-trading-eu-wto-terms-misunderstand-modern-factories-operate/

That's John Redwood, whose professional experience is as a city trader, 30 years being an MP and the most cringeworthy political appearance ever, when he was Welsh Secretary and pretended to mime the words to the Welsh anthem https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGzBq0n8dxFQ&ved=2ahUKEwj16viN2YnfAhWLIcAKHeM5DJoQyCkwAHoECA0QBA&usg=AOvVaw0GTnFWo3MIRW3_x43y7a1q

Anyway. Redwood's convinced me. It's easy. Just In Time factories can get round the problems at ports after Brexit by...wait for it...wait for it...ordering their parts a bit earlier.

Where the f**k is Malcolm Tucker when you need him?

[MachoMadness]

I'll have a look Wilts. If the DUP forgive May after this they are less Old Testament than I thought.

Meanwhile, in the ongoing saga of the man who syphoned Kremlin money into the Leave campaign...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46460194

It's really concerning to me how few Brexit voters ever seem to address Banks and his shenanigans, and the ever-deepening level of corruption surrounding him. It's us liberal leftie elite-loving Remainiacs who are the traitors for arguing the toss about Brexit on a football forum, but the guy who pumped Russian money directly into the Brexit campaign with his offshore millions and his tax-dodging empire? There's someone with Britain's best interests at heart.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's that unanswered question every time MM

Why were Putin and Trump the only two world statesmen to back Hard (or any) Brexit? Why did Putin pour money into the Leave campaign through Banks?

Never once heard that point answered by a Leave supporter. And they claim to be the patriots.

[SydneyRover]

Back to the real brexit thread. Mods please shut down or merge the second brexit topic.

Looking for info on food banks I found this example of where Britain stood up to the EU and helped take back control and sovereignty I suppose.

UK government

''According to an all-party parliamentary report released in December 2014, key reasons for the increased demand for UK foodbanks are delays in paying benefits, welfare sanctions, and the recent reversal of the post-WWII trend for poor people's incomes to rise above or in line with increased costs for housing, utility bills and food.[87][88][89]

In 2013 the British government blocked a £22 million European Union fund to help finance food banks in the UK. This disappointed Labour MEP, Richard Howitt, who assisted in negotiating the fund"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_bank#UK_government

[Donnywolf]

I HATE Politicians and here is why ....

May has just kicked off the debate trying to sell her Deal / Agreement

She said "lets look how we got here - and mentioned the 1975 Referendum saying the People voted to stay in at that point but even then she said 33% of those voting wanted to leave " She failed to say of course that 66% or so voted to Remain a 33% Majority !!!

She then leapt to 2016 where she then said " In the biggest Democratic Vote ever held over 17.4 Million said they wanted to leave" She failed to say that was 51% or a bit more whereas nearly 49% voted to  Remain.

So she made a right meal of saying 33 % the first time round wanted to Leave whereas 49% in 2016 wanted to stay which she totally lefy out of her speech
So nearly 50% more voted to Remain the second time than the 33% that she originally highlighted from 1975 and she simply did not mention that / them.

I hate them all with a passion but especially Mrs One Liner
Strong and Stable Government (repeat ad nauseum then lose your Majority)
We must respect the will / vote of the British people (repeat ad nauseum and hope something turns up)
PLANK

I HATE Politicians Part 2 - and here is why

The PM has sent her minions here and there to sell her deal before Tuesdays crucial vote. Of course that gives them "free" hits - and chances to say " which will deliver on the Will of the British Pepole" ad nauseum

They can say anything they want without any checks and balances and say things like David Lidington MP just did. David who ?  (He sits to Mays right at PMs Questions)

" speaking to businesses today it is OBVIOUS that they want the certainty of the PMs Agreement - what they DONT WANT is the uncertainty of a No Deal and neither the uncertainty of staying in the EU"

I can understand the 2nd part of that but REALLY - they dont want the uncertainty of reverting to how we were 40 years ago 14 years ago 4 years ago 14 Weeks ago and still are. What is uncertain about that - whichever way you voted ?

I am not carping about what people voted for whether Remain or Leave just I HATE Politicians when they trawl out this s**t and probably hope we are "taken in" by it

[BillyStubbsTears]

More stuff for the Brexiteers to call Project Fear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-07/u-k-tells-supermarkets-to-maximize-stockpiles-before-brexit?srnd=premium-europe

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sweet f**king Jesus.

Just when you thought May couldn't be humiliated any further...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-08/theresa-may-to-announce-delay-to-brexit-vote-sunday-times?srnd=premium-europe

So let's get this right.

Her team has spent two years negotiating this deal.

She's signed off on it.

The EU has put it to the other 27 Govts, all of whom have signed off on it.

May has spent the past two weeks telling us it's the best deal in the interests of the country.

Parliament has spent the last week debating it.

Now the vote on it this Tuesday is going to be cancelled and May is going back to Brussels to ask for...a new deal.

What a God Almighty clusterf**k.

Does anyone realise how humiliated & incompetent this entire process is making us look to the rest of the world?

[Filo]

Sweet f**king Jesus.

Just when you thought May couldn't be humiliated any further...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-08/theresa-may-to-announce-delay-to-brexit-vote-sunday-times?srnd=premium-europe

So let's get this right.

Her team has spent two years negotiating this deal.

She's signed off on it.

The EU has put it to the other 27 Govts, all of whom have signed off on it.

May has spent the past two weeks telling us it's the best deal in the interests of the country.

Parliament has spent the last week debating it.

Now the vote on it this Tuesday is going to be cancelled and May is going back to Brussels to ask for...a new deal.

What a God Almighty clusterf**k.

Does anyone realise how humiliated & incompetent this entire process is making us look to the rest of the world?

Buying time to run out of time if you get what I mean

[BillyStubbsTears]

Exactly Filo.

She's got no way out of this. There isn't anything the EU can offer her, or SHOULD offer her now that will get her enough votes in Parliament.

It's not the EU's fault that the Tory party is an incompetent mess with a fourth-rate nonentity in charge. It's not the EU's job to bend over backwards to save her career.

If I were meeting with her in Brussels, I'd tell her to scuttle off back home and face the music. And let her country deal with the self inflicted omnishambles that May and the rest of the political right wing of this country have tipped us into.

Utterly, utterly f**king useless woman. Just GO for God's sake.

[Donnywolf]

I'm going to deliver a Strong and Stable Goverment AND what's more I WILL deliver on the Vote of the British people to leave the EU
BUT   Utterly, utterly f**king useless woman. Just GO for God's sake - sums her up better   

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm going to deliver a Strong and Stable Goverment AND what's more I WILL deliver on the Vote of the British people to leave the EU
BUT   Utterly, utterly f**king useless woman. Just GO for God's sake - sums her up better   

And she had the nerve to repeatedly call voting for someone else voting for a 'coalition of chaos'!

[Donnywolf]

YES - she did and trotted that out too every single sentence she got a chance to do so

Cant stand it when she is asked a question she does not want to answer but reverts to the same script maybe 5 or 6 times before the Interviewer decides to move on

The Nuclear Sub misfiring was one such example when she was banged to rights but instead chose to answer a completely different question loosely to do with Trident being kept as a legitimate Weapon (or some such s**t)

Found it - pathetic - should make anyone cringe except her devout Fans I suppose
 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2017/jan/22/theresa-may-dodges-question-trident-misfire-four-times-video

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thing is about May, she was always a third rate politician in terms of actually getting things done, but until 2017, I'd always got the impression that she was ruthlessly capable in terms of controlling her media image.

First inkling that wasn't right was in April 2017 after she'd called the GE. One of the Sunday papers quoted an unnamed aide saying that their policy for the campaign was to keep her away from the public as she was unable to think on her feet and she'd come across as weird.

I hope that aide got a promotion for their far-sightedness. I have never seen a major politician so inept at being publicly questioned. As you say Wolf, she just repeats the same practiced answer over and over and over again. It is cringingly embarrassing to watch.

[Donnywolf]

I hope that aide got a promotion for their far-sightedness. I have never seen a major politician so inept at being publicly questioned. As you say Wolf, she just repeats the same practiced answer over and over and over again. It is cringingly embarrassing to watch.

I have to agree - she is THE most embarrassing I can remember.

On the Nuclear Sub Video above - all she had to say the first time round is something that may have even been a Lie - such as "Andrew I am afraid there are sensitive National interests here - SO - for the moment I will not be able to answer that question"

That would be thinking on her feet - but its something she cannot do - and muppets like me can see that and hate her for it

[drfchound]

Don’t all politicians fail to answer a question that they don’t like?

Then they always do go off at a tangent and waffle on about something else, either slightly related to it (the question) or totally about something else.

I am amazed that anyone finds it unusual.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound

Have you not seen May in action?

She doesn't do that. She just repeats the same, rehearsed line to every question. It's weird and really embarrassing to watch. That's why they call her MayBot, because she sounds like a pre-programmed doll.

[Donnywolf]

Uuuuugh - I will not tell you the image that last phrase conjured up !

I dont want banning when I have got Super6 to run !

[drfchound]

Hound

Have you not seen May in action?

She doesn't do that. She just repeats the same, rehearsed line to every question. It's weird and really embarrassing to watch. That's why they call her MayBot, because she sounds like a pre-programmed doll.

Yeah, I have seen her.
I have to say that she does what many of the other politicians do.
I don’t trust any of them when it all comes down to it.

[SydneyRover]

I would imagine most of you have seen this but anyway it's funny.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-10/andy-serkis-takes-on-theresa-may-in-brexit-video/10599292

[Donnywolf]

To be fair I dont think that will be far from the truth.