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https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble. Someone else point of view on it, don’t know why it quoted everyone on last post
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on August 26, 2018, 11:02:27 pmSproty.The rest of the discussion is meaningless. Just concentrate on what the Brexiteer-in-Chief, Rees-Mogg says. Look at the ridiculousness of the content of what he says the post-Brexit situation will be. There is nothing sensible in anything he ever says. His usual approach is a content-free "It'll be fine". Now we know why. Because when he suggests something concrete, it is utterly shambolic.Point out to me anything that any Brexiteer has ever said in detail about why Brexit will work out well for us.BST these idiots just take turns grabbing the spot-light one gaff at a time, back to you Boris?.
Sproty.The rest of the discussion is meaningless. Just concentrate on what the Brexiteer-in-Chief, Rees-Mogg says. Look at the ridiculousness of the content of what he says the post-Brexit situation will be. There is nothing sensible in anything he ever says. His usual approach is a content-free "It'll be fine". Now we know why. Because when he suggests something concrete, it is utterly shambolic.Point out to me anything that any Brexiteer has ever said in detail about why Brexit will work out well for us.
Quote from: SydneyRover on August 26, 2018, 11:56:45 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on August 26, 2018, 11:02:27 pmSproty.The rest of the discussion is meaningless. Just concentrate on what the Brexiteer-in-Chief, Rees-Mogg says. Look at the ridiculousness of the content of what he says the post-Brexit situation will be. There is nothing sensible in anything he ever says. His usual approach is a content-free "It'll be fine". Now we know why. Because when he suggests something concrete, it is utterly shambolic.Point out to me anything that any Brexiteer has ever said in detail about why Brexit will work out well for us.BST these idiots just take turns grabbing the spot-light one gaff at a time, back to you Boris?.Sydney we both have a low opinion of each otherQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on August 26, 2018, 11:02:27 pmSproty.The rest of the discussion is meaningless. Just concentrate on what the Brexiteer-in-Chief, Rees-Mogg says. Look at the ridiculousness of the content of what he says the post-Brexit situation will be. There is nothing sensible in anything he ever says. His usual approach is a content-free "It'll be fine". Now we know why. Because when he suggests something concrete, it is utterly shambolic.Point out to me anything that any Brexiteer has ever said in detail about why Brexit will work out well for us.The rest of the feed is meaningless but people will read it as I have doneAnd then wonder why you even bothered posting it.
Quote from: bpoolrover on August 27, 2018, 02:09:23 amhttps://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble. Someone else point of view on it, don’t know why it quoted everyone on last postBpoolYou are repeatedly making my point for me.The only people who support Brexit are ideologically fixated politicians, crooks and journalists who think that they are cleverer than anyone else.Simon Jenkins falls into the latter category. He has no expertise whatsoever on the economics of Brexit. He offers no solution to the Irish Border question. But he is so convinced of his own infallibility that he regularly pronounces on a whole set of issues, most of which he turns out to be wrong about.I'll give you my two pennorth. I don't give a flying f**k what opinions journalists and MPs have on Brexit. I'm not interested in their assurances that everything will be OK, or their comments on the Will of the People, or anything else about their opinions. What I DO listen to is the judgement of people who spend their professional life carefully analysing facts about economics and trade. And as I keep saying, I've yet to hear anything from any of those which says that Brexit will be anything less than a very serious problem - most of them say it will be a f**king catastrophe.You, on the other hand, seem determined to go scavenging round for articles that support your preconceived decision, whilst ignoring anything from anyone who actually has any expertise on the Brexit issues.
Aye. Like a hole in an argument.
BPool.1) Financial crash. There is a big point about crashes. No one can predict them. Because they depend on the interaction between many unpredictable reactions across the world. So in the case of the Great Financial Crash, no one knew how Bush's Govt would react to the failure of a major bank. No one knew just how badly leveraged banks were against a crazy housing bubble.2) On SPECIFIC issues, like the consequence of a country deciding to make it far harder to trade with half a billion of the richest people on its doorstep, it's much easier to make predictions.Here's an obvious analogy.No one can predict exactly where every side will finish in the Premier league this year. There are too many variables that can't be guessed at. Injuries. Form. Stupid managerial decisions. inspired managerial decisions. Investment. lack of investment.BUT.If Spurs decide to play every match with three players having their legs tied together, you could pretty accurately predict that they would do much worse than they did last season.That's the equivalent of trying to predict the effect on the whole world of the Great Financial Crash and trying to predict the effect on our country of Brexit.And finally, as regards the belief in experts, here's a quote from that article you posted."Former Tory ministers, including the former foreign secretary William Hague and the former justice secretary Michael Gove, last year attacked the Bank of England governor, Mark Carney, for predicting a dramatic slowdown in growth if the country voted to leave the EU."Thing is, we HAVE had a dramatic slowdown in growth since the vote. That is a fact. In 2016 we had the fastest growing economy in the G7. Now we have the slowest growing economy. We've lost about £60bn as a result of that slowdown.Me, I'm f**king livid at that, because it means that I have to work harder just to stand still. Seems like you don't give a f**k about that. and that you still refuse to accept that the people who predicted that might have had a point.
No Sproty.I say that Minford is an ideologically driven menace.He is one of the right-wing economists (and there are many) who makes a logical case for why right-wing policies CAN work in the long run, but glosses over the fact that in the meantime there will be horrific disolocations to an economy.I didn't discredit him. I DO say that the one and only time his policies were put into effect (by Thatcher in 1981) the immediate and medium term effects were appalling, especially for areas like South Yorkshire. He may well have been right to claim that, if Thatcher had held her nerve, things would have worked out right in the end. Equally, he may well be right that if we follow his prescription on Brexit, we'd come out with a stronger economy by 2040. But it's all beside the point. Because the effect in the meatime would be horrific, just like it was horrific in the 1980s. And no Govt would go through with that. just like even Thatcher bottled it and binned him in 1982.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on August 27, 2018, 09:59:07 pmNo Sproty.I say that Minford is an ideologically driven menace.He is one of the right-wing economists (and there are many) who makes a logical case for why right-wing policies CAN work in the long run, but glosses over the fact that in the meantime there will be horrific disolocations to an economy.I didn't discredit him. I DO say that the one and only time his policies were put into effect (by Thatcher in 1981) the immediate and medium term effects were appalling, especially for areas like South Yorkshire. He may well have been right to claim that, if Thatcher had held her nerve, things would have worked out right in the end. Equally, he may well be right that if we follow his prescription on Brexit, we'd come out with a stronger economy by 2040. But it's all beside the point. Because the effect in the meatime would be horrific, just like it was horrific in the 1980s. And no Govt would go through with that. just like even Thatcher bottled it and binned him in 1982.The antics of the NUM were mainly responsible for the economic decline in South Yorkshire, they took on the Government of the time ,they lost the battle, the Thatcher Goverment then decided to teach us all a lesson and totally neglected the area for almost a decade. Quoting South Yorkshire is a poor example of economic mismanagement it was done on purpose.
Last year, Britain exported £2.4bn worth of goods to the six African countries included in Ms May’s deal - just 0.7 per cent of the value of its exports to the EU and the rest of the world combined, which were worth £339bn.
Hey Sproty, never say I dont give you a leg up or respect your views, here is a freebie, maybe a first on this thread, something to celebrate, a good news story, something that will bring a warm glow to everyones heart. People will remember this as the turning point, a point in time when the Brexit fairy tale delivered. There are critics but just ignore them and feel the love.Last year, Britain exported £2.4bn worth of goods to the six African countries included in Ms May’s deal - just 0.7 per cent of the value of its exports to the EU and the rest of the world combined, which were worth £339bn.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZAwoip5aYhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-trade-deal-africa-theresa-may-trip-post-brexit-eu-rollover-a8511871.html
Quote from: SydneyRover on August 29, 2018, 04:09:43 amHey Sproty, never say I dont give you a leg up or respect your views, here is a freebie, maybe a first on this thread, something to celebrate, a good news story, something that will bring a warm glow to everyones heart. People will remember this as the turning point, a point in time when the Brexit fairy tale delivered. There are critics but just ignore them and feel the love.Last year, Britain exported £2.4bn worth of goods to the six African countries included in Ms May’s deal - just 0.7 per cent of the value of its exports to the EU and the rest of the world combined, which were worth £339bn.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZAwoip5aYhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-trade-deal-africa-theresa-may-trip-post-brexit-eu-rollover-a8511871.htmlHey Sydney, interesting to see that an agriculturally backward Nation is planning to take advantage of Brexit and intends sending us such delicacies as burnt Goat Heads and GM Modified meat, a right set of scumbag scoundrels by all accounts!https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-meat-banned-eu-australia-beef-liam-fox-dit-friends-of-the-earth-a8475006.html
BpoolThat is nonsense.There are SOME economists who are frequently wrong. Like the ones who said that Austerity would produce an expansion in the economy in 2010. Or the one who said that massively raising interest rates and cutting Govt spending at the bottom of the recession in 1981 would spur the economy. (That last one is Patrick Minford - the Govt followed is advice in 1981 and it led to unemployment nearly trebling before they quietly ditched him).Then again, there are economists who predicted that Austerity was a disaster which wold massively delay recovery from the Great Recession. They were bang on.The same economists predicted that the Brexit vote would lead to a collapse in the Pound and to a sharp slow down in economic growth (and yes BB, before you start again, I KNOW that Osborne sold that as meaning that there would be a recession and there wasn't a recession because the global economy did better than expected but that doesn't mean the economists were wrong.)The same economists are predicting that Brexit will have a very serious long-term negative effect on our economy. Minford is saying that it could all work out fine (but even he is saying that it could only work out fine if we cut import tariffs to zero and he accepts that this would destroy the British manufacturing industry and he says that the big Northern cities should be handled by "managed decline" as a result).Now. ask yourself why the likes of Gove encourage you to ignore experts. And why everyone on the Brexit side of the argument poo-poos the idea that anyone can predict the effect of Brexit on the economy (and their poo-pooing has certainly worked on you). Could it be because they know there is not a single sensible, credible economist who things it will turn out well? Whilst there are literally dozens who have been right on all the major issues of the last decade who are saying that it will be a f**king catastrophe?
Seen this thread going for ages so thought I'd have a quick gander.I'm happy everyone's at each other's throats. I'd be disappointed if it was a proper debate without anyone throwing sly digs at one another.Carry on, all.