Trump and democracy

[SydneyRover]

Meanwhile in the real world Ossoff leads by 27,000 votes and is projected to win

[wilts rover]

  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

You mean like that bloke shouting 'Britain First' before murdering an MP?

I'm not a fascist - it's a complete coincidence I support the same things they do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye.

Let me translate Selby's gibberish.

If your side had had people as unhinged and criminal as my side, they might have done unhinged and criminal acts.

Utterly pathetic. But sadly, not unexpected.

[Filo]

A woman has died as a result of Trumps incitement to violence, which Country will he flee to to claim asylum? He’s toast, lots of republicans disgusted

[BillyStubbsTears]

If there's one lesson from tonight it is this.

When you allow and encourage a world of alternative "facts" and conspiracy theories, THIS is where it leads.

It is a wake up for everyone to start getting f**king serious about this and stop wallowing in listening only to what they want the truth to be.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

Are you including Boris in your undermining of democracy, given that he voted against Brexit numerous times?

[MachoMadness]

Articles of impeachment reportedly being drawn up, Pence is being urged to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove him. Either way is there any way he isn't turfed out of office now?

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM
Pence has de facto taken over from Trump tonight. Apparently it was Pence, not Trump who instructed the National Guard to go in. That should have been the President's decision.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1346968204250378244

[Filo]

This woman wasn’t happy about how she was treated during her revolution

[Not Now Kato]

  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

Are you including Boris in your undermining of democracy, given that he voted against Brexit numerous times?

Don't forget Mogg and the rest of the ERG, Glyn.  I think it's time selby took the blinkers off.

[wilts rover]

  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

Are you including Boris in your undermining of democracy, given that he voted against Brexit numerous times?

Don't forget Mogg and the rest of the ERG, Glyn.  I think it's time selby took the blinkers off.

You mean Jacob Rees Mogg - the bloke who said there should be TWO referendums I presume?

https://twitter.com/jamesmelville/status/1070632545077858304?lang=en

And that Farage bloke:

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/951400764697653248?lang=en

Selby better put them on his list. Wonder why he left them off in the first place?

[BillyStubbsTears]

So, back in 2016, when we already knew that Trump was a dangerous, unhinged sociopath, a Republican-leaning general said it was safe to elect him because if he tried to do anything dangerous, the grown ups would stop him.  I recall reading that and thinking that promising a de facto coup d'etat as a means of reassuring us that it was safe to elect Trump was...let's say unusual.

But I'm guessing that is what is happening now. The Republican party will not impeach him, or invoke Article 25 because they are scared of losing the support of the rednecks who love Trump. But, hopefully, they have locked him in a room and kept him away from the nuclear football. If they have, that is a de facto coup.

[selby]

  What have you and your mates got on Kato a bucket? I bet you drive a car that only turns left.
   I have to apologise to those of you who are that big headed you can't get a bucket on.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Selby, you excel yourself. I honestly thought you couldn't make yourself look any more ridiculous, but I was wrong. Well done!

[MachoMadness]

Sorry for supporting fascism, armed fascist coups and white nationalist terrorism are inexcusable whatever your political views and I see that now

Fixed that for you Selby. Assume this is what you meant, otherwise it seems like you're a big fascist.

[Dutch Uncle]

I often try and stay away from saying controversial things, but for Trump I will make an exception.

He has massively overplayed his hand last night. He has lost a lot of important support, but more importantly another consequence IMHO is that the equation regarding whether to prosecute him after he leaves office or not has changed. There was at least some feeling (which I disagree with) that prosecuting him might be more divisive for the nation than it was worth. Now surely the new administration’s Attorney General has to bring the most serious charges. That would also mean co-conspirators, including his children and son-in-law will also face charges, and hopefully thus bar any of them from ever seeking office?

Trump’s shenanigans in Georgia also lost the Republicans the Senate, and now at least for the first two years, until the mid-terms, the new Administration should be able to pass laws to close the loopholes that allowed Trump to get so far, and better protect US democracy from a future presumably far smarter would-be dictator.   

So, sadly, while the loss of 4 lives is definitely tragic, maybe if this means the future of democracy in the US is better protected as a result, then maybe not a disastrous outcome. Far more (surely in the hundreds of thousands) have lost their lives purely through Trump’s self-serving handling of the pandemic. 

Other democracies should take note, particularly as BST points out, of the consequences of allowing a leader to propagate alternate realities to masses.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Good luck America. I think you're going to need it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1347082094560882688

1 in 5 supports the storming of the Capitol. Nearly 50% of Republicans.

My God.

I never understood how Hitler was able to come to power when he was so obviously evil and unhinged. THIS is how. When people prefer to believe the alternative universe of facts that makes a patriotic virtue out of criminality and sedition.

[Donnywolf]

I find it quite strange reading Twitter that as many as 52% of the Electorate felt that there was "enough" fraud in the Presedential Election to have affected the result

I move on offering no other comment other than - get a different system maybe - removing the Electoral College system with a simple popular vote system.

However having said that if people think (or think after being told) that the electoral sytem is "rigged" I dont suppose however the result is arrived at will be believed

Maybe Rock Paper Scissors at the Half Time Show every 4th Superbowl ?


 

[Glyn_Wigley]

I find it quite strange reading Twitter that as many as 52% of the Electorate felt that there was "enough" fraud in the Presedential Election to have affected the result

I move on offering no other comment other than - get a different system maybe - removing the Electoral College system with a simple popular vote system.

However having said that if people think (or think after being told) that the electoral sytem is "rigged" I dont suppose however the result is arrived at will be believed

Maybe Rock Paper Scissors at the Half Time Show every 4th Superbowl ?


 

I don't think changing from a college system to a direct election would have stopped Trump from crying fraud in the slightest.

[wilts rover]

Anyone thinking those people are outcasts or marginal to society should also think again.

Interview with the President of the Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police Lodge:

https://twitter.com/ChipMitchell1/status/1347207462097715200

[ravenrover]

So 3 people died and 1 person was shot dead, wonder what the stats would have been if the protestors had been predominantly black?

[Filo]

Although its sad that a woman got shot dead, what did she expect would happen if the tried to break into the chamber with armed Secret Service agents behind the doors? She followed the mob, incited by Trump and paid the ultimate price for it

[wilts rover]

Ex USAF veteran

https://news.sky.com/story/ashli-babbitt-trump-supporter-shot-dead-in-capitol-was-air-force-veteran-12181190

[Ldr]

Act stupid, expect pain....

[Superspy]

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" could have basically been the slogan for US politics for the last 4 years culminating in this shit-show. Here's hoping, as DU said above, that now the Dem's hold all of the power (for the first time in a while) they can use it for the greater good.

[SydneyRover]

And the enablers we should thank ........

''Labour pointed to interviews in which Boris Johnson said Trump was as worthy of the Nobel peace prize as Barack Obama and described him as a standard New York liberal. In 2018 Johnson said: “I am increasingly admiring of Donald Trump. I have become more and more convinced that there is method in his madness.” Photos of Michael Gove, the now Cabinet Office minister and prominent Brexit campaigner, grinning thumbs-up alongside the president caught the initial mood''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/07/tory-party-leaders-back-pedal-on-trump-after-us-congress-chaos

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sydney

Those are quotes that we should never forget.

The rats now abandoning the good ship Trump, saying "Well I never expected him to go THAT far" are a disgrace. It's been obvious from day one that it would end in this way. Anyone who claims otherwise has either had their eyes closed, or were prepared to ride the Trump tiger when they thought it benefited them, intending to jump off when it started devouring everything around it. Either way they are a disgrace to politics. We should never forget those who expressed support and admiration for the biggest criminal lunatic ever to have taken power in America and we should judge them by those actions.

[MachoMadness]

Trump has finally, through gritted teeth, conceded, it looks like. Probably a last ditch effort to avoid getting hoyed out by the impending impeachment proceedings.

[Donnywolf]

I still find it incredible that he got 70 million people to support him in the Presedential Election. To me a mere outsider from another "democracy" he seems quite mad and didnt ever seem to me to be the Leader of the free world as I have experienced in former Presidents whether Dem or Rep

He seemed to be President of a very small "world" and still in fact does. I have been staggered that he could come on TV / Twitter and seemingly incite the march on the Capitol building whether he wanted what happened later to happen. He then "called them off" but made sure he wove in the words "we had the election stolen - we won - by a landslide in fact - and everyone knows it"

I cannot ever recall anything that seems as far out as that statement although yesterday I saw a poll that said 52% of the Electorate thought the result had been altered by "cheating" which seems strange and probably wrong but I cant find it any more

I would have thought it would be getting on for 60 to 66 % of voters who would have thought the result fair and involved no cheating - then today he has said he will hand over power in an orderly way and all those who ransacked the Capitol were criticised by him and those who committed crime would be punished ? Really ? So that was 3 different stances in less than 48 hours.

In response to the 2 posts above - I think what he has done since the last vote was cast is not concede at all and I am afraid he is never going to and his latest speech I would be wary of. We have seen what he could do and has done and he seems as cunning as they come so is that "latest broadcast" a way to buy time so he isnt thrown out bedore he gets to his last ditch "play" cos I dont know

The one good thing is that surely with the Rats (belatedly) leaving the ship and what a large swathe of the Electorate have now seen and distanced themselves from might just MIGHT prevent him rerunning on 2024 - or will it ? The Rats may well have justified their support by saying "I didnt think he would go that far" but in truth why?

I thought he seemed "quite mad" for a President right from the start of his tenure and all it needed was for them to look at a mere Forum of a Football Club 3000+ from the USA and read what we have been saying all that time. And we were largely bystanders with no votes but certainly had credible views in the main as do the posters on various other Forums you choose to look at be they Football, Aircraft spotting, Bird watching, Home Brewing or any other thing you choose to look at  because most of the free world were telling them for years.

[Ldr]

If you ignore the 2 coasts, america is populated by paranoid redneck hicks.