Channel crossing record beat.(again and again and again)

[Metalmicky]

And if this gov't goes ahead and sacks 90,000 public servants we should all expect it to get worse.

''Redundancies as part of 91,000 job cuts plan ‘will be on 2010 terms’
Union says Cabinet Office officials confirmed voluntary exit schemes will be needed to hit PM’s target''

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/redundancies-as-part-of-91000-job-cuts-plan-will-be-on-2010-terms#:~:text=The%20civil%20service%20shrank%20by,and%20the%20Covid%2D19%20pandemic.

I work as a contractor in a sector where there are loads of civil servants and many haven't yet returned to work post Covid.  I can spend half my day trying to contact people by email who are apparently WFH and it is so frustrating.  If some of these folk are facing the chop then I for one won't be surprised or disappointed. 
 

[tommy toes]

Charlotte Lynch twitter/guardian

''EXCL: Senior Home Office source tells me Home Sec refused to sign off on hotel bookings for migrants at Manston last week “because they were in Tory areas”.
@LBC
6:32 pm · 1 Nov 2022
·Twitter for iPhone

This isn't surprising at all.
The Tories will always look after their own.
What's good for the party is first, last and always.

[normal rules]

Labours response to this crisis:

Labour has accused the government of allowing a huge backlog of asylum claims to build up, and failing to deal with the increased number of Channel crossings this year.
Earlier, the party's shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said “added bureaucracy” meant claims were taking 3-6 months longer to process.
She said her party would reduce this, and also wanted to reduce the number of people being sent to hotels, adding that “increasing the use of hotels is itself a sign of failure”.
She added there had been a “huge proliferation” in criminal gang activity driving increased crossings, including Albanian organised crime.
The party wants the government to set up a specialist unit within the National Crime Agency tasked with tackling the problem.


But here’s the thing. Labour propose to reduce the backlog and fast track asylum applications. I would very much like to hear the “what then” policy if asylum applications fail. I want to see a govt where we deal with these migrants firmly and fairly and quickly.  If they fail application then what ? Because if Labour came out with a policy of shipping these people straight back to say Albania within weeks of them arriving illegally then they would get my vote at the next GE. Something I thought I would never hear myself say. But we all know the truth of the matter. It simply won’t happen. And the asylum centres being set up around the country will continue to overflow. Hotels in seaside resorts around the country will continue to fill up. Our NHS will struggle more and so it goes on.

Failed asylum seekers should be deported back to their country of origin - Yvette Cooper on Channel 4 News just. It should be online in the next hour or so I should think. She had a good 5 minutes on a range on issues, the focus was on refugees and immigration, but it's worth watching it so you know what she said.

She did talk about closer co-operation with France to stop the boats. Personally I feel there should be a processing centre in France, Calais or elsewhere. So there should then be no-need for anyone to cross on a boat - and anyone who did probably has very little cause for asylum so should be able to be removed back quicker. But as far as I am aware that is not Labour policy.

And it’s beggars belief why this isn’t happening. Albanians should be put straight back on a flight to Tirana. They are not fleeing persecution, war or conflict. It’s that Simple.
And re French Co operation, didn’t we give them millions of pounds last year to help sort this? It hasn’t made a jot of difference. Things have got worse.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR
1) We are still receiving a tiny fraction of the number of immigrants that the rest of Europe is dealing with.

2) Reports today are that the Home Secretary has been told by officials that she is breaking UK law in the way she is housing the arrivals in internment camps.

3) The Home Office's own figures say that, of the applications for asylum that they have processed, only 4% have been rejected.

5) Here's the real question. In the light of all of that information, shouldn't we be making it possible for asylum applicants to make legal applications for asylum, rather than forcing them into illegally crossing the Channel?

On point 1, the uk is ranked fifth in the world for the number of foreign born residents (immigrants) in the world. Based on stats provided by World population review. Only surpassed by Russia, the USA , Saudi Arabia and Germany. Just one EU country.

On point 2. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Where else are they to be housed until a proper solution can be found?

On point 3. The stats provided by the home office for “processed” application are very misleading. The current asylum application process is complex to say the least. The 4 % they allude to will be those at the first hurdle. There are many many asylum applicants in this country who have been here 10 years, who are still pending final decision. Why is this? Because we have no current strategy to deport people for the uk  in the sort of numbers we would need to to bring this whole thing under control.

On point 4. Let’s not forget that the current uk govt policy for successful asylum application is that the applicant must satisfy 2 criteria. One is that they have left their home country, that’s the easy bit. The second is that they must prove that they are escaping persecution and for them to go home would put their lives at risk. As per the 1951 refugee convention. Albanians are leaving Albania because they are desperate for a better standard of living. That does not fit with current uk govt policy for asylum.

Do you have a source for that first claim? I'd be interested to see the numbers.

Bump.

[wilts rover]

Labours response to this crisis:

Labour has accused the government of allowing a huge backlog of asylum claims to build up, and failing to deal with the increased number of Channel crossings this year.
Earlier, the party's shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said “added bureaucracy” meant claims were taking 3-6 months longer to process.
She said her party would reduce this, and also wanted to reduce the number of people being sent to hotels, adding that “increasing the use of hotels is itself a sign of failure”.
She added there had been a “huge proliferation” in criminal gang activity driving increased crossings, including Albanian organised crime.
The party wants the government to set up a specialist unit within the National Crime Agency tasked with tackling the problem.


But here’s the thing. Labour propose to reduce the backlog and fast track asylum applications. I would very much like to hear the “what then” policy if asylum applications fail. I want to see a govt where we deal with these migrants firmly and fairly and quickly.  If they fail application then what ? Because if Labour came out with a policy of shipping these people straight back to say Albania within weeks of them arriving illegally then they would get my vote at the next GE. Something I thought I would never hear myself say. But we all know the truth of the matter. It simply won’t happen. And the asylum centres being set up around the country will continue to overflow. Hotels in seaside resorts around the country will continue to fill up. Our NHS will struggle more and so it goes on.

Failed asylum seekers should be deported back to their country of origin - Yvette Cooper on Channel 4 News just. It should be online in the next hour or so I should think. She had a good 5 minutes on a range on issues, the focus was on refugees and immigration, but it's worth watching it so you know what she said.

She did talk about closer co-operation with France to stop the boats. Personally I feel there should be a processing centre in France, Calais or elsewhere. So there should then be no-need for anyone to cross on a boat - and anyone who did probably has very little cause for asylum so should be able to be removed back quicker. But as far as I am aware that is not Labour policy.

And it’s beggars belief why this isn’t happening. Albanians should be put straight back on a flight to Tirana. They are not fleeing persecution, war or conflict. It’s that Simple.
And re French Co operation, didn’t we give them millions of pounds last year to help sort this? It hasn’t made a jot of difference. Things have got worse.

According to the latest figures I can find, August 2022, 53% of Albanian refugees were granted Asylum status. That is, it was accepted by this Tory government that they were fleeing persecution.

I think you will find that the French have stopped about twice as many people as have arrived. That is, without the money the government have given to the French the numbers could have been 3x as many.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62676829

[wilts rover]

And of the 53% of Albanians who were granted asylum - 86% of them were women being trafficed.

So rather than the false narrative some people have been keen to push, rather than these people being Albanian criminals they are mostly victims of Albanian criminals.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/braverman-asylum-seekers-albania-trafficking-b2215187.html

[Sprotyrover]

And of the 53% of Albanians who were granted asylum - 86% of them were women being trafficed.

So rather than the false narrative some people have been keen to push, rather than these people being Albanian criminals they are mostly victims of Albanian criminals.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/braverman-asylum-seekers-albania-trafficking-b2215187.html

Ooooh watch it! Your 'Woke mates' on here will be accusing you of reading the Daily mail?

[tyke1962]

From the wait for it .......BBC !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

[wilts rover]

And of the 53% of Albanians who were granted asylum - 86% of them were women being trafficed.

So rather than the false narrative some people have been keen to push, rather than these people being Albanian criminals they are mostly victims of Albanian criminals.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/braverman-asylum-seekers-albania-trafficking-b2215187.html

Ooooh watch it! Your 'Woke mates' on here will be accusing you of reading the Daily mail?

I do it so you don't have to sproty. See how good I am to you...

[normal rules]

Can someone explain why migrants at the immigration centre near Heathrow think it’s appropriate to arm themselves?

[wilts rover]

Can someone explain why migrants at the immigration centre near Heathrow think it’s appropriate to arm themselves?

Same reason that somone thinks its appropriate to petrol bomb the processing centre at Dover I suppose?

[SydneyRover]

looks to me like successive home office ministers have used migrants as pawns in their ongoing political culture wars but have shot themselves in the arse

[normal rules]

Can someone explain why migrants at the immigration centre near Heathrow think it’s appropriate to arm themselves?

Same reason that somone thinks its appropriate to petrol bomb the processing centre at Dover I suppose?

But he was a right wing terrorist. Acting on a deluded ideology. What’s their motive?

[wilts rover]

Can someone explain why migrants at the immigration centre near Heathrow think it’s appropriate to arm themselves?

Same reason that somone thinks its appropriate to petrol bomb the processing centre at Dover I suppose?

But he was a right wing terrorist. Acting on a deluded ideology. What’s their motive?

No idea. Let us know when you have done your research.

[wilts rover]

A new poll out today shows that instead of 'taking back control', a large majority of the public think Brexit has made our borders less secure.

According to the latest Opinium poll, 73% think the UK has not been in control of its borders since Brexit. Only 12% think Britain has been in control. Meanwhile, only 9% of the public believe Brexit has made Britain’s ability to manage its borders better, while 45% think it has made it worse.

Those who backed Brexit are also taking a dim view. Only 7% of leave voters think the UK is in control of its borders since Brexit, while 85% think it is not.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/most-britons-think-country-has-lost-control-of-its-border-since-brexit-poll

Vote Tory.

[Not Now Kato]

looks to me like successive home office ministers have used migrants as pawns in their ongoing political culture wars but have shot themselves in the arse

Sue-Ellen Cassiana certainly appears to have....
 
https://archive.ph/bsyyn
 
And it appears it's going to cost us, the tax payers!

[SydneyRover]

looks like braverman is bang to rights there Kato, telling porkies too I should think

[normal rules]

This from the Labour Policy Forum. He suggests pragmatic humane solutions yet only puts forward one. An utterly insane one at that:

It is clear that large numbers of older voters have moved to conservatism (with a small 'c') out of fear that immigration from the middle east, Africa and Asia is a threat to our culture and way of life. This fear has been obviously hyped up by the extreme Right, and the Conservative Party has also jumped on the bandwagon. 'Brexit' is one outcome to that process and the election of the conservative party the other.
Unfortunately I believe that the Labour Party under its previous leader turned a blind eye to this and suffered a humiliating defeat as a result. We must not make the same mistake again.
Obviously we feel uncomfortable with the idea of conforming to these extremist views, and I would not suggest that we do that. But there is a median position that we can adopt which recognises the problem and offers solutions other than pretending to close the doors on immigration.
I say 'pretending' because as we have seen with the continuous arrival of boats loaded with asylum seekers from France, it is obvious that the Conservatives have no solution to this. Brexit has deprived the UK of essential workers but what extremists see as the true 'aliens' are still coming across the channel.
I have some sympathy with the argument that many of the asylum seekers landing on our shores are 'economic migrants'. Making the UK an unwelcoming destination for them appears callous but I would argue that most of those arriving have paid for their passage to illegal people smugglers and are not fleeing war or oppression, Ukrainians obviously exempt from that.
International law prevents us from simply sending them back to where they came from but I believe that we should not be a 'soft touch', and I am sure all of those people who did not vote Labour at the last election think the same. We should therefore come up with some proposals for tackling this problem in a humane way.
Can I also suggest that we should make efforts to stop the flood of asylum seekers at source. People smugglers are conning these people, not to mention often causing their deaths. This is, or should be, an international problem and the developed countries must make much greater efforts to force the developing countries to tackle this problem.
I suggest that the UK increases foreign aid substantially, specifically targeting countries which are the source of asylum seekers, with the proviso that we must be sure the money is not being siphoned off into the pockets of corrupt leaders; perhaps by giving funds to reputable charities to do good works for the poor in these countries. It is crucial that we tackle the causes that drive people to emigrate illegally and I am sure that there is much more we can do at source.
In this context the Labour Party must be seen to recognise the problem and come up with humane and pragmatic solutions that people can believe in.
Thank you
Andrew Pavli

I’m sure the tax paying uk public will be crawling over themselves to vote for a party that thinks sending millions or more to countries like Albania, one of the most corrupt Nations on the planet, will help stop large swathes of them travelling across Europe to illegally enter and settle in the Uk. The tories are being seen to be failing to tackle the issue of illegal immigration.
But let’s look back a little further, the decision by Blair’s labour govt to allow citizens of the A8 countries free movement to come to the UK was fiscally sound as the economy was booming and extra skilled labour was valuable, but it was politically costly. The unexpectedly large migration from Central and Eastern Europe lent the impression that Labour could not control the borders. This is an issue which continues to dog the Labour party and contributed to electoral defeats in 2010 and 2015.
I have no faith that a labour govt will sort this issue should they get into power. I fear it will get worse.

[Sprotyrover]

A new poll out today shows that instead of 'taking back control', a large majority of the public think Brexit has made our borders less secure.

According to the latest Opinium poll, 73% think the UK has not been in control of its borders since Brexit. Only 12% think Britain has been in control. Meanwhile, only 9% of the public believe Brexit has made Britain’s ability to manage its borders better, while 45% think it has made it worse.

Those who backed Brexit are also taking a dim view. Only 7% of leave voters think the UK is in control of its borders since Brexit, while 85% think it is not.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/most-britons-think-country-has-lost-control-of-its-border-since-brexit-poll

Vote Tory.

Wilts stop quoting’Woke’ Cr’p since we left Europe we can have a look at all entrants, no more convicted Child molesters and Killers just sauntering on the Ferry  those 300,000 immigrants Germany let in a large proportion of who ran riot on New Year’s Eve Sexually assaulting Hundreds of German Women , now qualify for a German Passport fortunately we can now check em at the order!

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR
Remind me who Andrew Pavli is.

[SydneyRover]

''I have no faith that a labour govt will sort this issue should they get into power. I fear it will get worse''

Has it been getting worse while any other party has been in power over the past 12 years or so NR?

[SydneyRover]

Just a thought NR, if you would like to comment on other topics such as the police, nursing, NHS, Rail Transport, housing, river and ocean pollution, teaching for the same period and of course the economy it would be appreciated.

[normal rules]

Just a thought NR, if you would like to comment on other topics such as the police, nursing, NHS, Rail Transport, housing, river and ocean pollution, teaching for the same period and of course the economy it would be appreciated.

Having a pop at the individual and not the topic SR. Speaks volumes.
Given that Mr Pavil is probably no better qualified on political matters than any of us on here. I’d love to hear some thoughts on how Labour voters on this forum would tackle the issue of cross channel immigration. I noted his post because in the whole I thought he talked a lot of sense. His comments were balanced and sensible. Barring the ridiculous suggestion on overseas aid of course.
Immigration affects many of those other topics you raise. Which is why it is important.  Housing, the NHS, schools, the police and consequently the criminal justice system and prisons, nurses and travel. Oh and while we are at it, I don’t suppose Albanians care much for the environment and pollution. Their idea of recycling is to put stolen cooking oil in their diesel cars.
So please, I’d love to hear what your solution to this would be.
Or do we just continue to spend millions of pounds of tax payers money every day housing these people.

[SydneyRover]

I'm just trying to get a fix on what your priorities are, what would make a difference in your life, the UK receiving a few less boat people or being able to get an appointment at the doctors when you need one and a bed in a hospital that's not decaying (hospitals need 10bn spent to bring them up to scratch on buildings and equipment)

Yes immigration does make a big difference to the economy, not half or a tenth to what a well run economy would. Parliament having to chase a corrupt government around. The biggest difference immigration makes is it improves and economy.

[normal rules]

I'm just trying to get a fix on what your priorities are, what would make a difference in your life, the UK receiving a few less boat people or being able to get an appointment at the doctors when you need one and a bed in a hospital that's not decaying (hospitals need 10bn spent to bring them up to scratch on buildings and equipment)

Yes immigration does make a big difference to the economy, not half or a tenth to what a well run economy would. Parliament having to chase a corrupt government around. The biggest difference immigration makes is it improves and economy.

Might I remind you what the topic of this thread is firstly.
Drs, dentists, surgery, nhs specialists, hospital beds are already being taken up by those crossing the channel. And the cost of housing them is not helping the economy at all.
regarding my priorities and what makes a difference to my life,  I live in an area where we have huge swathes of Eastern Europeans living and working. I have no issue with them at all. They contribute. They help the economy. They integrate with UK life. We have Eastern Europeans now locally as PCSO’s. I have Eastern European friends.
But, with the specific case of Albanians, which I take big issue with, a considerable number of them bring crime and related issues with them. They have no interest in contributing to UK PLC. They are sending tens of millions of pounds back to Albania through Ill gotten gains in the UK as a result of prostitution, cannabis growing and human trafficking. To name but a few. Their familial culture is such that they have no interest in integrating with UK life and it’s people. They are here for one reason and one reason only. And that’s to take take take. With some very rare exceptions.
Do you realise that 1-2% of the entire male population of Albania has travelled to the UK this year alone?  Overlay this data with the deeply entrenched criminal networks Albania has rooted very substantially within most of their society and it makes for a very bad mix. The govt have concerns about this. The NCA and Europol and Interpol all have concerns about this. This isn’t another Windrush scenario we are talking about. It’s something much more sinister and serious.
I mentioned in an earlier thread about a group of 50 Albanians who had been housed in a local motel near where I live, One morning the staff there found that they were all gone. Disappeared. No trace of them at all. These are people the home office were supposed to be responsible for. God only knows where they are and what they are up to. This is just the tip of the iceberg. They are highly likely to be victims of exploitation and crime . They won’t be contributing to the economy or paying tax. They will be in a local car wash, or brothel. Or worse. As long as we allow them to come and stay, we are complicit to this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR
1) We are still receiving a tiny fraction of the number of immigrants that the rest of Europe is dealing with.

2) Reports today are that the Home Secretary has been told by officials that she is breaking UK law in the way she is housing the arrivals in internment camps.

3) The Home Office's own figures say that, of the applications for asylum that they have processed, only 4% have been rejected.

5) Here's the real question. In the light of all of that information, shouldn't we be making it possible for asylum applicants to make legal applications for asylum, rather than forcing them into illegally crossing the Channel?

On point 1, the uk is ranked fifth in the world for the number of foreign born residents (immigrants) in the world. Based on stats provided by World population review. Only surpassed by Russia, the USA , Saudi Arabia and Germany. Just one EU country.

On point 2. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Where else are they to be housed until a proper solution can be found?

On point 3. The stats provided by the home office for “processed” application are very misleading. The current asylum application process is complex to say the least. The 4 % they allude to will be those at the first hurdle. There are many many asylum applicants in this country who have been here 10 years, who are still pending final decision. Why is this? Because we have no current strategy to deport people for the uk  in the sort of numbers we would need to to bring this whole thing under control.

On point 4. Let’s not forget that the current uk govt policy for successful asylum application is that the applicant must satisfy 2 criteria. One is that they have left their home country, that’s the easy bit. The second is that they must prove that they are escaping persecution and for them to go home would put their lives at risk. As per the 1951 refugee convention. Albanians are leaving Albania because they are desperate for a better standard of living. That does not fit with current uk govt policy for asylum.

Do you have a source for that first claim? I'd be interested to see the numbers.

Bump.

NR.
Did you get anywhere with the source of these numbers? I'm interested in seeing them.

[SydneyRover]

OK NR, how many Albanians in your area that effect you are either illegal immigrants, criminals or both and how do you know?

What I am trying to get across, although this is a big deal to you as you are the one that keeps posting the daily mail type topic headlines, in terms of the cost compared to GDP it is an extremely small fraction. This series of tory governments has spaffed more up the wall in any week than the cost of all channel crossers put together.

All this government needs to keep getting back in power is enough people to get wound up about Albanians swarming across the channel rather than look at the important stuff.

[normal rules]

NR
1) We are still receiving a tiny fraction of the number of immigrants that the rest of Europe is dealing with.

2) Reports today are that the Home Secretary has been told by officials that she is breaking UK law in the way she is housing the arrivals in internment camps.

3) The Home Office's own figures say that, of the applications for asylum that they have processed, only 4% have been rejected.

5) Here's the real question. In the light of all of that information, shouldn't we be making it possible for asylum applicants to make legal applications for asylum, rather than forcing them into illegally crossing the Channel?

On point 1, the uk is ranked fifth in the world for the number of foreign born residents (immigrants) in the world. Based on stats provided by World population review. Only surpassed by Russia, the USA , Saudi Arabia and Germany. Just one EU country.

On point 2. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Where else are they to be housed until a proper solution can be found?

On point 3. The stats provided by the home office for “processed” application are very misleading. The current asylum application process is complex to say the least. The 4 % they allude to will be those at the first hurdle. There are many many asylum applicants in this country who have been here 10 years, who are still pending final decision. Why is this? Because we have no current strategy to deport people for the uk  in the sort of numbers we would need to to bring this whole thing under control.

On point 4. Let’s not forget that the current uk govt policy for successful asylum application is that the applicant must satisfy 2 criteria. One is that they have left their home country, that’s the easy bit. The second is that they must prove that they are escaping persecution and for them to go home would put their lives at risk. As per the 1951 refugee convention. Albanians are leaving Albania because they are desperate for a better standard of living. That does not fit with current uk govt policy for asylum.

Do you have a source for that first claim? I'd be interested to see the numbers.

Bump.

NR.
Did you get anywhere with the source of these numbers? I'm interested in seeing them.

If you look under world population review you may find them. Sorry don’t have the link.

[normal rules]

The

OK NR, how many Albanians in your area that effect you are either illegal immigrants, criminals or both and how do you know?

What I am trying to get across, although this is a big deal to you as you are the one that keeps posting the daily mail type topic headlines, in terms of the cost compared to GDP it is an extremely small fraction. This series of tory governments has spaffed more up the wall in any week than the cost of all channel crossers put together.

All this government needs to keep getting back in power is enough people to get wound up about Albanians swarming across the channel rather than look at the important stuff.

We have very few Albanians locally, currently.
I would give very serious consideration to voting labour at the next GE. But I would like to see a very firm, fair policy from the opposition as to what they would do with this issue. It may seem like a small issue in the grand scheme financially. But in the world I see and experience every day, it’s important. Crime and the fear of crime affects everyone in this country.
What’s important to me, is not necessarily what’s important to you.
I like your use of the word swarming btw. Very apt.

[SydneyRover]

Would you like to show me a link or is it confidential? it's quite normal when posting figures supporting and argument that the source of those figures are posted along with them.

How do these Albanian criminals compare in numbers to other ethnic groupings including English, Scottish and Welsh?

How do you know that the Albanians are 'boat people' and not here by immigration channels?