Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: normal rules on August 13, 2021, 03:12:34 pm
-
If the US and it’s allies don’t sort something out and quick, the Taliban will celebrate this anniversary by burning down the US Embassy in Kabul. And probably ours too for that matter.
-
The taliban were always going to regain control once we pulled out of there.
-
I don’t think anyone anticipated it would be so quick and so clinical. An American journalist has likened it to The fall of Saigon in ‘75.
-
It's one huge mess.
Before you know it the Al-Qaeda training camps will pop up again. They already have evidence London based wannabe Jihadis are travelling to Afghanistan to join the fight to topple the government.
It's going to be difficult to walk away from.
-
I don’t think anyone anticipated it would be so quick and so clinical. An American journalist has likened it to The fall of Saigon in ‘75.
To be fair NR, I did think it would be a quick regression.
-
20 years is a long time to have foreign troops based there, and not without loss of course to many. Seems that any bridges built over that time are very quickly going to be eradicated.
Easy to say troops should have never gone there in the first place, but it’s way too late for that of course.
I don’t know what the answer is. I expect there to be waves of displaced Afghans now packing bags and leaving to migrate to somewhere safer.
The remaining Taliban will never forget or forgive the invading troops and their host countries for the last 20 years either. It will be a hatred passed down through future generations.
I suspect Afghanistan will become the new North Korea if Taliban become the ruling govt there.
-
I suppose they could engineer a war between Sunni Afgahnistan and Shiah Iran and kill two birds with one stone.
That's what they would have done in the olden days.
-
I suppose they could engineer a war between Sunni Afgahnistan and Shiah Iran and kill two birds with one stone.
That's what they would have done in the olden days.
The West effectively did that with Iraq and Iran in 1981. We sold them the arms to kill 1million of each other. Didn't stop both remaining threats to us.
-
I suppose they could engineer a war between Sunni Afgahnistan and Shiah Iran and kill two birds with one stone.
That's what they would have done in the olden days.
The West effectively did that with Iraq and Iran in 1981. We sold them the arms to kill 1million of each other. Didn't stop both remaining threats to us.
Perhaps there is another way. Apparently the Russians aren't very happy about the prospect of a hardline Islamic state on their southern borders. Maybe they'll go and get bogged down in another conflict there?
-
Those chinooks airlifting personnel out of the American embassy in Kabul this morning do look very reminiscent of the choppers on the roof in Saigon.
-
All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight
-
This analysis by someone that served there ...............
''Every time we went in, the US military changed the goal posts, and made it easier to show success. And then finally, when they couldn’t even do that, they classified the assessment tool … So, they knew how bad the Afghan military was. And if you had a clearance, you could find out, but the average American, the average taxpayer, the average congressman, the average person working in the embassy wouldn’t know how bad it was''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/14/afghanistan-taliban-us-troops
-
It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban. But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.
I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.
-
All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight
The truth is that a significant proportion of the Afgan military probably had sympathies with the Taleban.
Changing a culture is an extraordinarily difficult thing. In the back of many people's minds in Afgahnistan will be a feeling that actually Islamic law is right.
I feel terrible about those Afgans who have more liberal views and what we are abandoning them to.
-
Afghanistan:
1. UK & USA funded & trained Jihadists to defeat the USSR.
2. UK & USA invaded Afghanistan to defeat the Jihadists they had previously funded & trained.
3. UK & USA abandon Afghanistan & its people to the Jihadists they initially helped to fund & train.
-
If only the world were that simple, eh?
This is the best short summary I've seen of how this unfolded.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfPaulPoast/status/1426508097711968258
Basically, there was no way that the USA was not going to take action on Afghanistan after 9/11. And driving the Taliban, with their pre-medieval social views, from power was a very good thing.
The problem was not focussing on the generation long state-building job that should have come next. Like Germany, and Japan after 1945. Like South Korea after 1953.
Instead, America lost interest in Afghanistan and prioritised Iraq, which was morally and practically wrong from the start.
After the Iraq invasion, Afghanistan was relegated to a military holding job. Until the inevitable, final withdrawal.
W Bush is unquestionably one of the most awful and incompetent US Presidents of all time. But he absolutely wasn't wrong taking on the Taliban in 2001. It was everything he did afterwards that was wrong.
-
But certainly the way the Biden Govt has managed this withdrawal looks to be an utter disgrace. They have undermined the Afghan Govt's position and public perception every step of the way.
-
In recent times the only real military support given to the Afghans has been air strikes. Troops on the ground have mainly been an advisory assistance.
-
The war on Iraq should never have happened.
The whole focus should have been on Afgahnistan and operation enduring freedom should have been just that. Enduring.
If they think they can just walk away from this... Think again. First the Taleban will brutalise the country. Then they will gear up heroin production as a key source of revenue. And of course the terror organisations will return emboldened.
This is a f**king disaster.
-
It appears the Afgan President has fled and left the Afgan people to their fate
-
All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight
Muslims don’t like taking fellow Muslims lives….
-
It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban. But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.
I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.
The women and children will be treat exactly as muslim women and children should be treat…….. I guess you have to go live in a Muslim country to understand……
-
"I am sure they (MP's) will be aware that there is no military path to victory for the Taliban...I do not believe that the Taliban are guaranteed the kind of victory that we sometimes read about.”
“We must ensure” the British legacy in Afghanistan “is not betrayed and that we leave a legacy in education of women and the security of the people of Afghanistan that is lasting and that endures.
Boris Johnson to the HoC, 8th July 2021
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1426915744911134730
-
It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban. But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.
I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.
The women and children will be treat exactly as muslim women and children should be treat…….. I guess you have to go live in a Muslim country to understand……
Sorry I'm not really sure the point you're trying to make with that?
-
I’m interested to know what the bearded muppets parading in the Afghan Presidential Palace with ak47’s think about climate change. Because when climate change takes full control of the human race, as it will, religion will be irrelevant
-
Just been looking on flight radar, theres about half a dozen US and UK military aircraft heading for Kabul
-
The war on Iraq should never have happened.
The whole focus should have been on Afgahnistan and operation enduring freedom should have been just that. Enduring.
If they think they can just walk away from this... Think again. First the Taleban will brutalise the country. Then they will gear up heroin production as a key source of revenue. And of course the terror organisations will return emboldened.
This is a f**king disaster.
:that:
-
Heroin production in Afghan never really slowed down.
6000 extra troops being sent now by the us
-
Looks like every male in the Countryside is suddenly Taliban, the only way to deal with this is too unpleasant to be contemplated by Democratic Governments, may the Chines will do a better Job!
-
Non Taliban leave afghan.
Then carpet bomb every f**king square kilometre. Twice over.
-
Heard something on Sky News today, that the Afgan Army outnumbered the Taliban 4 to 1, had all the hardware to fight the Taliban, how have they been defeated in a week, did they ever put up a fight, many many British service personel were killed fighting for their freedom, and they ran away, gave it all up in a week. What must the families of all those British soldiers that were killed be thinking now, or people like Ben Parkinson that suffered life changing injuries, all for nothing, Afganistan is back to where it was 20 years ago
-
Non Taliban leave afghan.
Then carpet bomb every f**king square kilometre. Twice over.
The pop of Afghanistan is 38m with and estimated 150,000 Taliban fighters, let's take that up to 500,000 just so we are not accused of fudging.
Better get the 4 star hotels ready.
-
Heard something on Sky News today, that the Afgan Army outnumbered the Taliban 4 to 1, had all the hardware to fight the Taliban, how have they been defeated in a week, did they ever put up a fight, many many British service personel were killed fighting for their freedom, and they ran away, gave it all up in a week. What must the families of all those British soldiers that were killed be thinking now, or people like Ben Parkinson that suffered life changing injuries, all for nothing, Afganistan is back to where it was 20 years ago
Now I'm not going to pretend I know much about this, but am I right in saying the Afghan's themselves aren't willing to defend their country against the Taliban?
-
Heard something on Sky News today, that the Afgan Army outnumbered the Taliban 4 to 1, had all the hardware to fight the Taliban, how have they been defeated in a week, did they ever put up a fight, many many British service personel were killed fighting for their freedom, and they ran away, gave it all up in a week. What must the families of all those British soldiers that were killed be thinking now, or people like Ben Parkinson that suffered life changing injuries, all for nothing, Afganistan is back to where it was 20 years ago
Now I'm not going to pretend I know much about this, but am I right in saying the Afghan's themselves aren't willing to defend their country against the Taliban?
It certainly looks that way.
-
All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight
Muslims don’t like taking fellow Muslims lives….
But that is what is happening.
Afghan women on the news reporting that groups of men are being herded together and murdered by the Taliban.
Pity anyone who did anything to assist the Allied forces over the last few years.
-
Biden and his people were worried about the optics of Saigon.
What they have here is worse.
America is defeated by a few backward tribesmen with AK47s. They have thousands of terrified, desperate people clamouring to get away at the airport.
And they are going to have to abandon most of them to inhuman reprisals.
This is an absolute shitshow.
-
Biden and his people were worried about the optics of Saigon.
What they have here is worse.
America is defeated by a few backward tribesmen with AK47s. They have thousands of terrified, desperate people clamouring to get away at the airport.
And they are going to have to abandon most of them to inhuman reprisals.
This is an absolute shitshow.
I'm not sure we're talking about a few backwards tribesmen RD but defeated the whole of the western allies most certainly are not just the US. The west should never follow each other in to invade a foreign country without a clear idea of why, why are we going there, what are we going to achieve, how are we to measure success and when are we going to leave. This will be a stain in Biden's copy book.
-
The Afgan men have a lot to answer for, instead of flocking to the airport in their thousands, they should be standing and fighting for their Country, like the Afgan Army they appear to be cowards
-
The Afgan men have a lot to answer for, instead of flocking to the airport in their thousands, they should be standing and fighting for their Country, like the Afgan Army they appear to be cowards
Afghan army soldiers could be headed home to protect their family, I would think they are burning their uniforms right now, if they stayed to fight and lost the Taliban could take make their family pay. They are generally tribespeople as is the Taliban and they don't see it the same way we do.
-
The Afgan men have a lot to answer for, instead of flocking to the airport in their thousands, they should be standing and fighting for their Country, like the Afgan Army they appear to be cowards
If the shit hit the fan here, would you stand and fight or try and get your family out?
-
The Afgan men have a lot to answer for, instead of flocking to the airport in their thousands, they should be standing and fighting for their Country, like the Afgan Army they appear to be cowards
If the shit hit the fan here, would you stand and fight or try and get your family out?
Yes, without a doubt, look at the pictures, I see no Afgan Women trying to get on aircraft at Kabul airport
-
The Afgan men have a lot to answer for, instead of flocking to the airport in their thousands, they should be standing and fighting for their Country, like the Afgan Army they appear to be cowards
If the shit hit the fan here, would you stand and fight or try and get your family out?
I've seen plenty of kids though.
Yes, without a doubt, look at the pictures, I see no Afgan Women trying to get on aircraft at Kabul airport
-
Easy to say what we'd do from here. The reality when you could be killed driving down a country road is much different.
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
-
And then you've got f**king idiots like this
https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/16/british-student-claims-to-be-stuck-in-afghanistan-after-holiday-to-warzone-15096354/
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
I feel for you, but remember, it wasn’t your fault, you did your job, the politician’s are to blame, and the Afgan Army for giving up with a whimper
-
Twitter thread from an ex-soldier who appears to know stuff:
Here's what actually happened in Afghanistan:
1. Feb 2020 @mikepompeo gives in to Taliban at Doha, releases prisoners (including current leader), ends sanctions and has Trump announce date.
2. Learning of this deal desertions within the Afghan forces immediately increases.
3. The Taliban immediately start the takeover. Offering amnesty and cash to village governors and military forces so they can just roll on through without confrontation.
4. Desertions start to snowball, this has been known for well over a year in the special forces community.
5. The Taliban works their deals for over a year and a half moving from the outskirts to the provincial leadership thus ensuring an unchecked march all the way to Kabul when the time comes.
6. US begins withdrawal, it doesn't matter who the president is, the Taliban rolls in.
Pompeo's deal and Trump stating the Taliban are a force of good that will fight terrorism was the final nail in the coffin regarding the morale/loyalty of the vast majority of the Afghani leaders and military. If you must play the blame game for the withdrawal, there's the facts.
https://twitter.com/turningbones/status/1427148692616777731
If you wanna argue about it - argue with him.
My thoughts and condolences with the Afghan people and all our troops who were deployed there - its not their fault.
-
Johnson sent 2 Para out on Friday - then went on holiday! No wonder he wouldn't recall Parliament over the weekend.
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1427234825363206150
-
It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban. But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.
I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.
The women and children will be treat exactly as muslim women and children should be treat…….. I guess you have to go live in a Muslim country to understand……
Sorry I'm not really sure the point you're trying to make with that?
I am not sure either the point being made, especially if coming out of a person with no 1st hand experience. I work in Saudi Arabia and my home when not at work is in Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao Philippines. And I can assure you neither regions are as what you are lead to believe or think. At least 50% of the management in my work are women here in Saudi. And back home in Mindanao, we have female family members high up in local and regional government, and 2 are Senitors. My wife is University educated so as to follow in the family tradition of local government when she is ready to take up duties involved. Basically as the old saying goes don't believe everything you read or are told in the media. Yes I accept there are reigions where its more tough for women, but your statement was aimed or appeared to be in general.
-
The Afgan men have a lot to answer for, instead of flocking to the airport in their thousands, they should be standing and fighting for their Country, like the Afgan Army they appear to be cowards
If the shit hit the fan here, would you stand and fight or try and get your family out?
Yes, without a doubt, look at the pictures, I see no Afgan Women trying to get on aircraft at Kabul airport
What would you do against organised militia armed with automatic weapons?
-
And then you've got f**king idiots like this
https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/16/british-student-claims-to-be-stuck-in-afghanistan-after-holiday-to-warzone-15096354/
Perhaps he believed Boris's reassurances.
-
Un believable footage of people trying to cling onto an American c17 plane when it takes off. Footage later shows them falling from what must be a fatal height as the plane ascends away from Kabul.
https://youtu.be/3XoV5gV2gUU
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
I feel for you, but remember, it wasn’t your fault, you did your job, the politician’s are to blame, and the Afgan Army for giving up with a whimper
What thoughts must be going through the minds of those who lost a son, Daughter,Husband,Dad, equally the ex service members who lost body parts or witnessed this occurring, it all seems it was for naff all all that suffering for nothing!
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
Thankyou for your service , next time your in belle Vue bar, you shouldn't have to buy a pint.
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
Thankyou for your service , next time your in belle Vue bar, you shouldn't have to buy a pint.
If he walked round the ground, he should be applauded, as should anyone who served their country in that hellhole.
-
Well, according to the Taliban leaders, the war is over. When do we start shipping back Afghan migrants?
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
I feel for you, but remember, it wasn’t your fault, you did your job, the politician’s are to blame, and the Afgan Army for giving up with a whimper
What thoughts must be going through the minds of those who lost a son, Daughter,Husband,Dad, equally the ex service members who lost body parts or witnessed this occurring, it all seems it was for naff all all that suffering for nothing!
I know someone who lost a Son 18 years old killed in Sangin by a sniper, they must be thinking it was all in vain, they lost a Son for nothing. Ben Parkinson, severely injured and brain damaged for nothing, what must his and his families thoughts be? And also the many more killed and injured service men, let down by by our political leaders who never go anywhere near a bullet or an IED
-
Un believable footage of people trying to cling onto an American c17 plane when it takes off. Footage later shows them falling from what must be a fatal height as the plane ascends away from Kabul.
https://youtu.be/3XoV5gV2gUU
That is horrific. That will be the grim abiding image of a total failure by the West's politicians. They should hang their heads in shame.
They have asked both our troops and the supporters in Afghanistan to follow our policians' judgement for 20 years. Then they wash their hands of the situation they created.
Just awful.
-
I did 18 months in total in Afghanistan, the place totally consumed my life from 25 to 35, and stole my mental health and well being.
I'm currently sat in my barracks trying to think about how I'm the lucky one because I got in and out in one piece.
I'm Devastated for the families of those who didn't come back. Kids who no longer have dads, for what? The taliban to return immediately, and those we trained and fought alongside to give up immediately.
Totally emotionally wiped out here.
It's hard to know how to reply to your personal experience without feeling a bit inadequate. I have had a couple of friends now and in the past that were servicemen and it was obvious that they had been damaged if not by specific incidents then certainly the cumulative effects of service life. I can never get it out of my head after meeting up that these men had not been cared for or looked after to ensure that while they served or when they left the service they are in the best space possible. Whether they saw themselves in trouble was something I couldn't and didn't ask but it is certainly something the service should have asked in private and helped them with. You have my sympathies and respect.
-
And then you've got f**king idiots like this
https://metro.co.uk/2021/08/16/british-student-claims-to-be-stuck-in-afghanistan-after-holiday-to-warzone-15096354/
This pillock is a complete tool, he seems to think he’s in a video game !!
-
Coalition nations have been hugely embarrassed by the Taliban, I'm not sure it helps to scapegoat Afghan forces without telling the whole story, they certainly gave their lives.
''The number of coalition casualties is much better recorded than Taliban and Afghan civilians.
Research by Brown University estimates losses in the Afghan security forces at 69,000. It puts the number of civilians and militants killed at about 51,000 each.
More than 3,500 coalition soldiers have died since 2001 - about two-thirds of them Americans. More than 20,000 US soldiers have been injured.
According to the UN, Afghanistan has the third-largest displaced population in the world.
Since 2012, some five million people have fled and not been able to return home, either displaced within Afghanistan or taking refuge in neighbouring countries''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58230075
-
Don’t shoot me down for being a tad optimistic, but with the Taliban claiming victory and their “war being over”, perhaps, just maybe, Afghanistan will become stable enough for Displaced Afghans to return?
-
For me the way bidens handled this is far worse than anything trump did .
Doubt he'll recover from this.
-
Didn’t the US and Taliban sign an agreement when Trump was President about withdrawal of troops, unfortunately Biden was too quick without seeing the consequences.
-
Trump’s only motive in signing that agreement was to capture as many votes as possible, he didn’t give a toss about the consequences
-
It is a difficult one though isn’t it.
I said a few days ago that I wasn’t surprised at how quickly the Taliban regained control but in my mind it was always going to happen when the Allied Forces pulled out.
Would it have been the right thing to do for our Forces to stay forever?
Just a thought really, if not the same situation as we have now could have happened in a few years time
-
Don’t shoot me down for being a tad optimistic, but with the Taliban claiming victory and their “war being over”, perhaps, just maybe, Afghanistan will become stable enough for Displaced Afghans to return?
There might be something in this.
I wouldn't trust the Taliban for a millisecond but now they are in power they have a duty to try and deliver economic improvement. Same as any government. If possible I don't think the UK should disengage. There are still ways to nudge them in a better direction.
The best thing we could do is legalise heroin and take away their source of income and the foundation of their power. Its a gangster regime as much as anything. The illegal trade of heroin does so much damage here and across the world. However I doubt western governments have the courage to try something as radical as that.
-
The Taliban are saying quite reasonable things in their press conferences today. The experience on the ground doesn't match all of this at the moment but the leadership are saying women can work, have an education and go to university. If they mean that, then it is a huge change in outlook.
They say they want to prioritise rebuilding the economy. They were even asking for partnership and UK investment. They say they want the world to trust them...
Very early days but this sounds better than we might have hoped for.
-
The Taliban are saying quite reasonable things in their press conferences today. The experience on the ground doesn't match all of this at the moment but the leadership are saying women can work, have an education and go to university. If they mean that, then it is a huge change in outlook.
They say they want to prioritise rebuilding the economy. They were even asking for partnership and UK investment. They say they want the world to trust them...
Very early days but this sounds better than we might have hoped for.
I heard something on the news this morning about that RD.
The counter argument was that the Taliban are trying to portray an improved picture for a while but that it is expected it will only last a short while.
Maybe just long enough for them to get the investment they are craving.
If it is true that they have been murdering men and boys since the takeover as has been reported it isn't the new promised land they have been suggesting it might be.
-
Normally under these circumstances the media is awash with reports from the ground telling the real story of what is happening. I’m not hearing anything if mass killings or blatant imposing of sharia law.
Maybe it’s because the media capability is severely hampered, but no news is good news. There is no real news of brutal regime, yet.
The scenes at the airport were horrific, but was this blind panic?
There are stories of women going into hiding, but no evidence of this being physically imposed.
The new ruling group know what the price could be if they are seen by the rest of the world to return to barbaric ways.
20 years has been a long time for those countries and soldiers that have committed time, effort, money and life to this cause. But it’s been 20 years that Afghans have had to adjust also
I initially thought there was going to be a bloodbath once the Taliban took over Kabul. But it has not happened. I really think there could be change.
Time will tell.
-
It could all be Bull, that's what those who have fled the Taliban think.
We won't have to wait too long before the reality becomes apparent.
-
Good to johnson and patel are on the same page
''They said that Johnson had “stressed the importance of not losing the gains made in Afghanistan over the last 20 years” and that the pair would speak again at a virtual meeting of G7 leaders in the coming days.”
The home secretary, Priti Patel, said refugees could “start a new life in safety in the UK, away from the tyranny and oppression they now face”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/17/uk-to-take-20000-afghan-refugees-over-five-years-under-resettlement-plan
-
At least the UK is committing to take 20,000 Afghan refugees and Biden has committed to getting 'all his people out' hopefully that will include all the collaborators, Australia via Morrison is hedging it's bets at present saying it can't get everyone out but it will try.
-
Article here suggesting the Taliban leadership may have difficulty controlling extremists on the ground.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/18/bidens-over-the-horizon-counter-terrorism-strategy-comes-with-new-risks
-
Double speak from janus johnson
''"It would be fair to say [recent] events in Afghanistan have unfolded and the collapse [of the Afghan government] has been faster than even the Taliban themselves predicated," he said.
"What is not true is to say the UK government was unprepared or did not foresee this."
so the government knew this was going to happen and he went on holls?
-
Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they? It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.
-
Double speak from janus johnson
''"It would be fair to say [recent] events in Afghanistan have unfolded and the collapse [of the Afghan government] has been faster than even the Taliban themselves predicated," he said.
"What is not true is to say the UK government was unprepared or did not foresee this."
so the government knew this was going to happen and he went on holls?
Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they? It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.
If the government are on top of things as they are attempting to suggest it would be an extraordinary to go away on the weekend you are expecting the Taliban to take Kabul and declare the war over, wouldn't you agree pud?
A reminder: "What is not true is to say the UK government was unprepared or did not foresee this."
-
Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they? It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.
True to a certain extent, but he’s the PM, and this applies to the rest of the executive, he/they should be available at any time during times of crisis, it is a requirement of the job
-
Even though he was on holiday for a few days he would of course have been available for people to get in touch with him.
If there were any decisions to be made it wouldn’t have been hard to do that from wherever he was.
-
Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they? It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.
True to a certain extent, but he’s the PM, and this applies to the rest of the executive, he/they should be available at any time during times of crisis, it is a requirement of the job
Not on duty on the day we lost the war, not very Churchillian.
-
Meanwhile, it appears that we have refused to give protection to the Afghan guards who protected our embassy. America has given its guards asylum. We've told ours they are not eligible.
What message does this send to the world?
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
-
Meanwhile, it appears that we have refused to give protection to the Afghan guards who protected our embassy. America has given its guards asylum. We've told ours they are not eligible.
What message does this send to the world?
It looks as though Raab's selfless devotion to duty has helped with a backflip as the government are now set to save the security detail, if they can find them and get them out in time that is.
-
I’m seeing pics this morning of a 25 mile fence the Greeks have erected on the Turkish border to prevent migrants entering .
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?
It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?
It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.
Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.
For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.
Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?
It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.
Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.
For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.
Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.
Well done wilts.
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?
It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.
Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.
For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.
Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.
Ty wilts. It was wrong of me to slur the whole forum also. My choice of word was perhaps a little harsh. I’m ex military . I’m sure some of those displaced afghans feel like they are being ‘holed up’ in a strange country.
-
There was a feature about the Afghans in Scarborough on our (NE) Look North yesterday evening.
All educated people, a lot of English speakers, the lady they interviewed was saying how welcoming the people of Scarborough were towards them. Relief all round seemed to be the tone of it.
-
''Parliament’s security watchdog is expected to demand to see the secret intelligence analysis behind the west’s chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, sources have said, after ministers claimed they were caught unawares by speed of the Taliban takeover.
The intelligence and security committee (ISC), which is chaired by the Tory MP Julian Lewis, has the power to demand intelligence documents and haul spies before it to give evidence.
Several sources close to the committee told the Guardian that its members were “extremely likely” to ask to see the joint intelligence committee (JIC) assessments relating to Afghanistan.
This would prove whether Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab were right to say that the speed of the collapse of the Afghan government and takeover by the Taliban was not anticipated.
And will those in the security watchdog inform the public?
And herein lies the problem, if this debacle was unforeseen then the security services have had a major failure. All the coalition forces appear to be guilty of allowing the US to run the show without asking enough hard questions and that goes back to each coalition government.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/21/uk-security-watchdog-could-demand-access-to-intelligence-on-afghan-crisis
-
well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.
You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?
It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.
Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.
For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.
Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.
If they are lodged in The Grand may their god help them
-
I see Raab is going to talk to the neighbours now all the shouting is over.
-
Just watching the first part of "9/11: One Day In America" on the Nat Geo channel on Sky. Never seen so much footage from inside before and following the fire crews. Utterly harrowing stuff.