9/11 20th anniversary.

[SydneyRover]

Coalition nations have been hugely embarrassed by the Taliban, I'm not sure it helps to scapegoat Afghan forces without telling the whole story, they certainly gave their lives.

''The number of coalition casualties is much better recorded than Taliban and Afghan civilians.

Research by Brown University estimates losses in the Afghan security forces at 69,000. It puts the number of civilians and militants killed at about 51,000 each.

More than 3,500 coalition soldiers have died since 2001 - about two-thirds of them Americans. More than 20,000 US soldiers have been injured.

According to the UN, Afghanistan has the third-largest displaced population in the world.

Since 2012, some five million people have fled and not been able to return home, either displaced within Afghanistan or taking refuge in neighbouring countries''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58230075

[normal rules]

Don’t shoot me down for being a tad optimistic, but with the Taliban claiming victory and their “war being over”,  perhaps, just maybe, Afghanistan will become stable enough for Displaced Afghans to return?

[Redandwhite]

For me the way bidens handled this is far worse than anything trump did .

Doubt he'll recover from this. 

[Hounslowrover]

Didn’t the US and Taliban sign an agreement when Trump was President about withdrawal of troops, unfortunately Biden was too quick without seeing the consequences.

[Filo]

Trump’s only motive in signing that agreement was to capture as many votes as possible, he didn’t give a toss about the consequences

[drfchound]

It is a difficult one though isn’t it.
I said a few days ago that I wasn’t surprised at how quickly the Taliban regained control but in my mind it was always going to happen when the Allied Forces pulled out.
Would it have been the right thing to do for our Forces to stay forever?
Just a thought really, if not the same situation as we have now could have happened in a few years time

[River Don]

Don’t shoot me down for being a tad optimistic, but with the Taliban claiming victory and their “war being over”,  perhaps, just maybe, Afghanistan will become stable enough for Displaced Afghans to return?

There might be something in this.

I wouldn't trust the Taliban for a millisecond but now they are in power they have a duty to try and deliver economic improvement. Same as any government. If possible I don't think the UK should disengage. There are still ways to nudge them in a better direction.

The best thing we could do is legalise heroin and take away their source of income and the foundation of their power. Its a gangster regime as much as anything.  The illegal trade of heroin does so much damage here and across the world. However I doubt western governments have the courage to try something as radical as that.

[River Don]

The Taliban are saying quite reasonable things in their press conferences today. The experience on the ground doesn't match all of this at the moment but the leadership are saying women can work, have an education and go to university. If they mean that, then it is a huge change in outlook.

They say they want to prioritise rebuilding the economy. They were even asking for partnership and UK investment. They say they want the world to trust them...

Very early days but this sounds better than we might have hoped for.

[drfchound]

The Taliban are saying quite reasonable things in their press conferences today. The experience on the ground doesn't match all of this at the moment but the leadership are saying women can work, have an education and go to university. If they mean that, then it is a huge change in outlook.

They say they want to prioritise rebuilding the economy. They were even asking for partnership and UK investment. They say they want the world to trust them...

Very early days but this sounds better than we might have hoped for.

I heard something on the news this morning about that RD.
The counter argument was that the Taliban are trying to portray an improved picture for a while but that it is expected it will only last a short while.
Maybe just long enough for them to get the investment they are craving.
If it is true that they have been murdering men and boys since the takeover as has been reported it isn't the new promised land they have been suggesting it might be.

[normal rules]

Normally under these circumstances the media is awash with reports from the ground telling the real story of what is happening. I’m not hearing anything if mass killings or blatant imposing of sharia law.
Maybe it’s because the media capability is severely hampered, but no news is good news. There is no real news of brutal regime, yet.
The scenes at the airport were horrific, but was this blind panic?
There are stories of women going into hiding, but no evidence of this being physically imposed.
The new ruling group know what the price could be if they are seen by the rest of the world to return to barbaric ways.
20 years has been a long time for those countries and soldiers that have committed time, effort, money and life to this cause. But it’s been 20 years that Afghans have had to adjust also
I initially thought there was going to be a bloodbath once the Taliban took over Kabul. But it has not happened. I really think there could be change.
Time will tell.

[River Don]

It could all be Bull, that's what those who have fled the Taliban think.

We won't have to wait too long before the reality becomes apparent.

[SydneyRover]

Good to johnson and patel are on the same page

''They said that Johnson had “stressed the importance of not losing the gains made in Afghanistan over the last 20 years” and that the pair would speak again at a virtual meeting of G7 leaders in the coming days.”

The home secretary, Priti Patel, said refugees could “start a new life in safety in the UK, away from the tyranny and oppression they now face”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/17/uk-to-take-20000-afghan-refugees-over-five-years-under-resettlement-plan

[SydneyRover]

At least the UK is committing to take 20,000 Afghan refugees and Biden has committed to getting 'all his people out' hopefully that will include all the collaborators, Australia via Morrison is hedging it's bets at present saying it can't get everyone out but it will try.

[River Don]

Article here suggesting the Taliban leadership may have difficulty controlling extremists on the ground.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/18/bidens-over-the-horizon-counter-terrorism-strategy-comes-with-new-risks

[SydneyRover]

Double speak from janus johnson

''"It would be fair to say [recent] events in Afghanistan have unfolded and the collapse [of the Afghan government] has been faster than even the Taliban themselves predicated," he said.

"What is not true is to say the UK government was unprepared or did not foresee this."

so the government knew this was going to happen and he went on holls?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they?  It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.

[SydneyRover]

Double speak from janus johnson

''"It would be fair to say [recent] events in Afghanistan have unfolded and the collapse [of the Afghan government] has been faster than even the Taliban themselves predicated," he said.

"What is not true is to say the UK government was unprepared or did not foresee this."

so the government knew this was going to happen and he went on holls?

Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they?  It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.

If the government are on top of things as they are attempting to suggest it would be an extraordinary to go away on the weekend you are expecting the Taliban to take Kabul and declare the war over, wouldn't you agree pud?

A reminder: "What is not true is to say the UK government was unprepared or did not foresee this."

[Filo]

Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they?  It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.

True to a certain extent, but he’s the PM, and this applies to the rest of the executive, he/they should be available at any time during times of crisis, it is a requirement of the job

[drfchound]

Even though he was on holiday for a few days he would of course have been available for people to get in touch with him.
If there were any decisions to be made it wouldn’t have been hard to do that from wherever he was.

[SydneyRover]

Pretty sure everyone is entitled to time off aren't they?  It wouldn't be very left wing to deny that Sydney.

True to a certain extent, but he’s the PM, and this applies to the rest of the executive, he/they should be available at any time during times of crisis, it is a requirement of the job

Not on duty on the day we lost the war, not very Churchillian.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, it appears that we have refused to give protection to the Afghan guards who protected our embassy. America has given its guards asylum. We've told ours they are not eligible.

What message does this send to the world?

[normal rules]

well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.

[SydneyRover]

Meanwhile, it appears that we have refused to give protection to the Afghan guards who protected our embassy. America has given its guards asylum. We've told ours they are not eligible.

What message does this send to the world?

It looks as though Raab's selfless devotion to duty has helped with a backflip as the government are now set to save the security detail, if they can find them and get them out in time that is.

[normal rules]

I’m seeing pics this morning of a 25 mile fence the Greeks have erected on the Turkish border to prevent migrants entering .

[wilts rover]

well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.

You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?

[normal rules]

well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.

You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?

It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.

[wilts rover]

well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.

You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?

It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.

Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.

For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.

Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.

[drfchound]

well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.

You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?

It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.

Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.

For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.

Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.

Well done wilts.

[normal rules]

well anyone wanting to help out can pop to scarborough this weekend where 92 of them are holed up in a local hotel already.

You going to go round and thank them for putting their lives at risk by working for the British government are you?

It’s indicative of this forum that you assume my post was meant to be in some way negative towards these Afghans. It’s not. There has been an outpouring of charity toward them so far with donations flooding in to the local rainbow centre.

Apologies, my mistake. I have just never seen the words 'holed up' used in a positive manner before. It usually refers to someone avoiding an enemy.

For instance they would be holed up in their house in Kabul but living temporarily in a hotel in Scarborough.

Its good to know the locals are looking after them, some refugees are welcome.

Ty wilts. It was wrong of me to slur the whole forum also. My choice of word was perhaps a little harsh. I’m ex military . I’m sure some of those displaced afghans feel like they are being ‘holed up’ in a strange country.

[River Don]

There was a feature about the Afghans in Scarborough on our (NE) Look North yesterday evening.

All educated people, a lot of English speakers,  the lady they interviewed was saying how welcoming the people of Scarborough were towards them. Relief all round seemed to be the tone of it.