9/11 20th anniversary.

[normal rules]

If the US and it’s allies don’t sort something out and quick, the Taliban will celebrate this anniversary by burning down  the US Embassy in Kabul. And probably ours too for that matter.

[drfchound]

The taliban were always going to regain control once we pulled out of there.

[normal rules]

I don’t think anyone anticipated it would be so quick and so clinical. An American journalist has likened it to The fall of Saigon in ‘75.

[River Don]

It's one huge mess.

Before you know it the Al-Qaeda training camps will pop up again. They already have evidence London based wannabe Jihadis are travelling to Afghanistan to join the fight to topple the government.

It's going to be difficult to walk away from.

[drfchound]

I don’t think anyone anticipated it would be so quick and so clinical. An American journalist has likened it to The fall of Saigon in ‘75.

To be fair NR, I did think it would be a quick regression.

[normal rules]

20 years is a long time to have foreign troops based there, and not without loss of course to many. Seems that any bridges built over that time are very quickly going to be eradicated.
Easy to say troops should have never gone there in the first place, but it’s way too late for that of course.
I don’t know what the answer is. I expect there to be waves of displaced Afghans now packing bags and leaving to migrate to somewhere safer.
The remaining Taliban will never forget or forgive the invading troops and their host countries for the last 20 years either. It will be a hatred passed down through future generations.
I suspect Afghanistan will become the new North Korea if Taliban become the ruling govt there.

[River Don]

I suppose they could engineer a war between Sunni Afgahnistan and Shiah Iran and kill two birds with one stone.

That's what they would have done in the olden days.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I suppose they could engineer a war between Sunni Afgahnistan and Shiah Iran and kill two birds with one stone.

That's what they would have done in the olden days.

The West effectively did that with Iraq and Iran in 1981. We sold them the arms to kill 1million of each other. Didn't stop both remaining threats to us.

[River Don]

I suppose they could engineer a war between Sunni Afgahnistan and Shiah Iran and kill two birds with one stone.

That's what they would have done in the olden days.

The West effectively did that with Iraq and Iran in 1981. We sold them the arms to kill 1million of each other. Didn't stop both remaining threats to us.

Perhaps there is another way. Apparently the Russians aren't very happy about the prospect of a hardline Islamic state on their southern borders. Maybe they'll go and get bogged down in another conflict there?

[River Don]

Those chinooks airlifting personnel out of the American embassy in Kabul this morning do look very reminiscent of the choppers on the roof in Saigon.

[Filo]

All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight

[SydneyRover]

This analysis by someone that served there ...............


''Every time we went in, the US military changed the goal posts, and made it easier to show success. And then finally, when they couldn’t even do that, they classified the assessment tool … So, they knew how bad the Afghan military was. And if you had a clearance, you could find out, but the average American, the average taxpayer, the average congressman, the average person working in the embassy wouldn’t know how bad it was''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/14/afghanistan-taliban-us-troops

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban.  But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.

I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.

[River Don]

All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight

The truth is that a significant proportion of the Afgan military probably had sympathies with the Taleban.

Changing a culture is an extraordinarily difficult thing. In the back of many people's minds in Afgahnistan will be a feeling that actually Islamic law is right.

I feel terrible about those Afgans who have more liberal views and what we are abandoning them to.

[wilts rover]

Afghanistan:

1. UK & USA funded & trained Jihadists to defeat the USSR.

2. UK & USA invaded Afghanistan to defeat the Jihadists they had previously funded & trained.

3. UK & USA abandon Afghanistan & its people to the Jihadists they initially helped to fund & train.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If only the world were that simple, eh?

This is the best short summary I've seen of how this unfolded.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfPaulPoast/status/1426508097711968258

Basically, there was no way that the USA was not going to take action on Afghanistan after 9/11. And driving the Taliban, with their pre-medieval social views, from power was a very good thing.

The problem was not focussing on the generation long state-building job that should have come next. Like Germany, and Japan after 1945. Like South Korea after 1953.

Instead, America lost interest in Afghanistan and prioritised Iraq, which was morally and practically wrong from the start.

After the Iraq invasion, Afghanistan was relegated to a military holding job. Until the inevitable, final withdrawal.

W Bush is unquestionably one of the most awful and incompetent US Presidents of all time. But he absolutely wasn't wrong taking on the Taliban in 2001. It was everything he did afterwards that was wrong.

[BillyStubbsTears]

But certainly the way the Biden Govt has managed this withdrawal looks to be an utter disgrace. They have undermined the Afghan Govt's position and public perception every step of the way.

[ravenrover]

In recent times the only real military support given to the Afghans has been air strikes. Troops on the ground have mainly been an advisory assistance.

[River Don]

The war on Iraq should never have happened.

The whole focus should have been on Afgahnistan and operation enduring freedom should have been just that. Enduring.

If they think they can just walk away from this... Think again. First the Taleban will brutalise the country. Then they will gear up heroin production as a key source of revenue. And of course the terror organisations will return emboldened.

This is a f**king disaster.

[Filo]

It appears the Afgan President has fled and left the Afgan people to their fate

[sha66y]

All those British servicemen died in vain, young lives wasted, how have the Afgan Military collapsed so quickly, they have the hardware and the training to put up a fight, but it seems they never had the stomach for a fight

Muslims don’t like taking fellow Muslims lives….

[sha66y]

It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban.  But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.

I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.

The women and children will be treat exactly as muslim women and children should be treat…….. I guess you have to go live in a Muslim country to understand……

[wilts rover]

"I am sure they (MP's) will be aware that there is no military path to victory for the Taliban...I do not believe that the Taliban are guaranteed the kind of victory that we sometimes read about.”

“We must ensure” the British legacy in Afghanistan “is not betrayed and that we leave a legacy in education of women and the security of the people of Afghanistan that is lasting and that endures.

Boris Johnson to the HoC, 8th July 2021

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1426915744911134730

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's a sad aspect of modern society. We have decided it's too hard, it shouldn't be our problem and we will allow millions of women and kids be treated as they will be by the Taliban.  But at least we saved some money and effort it brought.

I do wonder what modern politicians would have done in the 30s and 40s dealing with the Nazi party.

The women and children will be treat exactly as muslim women and children should be treat…….. I guess you have to go live in a Muslim country to understand……

Sorry I'm not really sure the point you're trying to make with that?

[normal rules]

I’m interested to know what the bearded muppets parading in the Afghan Presidential Palace with ak47’s think about climate change. Because when climate change takes full control of the human race, as it will, religion will be irrelevant

[Filo]

Just been looking on flight radar, theres about half a dozen US and UK military aircraft heading for Kabul

[drfchound]

The war on Iraq should never have happened.

The whole focus should have been on Afgahnistan and operation enduring freedom should have been just that. Enduring.

If they think they can just walk away from this... Think again. First the Taleban will brutalise the country. Then they will gear up heroin production as a key source of revenue. And of course the terror organisations will return emboldened.

This is a f**king disaster.

 

[normal rules]

Heroin production in Afghan never really slowed down.
6000 extra troops being sent now by the us

[Sprotyrover]

Looks like every male in the Countryside is suddenly Taliban, the only way to deal with this is too unpleasant to be contemplated by Democratic Governments, may the Chines will do a better Job!

[normal rules]

Non Taliban leave afghan.
Then carpet bomb every f**king square kilometre. Twice over.