Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: tyke1962 on December 17, 2021, 06:17:15 am
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Lib Dems take it from the Tories , I think Bunter's a gonna in the new year personally .
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Just seen this ,they held that seat for 200 years with a massive majority, he will be gone soon
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34.2% swing to the Liddems, that is massive, Johnson is toast, no doubt about it
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Nightmare before Xmas for bojo.
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YES ...and oh the irony of it .
If JOHNSON hadnt tried to "save" his sleazy mate by trying to abolish the Committee that punished him with 30 day ban which originally he did ...
There would NOT have been a huge backlash which Johnson clearly didnt expect
That forced a 24 hour U turn
Johnson then threw Paterson to the wolves - and HE then resigned
So that forced a By Election [effectively made by Johnson]
... and a huge embarrassing defeat last hight in that By election - putting him right in firing line next
Oh and if he had done nowt to defend Paterson in first place his 30 days are up and he would be back in HOC and Johnson wouldnt be in such deep s**t
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This is a huge swing away from a very safe Tory seat and is without doubt a political hammer blow to bojo.
I looked at the figures though compared to the 2019 GE outcome.
It’s not a good sign for Labour either.
They got 12495 votes in 2019
Yesterday they got 3686.
The turnouts were different of course but Labour have gone from 22% of the vote to just around 10%.
Meanwhile the tories have gone from 62% of the vote to around 30%.
So both red and blue have halved their vote percentage.
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Of course it could have been better for labour but there's no getting away from the trashing of the tories, that's the headline. Yet another record broken by the tories, the last being the worst set of books for 300 hundred years, they deserve every bit of this and more, they have treated the British public with utter contempt.
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The Tories have won a seat they've never held and lost one they've never lost this year. Shows how fickle by elections can be.
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This is a huge swing away from a very safe Tory seat and is without doubt a political hammer blow to bojo.
I looked at the figures though compared to the 2019 GE outcome.
It’s not a good sign for Labour either.
They got 12495 votes in 2019
Yesterday they got 3686.
The turnouts were different of course but Labour have gone from 22% of the vote to just around 10%.
Meanwhile the tories have gone from 62% of the vote to around 30%.
So both red and blue have halved their vote percentage.
I suspect a large number of Labour voters either didn't vote or 'lent' their vote to the Lib Dems in order to defeat the Tories.
This is a huge defeat for Boris and the Tory Grandees will be sharpening their knives this morning.
As an aside, I thought Helen Morgan sounded nervous in her speech after the declaration. She was reading the speech rather than delivering it with gusto, which in my opinion missed an opportunity to really rub salt in Boris's wounds.
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This is a huge swing away from a very safe Tory seat and is without doubt a political hammer blow to bojo.
I looked at the figures though compared to the 2019 GE outcome.
It’s not a good sign for Labour either.
They got 12495 votes in 2019
Yesterday they got 3686.
The turnouts were different of course but Labour have gone from 22% of the vote to just around 10%.
Meanwhile the tories have gone from 62% of the vote to around 30%.
So both red and blue have halved their vote percentage.
My take on that, is a lot of Labour voters lent the Lib Dems their vote, not a great disaster for them in the Grand Scheme of things really
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I wonder if johnson will show the 1922 committee one of his model buses at the next meeting.
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This is a huge swing away from a very safe Tory seat and is without doubt a political hammer blow to bojo.
I looked at the figures though compared to the 2019 GE outcome.
It’s not a good sign for Labour either.
They got 12495 votes in 2019
Yesterday they got 3686.
The turnouts were different of course but Labour have gone from 22% of the vote to just around 10%.
Meanwhile the tories have gone from 62% of the vote to around 30%.
So both red and blue have halved their vote percentage.
My take on that. A lot of ppl who want rid of the tories don’t see Labour as the answer
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This is a huge swing away from a very safe Tory seat and is without doubt a political hammer blow to bojo.
I looked at the figures though compared to the 2019 GE outcome.
It’s not a good sign for Labour either.
They got 12495 votes in 2019
Yesterday they got 3686.
The turnouts were different of course but Labour have gone from 22% of the vote to just around 10%.
Meanwhile the tories have gone from 62% of the vote to around 30%.
So both red and blue have halved their vote percentage.
My take on that, is a lot of Labour voters lent the Lib Dems their vote, not a great disaster for them in the Grand Scheme of things really
There is also an argument that a lot of Tory voters just abstained and could not be bothered voting.
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This is a huge swing away from a very safe Tory seat and is without doubt a political hammer blow to bojo.
I looked at the figures though compared to the 2019 GE outcome.
It’s not a good sign for Labour either.
They got 12495 votes in 2019
Yesterday they got 3686.
The turnouts were different of course but Labour have gone from 22% of the vote to just around 10%.
Meanwhile the tories have gone from 62% of the vote to around 30%.
So both red and blue have halved their vote percentage.
My take on that, is a lot of Labour voters lent the Lib Dems their vote, not a great disaster for them in the Grand Scheme of things really
There is also an argument that a lot of Tory voters just abstained and could not be bothered voting.
Even further. A lot of Tories lent their votes aswell, a few of those interviewed this morning in the press too who'd voted against this time but admitted in a general election they wouldn't. Always the way with by elections but it sends a clear message. Don't things move fast?
I wouldn't read too much in to labour either, it's not really a labour area and likely never will be.
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This is a protest vote. Nothing more , nothing less.
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I don't think we can know that with certainty till the next one
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It is a protest vote, more than likely against Boris than the Tories.
I said a couple of weeks ago that he will be gone soon and this kind of reinforces my thoughts on that.
There will be much celebrating by Labour when he does get the boot but realisation that his replacement (probably Sunak) will do a much better job and make it harder for Labour, or the Libs, to make any headway.
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This could, in time, be a blessing in disguise for the tories.
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I'm never sure about the vox pops as the numbers can obviously be manipulated but the great majority I saw were those saying they had had enough of various players in the tory party. A few saying they liked him, he spoke his mind, johnson that is, they must like a bit of racism and abuse with their tea.
The turnout was down around 18000 votes. The LD candidate said that they had campaigned on other issues other than the tory party.
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It is a protest vote, more than likely against Boris than the Tories.
I said a couple of weeks ago that he will be gone soon and this kind of reinforces my thoughts on that.
There will be much celebrating by Labour when he does get the boot but realisation that his replacement (probably Sunak) will do a much better job and make it harder for Labour, or the Libs, to make any headway.
As useless as Boris is, he's a brilliant election campaigner. I can't see any of his prospective replacements being as good.
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The truth of the matter is this is one of the safest Tory seats in the Country, Tory in almost 200 years, it’s a massive statement of opinion against the current regime, a 34.2% swing replicated all over the Country would wipe them out
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Celebrations in this house, I hope they are waiting with baseball bats for johnson, for the covid response alone.
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The truth of the matter is this is one of the safest Tory seats in the Country, Tory in almost 200 years, it’s a massive statement of opinion against the current regime, a 34.2% swing replicated all over the Country would wipe them out
The 'Red Wall' MPs will be shitting themselves and probably be the first in the queue to stick the knife in.
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This is a protest vote. Nothing more , nothing less.
Those Tories who put their heads above the parapet this morning telling us that the peoples’ priorities are Covid / levelling up etc.
Clearly they speak for “the people”.
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The truth of the matter is this is one of the safest Tory seats in the Country, Tory in almost 200 years, it’s a massive statement of opinion against the current regime, a 34.2% swing replicated all over the Country would wipe them out
The 'Red Wall' MPs will be shitting themselves and probably be the first in the queue to stick the knife in.
I agree with that Glyn.
Politics is a vicious game to be in and people will stick the knife in to save their own necks.
We have seen it many times.
I think Boris is on borrowed time now.
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It is a protest vote, more than likely against Boris than the Tories.
I said a couple of weeks ago that he will be gone soon and this kind of reinforces my thoughts on that.
There will be much celebrating by Labour when he does get the boot but realisation that his replacement (probably Sunak) will do a much better job and make it harder for Labour, or the Libs, to make any headway.
As useless as Boris is, he's a brilliant election campaigner. I can't see any of his prospective replacements being as good.
He is Glyn but his replacement will have advisors who will help things along, don’t you think.
The public at large have been bombarded with stuff telling them how evil Boris has been so a new face could be welcomed.
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The truth of the matter is this is one of the safest Tory seats in the Country, Tory in almost 200 years, it’s a massive statement of opinion against the current regime, a 34.2% swing replicated all over the Country would wipe them out
The 'Red Wall' MPs will be shitting themselves and probably be the first in the queue to stick the knife in.
Not Don Valley MP Nick Fletcher, voted every way which Boris has told him since elected
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Does anyone think it is time for a change from Labour and Conservatives, I don't think Lib Dems are that much better either.
Where people start to vote other than the main parties like perhaps a people's party or something.
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People have to also rembember this was a place that voted 60% brexit and they’ve elected a pro european party, that is the scale of the victory
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The truth of the matter is this is one of the safest Tory seats in the Country, Tory in almost 200 years, it’s a massive statement of opinion against the current regime, a 34.2% swing replicated all over the Country would wipe them out
The 'Red Wall' MPs will be shitting themselves and probably be the first in the queue to stick the knife in.
Not Don Valley MP Nick Fletcher, voted every way which Boris has told him since elected
He won't be able to if he loses his seat and he knows it.
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People have to also rembember this was a place that voted 60% brexit and they’ve elected a pro european party, that is the scale of the victory
The thing is though Filo that Brexit is done now.
Many people have moved on.
Admittedly, some people will bang on about it forever but it can’t be changed, well, not without another referendum.
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People have to also rembember this was a place that voted 60% brexit and they’ve elected a pro european party, that is the scale of the victory
The thing is though Filo that Brexit is done now.
Many people have moved on.
Admittedly, some people will bang on about it forever but it can’t be changed, well, not without another referendum.
Purely a protest vote, although voting Liberal is not the answer. They're like the loony fringe of the Greens. You wouldn't be let out of the house without taking a covid test and they don't like people owning their own cars.
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People have to also rembember this was a place that voted 60% brexit and they’ve elected a pro european party, that is the scale of the victory
The thing is though Filo that Brexit is done now.
Many people have moved on.
Admittedly, some people will bang on about it forever but it can’t be changed, well, not without another referendum.
As I’ve pointed out on another thread, Hound, Brexit is far from done.
Tell my family in NI that Brexit is “done”.
BVB
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It is a protest vote, more than likely against Boris than the Tories.
I said a couple of weeks ago that he will be gone soon and this kind of reinforces my thoughts on that.
There will be much celebrating by Labour when he does get the boot but realisation that his replacement (probably Sunak) will do a much better job and make it harder for Labour, or the Libs, to make any headway.
I follow your logic hound but there might be another angle to this.
Whatever Boris's failings, it's clear from his victory in the last GE that he appeals to a certain type of voter, and there were enough of them to sweep him into power.
Sunak might appear to be a safer pair of hands but do you think he would appeal to those same voters?
I doubt it.
The UK electorate never cease to surprise me.
Sunak replacing Boris may, paradoxically, turn out to be the best thing for Labour, not the Tories.
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It is a protest vote, more than likely against Boris than the Tories.
I said a couple of weeks ago that he will be gone soon and this kind of reinforces my thoughts on that.
There will be much celebrating by Labour when he does get the boot but realisation that his replacement (probably Sunak) will do a much better job and make it harder for Labour, or the Libs, to make any headway.
I follow your logic hound but there might be another angle to this.
Whatever Boris's failings, it's clear from his victory in the last GE that he appeals to a certain type of voter, and there were enough of them to sweep him into power.
Sunak might appear to be a safer pair of hands but do you think he would appeal to those same voters?
I doubt it.
The UK electorate never cease to surprise me.
Sunak replacing Boris may, paradoxically, turn out to be the best thing for Labour, not the Tories.
Yep, I get that Pancho.
I guess there is only one way to find out but much water will pass under the bridge before the next GE.
Who knows what will happen before then.
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It is a protest vote, more than likely against Boris than the Tories.
I said a couple of weeks ago that he will be gone soon and this kind of reinforces my thoughts on that.
There will be much celebrating by Labour when he does get the boot but realisation that his replacement (probably Sunak) will do a much better job and make it harder for Labour, or the Libs, to make any headway.
As useless as Boris is, he's a brilliant election campaigner. I can't see any of his prospective replacements being as good.
I can't imagine any of his prospective replacements being as bad as Keir Starmer.
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They will pick a much calmer, concentrated, stronger personality, possibly a woman to attract the female vote and highlight past success, and will concentrate on the economy, immigration, and water down some of the transport and environmental policies, and wait until after the next election to introduce the most draconian tax rises all while pointing out the liberal and labour parties stance on those issues.
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You don’t mean….oh no…..not…not -
Liz Cheese!
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
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Notice there was around a 22% lesser turnout than in the 2019 election. I wonder how many of those were Tory abstainers?
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
Could it be a comeback for Jeremy Hunt?
He's the nearest they have to a human being.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
And you have Starmer!
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Notice there was around a 22% lesser turnout than in the 2019 election. I wonder how many of those were Tory abstainers?
I'm sure a lot of them were. And I'm sure they will regain that specific seat at the next election. With a lot of the abstainers returning.
The key question is how many of those 2019 Tory voters who are currently pissed off with the Tories actually return at the next election? There will definitely be enough for them to win this seat. But if just a quarter of them stay at home, the Tory vote would be badly hit.
They are going to need some very positive stuff to happen over the next couple of years to lift their fortunes. And there's nowt but grim struggle forecast. Falling real pay for 18 months, then stagnant growth after that.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
I would have thought Priti would be your choice as she ticks two of the equality and diversity boxes?
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
And you have Starmer!
Who currently has the highest approval rating of any Opposition leader 18 months into the job since Blair.
YOU don't like Starmer (while oddly, never criticising Johnson). Doesn't mean the country wouldn't vote for him.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
I would have thought Priti would be your choice as she ticks two of the equality and diversity boxes?
What? Fascist AND incompetent?
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
I would have thought Priti would be your choice as she ticks two of the equality and diversity boxes?
What? Fascist AND incompetent?
What's the choice on the other side of the house?
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The man with the highest appr...why bother?
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The man with the highest appr...why bother?
It's only by default because BJ is so pony. By the time the next election comes Johnson will be sat at home making buses out of cardboard boxes,Labour will still be fighting amongst themselves and the Liberal who won the by election will be sharpening pencils in the dole office.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
And you have Starmer!
Who currently has the highest approval rating of any Opposition leader 18 months into the job since Blair.
YOU don't like Starmer (while oddly, never criticising Johnson). Doesn't mean the country wouldn't vote for him.
Do you think they will? I'm unconvinced.
That I'm more likely to vote for labour under him than ever before suggests that for many he probably isn't going the right direction, but I think he's quite competent, a safe pair of hands. I do though feel if you compared him to football managers he's Roy Hodgson boring, safe but does a job and Boris is Mourinho, extravagant and quality for a short period of time before he loses the plot in self arrogance. Which of those do the electorate want?
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
And you have Starmer!
Who currently has the highest approval rating of any Opposition leader 18 months into the job since Blair.
YOU don't like Starmer (while oddly, never criticising Johnson). Doesn't mean the country wouldn't vote for him.
Do you think they will? I'm unconvinced.
That I'm more likely to vote for labour under him than ever before suggests that for many he probably isn't going the right direction, but I think he's quite competent, a safe pair of hands. I do though feel if you compared him to football managers he's Roy Hodgson boring, safe but does a job and Boris is Mourinho, extravagant and quality for a short period of time before he loses the plot in self arrogance. Which of those do the electorate want?
Neither. It's alright voting for Starmer when he's got the Red Brigade looking over his shoulder.
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Notice there was around a 22% lesser turnout than in the 2019 election. I wonder how many of those were Tory abstainers?
I'm sure a lot of them were. And I'm sure they will regain that specific seat at the next election. With a lot of the abstainers returning.
The key question is how many of those 2019 Tory voters who are currently pissed off with the Tories actually return at the next election? There will definitely be enough for them to win this seat. But if just a quarter of them stay at home, the Tory vote would be badly hit.
They are going to need some very positive stuff to happen over the next couple of years to lift their fortunes. And there's nowt but grim struggle forecast. Falling real pay for 18 months, then stagnant growth after that.
The Labour party are going to need to be more convincing too. As it stands now, getting a Tory voter to defect to Labour would be reminiscent of a Donny Rovers fan defecting to Scunthorpe Utd.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
I would have thought Priti would be your choice as she ticks two of the equality and diversity boxes?
Personally, I'm not convinced she is a woman.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
I would have thought Priti would be your choice as she ticks two of the equality and diversity boxes?
Personally, I'm not convinced she is a woman.
She's convinced me enough. Put it this way, she'd get it.
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The man with the highest appr...why bother?
It's only by default because BJ is so pony. By the time the next election comes Johnson will be sat at home making buses out of cardboard boxes,Labour will still be fighting amongst themselves and the Liberal who won the by election will be sharpening pencils in the dole office.
It's got nothing to do with Johnson. I'm not talking about polls on whether Starmer is better than Johnson. It's polls on whether, on balance, people approve or disapprove of Starmer. Generally, after a couple of years in the job, Opposition leaders have big negative scores because they are seen as being constantly sniping, but having no responsibility. The only one in the past 50 years who wasn't was Blair. Starmer is only slightly in negative territory, which is the best since Blair for an Opposition Leader 18 months in.
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They don't HAVE any calm, strong options.
They have:
Sunak who vanishes in a crisis and who is presiding over a shockingly weak recovery with real pay set to plummet next year.
Patel who is a Poundland would be fascist..
Raab who failed as Foreign Secretary.
Truss who makes May look socially adept.
Or Gove the coke-head.
All the above have consistently got worse ratings than Johnson in Approval polls.
I would have thought Priti would be your choice as she ticks two of the equality and diversity boxes?
What? Fascist AND incompetent?
What's the choice on the other side of the house?
Nothing forthcoming AL so don’t hold your breath too long.
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The man with the highest appr...why bother?
It's only by default because BJ is so pony. By the time the next election comes Johnson will be sat at home making buses out of cardboard boxes,Labour will still be fighting amongst themselves and the Liberal who won the by election will be sharpening pencils in the dole office.
It's got nothing to do with Johnson. I'm not talking about polls on whether Starmer is better than Johnson. It's polls on whether, on balance, people approve or disapprove of Starmer. Generally, after a couple of years in the job, Opposition leaders have big negative scores because they are seen as being constantly sniping, but having no responsibility. The only one in the past 50 years who wasn't was Blair. Starmer is only slightly in negative territory, which is the best since Blair for an Opposition Leader 18 months in.
Starmer must be a shoe in
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Seems to me and in my opinion neither Labour or the Lib Dems can beat the Tories at a GE .
However by joining forces at the next GE they most certainly can with a pre emptive view to form a coalition government .
If Labour had withdrawn their candidate the Lib Dems would have won even more comfortably and this could be repeated in a good many seats across the country and vice versa .
Labour and the Lib Dems can't be too far apart with Labour's shift to the centre and all it needs is some ego's getting pegged down and some self reflection to make it happen .
I've obviously no dog in this fight these days but it will be interesting to hear the views of Sydney , Billy and others and see if they are willing to take a spoonful of their own medicine .
You don't 100% get what you want so you have to compromise in order to get rid of the Tories .
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Tyke.
Of course I would. I support PR and that would mean Labour never having a majority.
I'd be delighted if there was a left-centre pact.
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A Lib-Lab coalition would be perfect for the liberalists.
With snake oil Chuka Umunna as leader.
Job done.
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They would never agree on whether the title should be LabLib or LibLab.
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Anything better than ConCon..
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''Boris Johnson ‘gone in a year’ unless he cleans up act, senior Tories warn''
Hands up those that think johnson can change?
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They would never agree on whether the title should be LabLib or LibLab.
Or even labia lips. Sorry, mate, I'm thinking about Ann Widdicombe again.
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SS I’m worried about what goes off in the recesses of your mind
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SS I’m worried about what goes off in the recesses of your mind
It doesn't bear thinking about.
She is a bit of a babe though.
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SS I’m worried about what goes off in the recesses of your mind
Don't knock SS, his taste for women politicians used to be a lot worse before his treatment. He used to have the hots for Margaret Beckett.
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Sydney's quiet on a coalition with the Lib Dems .
Just saying like .
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Sydney's quiet on a coalition with the Lib Dems .
Just saying like .
Have you asked me tyke? I've been asking you for ........... just about forever to show me the path to victory led from the left and all you've put forward is erm erm wiff waff.
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Sydney's quiet on a coalition with the Lib Dems .
Just saying like .
Have you asked me tyke? I've been asking you for ........... just about forever to show me the path to victory led from the left and all you've put forward is erm erm wiff waff.
Yes I've asked you Sydney it's the bottom of page two .
In your own time of course .
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I'll answer any of your questions, as soon as you answer the big one I have been asking for ages tyke, fair do's and all that ............. in your own time, you can phone a friend if you wish, I think Albie's struggling with the same question.
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I'll answer any of your questions, as soon as you answer the big one I have been asking for ages tyke, fair do's and all that ............. in your own time, you can phone a friend if you wish, I think Albie's struggling with the same question.
So you aren't prepared to align with the Lib Dems to defeat the Tories then ?
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59701369 ......... ?
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59701369 ......... ?
And ........... ???
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tyke I have you blocked for most of the time because you're a WUM and you waffle, so I can't be arsed, you're in no position to demand anything until you start making some sense and answering straight questions yourself.
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tyke I have you blocked for most of the time because you're a WUM and you waffle, so I can't be arsed, you're in no position to demand anything until you start making some sense and answering straight questions yourself.
Bless
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If it happens, I'd love to see some on here try to justify Keith getting into bed with a party that helped the Tories implement austerity measures, and reneged on their promises on student grants.
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With no respect SS, why should anyone care what you think about politics and politicians, you can't tell the difference between them and you don't vote.
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I'll answer any of your questions, as soon as you answer the big one I have been asking for ages tyke, fair do's and all that ............. in your own time, you can phone a friend if you wish, I think Albie's struggling with the same question.
tyke I have you blocked for most of the time because you're a WUM and you waffle, so I can't be arsed, you're in no position to demand anything until you start making some sense and answering straight questions yourself.
SR, if you have tyke blocked most of the time, how do you know that he didn’t answer your question (whatever it was).
Just curious like. :)
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Well I'll take no lessons from anyone on here apart from Billy on compromising to keep out a Tory government .
Only Billy is prepared to accept a coalition with the Dems to win a GE and he has my respect for that .
As for the rest well it seems you expect others to do the compromising whilst you do nothing of the sort which is something I've long suspected .
A coalition between Labour and the Dems is the Tories worst nightmare looking at the situation today .
A willingness to work together in the national interest is a smart play and exposes the Tories as the party of themselves massively to the electorate .
I'd even be tempted myself to tick the box on GE day if only to respect having the balls and will to do it and not necessarily any policies .
It's actually a very socialist thing to do when you think about it .
Putting the country first before your own political ambitions .
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With no respect SS, why should anyone care what you think about politics and politicians, you can't tell the difference between them and you don't vote.
Why should anyone care about the opinions of someone who left this country for a better life at the other side of the world?
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Well I'll take no lessons from anyone on here apart from Billy on compromising to keep out a Tory government .
Only Billy is prepared to accept a coalition with the Dems to win a GE and he has my respect for that .
As for the rest well it seems you expect others to do the compromising whilst you do nothing of the sort which is something I've long suspected .
A coalition between Labour and the Dems is the Tories worst nightmare looking at the situation today .
A willingness to work together in the national interest is a smart play and exposes the Tories as the party of themselves massively to the electorate .
I'd even be tempted myself to tick the box on GE day if only to respect having the balls and will to do it and not necessarily any policies .
It's actually a very socialist thing to do when you think about it .
Putting the country first before your own political ambitions .
With the greatest respect, Tyke, BST criticised the Lib Dems for their disgusting coalition with the Tories, just as much as I did. If he supported a Labour pact with them now, it would make him a hypocrite.
The Lib Dems are not to be trusted by anyone. They're full of snake oil.
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SS
I criticised the LDs for that coalition because they campaigned as a party that was to the left of Labour, then supported the most right wing economic policy since the 1930s.
All coalitions require comprise. That's the way of grown up politics. But they require compromise on both sides. The LDs gave in and enabled the utter batshit Austerity programme without the Tories having to water it down at all.
That was my criticism. Not against the principle of coalition.
I know you and a few others in here really want to be able to shout "hypocrite" at me. But you'd do well to read what I actually write and see if that does make me a hypocrite. Rather than deciding that I am and ignoring what I write.
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Well I'll take no lessons from anyone on here apart from Billy on compromising to keep out a Tory government .
Only Billy is prepared to accept a coalition with the Dems to win a GE and he has my respect for that .
As for the rest well it seems you expect others to do the compromising whilst you do nothing of the sort which is something I've long suspected .
A coalition between Labour and the Dems is the Tories worst nightmare looking at the situation today .
A willingness to work together in the national interest is a smart play and exposes the Tories as the party of themselves massively to the electorate .
I'd even be tempted myself to tick the box on GE day if only to respect having the balls and will to do it and not necessarily any policies .
It's actually a very socialist thing to do when you think about it .
Putting the country first before your own political ambitions .
With the greatest respect, Tyke, BST criticised the Lib Dems for their disgusting coalition with the Tories, just as much as I did. If he supported a Labour pact with them now, it would make him a hypocrite.
The Lib Dems are not to be trusted by anyone. They're full of snake oil.
I get that Steve I really do but it was over 10 years ago when they took the pieces of silver and slithered up to the Tories and supported austerity .
My point always is Labour cannot win under their own steam , Scotland is gone forever and the electoral system is rigged and doesn't favour Labour what so ever even though they continually think it does .
Where Labour can't win the Dems can which was proven the other day and where the Dems can't win Labour can .
The bloody Germans consistently have coalition governments which hold together for the good of the country .
It's probably in reality the best outcome because we've seen in this country what happens when we return governments with massive majorities .
It's not always that great .
Too much power corrupts .
My view is that we need more cooperation than we do absolute power in the UK of today .
I'll be fecked if I'm asked to do anymore compromising mind .
Time for others to accept that and take a spoonful of their own medicine .
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SS
I criticised the LDs for that coalition because they campaigned as a party that was to the left of Labour, then supported the most right wing economic policy since the 1930s.
All coalitions require comprise. That's the way of grown up politics. But they require compromise on both sides. The LDs gave in and enabled the utter batshit Austerity programme without the Tories having to water it down at all.
That was my criticism. Not against the principle of coalition.
I know you and a few others in here really want to be able to shout "hypocrite" at me. But you'd do well to read what I actually write and see if that does make me a hypocrite. Rather than deciding that I am and ignoring what I write.
The problems here are semantics. I've not decided that you're a hypocrite, I've said it'd make you a hypocrite if you supported Labour going into coalition with them, which it obviously would, based on what you've written above.
Do you think the Lib Dems are any different, or any more principled now than they were then?
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I'll take you at your word Steve, it does look like you can't tell the difference between them, absolutely no difference between johnson and any other PM.
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SS.
I'd expect any party going into coalition to think very carefully about the policies of the two groups.
The reason I despised the LDs in 2010 was that they had campaigned 100% AGAINST Austerity. Then Clegg claimed to have changed his mind after the Election.
THAT was the hypocrisy. If they'd gone into coalition but demanded that Austerity be hugely watered down, that would have been perfectly principled.
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I'll take you at your word Steve, it does look like you can't tell the difference between them, absolutely no difference between johnson and any other PM.
Oh, I can tell the difference. There'll be a lot of difference between him and Sunak.
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I'll take you at your word Steve, it does look like you can't tell the difference between them, absolutely no difference between johnson and any other PM.
Oh, I can tell the difference. There'll be a lot of difference between him and Sunak.
Good start, all is needed now is for you to get down and vote when the time comes, you can make change happen.
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I'll take you at your word Steve, it does look like you can't tell the difference between them, absolutely no difference between johnson and any other PM.
Oh, I can tell the difference. There'll be a lot of difference between him and Sunak.
Good start, all is needed now is for you to get down and vote when the time comes, you can make change happen.
If Labour change their leader I might consider it. Depending on who it is, obviously.
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I'll take you at your word Steve, it does look like you can't tell the difference between them, absolutely no difference between johnson and any other PM.
Oh, I can tell the difference. There'll be a lot of difference between him and Sunak.
Is this the same Sunak that didn't declare, (which is against the rules), his wife's interests in companies the government were trading with?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/27/huge-wealth-of-sunaks-family-not-declared-in-ministerial-register
There seems to be a commonality there SS.
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I doubt you'll find anyone on the planet that meets your exacting requirements Steve, unless of course you would care to name a viable option?
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I'll take you at your word Steve, it does look like you can't tell the difference between them, absolutely no difference between johnson and any other PM.
Oh, I can tell the difference. There'll be a lot of difference between him and Sunak.
You've got to factor in that the Tory Party has and always will act in the interests of the Tory Party first before the country .
The Party has always come before the country in my opinion .
That's not a Party that's a cult and it needs ending sooner rather than later in the modern world .
The remarkable thing is I can feel more at ease ticking a coalition box than I can do with the Labour Party or Lib Dems as separate entities .
That's massively weird .
It's as if some kind of Political regulator as stepped in and taken the wind out of both of them as opposition but none the less gives them the opportunity to defeat the Tories .
I'm not one for putting the Tories out of business either because that's not democracy .
But they should have to work far more than they do to ever be in government again that I do know and work in the interests of the country instead of themselves .
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I doubt you'll find anyone on the planet that meets your exacting requirements Steve, unless of course you would care to name a viable option?
I can't. Screaming Lord Sutch is dead.
Incidently, I saw Sutch and the Savages live. They were bloody good.
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Jack the Ripoer, bet you saw them at West End Club or some "Sutch" place
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Would anyone be overly surprised if this seat went Tory again at the next election
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Would anyone be overly surprised if this seat went Tory again at the next election
We are living in volatile times and it would take a brave man who can predict anything .
The Tories are massively damaged and the kind of Political damage that simply can't be brushed off even in a couple of years .
Something at long last has stuck on them and it isn't going away anytime soon .
Once a populist government is no longer hmmm popular there's not a right lot left to rescue yourselves with .
The best part of it is they've done it to themselves because the opposition have hardly laid a glove on them .
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Jack the Ripoer, bet you saw them at West End Club or some "Sutch" place
They were too big for the West End Club, Raven. The Coop and the St James Street Baths were the places, who also hosted the Beatles.