Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: SydneyRover on March 08, 2022, 03:41:23 am
-
''Police officers should work under ‘licence’ to restore trust – report for England and Wales
Review contains 56 recommendations urging reforms to culture, training and structure''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/07/police-officers-should-work-under-licence-to-restore-trust-report-for-england-and-wales
-
They are not all the same.
-
correct, there are different ideas but I though these were good ones
-
How on earth would being licensed change anything?
Bear in mind the monster that killed Sarah Everard had to go through a selection process, interviews and assessments to get the job.
Any amount of licensing or layered beaurocracy will not stop monsters like him from hiding.
Just like nurses and doctors that kill people.
Or anyone other walk of life for that matter.
What next? Licensing teachers, or magistrates or members of the clergy? All professions where pedophiles have been hidden.
-
How on earth would being licensed change anything?
Bear in mind the monster that killed Sarah Everard had to go through a selection process, interviews and assessments to get the job.
Any amount of licensing or layered beaurocracy will not stop monsters like him from hiding.
Just like nurses and doctors that kill people.
Or anyone other walk of life for that matter.
What next? Licensing teachers, or magistrates or members of the clergy? All professions where pedophiles have been hidden.
what do you think would work NR, and I don't presume to know where you sit on this but do you think there are problems with the force that affects it's crime fighting abilities as there are some quite serious people that do. The problems as with all problem cannot be fixed unless that is accepted.
The police enjoy a special position within society where they are the ones that people turn to when in need and they have special powers invested in them to accomplish that, therefore when the system doesn't work and bad ones remain or remain and are promoted one can see why many say it is time for change.
Your comment above reads like you don't think there is a problem.
-
There are problems within policing for sure. Just like there is every profession.
There are good, bad and indifferent in every walk of life.
The Sarah Everard case was utterly tragic. These cases are very very rare. They should not happen at all of course.
In rural Lincolnshire I believe the police still enjoy a very good relationship with the communities they police. And that has not been a given. It’s been earned through years of policing in, and with, its community.
You only have to look at the Lincs police Facebook page to see that,
Every force in the UK has its own unique issues for their own areas, be it multiculturalism, diversity, or lack of funding issues etc. The Met is a unique organisation in itself. It is a very big area to police with many many areas of policing. It is for that reason they have been widely regarded as one of the easier forces to get into because there is always a shortage of staff so they can afford to lower the bar so to speak. They cannot afford to pick and choose like a rural force can.
When I joined in 1999 ( retired now) there were 600 applicants for 12 jobs.
They struggle to get 50 applicants for 12 jobs now.
My overall take of police, policing and the public is they will never be popular. No one likes being policed, be that getting a speeding ticket or summonsed to court or worse still arrested. The Police in the uk have been getting hammered over the years because they are not popular. It’s getting worse too, so the Sarah Everard case which was rightly very high profile, becomes even more intensely so. And the questions being asked now are a direct fallout of that.
We will never stop people like him IMO. He was a calculated, determined predator.
If he wasn’t in the police, he could have been an ambulance driver, or a trucker.
-
You start by saying there are problems but then at the end say it's something to do with popularity??
look at an issue I mentioned, bad police being allowed to stay in the force and some of them gaining promotion. This unfortunately puts police in the position of being protected and does nothing to change that particular aspect. How do you think that effects new recruits?
-
You could argue we have a very similar issue with the Current government. A thread I’m sure you would be an exponent of . You only need to look at the roll call in the current HOC to see there are people in there who perhaps should never be allowed near Westminster, let alone in the HOC.
There is a lot of criticism being levelled at Priti Patel, she is the ultimate boss of the Police being Home Secretary. Accused of being a bully in the past? Perhaps she should not be where she is . But she is .
There will always be people wanting to join the police.
New recruits have very little knowledge, experience or interest in what goes on higher up the food chain. They just want a job. And I believe the police is still one that attracts some people to it. Just not like it used to.
And we are now in a situation where we have uni leavers going straight in at Inspector level, and direct entry into CID roles. Both of which I have my own opinion on.
There are many hoops you have to jump through to become a police officer these days. Fitness. Reading tests, writing tests, cognitive assessments, role play exercises, group exercises, interviews, exams. The list goes on.
Every single one of them can be done and passed by someone who deep down may house deviant, violent thoughts.
I’m not sure any amount of licensing, assessments or otherwise can cater for, or prevent these people from getting a job.
The HR bods that rule across huge swathes of our nations workforce call it Inclusivity I believe.
-
It appears you want to discuss anything and everything but the topic, which tells me you don't accept there is a problem, am I correct?
-
Oh dear? It looks to me like NR has very clearly explained his position with this subject but it also us evident that you are looking for an argument SR or at the very least, looking for someone to engage with to give you something to do.
-
Oh dear? It looks to me like NR has very clearly explained his position with this subject but it also us evident that you are looking for an argument SR or at the very least, looking for someone to engage with to give you something to do.
I certainly wouldn't to you for one if I did hound, as I would be unsure as to whom you were speaking for.
-
I made my point very clearly. The very first line.
There are problems within policing for sure.
Is that not clear enough?
What I don’t have are the answers.
I don’t feel licensing is the answer though.
Some things you cannot legislate for, or avoid. Sadly.
It’s as simple as that. IMO. And I had 22 years at it.
-
I made my point very clearly. The very first line.
There are problems within policing for sure.
Is that not clear enough?
What I don’t have are the answers.
I don’t feel licensing is the answer though.
Some things you cannot legislate for, or avoid. Sadly.
It’s as simple as that. IMO. And I had 22 years at it.
There you go Syd. As clear as a big bag of clear things.
-
''How on earth would being licensed change anything?''
It would go a long way to weeding out those that give the rest of the force a bad name. As I implied keeping the bad apples spoils the barrel.
-
I made my point very clearly. The very first line.
There are problems within policing for sure.
Is that not clear enough?
What I don’t have are the answers.
I don’t feel licensing is the answer though.
Some things you cannot legislate for, or avoid. Sadly.
It’s as simple as that. IMO. And I had 22 years at it.
There you go Syd. As clear as a big bag of clear things.
As usual hound you don't speak for yourself.
-
Syd he also explained why he thought licensing wouldn’t make a lot of difference. You should read what is written, not what you want people to write.
-
Syd he also explained why he thought licensing wouldn’t make a lot of difference. You should read what is written, not what you want people to write.
still hiding behind other's comments hound, why not use your own voice?
-
Wtf are you on about? I am using my voice to support NR against your ridiculous argument that he isn’t making himself clear.
You have already forgotten that I said they (the police officers) are not all the same.
Why can’t you understand?
-
Wtf are you on about? I am using my voice to support NR against your ridiculous argument that he isn’t making himself clear.
You have already forgotten that I said they (the police officers) are not all the same.
Why can’t you understand?
And think I have made myself clear, I'm not debating a topic through a third party, namely you.
-
The average door person down the local nightclub is SIA licensed/ registered.
It doesn’t stop some of them being out right violent bullies.
I’d like to see the last PDR ( that’s an annual report) for Wayne Couzens. I bet you there is nothing on there to suggest he was a violent predator.
It’s like vetting checks . They are not fool proof. Or DBS checks for that matter (the old CRB) they rely heavily on honesty and trust.
The proposed licensing scheme is based around work related job evaluation. Pass an interview. Do an exam. Tick a few boxes. There is nothing about psychometric testing or having feedback from peers or managers about an officers ability to do a job and be safe around members of the public.
Quite frankly, it would be seen as a beaurocratic exercise. A box ticking event. And it won’t stop another Wayne Couzens event.
If it helps grow confidence in the Police then whoopy do. It will be claimed as a raging success by the govt. well done everyone. Home for tea and medals.
-
I was the first to respond but you will have forgotten that. Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.
-
NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.
-
NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.
The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.
-
I have as the first to respond but you will have forgotten that. Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.
I tried to give you credit with your first comment but was wrong it appears you are silly enough to think that all people are the same, debate the points or stick the dummy back in.
-
I’d be interested SR in your take on the state of policing currently in Aus. And any experiences you have had good and bad. If at all.
I’m assuming policing on the other side of the world has similar issues.
-
NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.
The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.
I don't know of course but I would imagine that it would be an assessment of competency and record to see if they are good enough to continue that they themselves are happy and are getting the right support and if any discipline issues that may have occurred have been dealt with to satisfy the the 'whomever' that they are fit to serve the people. I personally as you are no doubt aware do not have any problems with this type of assessment provided that officers are treated with respect and have rights to appeal and so forth.
-
NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.
The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.
I don't know of course but I would imagine that it would be an assessment of competency and record to see if they are good enough to continue that they themselves are happy and are getting the right support and if any discipline issues that may have occurred have been dealt with to satisfy the the 'whomever' that they are fit to serve the people. I personally as you are no doubt aware do not have any problems with this type of assessment provided that officers are treated with respect and have rights to appeal and so forth.
There is a system already in place that mirrors this. It’s called the PDR process. Professional development review.
Wayne Couzens would have been subject to this process for the years he served.
I’m concerned that any new licensing would be the PDR process under a different name.I cannot see it being anything else.
-
I’d be interested SR in your take on the state of policing currently in Aus. And any experiences you have had good and bad. If at all.
I’m assuming policing on the other side of the world has similar issues.
There are problems with racism within the force and there are good and bad coppers of course. Australia has been in the past a bit of a wild west where police were politicised and were an extension of the government. Queensland under premier Joh Bejelke-Petersen was a virtual police state for many years and NSW only a couple of decades ago some police were in league with the worst crims in town. Vic police are now going through an inquiry to find out why they used a lawyer that represented major criminals as a snout. A lot of major crims will get off because of this. There's plenty online about it all. In needs constant vigilance to maintain a good balance. I would like to see police work being an arm of the community, sorting out small problems before they grow.
I have been involved in activism for various projects since retiring from full time work and and have come across both good and bad police.
-
NR, I like to hear if possible why you are so against licencing, not about other professions as I think we agree police are in a special position, a position of authority and need respect from the community to give them that authority.
The devil would be in the detail. I’d like to see exactly what the licensing process entailed before commenting further. But based on previous experience of Home Office Policies imposed on policing, I would not be too optimistic about its effectiveness.
I don't know of course but I would imagine that it would be an assessment of competency and record to see if they are good enough to continue that they themselves are happy and are getting the right support and if any discipline issues that may have occurred have been dealt with to satisfy the the 'whomever' that they are fit to serve the people. I personally as you are no doubt aware do not have any problems with this type of assessment provided that officers are treated with respect and have rights to appeal and so forth.
There is a system already in place that mirrors this. It’s called the PDR process. Professional development review.
Wayne Couzens would have been subject to this process for the years he served.
I’m concerned that any new licensing would be the PDR process under a different name.I cannot see it being anything else.
Then it needs to be different, you must have read all the reports regarding Lawrence, undercover coppers in relationships with activist, Hillsborough etc, it just goes on and on till it's sorted, it requires sorting.
-
Do u mind me asking what you did for a living ?
-
Here's a few tasters NR
https://theconversation.com/jacks-and-jokers-bjelke-petersen-and-queenslands-police-state-24700
Police are out of control and the government doesn't seem to care
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-are-out-of-control-and-the-government-doesn-t-seem-to-care-20180405-p4z7x2.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Rogerson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Murder_(miniseries)
-
Do u mind me asking what you did for a living ?
labourer to business owner with many diversions along the way.
-
I have as the first to respond but you will have forgotten that. Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.
I tried to give you credit with your first comment but was wrong it appears you are silly enough to think that all people are the same, debate the points or stick the dummy back in.
I would be happy to put the dummy back in SR but you are much to far away. Can’t you get someone else to do it for you.
-
This all sounds like another job creation racket that will produce absolutely nothing but duplication in the police's HR policy's and procedures whilst at the same time managing to demotivate the police who have to take flack from all directions from political agitators as it already does.
As NR says the police know they have internal problems and issues which need to resolved but to link a new newfangled licensing system is open to massive corruption from vested interests in certain rotten boroughs.
The public at large know the police have a massive job on their hands, they have a unique position in society and that means the spotlight shines brighter on them to get things right, we are all aware of examples of poor performance, incompetence and also corruption but i would wager a large bet that if they were ever to placed at the mercy of further discredited doctrines then we would all be sleeping less safe in our beds on a night.
Politely ask then to stick their control freak idea's where the sun don't shine.
-
I have as the first to respond but you will have forgotten that. Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.
I tried to give you credit with your first comment but was wrong it appears you are silly enough to think that all people are the same, debate the points or stick the dummy back in.
SYD’s a TROLL fol de roll!
-
I think licensing could be a good thing,sacking an under achiever is hard work, plus give em a big pay rise to get some top quality recruits.
-
Sproty, genuinely. What's that?? I got no idea what you're on about.
BobG
-
Sproty, genuinely. What's that?? I got no idea what you're on about.
BobG
I can just see it Bob, Mrs Tito Fallar the Guardian reading libertine ,
Accesses two Police offices to re licence, Pc Smith fails cos he has only arrested 10 miscreants and they were all black! Pc Jones passes cos he has arrested 50 miscreants and they are 95% White.so
Pc Smith fails cos he is a Racist and Pc jones passes co he /she isn't,
However Titty Fallar wil fail to take into account that Pc Smith works in Lambeth and Jones works in Richmond on Thames!
-
I have as the first to respond but you will have forgotten that. Fourth can probably.
Anyway I getting off your hook now. Things to do back here in the uk.
I tried to give you credit with your first comment but was wrong it appears you are silly enough to think that all people are the same, debate the points or stick the dummy back in.
SYD’s a TROLL fol de roll!
the spot from sprot speaks
-
I think licensing could be a good thing,sacking an under achiever is hard work, plus give em a big pay rise to get some top quality recruits.
The current thinking could achieve both sprot.
....... ''Police Foundation thinktank, contains 56 recommendations urging radical reform to police culture, skills and training, and organisational structure''
........ ''The licence should be renewed every five years, subject to an officer demonstrating professional development through achieving relevant qualifications, passing an interview, or presenting a portfolio of activities and achievements, the report said''
Any officer who fails this assessment could receive further support including mentoring, but successive failures would see their licence removed and they would no longer be able to work, the report adds.
Barber also calls for improved training and support for sergeants and inspectors so that they are equipped to provide stronger supervision, tackle poor conduct and call out bad behaviour among officers''
....... ''Among other recommendations are the creation of a new Crime Prevention Agency and the merger of back-office functions across the 43 forces of England and Wales, which Barber argues would save hundreds of millions of pounds. Investment in frontline policing is also on the list, as is training and technology to modernise the service from top to bottom''
''“Investing in the future of the service, with a focus on delivering improved outcomes for victims and strengthening local policing, are priorities for every force''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/07/police-officers-should-work-under-licence-to-restore-trust-report-for-england-and-wales
''THE FINAL REPORT OF THE STRATEGIC REVIEW OF POLICING IN ENGLAND AND WALES''
https://www.policingreview.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/srpew_final_report.pdf
-
I’m just trying to think about how the country is going to work in the world of some
1 copper commits a heinous crime so they’re now all evil
Are all GPs evil because of Shipman. Maybe all DJs should be licences because of Jimmy Saville
All football fans should be licences and have to prove they’re not racist or phobic before they’re allowed to enter a ground
All prisoner officers must be bent because some sneak stuff in for prisoners
All labourers must be thieves because one or two steal off site
All nurses should have to be licenced because of Lesley Allott
Maybe all musicians should be licenced because of G Glitter
Football should be banned because 1 or 2 players drink and drive and some rape people so they must all be the same and so it goes on
-
Bang on Phil.
I suppose we can’t avoid some people having a problem with the police.
Maybe something from the past causes hatred and can’t be wiped from their memory.
Sydney does seem to incessantly post anti police stuff for reasons best known to himself but in time of need I wonder whether he would call on them to help?
Your list of what ifs is testament though to what may need to be considered in other areas if the same train of thought being suggested for police officers is implemented.
-
I’m just trying to think about how the country is going to work in the world of some
1 copper commits a heinous crime so they’re now all evil
Are all GPs evil because of Shipman. Maybe all DJs should be licences because of Jimmy Saville
All football fans should be licences and have to prove they’re not racist or phobic before they’re allowed to enter a ground
All prisoner officers must be bent because some sneak stuff in for prisoners
All labourers must be thieves because one or two steal off site
All nurses should have to be licenced because of Lesley Allott
Maybe all musicians should be licenced because of G Glitter
Football should be banned because 1 or 2 players drink and drive and some rape people so they must all be the same and so it goes on
I guess you haven't read the report phil, it would have saved you some embarrassment .................. again.
-
I take every topic and subject on its own merit and have personal held beliefs. I cannot fathom narrow minded thinking on any subject
I’m not an out and out anti anything bigot unlike some who would support anything a political party did because it was anti another one or consistently anti any particular profession or role.
I cannot also not fathom anyone with a totally unhealthy dislike or hatred of anything.
I also struggle to understand why you are so interested in this country when you chose to abandon it and emigrate.
If the happenings in our very open, tolerant inclusive and giving country means that much why not return and fight the system
-
I take every topic and subject on its own merit and have personal held beliefs. I cannot fathom narrow minded thinking on any subject
I’m not an out and out anti anything bigot unlike some who would support anything a political party did because it was anti another one or consistently anti any particular profession or role.
I cannot also not fathom anyone with a totally unhealthy dislike or hatred of anything.
I also struggle to understand why you are so interested in this country when you chose to abandon it and emigrate.
If the happenings in our very open, tolerant inclusive and giving country means that much why not return and fight the system
Confirmed then, you didn't read it. Making all these uninformed comments and concentrating on 1 of 56 recommendations, but you are not on your own phil I think few that are commenting on this subject have read it.
-
I take every topic and subject on its own merit and have personal held beliefs. I cannot fathom narrow minded thinking on any subject
I’m not an out and out anti anything bigot unlike some who would support anything a political party did because it was anti another one or consistently anti any particular profession or role.
I cannot also not fathom anyone with a totally unhealthy dislike or hatred of anything.
I also struggle to understand why you are so interested in this country when you chose to abandon it and emigrate.
If the happenings in our very open, tolerant inclusive and giving country means that much why not return and fight the system
Confirmed then, you didn't read it. Making all these uninformed comments and concentrating on 1 of 56 recommendations, but you are not on your own phil I think few that are comment on this subject haven't read it either.
Eh?
-
Eh
-
Eh
I can never make sense of what hound says either
-
I think you misunderstood my eh
-
Phil old leake
''I also struggle to understand why you are so interested in this country when you chose to abandon it and emigrate''
You do know the report only pertains to England and Wales and not Northern Ireland don't you?
-
I think you misunderstood my eh
I never misunderstand ehs where hound is concerned
-
I think you misunderstood my eh
I never misunderstand ehs where hound is concerned
Strange that as I never use it.
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
-
Unfortunately you once again show your total lack of understanding
The report does refer to England and Wales. N Ireland is part of the United Kingdom so anything as radical as this would cascade it’s way down to all forces
FYI I did not abandon my country and moving to N Ireland isn’t what I would call emigrating.
I am proud of my country and am proud to call myself British, English and Yorkshire
Anyway you carry on slating our wonderful country. We can all await your next anti establishment anti British thread.
The one thing about them is they do make me chuckle
-
Are you and hound a double act?
''At the present time, police officers have no powers to work in each other's jurisdiction, and both the Northern Ireland Office and the Minister of Justice have stated that there are no plans to allow them to do so''
-
Is that correct
I’m so glad of your knowledge. I’ll tear up the policing and crime bill
-
Just read the report phil then you may have at least a measure of understanding.
-
Unfortunately you once again show your total lack of understanding
The report does refer to England and Wales. N Ireland is part of the United Kingdom so anything as radical as this would cascade it’s way down to all forces
FYI I did not abandon my country and moving to N Ireland isn’t what I would call emigrating.
I am proud of my country and am proud to call myself British, English and Yorkshire
Anyway you carry on slating our wonderful country. We can all await your next anti establishment anti British thread.
The one thing about them is they do make me chuckle
you are selby and I demand my fiver
-
You're a bit of a conundrum phil, on here you are disagreeing with reforms to the police service of England and Wales where you have shown to have little or no understanding, reforms that attempt to bring the police service into this century. It would increase numbers, training, diversity, cognitive diversity, upgrade technology, put emphasis in the areas of greatest need, champion crime prevention, community policing and much much more and on the other thread you are undermining the courts and justice system.
-
And I thought it was just me, well I didn't, it's just common sense .......................
''UK public do not believe government will tackle crime, documents show
Government polling finds a high fear of crime and little confidence anything will be done about it''
''The Home Office documents reveals polling carried out for the government found a high fear of crime, and low confidence much will be done about it.
The leak reveals the public are not convinced by a series of flagship initiatives by Boris Johnson’s administration on law on order, such as the Beating Crime plan.
It comes despite government efforts to distance themselves from a decade of Conservative cuts to the police and the criminal justice system.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/04/uk-public-do-not-believe-government-will-tackle-crime-documents-show
-
Are you and hound a double act?
''At the present time, police officers have no powers to work in each other's jurisdiction, and both the Northern Ireland Office and the Minister of Justice have stated that there are no plans to allow them to do so''
And yet some of us have deployed to help police g8 summits in Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland. And will continue to do so.
-
Can I ask if you have read the report yet NR? secondly the report covers England and Wales, can you explain under what circumstance these deployments accurred?
-
I’d be lying if I said I read every word of the 100 odd page report.
But I have looked at the main recommendations, conclusions and salient points.
Everyone, every single person working within policing in the uk currently would say the number one reason policing is where it is currently is down to lack of staff. Across the board. In every department.
Yet that report makes not one single recommendation based around this. There is one single recommendation that talks of uplift in Neighbourhood policing . And that’s it.
And for that reason I cannot take any such report that seriously. Uplift usually means they Rob Peter to pay Paul and staff are taken from another area to fill the political void.
Other blinding issues are direct entry to detective roles. Those that know , are fully aware this may sound attractive, but the reality is that it doesn’t work. To be a good detective you should be a good cop first, and to be a good cop you need to get time in doing the basics. But what do I know.
The whole licensing issue is a sound bite imho. Cops do annual performance reviews now. Any licensing scheme would be the same process re badged.
Policing across the uk for mutual aid is done via memorandum of understanding that policing in differing parts entails slight changes in PACE for example. Arrest policies in Scotland are slightly diff to say England.
English cops that went to Auchterader for example to police the G8 summit at Gleneagles some years ago were sworn in as Scottish constables for the duration of the deployment. I know because I was one of them.
-
My lad went to Northern Ireland , they had a PSNI officer with them to keep them out of harms way and deal with local stuff. Having said that they managed to Destroy their Landrovers every single day, PSNI have a huge Garage at Belfast Airport they would drive in there in their wrecked one and be given the keys to a newly refurbished one for the following day they had hundreds stored ready for use!
-
Firstly glad to see you ignored hound, he hasn't made a single sensible comment on this thread to date.
Maybe you do and I missed it, but I think you need to look at the problems within the police from the pov of the public rather than the police themselves. Lack of staff goes straight to the feet of the government that they allowed the service to be short of 20,000 and then try to bluff through with a media campaign says a lot about them. A lot of your earlier comments are whataboutery so I suggest you do read the report in full. The public themselves it appears have genuine misgiving about this governments ability to sort it out. While police can be guilty of serious misconduct and remain on the force there are serious problems, can you suggest why this happens and how to fix it?
-
Syd, go to bed, that single brain cell of yours must be tired.
-
Syd, go to bed, that single brain cell of yours must be tired.
I love it you and hound stick up for each other, man bro.
-
I am a taxpayer, and rely on the police too. I didn’t get any special treatment when I’ve been a victim of crime. Quite the opposite.
I got burgled some years ago and had to wait some time before I got any sort of response so I’m fully aware of shortcomings in policing.
The police are hell bent as an organisation of being representative of the society they serve.
It should come as no surprise then that they unwittingly end up employing not just the good, but the bad and the ugly too.
Every single walk of life and profession has bad eggs. The NHS, the church, the media, celebrities, politics the list goes on and on and on.
Until society rids itself of all of them, which isnt going to happen, then the bad eggs will sadly continue to infiltrate every walk of life, including policing.
Police in Australia will be no different I suspect.
Cases of serious misconduct should be viewed on the merits of each instance.
I’ve never been subject to such so can’t comment.
I know in my local force misconduct hearing are held in a public arena
And so are subject to full transparency and scrutiny.
My final word on this is that despite their public failings, I think the Police, certainly in my area, given the shortage of funding and staffing, do a good job. There are some outstanding public servants out there, both uniformed and staff that go over and above every single day. The actions of the few sadly spoil it for the many.
Policing does need to change, to fight the new threats in crime . But they need many many more bums on seats to do this. And a lot more money spent doing so.
And there will always be bad people out there, in policing and otherwise.
I won’t be wasting my time reading the full report. I’ve seen similar over the years.
It will change nothing. Don’t take my word for it though.
Come back in five years and we can revisit this if you like.
-
This debate isn't about any other profession a they do not carry the special powers that police have. There is absolutely no room for bad eggs within the police.
Cases of misconduct have been treated on their merits how else could they be investigated and yet a proportion of them remain in the force which led directly to the resignation of Dick.
Yes the actions of a few do spoil it for the many and it's why they need to go.
And you can't be arsed to read the report.
-
Not wanting to waste my time and “can’t be arsed” are at differing ends of the interest spectrum SR. Careful, your colours are beginning to show.
And if you don’t think corrupt politicians have power, or influential celebrities then you may need to have a rethink.
Consider the case of Epstein in relation to power.
But some are just hell bent on police and their failings.
-
Not wanting to waste my time and “can’t be arsed” are at differing ends of the interest spectrum SR. Careful, your colours are beginning to show.
And if you don’t think corrupt politicians have power, or influential celebrities then you may need to have a rethink.
Consider the case of Epstein in relation to power.
But some are just hell bent on police and their failings.
The force needs root and branch reform so that those that want to serve their community can without fear or favour, there needs to be recruitment to achieve 50% women with all members of the community represented, get rid of the blokey culture, get rid of the 'bad eggs'
If you do read the report ask yourself why so much work needs to be done?
I don't think you could trust this present government to implement it.
-
In fact, I’ve wondered why police and policing is more often the target of the lefts opporbrium than their support, of which you SR are clearly a fully paid up member metaphorically speaking.
The fates of most public sector workers, doctors, nurses dinner ladies social workers serve as rallying cries on strikes and rallies. Something SR you are probably very familiar with.
George Orwell said this:
“I have no particular love for the idealised worker, but when I see an actual flesh and blood worker in conflict with his natural enemy, the policeman, I do not have to ask which side am on.”
This comment I believe still stands true for those on the left that fail to see police officers as just another public sector worker.
Police deal every day with the people many on the left stand up for . Embattled working class communities, vulnerable adults and children and lots more.
They do a job which is demonstrably made harder during recession and public sector cuts. Faced sizeable cuts is staff and real time pay cuts. Huge hikes in pension contributions.
Police have flaws. Serious ones. They are, and should be subject to considerable scrutiny. They have been and will continue to be. Some bad eggs have and will continue to slip through the cracks.
They are missing solidarity from many on the left though that is afforded to their compatriots. They have no industrial rights.
I suspect I waste my breath though.
For many, the police will always be the police, and be disliked and even despised for it.
-
This is what I wrote about the report in an earlier comment
................. reforms that attempt to bring the police service into this century. It would increase numbers, training, diversity, cognitive diversity, upgrade technology, put emphasis in the areas of greatest need, champion crime prevention, community policing and much much more ...............
do you disagree with any of it NR?
-
Your ref to “blokey” culture sums up your current knowledge.
There are shifts in my local town made up of just female officers.
At our headquarters we now have weekly menopause cafes.
The whole hq building was lit up for a whole week with rainbow lights to promote lgbtq week.
We have more police associations for minority groups now than you can shake a stick at. Lincs police ACC is currently a female officer.
I’d argue white married male officers are now a minority themselves.
We have polish, latvian and Lithuanian officers and staff to serve some of our local communities.
There still more to do, but times are a changing. Policing is catching up.
You are out of touch chap if you think policing these days is “blokey” or not diverse.
-
This is what I wrote about the report in an earlier comment
................. reforms that attempt to bring the police service into this century. It would increase numbers, training, diversity, cognitive diversity, upgrade technology, put emphasis in the areas of greatest need, champion crime prevention, community policing and much much more ...............
do you disagree with any of it NR?
-
The data shows that:
''White people made up 92.7% of police officers at the end of March 2020, and 86.0% of the general population at the time of the 2011 Census
Asian people made up 3.1% of police officers, and 6.8% of the general population
people with Mixed ethnicity made up 2.2% of police officers, and 2.2% of the general population
Black people made up 1.3% of police officers, and 3.3% of the general population
people from the Other ethnic group made up 0.8% of police officers, and 1.7% of the general population''
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce-and-business/workforce-diversity/police-workforce/latest
''Women in policing in the United Kingdom began as early as December 1915 amidst the First World War.[1] As with other countries, police forces in the UK were entirely male at the start of the 20th century. Their numbers were limited for many decades, but have gradually increased since the 1970s. In England and Wales, 31.2% (40,319) of police officers were female on 31 March 2020. Previously, women police made up 28.6% in March 2016,[2]and 23.3% in 2007.[2] Women also make up a majority of the non-sworn police staff. Notable women in the police forces include Cressida Dick, the former Commissioner (chief) of the Metropolitan Police Service.
Until 1999, women in the police force had their rank title prefixed with the word "Woman", or the letter W in abbreviations (e.g. "WPC" for Constable); this construction is still sometimes used in the press and by individuals.[3][4] From 1919 until January 1993, female officers' warrant numbers also came from a different series than male officers'.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_policing_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Their%20numbers%20were%20limited%20for,the%20non%2Dsworn%20police%20staff.
facts R US
-
This is what I wrote about the report in an earlier comment
................. reforms that attempt to bring the police service into this century. It would increase numbers, training, diversity, cognitive diversity, upgrade technology, put emphasis in the areas of greatest need, champion crime prevention, community policing and much much more ...............
do you disagree with any of it NR?
Let’s look at your points individually.
1. Increase numbers. Cuts have been so deep and so drastic over recent years that they will take years to recover. Cops are still retiring year on year and retention and recruitment is becoming increasingly difficult.who wants to be a cop these days when they get battered by everyone, everywhere metaphorically and literally for 30-40 k a year?
2. Training. Every week there is an online this or that to do because some boffin in the home office has a bright idea. Cops that are training are not being cops. There is a balance to be had. Lack of staff compounds this issue.
3 diversity. This is being addressed. Police forces are matching their staff with the communities they serve as best they can.work in progress. But there are not enough cops To increase the diverse pool.
4. Upgraded tech. Change with IT within police forces is always slow. Because there is so much cost involved with hardware and infrastructure and licences. Police will always be playing catch up in this area IMO.
5. Right staff right place right training. This has always been strived for. It’s called intelligence led policing .patrols in areas where there are burglaries etc. And overall the cops are pretty good at it . Cops know roughly how many risk trouble makers will be at any given footy match for instance. And police with numbers accordingly. Same with protests. But this is too constrained by staffing numbers. Cops at a football match cannot be in their neighbourhood.
6 championing crime prevention. We used to have crime prevention officers. Who visited people in their home to offer advice about security etc. They all went years ago with cuts. Not enough staff to do this currently.
7 community policing. All well and good until the local response shift have two off sick so they have to back fill due to lack of staff. Not enough staff
You will notice a common thread amongst the above.
There are simply not enough cops to do what is needed. And it won’t be getting better any time soon.
-
They are not my points, they are gleaned from an expert report which I read.
-
The data shows that:
''White people made up 92.7% of police officers at the end of March 2020, and 86.0% of the general population at the time of the 2011 Census
Asian people made up 3.1% of police officers, and 6.8% of the general population
people with Mixed ethnicity made up 2.2% of police officers, and 2.2% of the general population
Black people made up 1.3% of police officers, and 3.3% of the general population
people from the Other ethnic group made up 0.8% of police officers, and 1.7% of the general population''
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce-and-business/workforce-diversity/police-workforce/latest
''Women in policing in the United Kingdom began as early as December 1915 amidst the First World War.[1] As with other countries, police forces in the UK were entirely male at the start of the 20th century. Their numbers were limited for many decades, but have gradually increased since the 1970s. In England and Wales, 31.2% (40,319) of police officers were female on 31 March 2020. Previously, women police made up 28.6% in March 2016,[2]and 23.3% in 2007.[2] Women also make up a majority of the non-sworn police staff. Notable women in the police forces include Cressida Dick, the former Commissioner (chief) of the Metropolitan Police Service.
Until 1999, women in the police force had their rank title prefixed with the word "Woman", or the letter W in abbreviations (e.g. "WPC" for Constable); this construction is still sometimes used in the press and by individuals.[3][4] From 1919 until January 1993, female officers' warrant numbers also came from a different series than male officers'.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_policing_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Their%20numbers%20were%20limited%20for,the%20non%2Dsworn%20police%20staff.
facts R US
You should look at the data for officers by ethnicity by area. You cannot look at the whole country in relation to diversity. Because it’s much more complex than that.
Rural Lincolnshire has a pretty non existent Afrocarribean or Asian community and as such very few officers in this ethnic group.
Conversely, Boston and Lincoln have large Eastern European communites and there are a number of polish, Latvian and Lithuanian officers employed both in response and community areas.
Compare that to the officers policing Brixton, or central Leicester. Of which I know there are very diverse officer groups.
-
They are not my points, they are gleaned from an expert report which I read.
Not your points, but comments you were happy to hang your hat on and question me over?
-
Facts are not us?
So we wait till some move into the area?
-
They are not my points, they are gleaned from an expert report which I read.
Not your points, but comments you were happy to hang your hat on and question me over?
Of course I am, one would be fairly game to debate a subject and not have read the report aye?
-
And going back to my first post today (59) it shows 35% of the population think there is a problem with crime, not necessarily with the police but they don't trust the government to sort it, the very same government that has created most of it.
So if any want to see this as a left v right problem you'll know whom to blame aye?
Oh, and this is the governments own polling.
-
Normal rules, i think you have given this individuals outpourings a great deal more respect and listened and replied in a far greater a manner than is required in this instance.
If anything you could say this has been a failing of the police today, being far to fair and respectful of some of these born agitators ideals and wishes. i must admit if the general public carried on like this bloke and his like i would expect they would soon be seeing the inside of police vans and cells.
The demonstrations today of ER blocking fuel refineries that are of a national importance are criminal actions, and should be treated as such. i want to see the police give these agitators 20minites to make their case and then remove them from the public highway with whatever force they deem warranted allow the general public to carry on with their everyday lives. Ff the police are too scared or woke infested to do this then their will be further down the line a far bigger reckoning for not just these cretins but also for the general public at large with unwanted consequences from other undesirables. The police need to respond to their public like you stated earlier NR and clean up this piss riddled mob of aging airheads and young, politically naive and educationally stunted blowhards.
I am and i would imagine many others who have read some of the absolute crap and woke garbage this individual posts on here every day just wish he would get a life and do one on the other side of the world, Christ i do feel for the people who had to put up with this constant crap when it was resident here.
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
Your uninformed views are as welcome as anyone's DD
-
It’s because of the constant chipping away at authority by a minority that is causing a serious decline in our society
The saddest part of it for me is the media fueling this type of anti society rhetoric and thus encouraging it as a true reflection of views.
-
You're a bit of a conundrum phil, on here you are disagreeing with reforms to the police service of England and Wales where you have shown to have little or no understanding, reforms that attempt to bring the police service into this century. It would increase numbers, training, diversity, cognitive diversity, upgrade technology, put emphasis in the areas of greatest need, champion crime prevention, community policing and much much more and on the other thread you are undermining the courts and justice system.
putin, kin jong un & Xi jinping all live in a world without criticism phil and you are criticising someone that has read the report.
-
Syd
No one is against any kind of criticism but there is a constant frenzy and trend of media outlets such as the BBC deliberately fuelling hatred and reporting the negative.
There are many great things about the United Kingdom such as it’s openness general acceptance of all and its tolerance
Far too many people seem to have this antI UK agenda but seem all too happy to accept the opportunities it presents to all people to advance themselves.
Too many people are wanting to take without giving to create disparities between people to forward themselves.
-
what does the bbc have to do with the price of fish?
They report news and they have opinion writers all clearly identified, would you like to be like russia where putin decides what the news is, you can already see what this government thinks of an 'open society' as it pushes to privatise C4 and appoints lackeys to influential positions.
One has to be true to one's convictions phil or at least have a good memory
''It’s because of the constant chipping away at authority by a minority that is causing a serious decline in our society''
And yet here you are criticising the judicial system
''The ridiculous outcome of the Colston 4 trial in Bristol has made people believe they can do as they please''
thou shall not criticise, do as I say
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
Your uninformed views are as welcome as anyone's DD
What you may consider "uninformed views" i and others don't agree with you and while ever this country has a hole in its arse it would never give succor to agitating extremists like you. You must of got the picture already when you decided to do one to the other side of the world and they, unfortunately have to put up with you and your undesired like.
Its individuals like you that take advantage of the west's liberal culture and try to force your extreme left wing ideals on the majority. I don't know if you have noticed but this country does not want your give away society and unfortunately has voted the most incompetent group of misfits and imbeciles ever just to keep your extreme, left wing dogma away from power.
What does that tell you and your ilk, it tells me your not wanted, not here, certainly not where you reside now and will probably cause our nation to vote in another period of trash like we have just had to endure just to see the back of you and yours.
In a nutshell, carry on bleating your agitation, this country allows you to do that, but it will never allow a government of like minded dreamers to ever have control and totally ruin this state.
Keep shouting from the back of the room fella, no ones listening or interested.
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
Your uninformed views are as welcome as anyone's DD
What you may consider "uninformed views" i and others don't agree with you and while ever this country has a hole in its arse it would never give succor to agitating extremists like you. You must of got the picture already when you decided to do one to the other side of the world and they, unfortunately have to put up with you and your undesired like.
Its individuals like you that take advantage of the west's liberal culture and try to force your extreme left wing ideals on the majority. I don't know if you have noticed but this country does not want your give away society and unfortunately has voted the most incompetent group of misfits and imbeciles ever just to keep your extreme, left wing dogma away from power.
What does that tell you and your ilk, it tells me your not wanted, not here, certainly not where you reside now and will probably cause our nation to vote in another period of trash like we have just had to endure just to see the back of you and yours.
In a nutshell, carry on bleating your agitation, this country allows you to do that, but it will never allow a government of like minded dreamers to ever have control and totally ruin this state.
Keep shouting from the back of the room fella, no ones listening or interested.
You lose I'm afraid DD, playing the man shows your insecurities and lack of knowledge on the subject, 35% of people think there is a problem by the governments own polling and everything I've discussed here is from a 2-3 study and final report by experts, when you have actually read the report you may find yourself with a voice worth listening to.
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
Your uninformed views are as welcome as anyone's DD
What you may consider "uninformed views" i and others don't agree with you and while ever this country has a hole in its arse it would never give succor to agitating extremists like you. You must of got the picture already when you decided to do one to the other side of the world and they, unfortunately have to put up with you and your undesired like.
Its individuals like you that take advantage of the west's liberal culture and try to force your extreme left wing ideals on the majority. I don't know if you have noticed but this country does not want your give away society and unfortunately has voted the most incompetent group of misfits and imbeciles ever just to keep your extreme, left wing dogma away from power.
What does that tell you and your ilk, it tells me your not wanted, not here, certainly not where you reside now and will probably cause our nation to vote in another period of trash like we have just had to endure just to see the back of you and yours.
In a nutshell, carry on bleating your agitation, this country allows you to do that, but it will never allow a government of like minded dreamers to ever have control and totally ruin this state.
Keep shouting from the back of the room fella, no ones listening or interested.
You lose I'm afraid DD, playing the man shows your insecurities and lack of knowledge on the subject, 35% of people think there is a problem by the governments own polling and everything I've discussed here is from a 2-3 study and final report by experts, when you have actually read the report you may find yourself with a voice worth listening to.
I do believe what you have just stated would just as well fit your situation perfectly, You loose because no one in authority takes your bleating's seriously, you show insecurities by constantly agitating extreme left wing ideals that no majority in this country will tolerate, and your supposedly deep thought and understanding in the subject just leaves the majority cold and disinterested.
You voice is the voice of the extreme far left, whenever you have any say in what happens in this country come back and remind me, in the meantime you have "no voice worth listening to" but do continue as it probably stops you from really annoying anyone else who cares.
-
So 35% of the public that agree with me are far left? you're still not making a lot of sense DD and commenting on 170 page document you haven't read.
-
I'm calling you out as an extreme left wing nutjob, this nation would never have any truck with you or your ilk, your Demigod Corbyn demonstrated that at the last election, that this country had to vote in a bunch of extreme incompetents to stop you and your ilk. You state that 35% of the public agree with YOU? listen mate, that 35% wanted a representative government, they certainly would never want what you and the far left have in store for any country that would be foolish enough to go down that road.
Can we just imagine the situation now if you had got your wish, we would be like a poodle to the worlds despots, god only knows what crap you would of allowed Putin to get away with after you had defrocked us of all our strength and protections. No thanks, not today or any day.
-
I'm calling you out as an extreme left wing nutjob, this nation would never have any truck with you or your ilk, your Demigod Corbyn demonstrated that at the last election, that this country had to vote in a bunch of extreme incompetents to stop you and your ilk. You state that 35% of the public agree with YOU? listen mate, that 35% wanted a representative government, they certainly would never want what you and the far left have in store for any country that would be foolish enough to go down that road.
Can we just imagine the situation now if you had got your wish, we would be like a poodle to the worlds despots, god only knows what crap you would of allowed Putin to get away with after you had defrocked us of all our strength and protections. No thanks, not today or any day.
Playing the man says more about you than me.
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
Your uninformed views are as welcome as anyone's DD
What you may consider "uninformed views" i and others don't agree with you and while ever this country has a hole in its arse it would never give succor to agitating extremists like you. You must of got the picture already when you decided to do one to the other side of the world and they, unfortunately have to put up with you and your undesired like.
Its individuals like you that take advantage of the west's liberal culture and try to force your extreme left wing ideals on the majority. I don't know if you have noticed but this country does not want your give away society and unfortunately has voted the most incompetent group of misfits and imbeciles ever just to keep your extreme, left wing dogma away from power.
What does that tell you and your ilk, it tells me your not wanted, not here, certainly not where you reside now and will probably cause our nation to vote in another period of trash like we have just had to endure just to see the back of you and yours.
In a nutshell, carry on bleating your agitation, this country allows you to do that, but it will never allow a government of like minded dreamers to ever have control and totally ruin this state.
Keep shouting from the back of the room fella, no ones listening or interested.
You lose I'm afraid DD, playing the man shows your insecurities and lack of knowledge on the subject, 35% of people think there is a problem by the governments own polling and everything I've discussed here is from a 2-3 study and final report by experts, when you have actually read the report you may find yourself with a voice worth listening to.
What did the other 65% of people polled think.
-
You need me to tell you what you think hound, what did you think of the report?
-
You need me to tell you what you think hound, what did you think of the report?
I don’t often read links that you post Syd.
I was curious though about the other 65% of people that you didn’t mention.
-
Syd. The BBC are as bad as it gets for left wing wokeism.
They’re afraid of their own shadow.
That’s probably why the likes of A Marr has left ‘so he can have his own voice’
-
Syd you seem to be obsessed that no one else has had the time to read this report
Why don’t you break it down for us all point by point and explain in detail how every point goes to improve society and policing this great country of ours. The country you care so much about you left it
-
AND He is a danger to himself and small Pets
-
Syd you seem to be obsessed that no one else has had the time to read this report
Why don’t you break it down for us all point by point and explain in detail how every point goes to improve society and policing this great country of ours. The country you care so much about you left it
I love to read all the comments opposed to a report that they haven't read and where they think it puts those that support change on the political spectrum. How many free breakfast will I get today, I have a years supply of kippers so far.
-
So you can’t dissect the report and tell us where we don’t understand
I thought as much.
-
So you can’t dissect the report and tell us where we don’t understand
I thought as much.
In short, you oppose a report you haven't read. contradict yourself on reasons why society is breaking down then blame the bbc. Now you want me to give you a rundown on what it says so you can continue in a journey to where you've already locked in the coordinates. Phil I've given you a very brief breakdown a couple of times which you have ignored.
-
A lot of emphasis on this report.
I remember the Bichard report, post Soham.
What did we get?
A police National Database that isn’t fit for purpose.
Reports can be worthless.
-
Not worthless to some posters NR.
The ones who get a kick out of continually baiting others with it.
-
So you can’t and once again you have just jumped on an anti society bandwagon so you can continue to knock government and the UK the country you have no say in as you no longer contribute towards it
It’s a shame you can’t find the same amount of time and put in as much effort reporting positive stories of police officers putting their lives on the line and saving people, or conducting acts of bravery which occur far more often than the negative rhetoric you seem to dig up on a very regular basis.
It’s all to easy to find fault.
Unless you can explain in detail all the facts you are saying will improve our society please don’t reply with your usual non answers
-
A lot of emphasis on this report.
I remember the Bichard report, post Soham.
What did we get?
A police National Database that isn’t fit for purpose.
Reports can be worthless.
There is quire a bit in the report regarding technology and what needs to be done, it highlights the fact that the police national database used is 48 years old.
-
I've tried to tell you phil, the report is a positive for the police, it's not anti-police ffs.
-
Do not confuse PNC with PND SR. Two very, very different databases.
Pnc checks convictions and wanted markers etc. At the roadside you can check driving licence status and insurance etc. It does other things too.
It’s National.
PND, the police National database was designed so that police forces could share intelligence between each other. It was brought in post Soham. It’s a much newer database.So that Soham never, ever happened again.
It should be updated very regularly so that Intel is up to date.
It isn’t. Shockingly so.
Why? Because there are simply not the staff to do it. Or enough hours in the day. Hmmm, heard this before?
So for those hanging their hat on this policing review report, crack on.
It’s a wish list. Nothing more than that. Recommendations.
Many of which will have lip service paid to, or simply ignored as not cost effective or operationally viable.
Heard it all before. Time and time again.
-
Yep, I may have misnamed it but the report does say that that particular one will not be able to be supported and needs replacing like now. It goes on to name the areas where most crime is committed and that the technology and training for police needs a massive upgrade to tackle it.
-
Just
Need
More
Cops
-
Yep, I may have misnamed it but the report does say that that particular one will not be able to be supported and needs replacing like now. It goes on to name the areas where most crime is committed and that the technology and training for police needs a massive upgrade to tackle it.
A bit if back tracking in that post Syd.
You misnamed it because you didn’t understand it. What a cop out!!
-
Just
Need
More
Cops
we
need
more
better
trained
better
equipped
more
diverse
more
community
based
police
-
Just
Need
More
Cops
we
need
more
better
trained
better
equipped
more
diverse
more
community
based
police
When you say we, do you mean in Sydney or in the whole of Australia?
-
Hound don’t forget Syd is an expert in policing having no first hand knowledge of it and making all his assumptions on reports and articles he’s read
-
In a nutshell most who are commenting on this subject have not:
Read the report
Do not know why it was commissioned
Do not know who wrote it
Do not know to whom it is addressing
And of course what 55 of the 56 recommendations are.
-
I blame the bbc for everything that's wrong in the world :)
-
I blame the bbc for everything that's wrong in the world :)
Yep, me too, the bbc world service has ruined russia, china and north korea
-
We need to go back to having police stationed in every village. The old ways are the best ways in this. The government needs to provide funding for a roll out of double the amount of officers we have now.
The criminals are having a field day at the expense of good honest working people.
Also the amount of PCSO’s need to increase to support the regular police.
Every street should have one person with a direct line,to the local police if there is anything going on of a criminal nature. You need a force of about four at each station with the support of the local town.
CCTV should be installed in places that are targeted such as local businesses that can’t afford to be robbed.
The police need to be better equipped. If that means arming them with guns and having to use lethal force to make someone stop, then so be it. Why should they have to go out with inferior weapons and risk their lives?.The world has become a dangerous place, they should be trained and armed.
Local police need to build a rapport with locals. Build trust with them. The judges need to do their part by putting people away for a long time when they go against the laws of the land.
Decent people have to live by them, so should they.
There should be a three strike rule, three offences no matter how minor and you go down for ten years. Murder etc obviously much more. A life taken should mean life, no parole.
Take all comforts away from prisoners. Meals, exercise and work and that’s it. Stop running them like youth clubs.
-
Christ Sammy. The Tory party has, from time immemorial, prided itself on its 'tough on crime' persona. Mrs Thatcher won elections on that very platform. A succession of right wing Home Secretary's have, for decades, introduced stiffer and stiffer penalties. The Labour Party followed suit. Tony Blair's government introduced more new crimes than any government in history.
And here we are. With you saying we need tougher penalties....I think 60 years of history suggests tougher and tougher penalties have clearly had no impact whatever. Maybe there is another approach... Try Portugal for example. A stunningly succesful change in approach to drug abuse has cut drug related crime a thousand fold. Lol. That's an exaggeration, but it is huge. And we all know drug related crime is behind a very large proportion of all crimes.
BobG
-
thanks Bob, finally a bit of sanity in the debate.
-
Do not confuse PNC with PND SR. Two very, very different databases.
Pnc checks convictions and wanted markers etc. At the roadside you can check driving licence status and insurance etc. It does other things too.
It’s National.
PND, the police National database was designed so that police forces could share intelligence between each other. It was brought in post Soham. It’s a much newer database.So that Soham never, ever happened again.
It should be updated very regularly so that Intel is up to date.
It isn’t. Shockingly so.
Why? Because there are simply not the staff to do it. Or enough hours in the day. Hmmm, heard this before?
So for those hanging their hat on this policing review report, crack on.
It’s a wish list. Nothing more than that. Recommendations.
Many of which will have lip service paid to, or simply ignored as not cost effective or operationally viable.
Heard it all before. Time and time again.
The PNC was set up in 1974 and 48 years old
-
I’m fully aware of when pnc was set up.
My reference was regarding reports. And I evidenced the Bichard report and subsequent setting up of the PND.
This did not happen till June 2011. Post Soham enquiry.
-
So there is no confusion then.
-
No there’s not
Quite simple really
-
No there’s not
Quite simple really
Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.
-
No there’s not
Quite simple really
Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.
Without boring you with the detail SR. PND is not a dynamic system that can be used at say the roadside. It’s complex and requires time to retrieve and analyse data. Plus there are limited licences for its use. So only certain people can use it. And then their are strict protocols about what you can go on there for. It’s not a one stop shop for intelligence retrieval. It’s quite frankly rubbish and not fit for policing in the 21st c.
It requires a whole new system. One that is windows based and allows for quick time use for everyone.
Won’t happen though as it will cost too much.
Someone in the home office will make a few quid though no doubt out of some other equally garbage software replacement.
Like I said, reports look wonderfully confidence inspiring and positive.
Reality will be more like this season for rovers.
-
No there’s not
Quite simple really
Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.
Syd, you do a lot of guessing don’t you.
-
Yep, I may have misnamed it but the report does say that that particular one will not be able to be supported and needs replacing like now. It goes on to name the areas where most crime is committed and that the technology and training for police needs a massive upgrade to tackle it.
A bit if back tracking in that post Syd.
You misnamed it because you didn’t understand it. What a cop out!!
:)
-
No there’s not
Quite simple really
Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.
Without boring you with the detail SR. PND is not a dynamic system that can be used at say the roadside. It’s complex and requires time to retrieve and analyse data. Plus there are limited licences for its use. So only certain people can use it. And then their are strict protocols about what you can go on there for. It’s not a one stop shop for intelligence retrieval. It’s quite frankly rubbish and not fit for policing in the 21st c.
It requires a whole new system. One that is windows based and allows for quick time use for everyone.
Won’t happen though as it will cost too much.
Someone in the home office will make a few quid though no doubt out of some other equally garbage software replacement.
Like I said, reports look wonderfully confidence inspiring and positive.
Reality will be more like this season for rovers.
No you're not boring me NR I never disputed what you're saying, if you'd read the report it says quite a lot about upgrades to technology, specialisation and training, if a system cannot be supported further than the system will have to be replaced.
''Like I said, reports look wonderfully confidence inspiring and positive'' not sure how you would know this though.
-
''Charing Cross: Met Police vow to 'root out' bad officers''
''The Met Police has vowed to "root out people who do not belong in the force" following an investigation into harassment and racism in a police unit.
The police watchdog discovered "disgraceful" misogyny, discrimination and sexual harassment in a police unit based at Charing Cross police station.
Following the investigation, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) made 15 recommendations.
The force has accepted all of the recommendations''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-61032343
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/operation-hotton-recommendations-metropolitan-police-service-september-2021
Good coppers will be applauding.
-
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Bas Javid
Dear Mr Javid, on behalf of like minded people across our third tier football forum I wish to register our disappointment at your total knee jerk reaction and complete capitulation in accepting all the recommendations following the inquiry into the so-called problems at Charing Cross police station. That you are to implement these changes across the Met is a huge mistake and could possibly see the local areas flooded with more undesirables.
We find it troubling that you will accept the views of these lone wolf troublemakers over those that regard themselves as pillows of society, ex-coppers, mates of coppers, family of coppers people with only the community at heart, do not allow extremist views to cloud your judgement on such serious matters.
We suggest you look elsewhere to find the rot in society such as those that criticise the judiciary when not happy with outcomes, the bbc-especially the bbc, anyone left of Ghengis Khan is bound to be suspect plus anyone that has moved or lives more than five klm from the old Belle Vue Stadium.
We hope you accept our advice in good faith
PS, did you know it never rains in Australia?
-
Was it ever in doubt that the MPS would just roll over and accept everything
Can you imagine a better way to end your career than to challenge the fact that the majority of your staff are well meaning, genuine, honest, hard working, people who are not racist and misogynistic.
This will obviously cascade it way down to every force in the UK
It goes without saying that every organisation of any size will have bad apples and staff that don’t meet certain requirements. These people should be dealt with and where necessary disciplined as individuals
-
Was it ever in doubt that the MPS would just roll over and accept everything
Can you imagine a better way to end your career than to challenge the fact that the majority of your staff are well meaning, genuine, honest, hard working, people who are not racist and misogynistic.
This will obviously cascade it way down to every force in the UK
It goes without saying that every organisation of any size will have bad apples and staff that don’t meet certain requirements. These people should be dealt with and where necessary disciplined as individuals
I think you are still viewing the problem from the pov of the police rather than the society they should serve. The police are there to serve, that women, non whites and and in a lot of cases just young people and those that cannot afford good representation are not given the same respect as white males is a problem and has been a growing problem for some time.
Look at it like a computer system, it can only be upgraded so many time before it has to be rebuilt. It is unfortunate that the service was underfunded to such a degree by the tories that 20,000 more were/are required to give the service its full compliment and it's unfortunate that this coincided with the underfunding of many community services which left many destitute, starving and of course leading to unrest.
The circumstance which led to the disaster that was Charing Cross should never have been allowed to happen but there was noone in the MET that could or was prepared to step in and sort it, including Dick. There should be no dead ends where any form of misbehaviour is dealt with in isolation, there needs to be systems that return it back to the top to find out why it occurred and fix it, not just get rid of the bad apple, fix the problem otherwise it's back on the magic roundabout for another spin. Police need to be trained so they know exactly where their loyalties lie, carrying out their duties to the best of their abilities and to the public. Police have to understand that if they see or know of misbehaviour in their own ranks that they have a duty to report it or be part of an investigation when it happens and they should be protected and maybe even rewarded for doing so.
In implementing the recommendations it will and should result in a better force where the majority, the good ones are rewarded with better job satisfaction and better relations with all the public and are respected for it. Police cannot be expected to do their job properly if they subject to bullying, misogyny and a whole raft of other problems.
I hope you read the whole of the link and the recommendations and understand why they are necessary, then go and read the other report and you should understand a lot more than you appear to.