Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: DRCraig on May 05, 2022, 02:33:29 pm
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All vote. Otherwise you are not getting your point across. Even if you feel they are all rubbish. Vote for the best of the bad bunch !
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Amen to that. Get out and vote.
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Not every council are voting this year. If you don’t vote don’t complain, this is why it’s called a democracy
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Democratic duty done, real lack of choice though, def need a ‘none of the above’ option.
Labour conservative or green. 2 of which I couldn’t vote for so green it was
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Democratic duty done, real lack of choice though, def need a ‘none of the above’ option.
Labour conservative or green. 2 of which I couldn’t vote for so green it was
I know so many people in the same position apart from they just decided not to vote today it will be interesting to see national turnout
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I'm still amazed how anyone in any Doncaster Borough council area can bear to vote Labour after the Labour run council Planning committee managed to fiddle what was green belt land into the borough's 10year regeneration plan, this allowed the fiddling councillors to rubber stamp the building of an illegal very large housing development at Old Rossington.
The fact they got caught and the main culprits locked up should of instigated a far more rigorous investigation into what had gone on with the council, housing developers and the corrupt councillors.
Its just a bit more than hearsay that this was well know at the time in Council circles but like a lot of their business at this time it was brushed under the carpet hoping that no one would come snooping.
Always amazed me that left wing agitators would never bother themselves with outing this failing council, to the point that they end up on Government special measures because they can't run council services to the minimum standard required. I wonder why?
IF its not fiddling planning councillors its piss poor early years and social services management that oversaw some of the worst child protection issues on record, ANYWHERE in this country.
and we are supposed to hold our noses and vote for the least worst option, yea right.
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Crikey if you think thas bad have a look at what Nottingham City Council have been found out on, thankfully not our Council down here in Snottingham
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I'm still amazed how anyone in any Doncaster Borough council area can bear to vote Labour after the Labour run council Planning committee managed to fiddle what was green belt land into the borough's 10year regeneration plan, this allowed the fiddling councillors to rubber stamp the building of an illegal very large housing development at Old Rossington.
The fact they got caught and the main culprits locked up should of instigated a far more rigorous investigation into what had gone on with the council, housing developers and the corrupt councillors.
Its just a bit more than hearsay that this was well know at the time in Council circles but like a lot of their business at this time it was brushed under the carpet hoping that no one would come snooping.
Always amazed me that left wing agitators would never bother themselves with outing this failing council, to the point that they end up on Government special measures because they can't run council services to the minimum standard required. I wonder why?
IF its not fiddling planning councillors its piss poor early years and social services management that oversaw some of the worst child protection issues on record, ANYWHERE in this country.
and we are supposed to hold our noses and vote for the least worst option, yea right.
Aye, you try and tell the Labour voters of today that, and they won't believe you...
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It might have happened, but it isn't a reason to not vote Labour now (decades on) if Labour's policies are something you're interested in, if not then fair enough.
We've got an actual PM who broke the law and a government that gives billions to their mates for good/services where they have never dealt in those sectors before, and people on here are alright with it...
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Who's voting for a PM?
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Who's voting for a PM?
No one today. Indirectly the electorate will be in a couple of years. Why?
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Every single person in the country BB.
The only way the spineless wretches in the Tory party will get rid of Johnson is if they know without doubt that he is an electoral liability. If the Tories lose very heavily today, Johnson is gone before the Autumn. If they do well today, Johnson is PM until the next General Election.
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Who's voting for a PM?
No one today. Indirectly the electorate will be in a couple of years. Why?
Why? Because you mention the PM when the discussion was about local elections!
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“The spineless wretches in the Tory Party”.
Are you saying they are all the same bst.
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Who's voting for a PM?
No one today. Indirectly the electorate will be in a couple of years. Why?
Why? Because you mention the PM when the discussion was about local elections!
I assume you understood my point but you're just being pedantic. My point was about standards, we've got a person on this thread questioning people being pro-Labour in Doncaster due to something that happened a fair bit ago, yet what we have currently in government people don't bat an eyelid at.
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It might have happened, but it isn't a reason to not vote Labour now (decades on) if Labour's policies are something you're interested in, if not then fair enough.
We've got an actual PM who broke the law and a government that gives billions to their mates for good/services where they have never dealt in those sectors before, and people on here are alright with it...
Fine piece of Whataboutery there, and you managed to squeeze in a piece on Johnson to boot. Were talking local elections numbnuts, no one here is interested in Johnson.
OK so if that polished piece of corruption was not current enough for you how about the current housing development at Manor farm just off Bawtry road, every man,dog and his Mrs in Bessacarr did not want to have that development take place so what did A labour Doncaster Council do after the planning permission was booted out because of the general outcry in Doncaster?
They only went and appealed it to the secretary of state to overturn the original decision.
So what kind of a council do the people of Doncastrer want, one that follows up its stated aims to stand up for the community and do its bidding, or one that has its own agenda(allegedly sweetened by plenty of overstuffed envelopes to the right Councillors) and rides roughshod over public opinion and ignores there requirements because it doesn't suit their questionable machinations.
These are the type of councillors you are voting for, and we call other countries as corrupt states.
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Some potentially libelous stuff in that post DO.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of corruption among current councillors?
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Are you sure about that?
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It might have happened, but it isn't a reason to not vote Labour now (decades on) if Labour's policies are something you're interested in, if not then fair enough.
We've got an actual PM who broke the law and a government that gives billions to their mates for good/services where they have never dealt in those sectors before, and people on here are alright with it...
Fine piece of Whataboutery there, and you managed to squeeze in a piece on Johnson to boot. Were talking local elections numbnuts, no one here is interested in Johnson.
OK so if that polished piece of corruption was not current enough for you how about the current housing development at Manor farm just off Bawtry road, every man,dog and his Mrs in Bessacarr did not want to have that development take place so what did A labour Doncaster Council do after the planning permission was booted out because of the general outcry in Doncaster?
They only went and appealed it to the secretary of state to overturn the original decision.
So what kind of a council do the people of Doncastrer want, one that follows up its stated aims to stand up for the community and do its bidding, or one that has its own agenda(no doubt sweetened by plenty of overstuffed envelopes to the right Councillors) and rides roughshod over public opinion and ignores there requirements because it doesn't suit their corrupt machinations.
These are the type of councillors you are voting for, and we call other countries as corrupt states.
Ahh, so I assume you'll be voting against the Tories in a couple of years if you're so against corruption. (sorry for mentioning his name or talking national and not local xx)
I'll exit this thread now x
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Some potentially libelous stuff in that post DO.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of corruption among current councillors?
Me? Did you mean danumdon?
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It might have happened, but it isn't a reason to not vote Labour now (decades on) if Labour's policies are something you're interested in, if not then fair enough.
We've got an actual PM who broke the law and a government that gives billions to their mates for good/services where they have never dealt in those sectors before, and people on here are alright with it...
Fine piece of Whataboutery there, and you managed to squeeze in a piece on Johnson to boot. Were talking local elections numbnuts, no one here is interested in Johnson.
OK so if that polished piece of corruption was not current enough for you how about the current housing development at Manor farm just off Bawtry road, every man,dog and his Mrs in Bessacarr did not want to have that development take place so what did A labour Doncaster Council do after the planning permission was booted out because of the general outcry in Doncaster?
They only went and appealed it to the secretary of state to overturn the original decision.
So what kind of a council do the people of Doncastrer want, one that follows up its stated aims to stand up for the community and do its bidding, or one that has its own agenda(allegedly sweetened by plenty of overstuffed envelopes to the right Councillors) and rides roughshod over public opinion and ignores their requirements because it doesn't suit their questionable machinations.
These are the type of councillors you are voting for, and we call other countries as corrupt states.
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Some potentially libelous stuff in that post DO.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of corruption among current councillors?
I dont have any evidence at hand.
What i do have is the words of Doncaster council stating that they do the bidding of the people of this borough and then they go and do the totally oppisite. Now if that's not a lack of decent standards, now, 10 or 20years ago i dont know what is.
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It might have happened, but it isn't a reason to not vote Labour now (decades on) if Labour's policies are something you're interested in, if not then fair enough.
We've got an actual PM who broke the law and a government that gives billions to their mates for good/services where they have never dealt in those sectors before, and people on here are alright with it...
Fine piece of Whataboutery there, and you managed to squeeze in a piece on Johnson to boot. Were talking local elections numbnuts, no one here is interested in Johnson.
OK so if that polished piece of corruption was not current enough for you how about the current housing development at Manor farm just off Bawtry road, every man,dog and his Mrs in Bessacarr did not want to have that development take place so what did A labour Doncaster Council do after the planning permission was booted out because of the general outcry in Doncaster?
They only went and appealed it to the secretary of state to overturn the original decision.
So what kind of a council do the people of Doncastrer want, one that follows up its stated aims to stand up for the community and do its bidding, or one that has its own agenda(allegedly sweetened by plenty of overstuffed envelopes to the right Councillors) and rides roughshod over public opinion and ignores there requirements because it doesn't suit their questionable machinations.
These are the type of councillors you are voting for, and we call other countries as corrupt states.
That would be a Tory Secretary of State?
Doncaster planning booted it out, surely it was the developers that appealed it, as they were the ones applying in the first place
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Some potentially libelous stuff in that post DO.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of corruption among current councillors?
Me? Did you mean danumdon?
I did. Apologies for the mistake.
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Some potentially libelous stuff in that post DO.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of corruption among current councillors?
I dont have any evidence at hand.
What i do have is the words of Doncaster council stating that they do the bidding of the people of this borough and then they go and do the totally oppisite. Now if that's not a lack of decent standards, now, 10 or 20years ago i dont know what is.
Like Filo says, are you 100% sure you've got this right. The Council appealing a Council decision sounds biza...odd.
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Ahem , https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20110613/281934539562888
Feel free to pay attention to the bit that points out DMBC turned it down twice , before being overruled by ministers
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Yes, i may have jumped the gun here, (holding my hands up)
https://doncaster.moderngov.co.uk/Data/Planning%20Committee/201112131400/Agenda/$Plan%20Sch%20Appl%201%20rpt6.doc.pdf
What i should of said was that the local councillors at the time, (not all Labour)had agreed with the local pressure group that it was best not to proceed but when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission even with the strong disagreement of the local community that would have to put up with the additional issues that this development would bring.
I don't know if your familiar with this issue but it's a very large housing estate that is being built on a locally known floodplain, it has one (1) access and egress road to and from this soon to be massive housing estate. this road joins onto Bawtry Road between the Lincoln railway line bridge overbridge and the M18 roadbridge so a very tight location was able to accommodate this road access.
It has at the other end of the estate a couple of level crossings across the Lincoln railway line, both which are not suitable for any sort of traffic flow and which themselves back onto another housing estate.
The traffic on Bawtry Road on weekday rush hours is ridiculous at the best of times, added to the Cantly crawl they both make mornings into Donny town centre a bind, this estate is making it worse and in future will make it even worse that that.
Something that the locals really didn't want and have had to put up with because of a poor decision by Donny Council.
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
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Ahem , https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20110613/281934539562888
Feel free to pay attention to the bit that points out DMBC turned it down twice , before being overruled by ministers
The article from the Yorkshire Press is not the full story, it does not preface the fact that at plenty of stages before it had to grant permission they could of stopped this development on many differing grounds, some are mentioned in the copy, others are not, for example it mentions that the Lincoln line has 3 trains an hour, i live backing onto the Lincoln line and can tell you that freight trains now run on that line all day and night (ever since the GNGE upgrades on the line)
They also could of stopped it in its tracks previously when Persimmon first brought the site as it was a protected area of ancient woodland and marsh, this they allowed to set aside for the development.
The fact that it also floods, regularly is something that prospective owners will find out about in due course with obvious massive implications for house insurance. They have tried to raise the ground levels here but i doubt the job has been done sufficiently. If you asked me a house on certain parts of this estate will be worthless in the near future if current environmental predictions are confirmed.
Still back to the point, Donny Council had years to knock the developers back many times and either incompetence or other considerations prevailed,
Did i vote, what do you think.
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Ahem , https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20110613/281934539562888
Feel free to pay attention to the bit that points out DMBC turned it down twice , before being overruled by ministers
The article from the Yorkshire Press is not the full story, it does not preface the fact that at plenty of stages before it had to grant permission they could of stopped this development on many differing grounds, some are mentioned in the copy, others are not, for example it mentions that the Lincoln line has 3 trains an hour, i live backing onto the Lincoln line and can tell you that freight trains now run on that line all day and night (ever since the GNGE upgrades on the line)
They also could of stopped it in its tracks previously when Persimmon first brought the site as it was a protected area of ancient woodland and marsh, this they allowed to set aside for the development.
The fact that it also floods, regularly is something that prospective owners will find out about in due course with obvious massive implications for house insurance. They have tried to raise the ground levels here but i doubt the job has been done sufficiently. If you asked me a house on certain parts of this estate will be worthless in the near future if current environmental predictions are confirmed.
Still back to the point, Donny Council had years to knock the developers back many times and either incompetence or other considerations prevailed,
Did i vote, what do you think.
Doncaster Council blocked planning
A Tory secretary of State overturned that decision
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
So...how exactly is it the Council's fault?
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
The SoS orders Doncaster Council to grant planning, they had no choice after the SoS overturned it, you are creating a story of fiction to justify your dislike of Labour and Doncaster Council
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Ahem , https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20110613/281934539562888
Feel free to pay attention to the bit that points out DMBC turned it down twice , before being overruled by ministers
The article from the Yorkshire Press is not the full story, it does not preface the fact that at plenty of stages before it had to grant permission they could of stopped this development on many differing grounds, some are mentioned in the copy, others are not, for example it mentions that the Lincoln line has 3 trains an hour, i live backing onto the Lincoln line and can tell you that freight trains now run on that line all day and night (ever since the GNGE upgrades on the line)
They also could of stopped it in its tracks previously when Persimmon first brought the site as it was a protected area of ancient woodland and marsh, this they allowed to set aside for the development.
The fact that it also floods, regularly is something that prospective owners will find out about in due course with obvious massive implications for house insurance. They have tried to raise the ground levels here but i doubt the job has been done sufficiently. If you asked me a house on certain parts of this estate will be worthless in the near future if current environmental predictions are confirmed.
Still back to the point, Donny Council had years to knock the developers back many times and either incompetence or other considerations prevailed,
Did i vote, what do you think.
Doncaster Council blocked planning
A Tory secretary of State overturned that decision
Your not reading between the lines,
Persimmon bought the land years ago, its name gives you a clue, it was a Farm as in farmland, but most of the southern end was ancient woodland and marsh and had protections on it, the fact that Doncaster Council blocked it however many times makes no difference, they had it in their power to not change the land status to allow it to be developed for housing but they chose for whatever reason you may wish to apply to this situation to go ahead and do so. This then gave the developer the power to take it to the highest court and to subsequently be granted approval. The fact that it was a Tory Minister in this instance would of made no difference.
Why was the land designation allowed to be changed, who stood to gain from this amendment, what did they gain?
If Donny Council wished this not to be the case then why did this happen?
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Ahem , https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20110613/281934539562888
Feel free to pay attention to the bit that points out DMBC turned it down twice , before being overruled by ministers
The article from the Yorkshire Press is not the full story, it does not preface the fact that at plenty of stages before it had to grant permission they could of stopped this development on many differing grounds, some are mentioned in the copy, others are not, for example it mentions that the Lincoln line has 3 trains an hour, i live backing onto the Lincoln line and can tell you that freight trains now run on that line all day and night (ever since the GNGE upgrades on the line)
They also could of stopped it in its tracks previously when Persimmon first brought the site as it was a protected area of ancient woodland and marsh, this they allowed to set aside for the development.
The fact that it also floods, regularly is something that prospective owners will find out about in due course with obvious massive implications for house insurance. They have tried to raise the ground levels here but i doubt the job has been done sufficiently. If you asked me a house on certain parts of this estate will be worthless in the near future if current environmental predictions are confirmed.
Still back to the point, Donny Council had years to knock the developers back many times and either incompetence or other considerations prevailed,
Did i vote, what do you think.
Doncaster Council blocked planning
A Tory secretary of State overturned that decision
Your not reading between the lines,
Persimmon bought the land years ago, its name gives you a clue, it was a Farm as in farmland, but most of the southern end was ancient woodland and marsh and had protections on it, the fact that Doncaster Council blocked it however many times makes no difference, they had it in their power to not change the land status to allow it to be developed for housing but they chose for whatever reason you may wish to apply to this situation to go ahead and do so. This then gave the developer the power to take it to the highest court and to subsequently be granted approval. The fact that it was a Tory Minister in this instance would of made no difference.
Why was the land designation allowed to be changed, who stood to gain from this amendment, what did they gain?
If Donny Council wished this not to be the case then why did this happen?
Tory’s relaxed planning rules
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It makes you wonder what pressure might have been brought to bear to have the Secretary of State overule a local council planning decision in favour of the developer?
In other news 20% of donations to the Tory Party are from the property sector:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/20-tory-donations-come-property-tycoons/
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
The SoS orders Doncaster Council to grant planning, they had no choice after the SoS overturned it, you are creating a story of fiction to justify your dislike of Labour and Doncaster Council
Is it fiction to say that farmland cannot have residential development unless the land designation has been changed, would the council have had the power to not grant that change of designation? were the council forced by the developer to allow the change?
Would i need to dislike Labour or Donny council if i suspected that ulterior motives may be in play?
Which bit is fiction?
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
The SoS orders Doncaster Council to grant planning, they had no choice after the SoS overturned it, you are creating a story of fiction to justify your dislike of Labour and Doncaster Council
Is it fiction to say that farmland cannot have residential development unless the land designation has been changed, would the council have had the power to not grant that change of designation? were the council forced by the developer to allow the change?
Would i need to dislike Labour or Donny council if i suspected that ulterior motives may be in play?
Which bit is fiction?
You’ve gone all the way from Doncaster Council appealed their own decision down to you suspect ulterior motives were at play despite the fact that it was the SOS decision, I’m not sure how many times that has to be repeated to you
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Ahem , https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yorkshire-post/20110613/281934539562888
Feel free to pay attention to the bit that points out DMBC turned it down twice , before being overruled by ministers
The article from the Yorkshire Press is not the full story, it does not preface the fact that at plenty of stages before it had to grant permission they could of stopped this development on many differing grounds, some are mentioned in the copy, others are not, for example it mentions that the Lincoln line has 3 trains an hour, i live backing onto the Lincoln line and can tell you that freight trains now run on that line all day and night (ever since the GNGE upgrades on the line)
They also could of stopped it in its tracks previously when Persimmon first brought the site as it was a protected area of ancient woodland and marsh, this they allowed to set aside for the development.
The fact that it also floods, regularly is something that prospective owners will find out about in due course with obvious massive implications for house insurance. They have tried to raise the ground levels here but i doubt the job has been done sufficiently. If you asked me a house on certain parts of this estate will be worthless in the near future if current environmental predictions are confirmed.
Still back to the point, Donny Council had years to knock the developers back many times and either incompetence or other considerations prevailed,
Did i vote, what do you think.
Doncaster Council blocked planning
A Tory secretary of State overturned that decision
Your not reading between the lines,
Persimmon bought the land years ago, its name gives you a clue, it was a Farm as in farmland, but most of the southern end was ancient woodland and marsh and had protections on it, the fact that Doncaster Council blocked it however many times makes no difference, they had it in their power to not change the land status to allow it to be developed for housing but they chose for whatever reason you may wish to apply to this situation to go ahead and do so. This then gave the developer the power to take it to the highest court and to subsequently be granted approval. The fact that it was a Tory Minister in this instance would of made no difference.
Why was the land designation allowed to be changed, who stood to gain from this amendment, what did they gain?
If Donny Council wished this not to be the case then why did this happen?
Tory’s relaxed planning rules
Care to back that up with evidence or are we to accuse you of what you accused me of?
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
The SoS orders Doncaster Council to grant planning, they had no choice after the SoS overturned it, you are creating a story of fiction to justify your dislike of Labour and Doncaster Council
Is it fiction to say that farmland cannot have residential development unless the land designation has been changed, would the council have had the power to not grant that change of designation? were the council forced by the developer to allow the change?
Would i need to dislike Labour or Donny council if i suspected that ulterior motives may be in play?
Which bit is fiction?
You’ve gone all the way from Doncaster Council appealed their own decision down to you suspect ulterior motives were at play despite the fact that it was the SOS decision, I’m not sure how many times that has to be repeated to you
So you did your bit of grandstanding whilst conveniently ignoring and not answering the question, clever.
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when it came to the vote, The whole council(predominantly Labour) decided it would grant permission
I'm still not getting this. If this is the case, why was there any need for an appeal and who appealed?
After the SOS gave the go ahead the local council would of had to rubber stamp this decision in the chamber, is my understanding.
The SoS orders Doncaster Council to grant planning, they had no choice after the SoS overturned it, you are creating a story of fiction to justify your dislike of Labour and Doncaster Council
Is it fiction to say that farmland cannot have residential development unless the land designation has been changed, would the council have had the power to not grant that change of designation? were the council forced by the developer to allow the change?
Would i need to dislike Labour or Donny council if i suspected that ulterior motives may be in play?
Which bit is fiction?
Dunno, have a read of this and see what you think.
https://rangewell.com/article/new-planning-laws-automatic-planning-permission-and-what-they-could-mean-to-you
This may be the importatnt para:
Now, under the government's new rules, councils will be blocked from denying planning permission in areas designated for growth in a bid to speed up development.
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Putting aside the fact that this is a policy that is being pushed by the Johnson government so a few years after the event and not in statute at the time of this issue.
One thing that could be important i thought was this paragraph,
"Green belt and areas of outstanding natural beauty would be protected, but councils will be also be told to push through plans on land marked for renewal"
So if something along these lines was in place at the time then that could of been used to force through this type of development. I'm not sure if that was the case with Manor Farm, would of course depend if the council had already earmarked this location into that type of a designation.
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Back to today's elections. Fascinating how many Conservative council candidates have called themselves Local Conservatives to distance themselves from the toxicity of the Govt.
And yet...
Johnson won the Tory leadership vote (voted for by "local" conservative party members up and down the country) by a landslide only 3 years ago.
You reckon they have buyers' regret?
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The Wandsworth LOCAL conservatives have even had their publicity printed in green not blue.
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this is extraordinary
''Rutland Conservatives quit party
The next elections for Rutland County Council won't take place until May 2023. But the Conservatives there have suffered a blow tonight with the resignation of council leader Oliver Hemsley and several other Tory councillors.
In a statement, Mr Hemsley says he intends to carry on leading a minority administration as an independent. He says the council has been ignored by the government on funding''
bbc
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This is a turn up.
John Curtice has told told the BBC that initial results, mostly from Sunderland and London, have shown a swing of 1% from Labour to the Conservatives.
This may mean that “Labour are not going to make much progress in Leave-voting provincial England, even though they are up on their performance last year,” he said.
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As usual in Local Elections and By Elections everyone has won
Jenrick just said " this is not such a bad result for Tories , and will be more disappointing to Labour"
Then in an amazing statement he said he feared for the Voters of Westminster and Wandsworth as Tories have the lowest Council taxes (traditionally) and he feared that Labour would put them up now they are in power
That despite "those same voters" being the ones that elected the officials democratically. So it is them that have chosen where their vote goes and not for him to fear for them
As I say ... Everyone has won
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Isn’t that always the case JT.
Councillors and politicians put more spin on their post election comments than anything else.
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I think this has to be concerning for Starmer.
While voters have been punishing the Tories, they aren't really getting behind Labour. The Lib Dems and Greens aren't doing at all badly.
If the Labour party hopes to win a general election, then I think they need to be seeing a more decisive swing to them.
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They need Rayner as leader RD, Starmers smarminess puts ppl off, I know, I’m one of them. Rayner I could support, like the directness
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The results in so far, in terms of vote share, more or less match what the polls are telling us.
Not good enough for the Tories to get Johnson out of trouble. Not bad enough to be terminal.
Not good for Labour to think they are cruising. Not bad enough to prompt anyone to challenge Starmer.
Johnson may well have survived. Big question now is, do the Met have any more Partygate fines?
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Labour could be on a spiral down in the midlands and north of England as new houses are built in traditional labour areas for aspirational young home owners no longer indoctrinated in a labour up bringing.
The Cities are now the labour hopes as especially London are over come by immigrants and ethnic minorities dependant on social hand outs, but face a challenge from the middle class in the South and midlands of England that now have rising costs when they were happy to stretch their expenditure on dept to drive up property prices they gained from and have not in many cases lived within their means and borrowed money they have not got.
Its the third time I have lived through the same scenario when banks have lent out lots of cheap money only to raise interest rates to make lots of dosh, and this will be the biggest hit of them all.
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How will all this pan out with a 10% inflation rate and the threat of recession selby?
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It's going to depend on how bad this recession gets and I'm afraid its not looking good.
The war in Ukraine looks to be ongoing, which is going to have lots of negative impacts on the global economy. The energy price rises here in October will be shocking. As things slowdown unemployment will eventually start to rise. The housing market will finally begin to cool.
Who knows what all this will do to the political landscape in the UK.
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Well, all the shop shelves will be empty from Brexit, and we'll all be dead from Covid anyway, so when Russia drops its nuclear bomb on us a recession won't matter will it?
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little bit testy bb, so unlike you
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It's not going to get any better for the Tories in the immediate future - and will Johnson want to fight a GE after/during an economic recession?
Snap election coming up later this year maybe?
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I'm not sure these results combined with the current economics would give even johnson the confidence to go early, unless he figures a political world without him is not worth having.
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It's not going to get any better for the Tories in the immediate future - and will Johnson want to fight a GE after/during an economic recession?
Snap election coming up later this year maybe?
Actually I think it will, they've got levers they can pull (if they choose to) and the covid parties stories will disappear or the pm will resign, tricky for labour if Starmer found to have breached rules too, but for the next GE quite a way off.
The summary from BST is very fair, no winners or major loses really. It could have been better or worse for all of them. I'd say the Tories are at a low point and it's hard to see that decreasing further and labour should be happy that they have alot of growth left to go at with their vote. Thought the London mayor made a good point that they shouldn't just rely on the other side being bad.
As ever the lib Dems do well in these middle of cycle elections. The Tories should fear them not labour.
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It might have been a poor election for the conservatives but it wasn’t particularly good for Labour. Both the Lib Dems and the Greens gain more seats than they did.
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It was a steady result for Labour. They were competing in wards that they'd generally done very well in last time they were fought, so to have won lots of wards would have been exceptional.
Not exceptionally good for Labour. But certainly not particularly bad.
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The results in so far, in terms of vote share, more or less match what the polls are telling us.
Not good enough for the Tories to get Johnson out of trouble. Not bad enough to be terminal.
Not good for Labour to think they are cruising. Not bad enough to prompt anyone to challenge Starmer.
Johnson may well have survived. Big question now is, do the Met have any more Partygate fines?
Well, the other big question is whether the Durham police will have “the other party gate” investigation.
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Poor results for the tories tonight and boris should go( should have gone a while back) Labour faired ok but need much better in the long term
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Some news outlets are saying it was a classic mid term election with protest votes going away from their usual preferred Party.
Typically those votes, in the main, went to the Lib Dems.
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the tory party appears to be in a bind as it changes itself into the populist johnson party to maintain the red wall the traditional tories don't like what they see and if johnson manages to level anything up they won't like that either.
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Some news outlets are saying it was a classic mid term election with protest votes going away from their usual preferred Party.
Typically those votes, in the main, went to the Lib Dems.
Are those news outlets the rightwing press?
It's probably partly true but I think the key issue in this election wasn't partygate. If it was solely about partygate then it would have been a classic midterm.
I think the real issue is the cost of living. Unless the Tories get a grip on this, then I think the dissatisfaction will be lasting. The energy price rise in October is going to be central. If they can't do anything about horrendous bills going into the winter, then I think there will be a mood for change.
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Senior Tories were doing the media rounds last week saying 350 lost wards in the Council elections would be a very bad outcome.
They actually lost 500.
There's no dressing this up. It's a historically awful performance.
And as you say RD, and as I've been saying for a year, things aren't going to get any better for the Tories in the foreseeable future. There's nothing but hard times and bad news for a good long while.
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The Tories have lost a quarter of their council seats which were being voted on. That is pretty disastrous. The media however are reporting that this is not a terrible enough performance to see Johnson gone. I'm not so sure.
Combine these results with the Sue Gray report, potentially more fines and a bad showing in a by-election or two and I'm still hopeful we'll see him out of office in the not too distant future.
Whilst Labour did well in London, Wales and to a degree Scotland their results in the rest of England are extremely poor in the face of the loss of Tory support. The Lib Dems, Greens and Independents did much better capitalising on Tory woes.
It shows Labour still have a lot of work to do to regain the trust and support of people in England outside the metropolitan areas esp the capital.
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''Sinn Fein is on course to become the largest party in Northern Ireland for the first time as its main unionist rival pays the price for political divisions over Brexit.
The Democratic Unionist Party lost support to both the hardline Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) and the cross-community Alliance Party in an election overshadowed by the future of the Northern Ireland protocol.
If confirmed, the assembly results mean that Sinn Fein will be able to nominate Michelle O’Neill, its leader, as the first Republican first minister since the power-sharing executive was formed in 1998. The DUP is expected to come second in the poll with Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the party’s leader, in line to become deputy first minister.''
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/northern-ireland-elections-sinn-fein-on-course-for-historic-win-km8cx308l
I'll bet the DUP wasn't thinking of this when they hooked up with johnson.
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To think Sinn Fein would ever be the biggest party in NI. When this is how they were treated 30 years back.
https://youtu.be/w6UhXivPyw4
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Some news outlets are saying it was a classic mid term election with protest votes going away from their usual preferred Party.
Typically those votes, in the main, went to the Lib Dems.
Are those news outlets the rightwing press?
It's probably partly true but I think the key issue in this election wasn't partygate. If it was solely about partygate then it would have been a classic midterm.
I think the real issue is the cost of living. Unless the Tories get a grip on this, then I think the dissatisfaction will be lasting. The energy price rise in October is going to be central. If they can't do anything about horrendous bills going into the winter, then I think there will be a mood for change.
No RD, I saw two different news reports on different tv channels who reported similar information.
Branton Red also backs it up a couple of posts away from here.
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The Tories have lost a quarter of their council seats which were being voted on. That is pretty disastrous. The media however are reporting that this is not a terrible enough performance to see Johnson gone. I'm not so sure.
Combine these results with the Sue Gray report, potentially more fines and a bad showing in a by-election or two and I'm still hopeful we'll see him out of office in the not too distant future.
Whilst Labour did well in London, Wales and to a degree Scotland their results in the rest of England are extremely poor in the face of the loss of Tory support. The Lib Dems, Greens and Independents did much better capitalising on Tory woes.
It shows Labour still have a lot of work to do to regain the trust and support of people in England outside the metropolitan areas esp the capital.
Fully agreed Branton. Which should worry the right-whingers and Brexiteers on here.
For the Tories to stay in power they have to win a majority in the next GE. There are no parties who will form a coalition with them.
For Labour to form the next govenment without a majority they will have to govern with either/all Greens, Lib Dems, SNP. All of whom are pro-rejoing Europe (unlike Starmer) and all of which have far more left-wing policies than Starmer's Labour.
Thus a future coalition government will be far more radical and left-wing than a Starmer led Labour one. Happy days.
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The Tories have lost a quarter of their council seats which were being voted on. That is pretty disastrous. The media however are reporting that this is not a terrible enough performance to see Johnson gone. I'm not so sure.
Combine these results with the Sue Gray report, potentially more fines and a bad showing in a by-election or two and I'm still hopeful we'll see him out of office in the not too distant future.
Whilst Labour did well in London, Wales and to a degree Scotland their results in the rest of England are extremely poor in the face of the loss of Tory support. The Lib Dems, Greens and Independents did much better capitalising on Tory woes.
It shows Labour still have a lot of work to do to regain the trust and support of people in England outside the metropolitan areas esp the capital.
Fully agreed Branton. Which should worry the right-whingers and Brexiteers on here.
For the Tories to stay in power they have to win a majority in the next GE. There are no parties who will form a coalition with them.
For Labour to form the next govenment without a majority they will have to govern with either/all Greens, Lib Dems, SNP. All of whom are pro-rejoing Europe (unlike Starmer) and all of which have far more left-wing policies than Starmer's Labour.
Thus a future coalition government will be far more radical and left-wing than a Starmer led Labour one. Happy days.
Wilts, who would be the PM in such a three or four Party coalition if Starmer led the Labour Party into the election.
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The Tories have lost a quarter of their council seats which were being voted on. That is pretty disastrous. The media however are reporting that this is not a terrible enough performance to see Johnson gone. I'm not so sure.
Combine these results with the Sue Gray report, potentially more fines and a bad showing in a by-election or two and I'm still hopeful we'll see him out of office in the not too distant future.
Whilst Labour did well in London, Wales and to a degree Scotland their results in the rest of England are extremely poor in the face of the loss of Tory support. The Lib Dems, Greens and Independents did much better capitalising on Tory woes.
It shows Labour still have a lot of work to do to regain the trust and support of people in England outside the metropolitan areas esp the capital.
Fully agreed Branton. Which should worry the right-whingers and Brexiteers on here.
For the Tories to stay in power they have to win a majority in the next GE. There are no parties who will form a coalition with them.
For Labour to form the next govenment without a majority they will have to govern with either/all Greens, Lib Dems, SNP. All of whom are pro-rejoing Europe (unlike Starmer) and all of which have far more left-wing policies than Starmer's Labour.
Thus a future coalition government will be far more radical and left-wing than a Starmer led Labour one. Happy days.
Wilts, who would be the PM in such a three or four Party coalition if Starmer led the Labour Party into the election.
Whoever led the party with the largest number of seats. So almost certainly Starmer (or whoever is the leader of the LP at that time).
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The Reform Party will stand in the next election and could cause a Brexit moment and an alliance with the Tories, that would be fun.
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The Reform Party will stand in the next election and could cause a Brexit moment and an alliance with the Tories, that would be fun.
I'm sure the mainstream parties are shutting themselves at the thought.
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
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I think a hung Parliament us a very likely outcome next time round.
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To achieve that (or better) Labour need to regain votes in non-metropolitan England. They struggled to make any headway in such areas on Thursday in spite of Tory problems re the issues with Johnson.
To do this they will need to reject the Lib Dems rejoin the Single Market policy just unveiled (sorry Wilts) or this will give a perfect line of attack for the Tories playing on left-leaning Leave voters lack of trust in Labour and Stamer on Europe.
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
After what Johnson has done to them over the NI Protocol! There is more chance of him forming an alliance with Sinn Fein and they dont take their seats.
A lot can change in two years - but as things stand now I would say Labour forming a coalition with at least one pro-rejoin EU party is the most likely outcome.
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To achieve that (or better) Labour need to regain votes in non-metropolitan England. They struggled to make any headway in such areas on Thursday in spite of Tory problems re the issues with Johnson.
To do this they will need to reject the Lib Dems rejoin the Single Market policy just unveiled (sorry Wilts) or this will give a perfect line of attack for the Tories playing on left-leaning Leave voters lack of trust in Labour and Stamer on Europe.
No - but the Lib Dems did. Its the voters that have rejected the Tories because they are seen as incompetent. There aren't many left-leaning votors in Somerset, Montgomeryshire or Cumbria to fall back on.
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
After what Johnson has done to them over the NI Protocol! There is more chance of him forming an alliance with Sinn Fein and they dont take their seats.
A lot can change in two years - but as things stand now I would say Labour forming a coalition with at least one pro-rejoin EU party is the most likely outcome.
Would people who voted for Brexit vote for Labour if they knew that wilts.
What do you reckon.
It potentially rules out half of the country voting for them.
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Exactly Hound.
That's why Labour must reject any notion, in coalition or not, of rejoining the EU/Single Market to have any chance of getting the votes to be in power.
Failure to do so would be akin to their disastrous 2019 Europe policy.
Here's hoping Starmer/the people at Labour HQ recognise this and don't let their ideological love of Europe overpower sensible, logical reasoning of democratic reality.
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
After what Johnson has done to them over the NI Protocol! There is more chance of him forming an alliance with Sinn Fein and they dont take their seats.
A lot can change in two years - but as things stand now I would say Labour forming a coalition with at least one pro-rejoin EU party is the most likely outcome.
Would people who voted for Brexit vote for Labour if they knew that wilts.
What do you reckon.
It potentially rules out half of the country voting for them.
Not really. There are very few seats where the Lib Dems fight Labour - so a Lib Dem resurgence will take seats off the Tories. The best chance of Labour not having to form a coalition is for Labour to win an outright majority - which as you say looks very unlikley at this moment.
So all those people not wanting a Labour majority - be very careful what you wish for.
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This is a useful account and poll to follow - shows which party people think is best on particular policy areas.
Its difficult to win an election when people think you are incompetent/not delivering:
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1522516583909933056
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
After what Johnson has done to them over the NI Protocol! There is more chance of him forming an alliance with Sinn Fein and they dont take their seats.
A lot can change in two years - but as things stand now I would say Labour forming a coalition with at least one pro-rejoin EU party is the most likely outcome.
Would people who voted for Brexit vote for Labour if they knew that wilts.
What do you reckon.
It potentially rules out half of the country voting for them.
Not really. There are very few seats where the Lib Dems fight Labour - so a Lib Dem resurgence will take seats off the Tories. The best chance of Labour not having to form a coalition is for Labour to win an outright majority - which as you say looks very unlikley at this moment.
So all those people not wanting a Labour majority - be very careful what you wish for.
I agree with you about the Lib Dems not fighting Labour in a lot of areas but my earlier question was more along the lines of would Brexiteers vote for Labour if they thought Starmer would be in favour of rejoining the EU.
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
After what Johnson has done to them over the NI Protocol! There is more chance of him forming an alliance with Sinn Fein and they dont take their seats.
A lot can change in two years - but as things stand now I would say Labour forming a coalition with at least one pro-rejoin EU party is the most likely outcome.
Would people who voted for Brexit vote for Labour if they knew that wilts.
What do you reckon.
It potentially rules out half of the country voting for them.
Not really. There are very few seats where the Lib Dems fight Labour - so a Lib Dem resurgence will take seats off the Tories. The best chance of Labour not having to form a coalition is for Labour to win an outright majority - which as you say looks very unlikley at this moment.
So all those people not wanting a Labour majority - be very careful what you wish for.
I agree with you about the Lib Dems not fighting Labour in a lot of areas but my earlier question was more along the lines of would Brexiteers vote for Labour if they thought Starmer would be in favour of rejoining the EU.
I am afraid you will need to ask those Brexiteers who vote Labour that question hound. I thought the vast majority of Brexiteers voted Tory anyway - and you can see from Thursdays results how well they are doing. And Starmer has always said he is not in favour of rejoining the EU.
If the Tories loose 40 seats they loose their majority. They will easily do that in the metropolitan areas, south/south west, Cumbria, Wales and Scotland based on those results. Can they take more seats away from Labour in Brexit areas to make up for that? Again, not on those results.
Unless Labour win an outright majority they will be in coalition with a pro-rejoin EU party. The more seats they need to make up that coalition the more pro-EU parties will be involved.
The best way for Brexiteer Labour voters to stop this is for them to vote Labour into power and not need a coalition - thats just counting.
If people decide they want to vote against Labour to stop them rejoining the EU - the more likely they are to cause that. That's how I see the numbers.
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We desperately need to accept Brexit and forget about it.
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We desperately need to accept Brexit and forget about it.
As a Remainer, fed up of reading whines from some posters about what Brexit has or hasn’t done for us all, I made your suggestion on here a few months ago.
I was bombed from all sides with shite and told that I shouldn’t be suggesting anything as outrageous as that.
It is very unlikely that we will be going back on the vote so we have to crack on and make the best of what we have.
Moaning won’t make much, if any, difference.
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People need to be cautious about extrapolating from local elections to a future GE 2 years down the line.
Turnout is lower in the local elections, and some Tories have stayed at home to knee Bozo in the goolies for his constant unreliability.
London does not represent the UK as a whole, and a high proportion of these local results were in the London area.
How many of the stay at homes are back in at a GE is important, as is whether CoCo has left the Big Top by then.
As for Starmer, his obsession with a pro-unionist position is directly against the direction of travel in Scotland and NI. Very difficult to see a pathway to a majority for him with the profile and policies on display at present.
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Wilts there's the DUP but otherwise I take your point.
2 of the last 4 GE's have resulted in hung parliaments and given current polling combined with Tory gerrymandering a 3rd in 5 is not out of the question.
After what Johnson has done to them over the NI Protocol! There is more chance of him forming an alliance with Sinn Fein and they dont take their seats.
A lot can change in two years - but as things stand now I would say Labour forming a coalition with at least one pro-rejoin EU party is the most likely outcome.
Would people who voted for Brexit vote for Labour if they knew that wilts.
What do you reckon.
It potentially rules out half of the country voting for them.
Not really. There are very few seats where the Lib Dems fight Labour - so a Lib Dem resurgence will take seats off the Tories. The best chance of Labour not having to form a coalition is for Labour to win an outright majority - which as you say looks very unlikley at this moment.
So all those people not wanting a Labour majority - be very careful what you wish for.
I agree with you about the Lib Dems not fighting Labour in a lot of areas but my earlier question was more along the lines of would Brexiteers vote for Labour if they thought Starmer would be in favour of rejoining the EU.
I am afraid you will need to ask those Brexiteers who vote Labour that question hound. I thought the vast majority of Brexiteers voted Tory anyway - and you can see from Thursdays results how well they are doing. And Starmer has always said he is not in favour of rejoining the EU.
If the Tories loose 40 seats they loose their majority. They will easily do that in the metropolitan areas, south/south west, Cumbria, Wales and Scotland based on those results. Can they take more seats away from Labour in Brexit areas to make up for that? Again, not on those results.
Unless Labour win an outright majority they will be in coalition with a pro-rejoin EU party. The more seats they need to make up that coalition the more pro-EU parties will be involved.
The best way for Brexiteer Labour voters to stop this is for them to vote Labour into power and not need a coalition - thats just counting.
If people decide they want to vote against Labour to stop them rejoining the EU - the more likely they are to cause that. That's how I see the numbers.
I didn’t know that the majority of Brexit voters were Tory voters wilts.
Are there any stats to back that up?
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Yes hound, loads on the internet, here are two sites:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/518474/eu-referendum-voting-intention-by-political-affiliation/
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-brexit/
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Yes hound, loads on the internet, here are two sites:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/518474/eu-referendum-voting-intention-by-political-affiliation/
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-brexit/
Cheers wilts.
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So according to the data from the HOC library site. BBC data was used to create a best estimate for how all the 650 constituencies would have voted, it does not make good reading for a prospective Labour party hoping to become the next government.
If the Labour leadership (who no doubt will have the analysed the same data) don't take this into account at the next General election what do they think will be the outcome?
Who did they say had passed on this new "info" to the police to investigate Starmer?
I'm sensing Labour would not be too displeased to be able to quietly "push aside" the current leader, the trouble for them will then be, Who do they finally get to lead them into oblivion?
Not a leader in sight.
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If Starmer was to depart, I don't think it would be a disaster if...
Lisa Nandy took over.
I think she is a much better communicator and I think she has the common touch.
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DD,
"Not a leader in sight".....true, because the shadow cabinet is full of people chosen because they back Keith, not because they are the best people for the job.
It really depends upon what you think a leader should do.
If you have a strong policy offer, then promoting that alternative position is the main focus.
Once the policies are agreed, use the best comms to develop public understanding of those policies.
Starmer has neither a strong policy position, nor any clear personality as a politician.
His whole approach is to shelter as a "Not Boris" candidate, hoping to return to the neo liberal past.
It is clear that his New Labour tribute band is failing to connect with those in the red wall who abandoned Labour because of the failure of neo liberal politics to deliver a better quality of life.
You can see it in the stance taken towards public ownership, which is very popular for core utilities.
With the cost of living crisis, anyone taking energy back in house would gain votes in numbers.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that fuel poverty is going to be the driver of political discussion going towards the next GE.
Keith thinks a one off windfall tax will suffice, leaving the failing industry unchanged.
Presumably to be followed by another windfall tax in October, then another after that!
Always leaning towards treating symptoms, never resolving the cause...that is Keith!
Meanwhile the disconnect with voters gets wider every election.
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Err. This is only Starmer's second election as leader. Labour performed significantly better than in the last four nationwide polls under Corbyn. How far must HE have been disconnected from the Electorate?
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Apples and Oranges, BST.
Corbyn was under intense media attack for the pre election period from the Tory supporting press.
Public perception is distorted by this coverage, to the detriment of the policy consideration.
You know this very well, so please do not try to divert from the point.
Starmer has had by-elections to demonstrate his standing against the worst government in recent history, without making any significant impact.
Even the extreme centre must be concerned over the lack of traction Labour has with voters in the Red Wall. A strategy of relying upon further mis-steps by Bozo, and some buyers regret, is just not going to cut it.
Admit it Lad, then face the problem squarely!
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Given the general public anger around Johnson's lockdown behaviour re 'partygate' this election was an open goal for Labour.
In England (except London) this open goal was missed.
Starmer and Labour are not making enough ground in non-metropolitan England to win the next GE (when either the Tories will have a new leader or some of the anger at Johnson will have abated) outright.
Quite simply they've lost the trust of Brexit-supporting/sympathetic traditional Labour voters such as myself.
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You do realise all that really matters for a political leader today is how do they come across in the media.
Starmer is nowhere near good enough.
Unless they can charm the public on Good morning Britain or BBC Breakfast, you can forget it.
That's what matters most.
That's the lesson of Blair, that's the lesson of Johnson. In a way it's also the lesson of Trump, while he isn't charming he has charisma.
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Given the general public anger around Johnson's lockdown behaviour re 'partygate' this election was an open goal for Labour.
In England (except London) this open goal was missed.
Starmer and Labour are not making enough ground in non-metropolitan England to win the next GE (when either the Tories will have a new leader or some of the anger at Johnson will have abated) outright.
Quite simply they've lost the trust of Brexit-supporting/sympathetic traditional Labour voters such as myself.
The last paragraph sum's it up precisely, Labour are saddled with a leader that all former Labour "red wall voters" remember tried single-handedly to row back on the Brexit referendum vote in a manner that most found totally undemocratic, i would imagine they will not forget this come the next general election.
The guy really is a dead man walking. The government will only push the matter until its overtaken in the MSM by some other cock and bull story, while ever he's in charge they know that a good portion of the Labour red wall voters cannot vote for him or his policies.
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Given the general public anger around Johnson's lockdown behaviour re 'partygate' this election was an open goal for Labour.
In England (except London) this open goal was missed.
Starmer and Labour are not making enough ground in non-metropolitan England to win the next GE (when either the Tories will have a new leader or some of the anger at Johnson will have abated) outright.
Quite simply they've lost the trust of Brexit-supporting/sympathetic traditional Labour voters such as myself.
The last paragraph sum's it up precisely, Labour are saddled with a leader that all former Labour "red wall voters" remember tried single-handedly to row back on the Brexit referendum vote in a manner that most found totally undemocratic, i would imagine they will not forget this come the next general election.
The guy really is a dead man walking. The government will only push the matter until its overtaken in the MSM by some other cock and bull story, while ever he's in charge they know that a good portion of the Labour red wall voters cannot vote for him or his policies.
Danumdon your first paragraph sums where I and most of my family plus many work colleagues are precisely. (The majority of whom live in the Don Valley seat that switched red to blue for the first time in a Century - typical 'Red Wall').
I don't trust Starmer and I'm struggling to trust Labour again - the election of him as leader, after his behaviour in the 17-19 parliament and the 2nd referendum policy he was a key instigator of, simply sickened me. It showed up what Labour thought of me, my opinions, the electorate as a whole and our democracy.
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During the lock down there were numerous reports in the media about mass gatherings at Raves in parks and warehouses etc.
Where was the media and mass disgust at the flaunting of the law being broken then?
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Albie.
Oh no! I'd forgotten that Corbyn was under pressure from the Press. Who'd have thought that would ever happen to a Labour leader.
I bet Starmer's chuffed that he hasn't had to deal with a hostile press chucking shit at him in an election campaign, eh?
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If Starmer does hang on to the LP leadership for the next GE it will be interesting to see whether albie or bst are right in their assessment of his abilities.
I remember bst saying that Corbyn would lead Labour to a win but since then, and very recently, has denounced him as incompetent.
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Starmer certainly needs to get a lot better at dealing with a hostile press/media chucking difficult questions at him - because he will get a lot more + they will be a lot more difficult the closer to a GE we are, especially if Labour look like winning it.
Labour are ahead in the polls.
The parties that had the most gains in Thursday's elections were all pro-rejoin EU.
The Tories are behind on polling in every competence area - and we have just hit a cost of living crises that looks like leading to a recession they have no idea how to deal with.
Yet people think Labour should change their policies to attract Brexiteer voters who are never going to vote for them - good look on that one.
If Starmer resigns (and I think he will if he is fined) the contest for next leader will be between Wes Streeting and Lisa Nandy, both very strong communicators and very strong on community development - which is where I think Labour need to lead on.
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By the next election the boundaries commission will have changed a number of constituencies in favour of the Tory Party especially in the South East.
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Albie.
Oh no! I'd forgotten that Corbyn was under pressure from the Press. Who'd have thought that would ever happen to a Labour leader.
I bet Starmer's chuffed that he hasn't had to deal with a hostile press chucking shit at him in an election campaign, eh?
BST,
Starmer has not had any significant pressure from the press until the last week, and that is only mainly a distraction tactic to protect Johnson.
There is absolutely no comparison to the treatment Corbyn received, both from the press and the extreme centre of the Labour Party. We know that many in the Labour establishment sought to undermine Corbyn on a daily basis.
The point is that Labour have not made progress under Starmer to make a GE campaign likely to deliver a majority. Tories can of course continue to lose voters by sticking with Johnson, but that is not translating into Tory voters choosing Labour instead.
Given that the pitch is to Tory prejudices, as a strategy it is clearly not working.
So what next?
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Albie
If Starmer goes who would you want to replace him?
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Albie.
Oh no! I'd forgotten that Corbyn was under pressure from the Press. Who'd have thought that would ever happen to a Labour leader.
I bet Starmer's chuffed that he hasn't had to deal with a hostile press chucking shit at him in an election campaign, eh?
BST,
Starmer has not had any significant pressure from the press until the last week, and that is only mainly a distraction tactic to protect Johnson.
There is absolutely no comparison to the treatment Corbyn received, both from the press and the extreme centre of the Labour Party. We know that many in the Labour establishment sought to undermine Corbyn on a daily basis.
The point is that Labour have not made progress under Starmer to make a GE campaign likely to deliver a majority. Tories can of course continue to lose voters by sticking with Johnson, but that is not translating into Tory voters choosing Labour instead.
Given that the pitch is to Tory prejudices, as a strategy it is clearly not working.
So what next?
Albie.
I take it the Left of the Labour party has been all shoulders to the wheel of the Starmer bus then? No dissenting voices at all?
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the ''extreme centre'' that's a new one!
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Albie
If Starmer goes who would you want to replace him?
I am a Democratic Socialist, so I would prefer a Socialist standing on a program of fundamental reform.
None of the Shadow Cabinet are Socialists, IMHO....they have been selected for that very reason.
The extreme centre is a well known concept on the left in politics, Syd.
It has been around as a description for some time, but was boosted by the book of the same name.
Here is an explanation:
https://www.counterfire.org/articles/book-reviews/17775-the-extreme-centre-a-warning
BST,
The left would hardly put shoulders to the wheel for a leader who has expelled members for flimsy excuses, and made association with certain groups a retrospective offence.
This is one reason why he is being taken to court.
Another is the data breach in which members details were "lost" to a hack attack. This includes the details of former members which was unlawfully retained by Labour.
Expect heavy fines for breach of GDPR regulations.
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I see Albie,
In my lifetime the British public have never voted for a government more left wing than Tony Blairs. I really can't see them embracing anything as leftwing as you would like.
In fact these days I have grave doubts they will ever vote for anything left wing again.